Forums / Community / Halo Insider

This is setting up for failure without open beta

OP MintyTwister

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. ...
  5. 3
I honestly don't understand the devs' thought process at this point. I keep seeing more and more complaints on issues, baseless claims, and updates bringing out MORE issues than before, probably because you're not getting proper info from good users. There's multiple problems arising and will soon arise if you don't do an open Beta.

Being an insider program in the first place on PC is honestly a disaster. There's so many PCs with so many different builds and issues that can arise and you are not going to get them with only a few thousand people total getting in, 80%-90% of which being quiet players. There's definitely a lot of issues on release day that will arise because there was no open Beta and not enough people showing issues with the game.

Your servers are also going to go down. You don't understand yet how many people will play it, DICE/EA made this mistake and they decided to do open Betas to predict what's coming and as a result their games became more stable on release. It's not going to be smart to just rely on pre-orders and insider amounts, because there's a good number of people, usually the majority I met that say they want to wait to see if the game bombs because they don't know if it'll run like crap on release. It's factual games tend to have better releases from open Betas. And I shouldn't need to bring up how bad MCC was when it released on Xbox and how it was unplayable online. You're not going to know what hits you without an open way to test. And you can't predict how big it will be because it's Halo on PC. That's a huge nearly historical moment comming up, you don't know how hard you're gonna get tanked on day 1 without an open way to test the waters.

Also with open beta you get better chances of players that are really passionate and good at bug hunting and helping find fixes for X and Y. You can't deny that right now it's pretty bad as a lot of current insiders just say "Idk.. mouse feels a little weird" and that's it. While a more invested player will test if it's the mouse, if it's delay, if it's acceleration, etc. But with this program being aggressively private you have an extremely tiny chance of these invested players.
Some were even people that were just use to games having mouse acceleration. You need a bigger program so that more good players can find issues. Insider is helping no one and not even yourselves.

This is at the end my opinion but I have firm belief on it. So far this has started to look pretty bleak and I'm not going to be surprised this game is overrun with bugs, crashes, BSODs, etc. on release day, and when that happens it will cause a huge dent in the player base you could have avoided by just being more open, which wouldn't even be risky.

PS: Please don't read this as hostile. I'm very excited for this and only want to be sure this game has a healthy future, and I hope this will in the end really help.
I honestly don't understand the devs' thought process at this point. I keep seeing more and more complaints on issues, baseless claims, and updates bringing out MORE issues than before, probably because you're not getting proper info from good users. There's multiple problems arising and will soon arise if you don't do an open Beta.

Being an insider program in the first place on PC is honestly a disaster. There's so many PCs with so many different builds and issues that can arise and you are not going to get them with only a few thousand people total getting in, 80%-90% of which being quiet players. There's definitely a lot of issues on release day that will arise because there was no open Beta and not enough people showing issues with the game.

Your servers are also going to go down. You don't understand yet how many people will play it, DICE/EA made this mistake and they decided to do open Betas to predict what's coming and as a result their games became more stable on release. It's not going to be smart to just rely on pre-orders and insider amounts, because there's a good number of people, usually the majority i meat say they want to wait to see if the game bombs because they don't know if it'll run like crap on release. It's factual games tend to have better releases from open Betas. And I shouldn't need to bring up how bad MCC was when it released on Xbox and how it was unplayable online. You're not going to know what hits you without an open way to test.

Also with open beta you get better chances of players that are really passionate bug hunting and helping find fixes for X and Y. You can't deny that right now it's pretty bad as a lot of current insiders just say "Idk.. mouse feels a little weird" and that's it. While a more invested player will test if it's the mouse, if it's delay, if it's acceleration, etc.
Some were even people that were just use to games having mouse acceleration. You need a bigger program so that more good players can find issues. Insider is helping no one and not even yourselves.

This is at the end my opinion but I have firm belief on it. So far this has started to look pretty bleak and I'm not going to be surprised this game is overrun with bugs, crashes, BSODs, etc. on release day, and when that happens it will cause a huge dent in the player base you could have avoided by just being more open, which wouldn't even be risky.
Very understandable. Considering the original MCC release back on the Xbox One, it's very worrysome that we aren't getting an accurate ammount of player invitations/stress test maintenance there should be. Or even if they are stress testing, we still deserve the number of current people playing the game. 50K invites doesn't mean 50K active players, not only that, people play at different intervals of time.
Wow, someone that understands how strange/poorly handled this program is and worried about it, hit it out of the park.
Floop1 wrote:
I honestly don't understand the devs' thought process at this point. I keep seeing more and more complaints on issues, baseless claims, and updates bringing out MORE issues than before, probably because you're not getting proper info from good users. There's multiple problems arising and will soon arise if you don't do an open Beta.

Being an insider program in the first place on PC is honestly a disaster. There's so many PCs with so many different builds and issues that can arise and you are not going to get them with only a few thousand people total getting in, 80%-90% of which being quiet players. There's definitely a lot of issues on release day that will arise because there was no open Beta and not enough people showing issues with the game.

Your servers are also going to go down. You don't understand yet how many people will play it, DICE/EA made this mistake and they decided to do open Betas to predict what's coming and as a result their games became more stable on release. It's not going to be smart to just rely on pre-orders and insider amounts, because there's a good number of people, usually the majority i meat say they want to wait to see if the game bombs because they don't know if it'll run like crap on release. It's factual games tend to have better releases from open Betas. And I shouldn't need to bring up how bad MCC was when it released on Xbox and how it was unplayable online. You're not going to know what hits you without an open way to test.

Also with open beta you get better chances of players that are really passionate bug hunting and helping find fixes for X and Y. You can't deny that right now it's pretty bad as a lot of current insiders just say "Idk.. mouse feels a little weird" and that's it. While a more invested player will test if it's the mouse, if it's delay, if it's acceleration, etc.
Some were even people that were just use to games having mouse acceleration. You need a bigger program so that more good players can find issues. Insider is helping no one and not even yourselves.

This is at the end my opinion but I have firm belief on it. So far this has started to look pretty bleak and I'm not going to be surprised this game is overrun with bugs, crashes, BSODs, etc. on release day, and when that happens it will cause a huge dent in the player base you could have avoided by just being more open, which wouldn't even be risky.
Very understandable. Considering the original MCC release back on the Xbox One, it's very worrysome that we aren't getting an accurate ammount of player invitations/stress test maintenance there should be. Or even if they are stress testing, we still deserve the number of current people playing the game. 50K invites doesn't mean 50K active players, not only that, people play at different intervals of time.
MCC on Xbone was such a disaster and it annihilated half the player base, we need to avoid that happening a 2nd time. Infact a great example is Sea of Thieves, they did an identical Insider Program and the game FLOPPED on release because of the exact issues I said above 1:1. 343 really needs to do something about this before it's too late.
Have they said that they aren't doing an open beta? I'm sure they have learned from their mistake and will do one.
Just because you weren't invited to the flight doesn't mean that it needs to be an open beta.
Floop1 wrote:
Considering the original MCC release back on the Xbox One, it's very worrysome that we aren't getting an accurate ammount of player invitations/stress test maintenance there should be. Or even if they are stress testing, we still deserve the number of current people playing the game. 50K invites doesn't mean 50K active players, not only that, people play at different intervals of time.
50K may not be playing, but there's a very good chance that the number could still be very high and I'd bet that it's way more than what the OP suggested which was only a few thousand invites total.
wojakrulez wrote:
Just because you weren't invited to the flight doesn't mean that it needs to be an open beta.
thats not why he wants an open beta
wojakrulez wrote:
Just because you weren't invited to the flight doesn't mean that it needs to be an open beta.
That is really uncalled for dude. He has every right to be concerned about the servers, especially considering previous Halo releases being a crapshow server wise on launches. If the servers do end up failing on Halo Reach's release, then the playerbase will drop a lot and the game will get slammed. Who knows how long it'll take for 343 to fix it, like for the original MCC on Xbox One.

It's either a LOT more people get invited, or they do an open beta. He isn't upset just cuz he didn't get invited...
I really don't understand the whole flight system anyway. No other developer I know uses such a system, they just roll with alpha, closed beta, then open beta. It works perfectly well for PC games.

What really irks me is that the developers open locked support and known issues lists for insiders only, which means people like me who aren't on the flight are unable to provide criticism based on what we are seeing. Given that much these days ends up on Twitch or YouTube, even those who aren't in the flights are able to watch people play and criticise/evaluate visually.

Sure, I can and have been posting critical thoughts on the forums, but it seems like the developers are not paying any attention to the forums, which is ridiculous as there are some fantastic threads chock full of valid concerns and feedback there. By listening exclusively to insiders on the flight, they miss amazing feedback from the greater community who are watching these same flights on VoD.
And I agree with the OP that there needs to be a stress test or two with ALL insiders invited, that lasts a day or so.
They have done stress tests through the Insider Program before so I don't see why they wouldn't do it again. If it's necessary.

Also, we don't even have a release date yet so there might be plenty of time for a stress test. Open beta or through the Insider Program.
Floop1 wrote:
wojakrulez wrote:
Just because you weren't invited to the flight doesn't mean that it needs to be an open beta.
That is really uncalled for dude. He has every right to be concerned about the servers, especially considering previous Halo releases being a crapshow server wise on launches. If the servers do end up failing on Halo Reach's release, then the playerbase will drop a lot and the game will get slammed. Who knows how long it'll take for 343 to fix it, like for the original MCC on Xbox One.

It's either a LOT more people get invited, or they do an open beta. He isn't upset just cuz he didn't get invited...
thank you for writing the answer i was too lazy to write
OscHarD wrote:
They have done stress tests through the Insider Program before so I don't see why they wouldn't do it again. If it's necessary.

Also, we don't even have a release date yet so there might be plenty of time for a stress test. Open beta or through the Insider Program.
i feel like its either coming out before the holidays or not until 3 months into 2020 because the game looks complete but i also feel like theres still so much work to be done
What really irks me is that the developers open locked support and known issues lists for insiders only, which means people like me who aren't on the flight are unable to provide criticism based on what we are seeing. Given that much these days ends up on Twitch or YouTube, even those who aren't in the flights are able to watch people play and criticise/evaluate visually.
While you personally might be able to provide feedback, the general masses would not be able to provide quality feedback through just watching streams or VODs. Keeping it exclusive to those participating in the flight makes since because those individuals are the ones actually playing in the flight and can provide more feedback than "I saw this thing that was wrong, no I can't specify the settings or the specs of the computer but I saw something that was wrong!"

On the subject of the OP's topic, just because the flight system is ongoing right now does not mean an open beta will not happen at some point in the future. 343 has shown previously that they are more than happy to invite players for server stress tests and the like, would not be surprised if there was a limited open beta at some point.
The flighting process was set up by 343 to assist them in working through and taking features and bugs in a specific way. It's a common theme across Microsoft, they run Windows Insider and Xbox Insider playltforms in the same way.

If you want to learn more about that process you can read up on the development blog here which outlines how it works: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/halo-insider-mcc-flighting-update

There are times when getting lots of people in and testing may be beneficial, but for the most part smaller more localised testing actually works better. Testing key features and components rather than trying to work on everything at once. As had been said just because one hasn't happened doesn't mean it won't, but it doesn't necessarily need to either.

I would echo Breezy's comments about external players submitting bugs. That really should be left to those actually participating as you would not be able to accurately follow up on those reports. You are still welcome to provide general feedback in the MCC PC forums.
What exactly makes you think they won't be doing an Open Beta in the future?

I believe this is the Closed Beta and the reason why it's so limited is because they want only the really interested players to play it for now, because most of the problems can be found by these small amount of players.

The same thing happened with Age of Empires Insider. Now they are about to launch a great Definitive Edition for Age 2.
Kibbe wrote:
What exactly makes you think they won't be doing an Open Beta in the future?

I believe this is the Closed Beta and the reason why it's so limited is because they want only the really interested players to play it for now, because most of the problems can be found by these small amount of players.

The same thing happened with Age of Empires Insider. Now they are about to launch a great Definitive Edition for Age 2.
Saying the invites are only for really interested players undermines the ammount that have not been invited. This may sound a little eliteist of me but hear me out. I don't like how there is a "I haven't played a halo game before" in the insider sign up. I see 343 giving away invites to people that actually ticked this box just to get feedback from non-halo players. I understand why they're doing this, but absolute newcomers don't know what to expect. They may think a mechanic like the Energy Sword lunge as a flaw/bug instead of a feature that has balanced halo since the beginning. New players wouldn't be able to quickly identify bugs like how players who have played halo for years in the past will.

This may sound incredibly eliteist of me, I am very sorry if it does but this is just my opinion.
Floop1 wrote:
Kibbe wrote:
What exactly makes you think they won't be doing an Open Beta in the future?

I believe this is the Closed Beta and the reason why it's so limited is because they want only the really interested players to play it for now, because most of the problems can be found by these small amount of players.

The same thing happened with Age of Empires Insider. Now they are about to launch a great Definitive Edition for Age 2.
Saying the invites are only for really interested players undermines the ammount that have not been invited. This may sound a little eliteist of me but hear me out. I don't like how there is a "I haven't played a halo game before" in the insider sign up. I see 343 giving away invites to people that actually ticked this box just to get feedback from non-halo players. I understand why they're doing this, but absolute newcomers don't know what to expect. They may think a mechanic like the Energy Sword lunge as a flaw/bug instead of a feature that has balanced halo since the beginning. New players wouldn't be able to quickly identify bugs like how players who have played halo for years in the past will.

This may sound incredibly eliteist of me, I am very sorry if it does but this is just my opinion.
I don't think it undermines the people that haven't been invited. It just means that a lot of people are really interested in playing, but not everybody got in, nothing wrong with that. The Insider program itself is a barrier in order to try and only get players who are willing to play and test the game.

Also, newer players doesn't mean they don't know the game. I personally only played Halo on console for a maximum of 50 hours in my life and never competitively, but understand a lot of mechanics and know what's a bug or not. Granted I grew up watching tournaments once in a while, but newer players have experience in other games as well. If the player is interested enough to sign up, join the community, download the game and test it, he probably knows how to play a video game and understand how mechanics work from past experience. You are not going to see complete noobs in FPS games trying to join the Halo Flight.
This thread's replies is so far a perfect example on one of my points I made, thank you all.

Some of the responses were very, very gate keeping to the extreme just because they were insiders, but provided ZERO WHATSOEVER REASONS why my points were invalid, and no one pointed out how Halo Insider is helping the game. This is the most prime examples I needed on how an insider program that just gives keys to entirely random people won't work because you get a good chance majority will be the wrong kind of crowd getting Insider Program. Majority of them also get this (as this thread shows) elitist attitude that gate keeps people from sharing opinions and concerns about the game they love, this is why insider is bad, because of (Users you can see above). Time to burst some bubbles, but you weren't picked because you were special, you were picked out of pure randomness. I have friends who got it and never once posted on this forum, and never before played Halo. That's proof enough you aren't this guardian angel of this game, you're just a test.

One even said it's for people who are interested yet he only has ever clocked 50 hours of Halo in general, need I go on?
And no, they haven't confirmed a Beta at all, most if not all games with Insiders don't end up doing Betas if they never announce it coming.

I say all this because it heavily supports my point on how majority of insiders can very well be people that won't help the final release of the game, just from the attitude of people in this thread alone, and how 0 of the insiders have actually *contributed to the topic*, I say my case has been rested. But Insider Programs could do well if you actually *did* pick your insiders properly(Players actually seeking to help a healthy release), but an Open Beta is still simply superior. But if you did handpick upstanding players, I would have probably not made this thread because I'd be less concerned.

While I would enjoy an insider program, it would have never changed my opinion as I detest insider programs, I was part of them before and still always hated them as the game always has major issues on release date because not enough word on issues get around properly. And not only that, I'd give it to my friend who played every Halo game while I only played a demo. I won't know what to look for, or say what's wrong, while my friend would, and I loved the Demo I played and only hope this series on PC ends up being amazing. Insider Program, especially off of random players, is doomed to fail. (See posts above).
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. ...
  5. 3