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2 Cents on Nautical Combat

OP Qwerty polopus

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And I don't use the terminology naval combat here specifically because in Halo that might be confused with space combat. I am in fact referring to that mystical final frontier for playable Halo environments - water. Which, by the way, has been considered before in development. If you've never seen the Halo: Reach prototypes video, I highly recommend you watch it (YouTube link here - boat footage begins at 0:18) - It clearly shows some playable UNSC u-boat looking craft along with specially designed oceanic physics. It illustrates the potential of such a vehicle, and I think it would be really cool to use. Imagine in campaign launching from a dedicated sea-based UNSC Battleship to assault some Covenant cruisers floating on the waters (they already look like sea predators!) and maybe you had to board them or w.e. In MP the incorporation of land, sea and sky vehicles could fit really well into the rock/paper/scissors formula Halo adheres to as well, especially with the greater emphasis on BTB. Would you be psyched for some boat action in Halo?

EDIT: Here is a link to the UNSC motorboat Halopedia article if you want to check out concept art.

EDIT2: For the lore folks, seems like there is actually quite a bit of fan conjecture on I guess what's called the UNSC Maritime Operations. The first bullet point under "Trivia" at the end of the article is really interesting in terms of a lot of the discussions that have been going on within this post.

EDIT3: A little on the esoteric side, but it looks like Mega Construx will be releasing the 'Warthog Rally' set which is a warthog that can be reconfigured into the alternative form of a boat. These sets are being released as a merch tease-up to the launch of Infinite. Is this a clue?
Some boat action would be cool. Especially like the demo you linked... with big waves to ride up and down.

I also liked the 'Global Battle' clip. I think multiplayer, particularly BTB, would benefit from feeling like you were part of a bigger fight. Ships crashing and random explosions / fire can happen randomly across the map (where actual combatants aren't of course).
Personally, no. I mean, if it's an aspect of BTB I could buy it, however, I think being on a boat or dingy would make you very vulnerable. Easy to get headshot, unless it bobs up and down a lot. Plus there's aerial vehicles. A fantastic counter to a nautical insertion.
Come to think of it, I haven't really read anything about nautical combat in the halo books(although I'm not completely through them all yet) or seen anything like that in the games, aside from the occasional driving through water in a warthog, or the scarabs climbing out of the depths.
I suppose halo 5 had those under water maps.
I think I am failing to see what nautical gameplay could add the the halo experience.
Any thoughts?
Boat fighting in Halo? For campaign, as pointless as this sounds lorewise, this would be really interesting and fun.
It would be really fun to have a new sandbox to play with, for campaign it would add a breath of fresh air for combat and sandbox, multiplayer for something like warzone minus the reqs would feel bigger and would be more fun trying to avoid a scorpion equivalent threat of a boat than worrying just about a scorpion, for forge it would add a whole new list of things to do and could lead to some battlefield style maps which is something I've always wanted to make but was limited with a small canvas and vehicles to work with
I'm not feeling it. How buoyant is Chief? I imagine there would be more sinking then swimming.
Yeah I'm down for water combat. Could be really fun if they make some cool vehicles and physics right.
And I don't use the terminology naval combat here specifically because in Halo that might be confused with space combat. I am in fact referring to that mystical final frontier for playable Halo environments - water. Which, by the way, has been considered before in development. If you've never seen the Halo: Reach prototypes video, I highly recommend you watch it (YouTube link here - boat footage begins at 0:18) - It clearly shows some playable UNSC u-boat looking craft along with specially designed oceanic physics. It illustrates the potential of such a vehicle, and I think it would be really cool to use. Imagine in campaign Covenant cruisers floating on the waters (they already look like sea predators!) and maybe you had to board them or w.e. In MP the incorporation of land, sea and sky vehicles could fit really well into the rock/paper/scissors formula Halo adheres to as well, especially with the greater emphasis on BTB. Would you be psyched for some boat action in Halo?
Eh. Lore wise it just doesn't make sense. Gameplay wise... eh too. It would totally change level design to accomodate large water areas.

Looking at that video though, holy damn I want that space combat and global war.
I'd be all for it. I think being able to fight on water might let Halo have a new type of fighting while still feeling very Halo. It depends on how the weapons and sandbox work - if we had pre-patch h5 BRs while cruising around in boats fighting each other, I don't think it would be too fun. But I'm sure 343 could pull it off the right way if they wanted to give it a try. It also presents opportunities for high risk/high reward types of map travel for larger scale games. I'd love that.
Personally I think nautical combat sounds like a lot of development work for not much payoff.

It wouldn't make a lot of sense for there to be vehicles that are exclusive to water, but an amphibious variant of the Warthog used for passing over deep bodies of water wouldn't be terrible. Anything that has a use in water should also be somewhat usable on land or in the air to make any sense at all.
I'm not feeling it. How buoyant is Chief? I imagine there would be more sinking then swimming.
Perhaps they could also design some underwater sections of maps, with a physics system similar to the zero-G rules. There's also some precedent for deep-sea operations etc in the lore. I mean Spartans wear fully vacuum-enabled pressure suits so it's no issue there.
Darwi wrote:
Some boat action would be cool. Especially like the demo you linked... with big waves to ride up and down.

I also liked the 'Global Battle' clip. I think multiplayer, particularly BTB, would benefit from feeling like you were part of a bigger fight. Ships crashing and random explosions / fire can happen randomly across the map (where actual combatants aren't of course).
Yeah, the whole 'Global Battles' concept is a whole different interesting topic that deserves it's own forum post tbh. It's one of those concepts that never actually made the cut but has influenced a lot of the games in various ways. Maybe with 343i's teased BTB revamp we may see this vision finally come to life. YouTuber Rejected Shotgun built a Halo: Reach mod called Extinction 2.0 which was inspired by the Global Battles concept, and his vision of what it might look like is just kind of fun to see.
And I don't use the terminology naval combat here specifically because in Halo that might be confused with space combat. I am in fact referring to that mystical final frontier for playable Halo environments - water. Which, by the way, has been considered before in development. If you've never seen the Halo: Reach prototypes video, I highly recommend you watch it (YouTube link here - boat footage begins at 0:18) - It clearly shows some playable UNSC u-boat looking craft along with specially designed oceanic physics. It illustrates the potential of such a vehicle, and I think it would be really cool to use. Imagine in campaign Covenant cruisers floating on the waters (they already look like sea predators!) and maybe you had to board them or w.e. In MP the incorporation of land, sea and sky vehicles could fit really well into the rock/paper/scissors formula Halo adheres to as well, especially with the greater emphasis on BTB. Would you be psyched for some boat action in Halo?
Eh. Lore wise it just doesn't make sense. Gameplay wise... eh too. It would totally change level design to accomodate large water areas.

Looking at that video though, holy damn I want that space combat and global war.
Funny thing is a lot of Halo maps (think Valhalla, Tempest) already use water as a containment mechanism trope so it may be a more natural incorporation than one might expect. It would definitely be more prevalent on larger map of course. And omg space combat like the original Battlefront where you could fly your men from one frigate to the other would be just insane.
Personally, no. I mean, if it's an aspect of BTB I could buy it, however, I think being on a boat or dingy would make you very vulnerable. Easy to get headshot, unless it bobs up and down a lot. Plus there's aerial vehicles. A fantastic counter to a nautical insertion.
Come to think of it, I haven't really read anything about nautical combat in the halo books(although I'm not completely through them all yet) or seen anything like that in the games, aside from the occasional driving through water in a warthog, or the scarabs climbing out of the depths.
I suppose halo 5 had those under water maps.
I think I am failing to see what nautical gameplay could add the the halo experience.
Any thoughts?
You're telling me you don't want to pilot a warthog of the waves?? haha. It's really just about adding balanced tactical options, broadening the scope of combat and therefore gameplay experience itself. It's not remaking the wheel in any major way, it's just a slight tweak on an old and tested formula, which is exactly why I think it could work. Plus we'd get some really awesome new sandbox items.

The cockpit of could be shielded from three side (think sort of like the Elephant) to protect the driver from sniper fire, or alternatively, the water physics would just be so rough that it may be practically impossible to pull off a headshot while the boat is in motion.

The health of the boat itself is another matter entirely. In HW vehicle combat is balanced by a rock/paper/scissors system - In general, ground vehicles are effective in combat against infantry, infantry are effective against aircraft, and aircraft are effective against vehicles. You could alternatively incorporate this motif into the air/ground/water model. Maybe the boat is incredibly fast, making it near impervious to artillery, but vulnerable to small arms fire when stationary. You get the picture.
And I don't use the terminology naval combat here specifically because in Halo that might be confused with space combat. I am in fact referring to that mystical final frontier for playable Halo environments - water. Which, by the way, has been considered before in development. If you've never seen the Halo: Reach prototypes video, I highly recommend you watch it (YouTube link here - boat footage begins at 0:18) - It clearly shows some playable UNSC u-boat looking craft along with specially designed oceanic physics. It illustrates the potential of such a vehicle, and I think it would be really cool to use. Imagine in campaign Covenant cruisers floating on the waters (they already look like sea predators!) and maybe you had to board them or w.e. In MP the incorporation of land, sea and sky vehicles could fit really well into the rock/paper/scissors formula Halo adheres to as well, especially with the greater emphasis on BTB. Would you be psyched for some boat action in Halo?
Eh. Lore wise it just doesn't make sense. Gameplay wise... eh too. It would totally change level design to accomodate large water areas.

Looking at that video though, holy damn I want that space combat and global war.
Funny thing is a lot of Halo maps (think Valhalla, Tempest) already use water as a containment mechanism trope so it may be a more natural incorporation than one might expect. It would definitely be more prevalent on larger map of course. And omg space combat like the original Battlefront where you could fly your men from one frigate to the other would be just insane.
Imagine a game somewhere in between Halo, Battlefront II (the original,) and Battlefield?

- Frigate Vs. Corvette in Space -
- Frigate Vs. Covenant Base -
- Corvette Vs. UNSC Base -

Drop in using ODST pods, spawn on your squad... call in orbital reinforcements, pelicans, scorpions....

I really hope 343 turns to some anthology games soon.
And I don't use the terminology naval combat here specifically because in Halo that might be confused with space combat. I am in fact referring to that mystical final frontier for playable Halo environments - water. Which, by the way, has been considered before in development. If you've never seen the Halo: Reach prototypes video, I highly recommend you watch it (YouTube link here - boat footage begins at 0:18) - It clearly shows some playable UNSC u-boat looking craft along with specially designed oceanic physics. It illustrates the potential of such a vehicle, and I think it would be really cool to use. Imagine in campaign Covenant cruisers floating on the waters (they already look like sea predators!) and maybe you had to board them or w.e. In MP the incorporation of land, sea and sky vehicles could fit really well into the rock/paper/scissors formula Halo adheres to as well, especially with the greater emphasis on BTB. Would you be psyched for some boat action in Halo?
Eh. Lore wise it just doesn't make sense. Gameplay wise... eh too. It would totally change level design to accomodate large water areas.

Looking at that video though, holy damn I want that space combat and global war.
Funny thing is a lot of Halo maps (think Valhalla, Tempest) already use water as a containment mechanism trope so it may be a more natural incorporation than one might expect. It would definitely be more prevalent on larger map of course. And omg space combat like the original Battlefront where you could fly your men from one frigate to the other would be just insane.
Imagine a game somewhere in between Halo, Battlefront II (the original,) and Battlefield?

- Frigate Vs. Corvette in Space -
- Frigate Vs. Covenant Base -
- Corvette Vs. UNSC Base -

Drop in using ODST pods, spawn on your squad... call in orbital reinforcements, pelicans, scorpions....

I really hope 343 turns to some anthology games soon.
Some of the gameplay from the original Battlefront games was actually quite good. The space battles where you could board and sabotage enemy ships from inside and bots that actually move around the map to capture spawn locations were pretty enjoyable. Its been a very long time since I played Battlefront, probably about 10+ years ago on an aging PS2.
And I don't use the terminology naval combat here specifically because in Halo that might be confused with space combat. I am in fact referring to that mystical final frontier for playable Halo environments - water. Which, by the way, has been considered before in development. If you've never seen the Halo: Reach prototypes video, I highly recommend you watch it (YouTube link here - boat footage begins at 0:18) - It clearly shows some playable UNSC u-boat looking craft along with specially designed oceanic physics. It illustrates the potential of such a vehicle, and I think it would be really cool to use. Imagine in campaign Covenant cruisers floating on the waters (they already look like sea predators!) and maybe you had to board them or w.e. In MP the incorporation of land, sea and sky vehicles could fit really well into the rock/paper/scissors formula Halo adheres to as well, especially with the greater emphasis on BTB. Would you be psyched for some boat action in Halo?
Eh. Lore wise it just doesn't make sense. Gameplay wise... eh too. It would totally change level design to accomodate large water areas.

Looking at that video though, holy damn I want that space combat and global war.
Funny thing is a lot of Halo maps (think Valhalla, Tempest) already use water as a containment mechanism trope so it may be a more natural incorporation than one might expect. It would definitely be more prevalent on larger map of course. And omg space combat like the original Battlefront where you could fly your men from one frigate to the other would be just insane.
Imagine a game somewhere in between Halo, Battlefront II (the original,) and Battlefield?

- Frigate Vs. Corvette in Space -
- Frigate Vs. Covenant Base -
- Corvette Vs. UNSC Base -

Drop in using ODST pods, spawn on your squad... call in orbital reinforcements, pelicans, scorpions....

I really hope 343 turns to some anthology games soon.
I would LOVE to see them run a beta for a 256 player Halo game, the same max count as Battlefield. But it would have to be on a space larger than any multiplayer map to date, potentially the size of Forge World altogether. I think your idea of some giant integrated battlefield is awesome, and one I've had as well. I'm not sure if you've ever played Section 8: Prejudice, but they did a good job of giving that feeling at just 32 players.
Irr7793 wrote:
And I don't use the terminology naval combat here specifically because in Halo that might be confused with space combat. I am in fact referring to that mystical final frontier for playable Halo environments - water. Which, by the way, has been considered before in development. If you've never seen the Halo: Reach prototypes video, I highly recommend you watch it (YouTube link here - boat footage begins at 0:18) - It clearly shows some playable UNSC u-boat looking craft along with specially designed oceanic physics. It illustrates the potential of such a vehicle, and I think it would be really cool to use. Imagine in campaign Covenant cruisers floating on the waters (they already look like sea predators!) and maybe you had to board them or w.e. In MP the incorporation of land, sea and sky vehicles could fit really well into the rock/paper/scissors formula Halo adheres to as well, especially with the greater emphasis on BTB. Would you be psyched for some boat action in Halo?
Eh. Lore wise it just doesn't make sense. Gameplay wise... eh too. It would totally change level design to accomodate large water areas.

Looking at that video though, holy damn I want that space combat and global war.
Funny thing is a lot of Halo maps (think Valhalla, Tempest) already use water as a containment mechanism trope so it may be a more natural incorporation than one might expect. It would definitely be more prevalent on larger map of course. And omg space combat like the original Battlefront where you could fly your men from one frigate to the other would be just insane.
Imagine a game somewhere in between Halo, Battlefront II (the original,) and Battlefield?

- Frigate Vs. Corvette in Space -
- Frigate Vs. Covenant Base -
- Corvette Vs. UNSC Base -

Drop in using ODST pods, spawn on your squad... call in orbital reinforcements, pelicans, scorpions....

I really hope 343 turns to some anthology games soon.
Some of the gameplay from the original Battlefront games was actually quite good. The space battles where you could board and sabotage enemy ships from inside and bots that actually move around the map to capture spawn locations were pretty enjoyable. Its been a very long time since I played Battlefront, probably about 10+ years ago on an aging PS2.
Dude some of those OG Battlefront play spaces are still unique to video games a decade and a half plus years later. Those space battles and boarding actions were legendary. At the very least I want to see someone forge a dope custom map/game.
Irr7793 wrote:
And I don't use the terminology naval combat here specifically because in Halo that might be confused with space combat. I am in fact referring to that mystical final frontier for playable Halo environments - water. Which, by the way, has been considered before in development. If you've never seen the Halo: Reach prototypes video, I highly recommend you watch it (YouTube link here - boat footage begins at 0:18) - It clearly shows some playable UNSC u-boat looking craft along with specially designed oceanic physics. It illustrates the potential of such a vehicle, and I think it would be really cool to use. Imagine in campaign Covenant cruisers floating on the waters (they already look like sea predators!) and maybe you had to board them or w.e. In MP the incorporation of land, sea and sky vehicles could fit really well into the rock/paper/scissors formula Halo adheres to as well, especially with the greater emphasis on BTB. Would you be psyched for some boat action in Halo?
Eh. Lore wise it just doesn't make sense. Gameplay wise... eh too. It would totally change level design to accomodate large water areas.

Looking at that video though, holy damn I want that space combat and global war.
Funny thing is a lot of Halo maps (think Valhalla, Tempest) already use water as a containment mechanism trope so it may be a more natural incorporation than one might expect. It would definitely be more prevalent on larger map of course. And omg space combat like the original Battlefront where you could fly your men from one frigate to the other would be just insane.
Imagine a game somewhere in between Halo, Battlefront II (the original,) and Battlefield?

- Frigate Vs. Corvette in Space -
- Frigate Vs. Covenant Base -
- Corvette Vs. UNSC Base -

Drop in using ODST pods, spawn on your squad... call in orbital reinforcements, pelicans, scorpions....

I really hope 343 turns to some anthology games soon.
Some of the gameplay from the original Battlefront games was actually quite good. The space battles where you could board and sabotage enemy ships from inside and bots that actually move around the map to capture spawn locations were pretty enjoyable. Its been a very long time since I played Battlefront, probably about 10+ years ago on an aging PS2.
Dude some of those OG Battlefront play spaces are still unique to video games a decade and a half plus years later. Those space battles and boarding actions were legendary. At the very least I want to see someone forge a dope custom map/game.
The original Battlefront II space battles are still so unique and I've never seen another game attempt to do it. I remember being the engineer or mechanic or whatever they were called, piloting a gunship straight into the enemy hangar, running out and to the core and dropping all my detonators and blowing them up as quickly as I could. I usually never made it that far but I would try lol....

I would love to see Halo try to do something like this for a multiplayer game type. Big space battles are a rarity in Halo but it could be really cool. I also remember seeing a rumor that 343 was developing a BTB 2.0 of sorts where you could spawn on squad mates or drop in in either ODST pods or ride in on a Pelican with reinforcements. Maybe like a PVP mode with AI teammates to help the battlefield feel more alive.

In terms of whether I would want to see nautical vehicles/gameplay, I think it would be interesting and definitely something not done before in a Halo game. I imagine it's quite difficult to get interesting gameplay while you are riding on the water, as you'd either have to have enemies chasing you in boats of their own or they would be shooting at you from the shoreline. If you had to combat aerial vehicles while on water, I think that may get annoying because there's nowhere for you to hide on the water so you'd just get blasted instantly, especially on higher difficulties. An underwater level could be cool and would present some interesting mechanics, but might end up being a one-off thing that wouldn't really be worth the investment. Still I hope they have a crazy mission that's wildly different from the rest to spice things up during campaign.
Irr7793 wrote:
And I don't use the terminology naval combat here specifically because in Halo that might be confused with space combat. I am in fact referring to that mystical final frontier for playable Halo environments - water. Which, by the way, has been considered before in development. If you've never seen the Halo: Reach prototypes video, I highly recommend you watch it (YouTube link here - boat footage begins at 0:18) - It clearly shows some playable UNSC u-boat looking craft along with specially designed oceanic physics. It illustrates the potential of such a vehicle, and I think it would be really cool to use. Imagine in campaign Covenant cruisers floating on the waters (they already look like sea predators!) and maybe you had to board them or w.e. In MP the incorporation of land, sea and sky vehicles could fit really well into the rock/paper/scissors formula Halo adheres to as well, especially with the greater emphasis on BTB. Would you be psyched for some boat action in Halo?
Eh. Lore wise it just doesn't make sense. Gameplay wise... eh too. It would totally change level design to accomodate large water areas.

Looking at that video though, holy damn I want that space combat and global war.
Funny thing is a lot of Halo maps (think Valhalla, Tempest) already use water as a containment mechanism trope so it may be a more natural incorporation than one might expect. It would definitely be more prevalent on larger map of course. And omg space combat like the original Battlefront where you could fly your men from one frigate to the other would be just insane.
Imagine a game somewhere in between Halo, Battlefront II (the original,) and Battlefield?

- Frigate Vs. Corvette in Space -
- Frigate Vs. Covenant Base -
- Corvette Vs. UNSC Base -

Drop in using ODST pods, spawn on your squad... call in orbital reinforcements, pelicans, scorpions....

I really hope 343 turns to some anthology games soon.
Some of the gameplay from the original Battlefront games was actually quite good. The space battles where you could board and sabotage enemy ships from inside and bots that actually move around the map to capture spawn locations were pretty enjoyable. Its been a very long time since I played Battlefront, probably about 10+ years ago on an aging PS2.
Dude some of those OG Battlefront play spaces are still unique to video games a decade and a half plus years later. Those space battles and boarding actions were legendary. At the very least I want to see someone forge a dope custom map/game.
The original Battlefront II space battles are still so unique and I've never seen another game attempt to do it. I remember being the engineer or mechanic or whatever they were called, piloting a gunship straight into the enemy hangar, running out and to the core and dropping all my detonators and blowing them up as quickly as I could. I usually never made it that far but I would try lol....

I would love to see Halo try to do something like this for a multiplayer game type. Big space battles are a rarity in Halo but it could be really cool. I also remember seeing a rumor that 343 was developing a BTB 2.0 of sorts where you could spawn on squad mates or drop in in either ODST pods or ride in on a Pelican with reinforcements. Maybe like a PVP mode with AI teammates to help the battlefield feel more alive.

In terms of whether I would want to see nautical vehicles/gameplay, I think it would be interesting and definitely something not done before in a Halo game. I imagine it's quite difficult to get interesting gameplay while you are riding on the water, as you'd either have to have enemies chasing you in boats of their own or they would be shooting at you from the shoreline. If you had to combat aerial vehicles while on water, I think that may get annoying because there's nowhere for you to hide on the water so you'd just get blasted instantly, especially on higher difficulties. An underwater level could be cool and would present some interesting mechanics, but might end up being a one-off thing that wouldn't really be worth the investment. Still I hope they have a crazy mission that's wildly different from the rest to spice things up during campaign.
So imagine two cruisers, maybe the UNSC interior looks like the Anchor 9 hangar area and the Covenant one looks like the Corvette firefight map. Whatever. And then you've got the primary transport vehicles, the Pelican and the Phantom which can load up on passengers and is relatively sturdy, if a bit slow. Next are the Seraphs and Sabre's which are strictly for dogfighting but can pick off the transports. Maybe add in light escort vehicles like the banshee and idk maybe the drone from ODST, as well as anti-air placements in each vessel and we're looking at a VERY fun multiplayer experience. To your point you could expand that concept to have SOEIV/HEV and Covenant drop-pods with a ground engagement below (Do you remember the Halo 3 Beta version of Valhalla where the skybox was like infinite and you could fly a Banshee into space?). And then yes similar to Warzone, maybe incorporate some AI elements. Similar to H4 perk system, maybe have some weapon or vehicle drops from the cruiser above, ability to call down an orbital bombardment, stuff like that. Maybe even call in a squad of AI marines? Lot's of interesting possibilities.
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