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Aim Assist could kill Infinite in the long run

OP KenaiPhoenix

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A little bit of context: I have been playing Halo: MCC since launch on Xbox One. I got a quite average-good, nothing out of the extraordinary but i could carry a couple of matches. Then i move to PC so I stopped palying on Xbox. I was very happy when they decided to launch MCC on PC, and since the release in PC I played regulary (work and other stuff always get in the way... but thats life)

My problem is that since I get back to Halo on PC I always get destroyed. If it is not snipers or Swat Im always in the botton of the leaderboard. I was aware of the aim assist debate but I always think "It is not that terrible... MW has crossplay with MnK and Controllers and it is not that bad". Until yesterday I plug my old Xbox One controller and ohhhhh boy... thats a lot of help (Halo 3).

I get it, they cant change it in MCC because that will mess with how Halo 3 is played. They added Input based Matchmaking (even if i cant use it because it seems like no one plays with MnK) so Im not complaining about MCC... Im worried about Infinite (another reason to be worried): if they dont scale down the assist they could kill the competitiviness of the game and the PC community very quick.
How about we just block cross input support? That sounds far better, because every death to a kbm player is bs anyway.
Dude, why is everybody so absolute?

For Ranked playlist, yes they should probably lock them.

For social they should turn it down the help. When you are using a controller in Multiplayer is like the game is doing everything for you (very little must be done to keep the player in sight). You can have Help to assist the control users without doing everything for them. To the experiment: play a couple of matches with MnK and then use the controller. I even manage to "look on" players I didnt see, and head shots are a lot of more easy.

I will said it again: my point is not to eliminate the assist on control players (it would leave them in the same spot that MnK players are right now) just change it to a more middle ground.
I don't care what your argument is and I don't care what the precise aim assist exactly is. No matter how strong or weak aim assist is, I only care that I never get matched with kbm players in ranked or social. I deserve the right to play in clean lobbies. If people choose to partake in cross lobbies then by all means let them and let them join other cross lobbies in every playlist, (or maybe just social), but leave every playlist, be it ranked or social, as single input lobbies. I do not want to put up with kbm in social.

Frankly this whole thing about wanting ranked locked and social cross play sounds like someone getting spanked by good controller players but wants to spank lesser controller players who aren't taking it as seriously as ranked.
A little bit of context: I have been playing Halo: MCC since launch on Xbox One. I got a quite average-good, nothing out of the extraordinary but i could carry a couple of matches. Then i move to PC so I stopped palying on Xbox. I was very happy when they decided to launch MCC on PC, and since the release in PC I played regulary (work and other stuff always get in the way... but thats life)

My problem is that since I get back to Halo on PC I always get destroyed. If it is not snipers or Swat Im always in the botton of the leaderboard. I was aware of the aim assist debate but I always think "It is not that terrible... MW has crossplay with MnK and Controllers and it is not that bad". Until yesterday I plug my old Xbox One controller and ohhhhh boy... thats a lot of help (Halo 3).

I get it, they cant change it in MCC because that will mess with how Halo 3 is played. They added Input based Matchmaking (even if i cant use it because it seems like no one plays with MnK) so Im not complaining about MCC... Im worried about Infinite (another reason to be worried): if they dont scale down the assist they could kill the competitiviness of the game and the PC community very quick.
How about we just block cross input support? That sounds far better, because every death to a kbm player is bs anyway.
Dude, why is everybody so absolute?

For Ranked playlist, yes they should probably lock them.

For social they should turn it down the help. When you are using a controller in Multiplayer is like the game is doing everything for you (very little must be done to keep the player in sight). You can have Help to assist the control users without doing everything for them. To the experiment: play a couple of matches with MnK and then use the controller. I even manage to "look on" players I didnt see, and head shots are a lot of more easy.

I will said it again: my point is not to eliminate the assist on control players (it would leave them in the same spot that MnK players are right now) just change it to a more middle ground.
I don't care what your argument is and I don't care what the precise aim assist exactly is. No matter how strong or weak aim assist is, I only care that I never get matched with kbm players in ranked or social. I deserve the right to play in clean lobbies. If people choose to partake in cross lobbies then by all means let them and let them join other cross lobbies in every playlist, (or maybe just social), but leave every playlist, be it ranked or social, as single input lobbies. I do not want to put up with kbm in social.

Frankly this whole thing about wanting ranked locked and social cross play sounds like someone getting spanked by good controller players but wants to spank lesser controller players who aren't taking it as seriously as ranked.
So... you dont care about arguments (this will take you far in life btw) and you want less features in a future game. This sounds smart (until now it is full sarcasm).

Now taking you seriusly (i dont get why you are taking a position so extreme in a videogame discusion, but here we go!): first of all no, you dont have a right... it is a video game and people are using the definitions of "rights" to the point it no longer makes sense. You have the right to be what you want to be, to have education, food, (This is no the point of this post, so leave it here). This is a video game, you should definetly have the OPTION/FEATURE to play only with controllers or with MnK, doenst matther if you are a social player that wants to play Halo with his computer user friend or brother or like you, people that fear MnK so much that want to take a feature out a game.

At the end is really simple math: less division between users + more users in the same pool + that means more games = a game that could live decades. The problem is that right now, if you dont use a Controller, you are out. It would be same if they remove the assist in aiming (I already said it). That why they need to find a middle ground where the winning side is not decided by what you are using. At this moment Halo has so much help that it is almost cheating, it didnt matther before because everyone was in the same page... but it wont be the same case with Infinite.
My problem is that since I get back to Halo on PC I always get destroyed... if they dont scale down the assist they could kill the competitiviness of the game and the PC community very quick.
How about we just block cross input support? That sounds far better, because every death to a kbm player is bs anyway.
Dude, why is everybody so absolute?

For Ranked playlist, yes they should probably lock them.

For social they should turn it down the help. When you are using a controller in Multiplayer is like the game is doing everything for you (very little must be done to keep the player in sight). You can have Help to assist the control users without doing everything for them. To the experiment: play a couple of matches with MnK and then use the controller. I even manage to "look on" players I didnt see, and head shots are a lot of more easy.

I will said it again: my point is not to eliminate the assist on control players (it would leave them in the same spot that MnK players are right now) just change it to a more middle ground.
I don't care what your argument is and I don't care what the precise aim assist exactly is. No matter how strong or weak aim assist is, I only care that I never get matched with kbm players in ranked or social. I deserve the right to play in clean lobbies. If people choose to partake in cross lobbies then by all means let them and let them join other cross lobbies in every playlist, (or maybe just social), but leave every playlist, be it ranked or social, as single input lobbies. I do not want to put up with kbm in social.

Frankly this whole thing about wanting ranked locked and social cross play sounds like someone getting spanked by good controller players but wants to spank lesser controller players who aren't taking it as seriously as ranked.
So... you dont care about arguments
I love arguing. You can ask some people on this board. You can ask my hate-stalker on Reddit (how they haven't been banned for following me from sub to sub I don't know, although there was a week long break, so maybe they did get suspended). This however, is not something worth considering.

Your solution is to force people in social to play with kbm with lower aim assist. That is incredibly selfish. My initial response was a pithy remark from an equally selfish position, just the opposite side. I paralleled your selfishness and you reacted negatively towards it, just as controller players should towards your manifesto. That was the point of that post and that was lost on you.

There are irrefutable inherited advantages and disadvantages to mouse and the same goes for controllers. Depending on who you are playing, you have to adjust to their strengths or weaknesses based on input rather than skill. They have strengths and weaknesses you and I can't replicate purely because of input device. Therefore, it will never be purely skill dependent. And while you complain controller players have an unfair advantage, controller players will argue you have an unfair advantage because you can do things much easier than they can. Therefore, the only way to keep everyone happy is separate lobbies but give the option to join mixed lobbies if you choose to opt into it.
[not arguing](this will take you far in life btw)
Arguing with everyone does not actually get you very far. This is false. Trust me on this one.
and you want less features in a future game.
No, YOU want less features. I want a lobby for controllers, a lobby for kbm, and a lobby for mixed. That's three social features. That's more than what you're offering, which is one single feature.
first of all no, you dont have a right... it is a video game and people are using the definitions of "rights" to the point it no longer makes sense.
If this is how you're going to start your argument about how the game developer has the right then you already lost. You don't have the right to say they need to tone down aim assist anymore than I have the right to say keep all lobbies separate unless people opt into mixed lobbies. Wherever your backseat game design comes from, my argument holds the same exact "rights." So no, if I don't have the right, you don't have the right, which makes your point null. We're all going by the same premise that the developer has final say but shouled listen to us the player. You hold zero special status in that regard.
You have the right to be what you want to be, to have education, food, (This is no the point of this post, so leave it here).
No, you're lying, so I'm not going to let you create a false premise. You don't have the right to any of those things except gradeschool education provided you're a citizen of upstanding status (that is to say, didn't get kicked out). You have the freedom to pursue those as you see fit, but you are NOT entitled to them.
Your entire logic is debunked.
This is a video game, you should definetly have the OPTION/FEATURE to play only with controllers or with MnK
Right, should you choose, and should you not choose, you should be able to play to play with people of the same input as you. That's why separate lobbies but mixed if you want to join mixed lobbies.
, doenst matther if you are a social player that wants to play Halo with his computer user friend or brother or like you, people that fear MnK so much that want to take a feature out a game.
I don't care what other people/s arguments might be. It's an irrelevent sb story to gather sympathy from me. It doesn't work. My position is clear. KBM plays with KBM and Controller plays with controller and should they choose to go into a mixed lobby then they can go into a mixed lobby with others who choose to join a mixed lobby. At no point should anyone's time be spoiled by playing against physical input devices they don't want to.
At the end is really simple math:
Like many others, if I am forced to play against kbm, I will not be playing the game. There is your simple math. You force controller and mouse together = controller gone.
The problem is that right now, if you dont use a Controller, you are out.
Then you should play with mouse players. And maybe they should tone down aim assist. Doesn't matter. Either way, no one should be automatically opted into playing with players of the opposite input device.

You don't have the right to force people to play games they don't want to play just to appease you. That statement is true whether it's Too Human coop or a cross input Halo lobby. People should be able to choose to opt into mixed lobbies and not have mixed lobbies if they don't opt into them. Period.
I call BS on your title. I got friends playing on PC regurarely and they play with MKB just as I do with controller.
Sometimes better, sometimes worse.
I think it should stay the way it is. Don't fix it if it is not broken.
Hard no from me. Bungie's AA bullet-magnetism secret sauce was nothing to trifle with
I think have it as an option and lock it for ranked. Sort of how you could always search for like best connection etc or just search for a match as quick as possible, maybe add it as a preference for social, either prefer same input, force same input or no preference.

The problem right now why this wouldn't work on MCC but could work for Infinite is that ranked on MCC is frankly dead. Everyone play's social (and tbh I don't blame them).
I personally agree on toning down the aim assist a bit because from what I remember or it could just be my imagination, but aim assists seems a lot stronger compared to its original. I can play both M&K and controller, and I can defeinetly see the advantages of using a controller for general play, such as slayer. I do agree that M&K is quite strong for those long distance battles and in a sense, I do agree that they also have an advantage for SWAT and snipers. However, from what I usually see in comments that people disagree to tone down aim assist is that they think that a lot of M&K can easily make snappy shots or track an enemy, which is not true. I played enough MCC on M&K to compete against a controller to a certain degree, but when I play against my friends who do not play a lot of Halo, but play other fps (they do have decent aim and use M&K), they do have trouble with tracking.

I personally do not know what the right answer is besides testing this through flights. I'm ok where aim assist is right now if it is in Halo Infinite, but as long as it has the population to support just M&K users. I feel like MCC is a lost cause for aim assist since there is just not enough players playing it so it's something that I accept.
Aim assist has had a negligible effect on my performance. I didn’t notice until I started to hear about it, but I would like the option to turn it off.
only people who use M&KB will understand the frustration of playing against aim assist, even fps professionals who play with M&KB miss shots but in MCC people who use control almost never miss, it is practically impossible to win a head-to-head confrontation, I repeat. ONLY M&KB PLAYERS WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT
Aim assit must be removed
only people who use M&KB will understand the frustration of playing against aim assist, even fps professionals who play with M&KB miss shots but in MCC people who use control almost never miss, it is practically impossible to win a head-to-head confrontation, I repeat. ONLY M&KB PLAYERS WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT
Aim assit must be removed
How about you just turn off cross input play?
Removing aim assist out right would be a bad idea; good controller players would have a very hard time landing shots, it would be damn near impossible for the bad players on the sticks. They should however tone down the aim assist on MCC by a significant amount, say 30-45% of the current strength. At the moment it seems like everyone has a solid shot and the skill gap for accuracy is not as big as it seemed in the past. It always blows my mind when I see players who are clearly below average, have the movement and game sense of a potato yet 4/5 shot me across the map while I'm strafing my -Yoink- off, like what?
only people who use M&KB will understand the frustration of playing against aim assist, even fps professionals who play with M&KB miss shots but in MCC people who use control almost never miss, it is practically impossible to win a head-to-head confrontation, I repeat. ONLY M&KB PLAYERS WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT
Aim assit must be removed
How about you just turn off cross input play?
Not enough players to get into games or it's just too long to find player unfortunately
I repeat. ONLY M&KB PLAYERS WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT
Aim assit must be removed
I can and have played with both. I'm about the same level with both, including head to head. Aim assist will not be removed, the controller needs it. I think they should just allow us the option to turn off cross play, and perhaps add input based selection.
Aim assist has had a negligible effect on my performance.
How do you know, have you played without it ? If you're unsure play PUBG, as I recall it has no aim assist, you might find you rely on it more than you think.

Sorry mods, forgot to quote.
JOE DC 34 wrote:
only people who use M&KB will understand the frustration of playing against aim assist, even fps professionals who play with M&KB miss shots but in MCC people who use control almost never miss, it is practically impossible to win a head-to-head confrontation, I repeat. ONLY M&KB PLAYERS WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT
Aim assit must be removed
How about you just turn off cross input play?
Not enough players to get into games or it's just too long to find player unfortunately
That sounds like a kbm problem. The vast majority of the community should not suffer for the whims of the few. As I see it, kbm players should have the option of playing in kbm only lobbies and mixed lobbies. If they play in mixed lobbies, that is at their own peril. The controller experience should not be compromised for the sake of the kbm players anymore than kbm players should be locked to poor mouse control.

If KBM players think controller players have too much aim assist, they can play in KBM only lobbies or plug in a controller.

EDIT: And if we really want to get philosophical about game design, KBM and controller games shouldn't even have the same balance to begin with. They are vastly different control schemes and the only way to make the game the best it can be on each platform is to individually balance for each platform. This is an issue that was a big problem in Titanfall 2. On one platform a gun was OP but on the other the gun was garbage. The opinion across the community was split where literally half the community wanted buffs and the other wanted nerfs. Movement and pacing also argued about, as what felt better on one platform didn't feel as good on the other. Does that mean crossplay becomes its own amalgamation of balance tweaks that feels compromised a bit? Yes, absolutely, but it also means the game is also its absolute best on each platform instead of being compromised for the entire community.
only people who use M&KB will understand the frustration of playing against aim assist, even fps professionals who play with M&KB miss shots but in MCC people who use control almost never miss, it is practically impossible to win a head-to-head confrontation, I repeat. ONLY M&KB PLAYERS WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT
Aim assit must be removed
How about you just turn off cross input play?
No players found 🙃
only people who use M&KB will understand the frustration of playing against aim assist, even fps professionals who play with M&KB miss shots but in MCC people who use control almost never miss, it is practically impossible to win a head-to-head confrontation, I repeat. ONLY M&KB PLAYERS WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT
Aim assit must be removed
How about you just turn off cross input play?
No players found 🙃
Sounds like you need a controller or a community that wants to play kbm.
I hate Aim Assist. As long as I can turn it off in settings, I'm fine. After playing so much Siege, I am used to no Aim Assist. It makes it harder to hit the target with it than without it.
Yeh it could
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