Armor abilities

Naqser wrote:

Stardriver907 wrote:

Naqser wrote:

Stardriver907 wrote:

Naqser wrote:

And I've asked before what kind of technological advances were made between 2001 and now which has allowed, which mechanics exactly? Outside of graphical advancements.

All I know for certain is that every new game claimed in one way or another to be techically superior and claims were made that things in the new game weren't possible in the older games. If they lied about that and Bungie could have given us the equivalent of Halo 5 back in 2001 then I guess that means (A) we are all chumps and (B) any claims made by 343i that there is something that is technologically not possible now is -Yoink- because there has never been anything that was not possible. If there have indeed not been any technological advances since the original Xbox then this new SlipSpace engine is just a bunch of hooey and not significantly different from what Bungie originally wrote. There should be no talk here about "classic" gameplay because that should be the only gameplay the game is or was ever capable of.

Yeah, you got me there, pal. All this time it's just been graphics.

Did you look into in what way the new game was technologically superior?
I mean, if you're certain, then it wouldn't be difficult to point out a number of gameplay mechanics which wouldn't have been possible in 2001, which are in use today.

Because what you describe most certainly sounds like graphic advancements. New methods of rendering and so forth to decrease gpu, cpu, RAM and whatnot load.

Um, no, I did not. It was not something I cared about then, and not much has changed. Feel free to look yourself if it's that important. Is that what SlipSpace is supposed to do? New rendering? Better use of RAM? Why bother if all it gets you is better graphics? If Halo 2 was not superior to CE in any way, why didn't CE have dual wielding or hijacking? Why couldn't you move from the warthog driver seat to the gunner position directly in CE if it were possible? Gameplay reasons? You tell me. Which game featured assassinations? Was that CE? I forget. Those were graphic enhancements?

I mean, hijacking was a huge thing for many of us in Halo 2 but tournament games don't have vehicles so I guess only casuals could appreciate it. I can't imagine why Bungie would have withheld hijacking in CE if it was possible. Or Thrust, since Master Chief's armor had a thruster pack that was "inoperable" in that game. Or Clamber. THAT might've come in handy when the Flood showed up. Not to mention, Sprint. If they could have done it all then, why didn't they? Didn't want to show all their cards with the first game? Playing it cool and doling it out one game at a time? Does that mean we can never, ever look forward to a time when we can Sprint in one direction and shoot in another because they just can't coax any mechanics out of the Xbox One that couldn't happen with the original Xbox? Why do I need a new Xbox if my old 360 can get the job done? Oh yeah. Graphics.

If technology is not the reason, then what is?

You made the claim, I'm asking for examples, it's not my job to go search for things you don't want to provide to back your own claim up.

Why couldn't you do anything of those things in Halo CE but do them in Halo 2?
As was pointed out already, and each as plausible as the other:
A: Didn't think of it
B: Didn't think it fit into the game
C: Lack of resources.

Something being possible to implement, is entirely different from choosing to actually implement it.
Assassinations were in Halo Reach, but you don't need to look further than say Gears of War or even simple beat 'em ups to see "cinematic" takedowns.

Hijacking: As early as GTA 1, a top down shooter. But closer and perhaps more "relevant", GTA 3 which released in 2000, a year prior to Halo CE.

Thrust: Closest thing I can think of which I'm familiar with is the quick evade of Unreal Tournament, 1998 I believe? Highly doubt it'd be impossible to rework it to function like thrusters do.

Clamber: Tomb Raider, first one in 1996?

Sprint: The first Turbo function was in Doom 1993/94, if that doesn't suffice due to big differencs, we can take the Day of Defeat mod for Half Life which had a sprint function with a visible stamina meter.

Let's see some more:

Equipment / AA: Giants Citizen Kabuto, the year is 2000. Duke Nukem 3D, even earlier.

Regenerating health and shields: Zerg and Protoss in Starcraft.

Now dual wielding, that's a tough one. Though I'd point to Diablo 2 for that one, Barbarian and Assassin classes.

However, why aren't we proning, corner leaning, or wall hugging? Did other studios from a decade ago, even earlier, have "technology" too advanced for Halo on an Xbox One?

Being able to do something, is another thing than coming up with something to do, which too is a different thing than thinking it is a good idea to do.
Then you also need the resources for it.

But yes, essentially the driving reason is advances in the graphics. AI also benefit from the better hardware, but in terms of mechanics, your next advancement is VR and the body motion controll thing. There you may have mechanics not available without the VR tools. Perhaps you can surprise me though, can you think of a mechanic for Halo 9? Which you think couldn't be done now, as long as we keep Halo 9 non-VR. You have normal controllers, and an Xbox with better hardware.

Sprinting in one direction and shooting in another? What? Doom 1993/94?
What technological advancement is needed to sprint in one direction and shoot in another? Why can't it be done now?
Then again, I wonder, MASC equipped mech could most likely do it in MWO. Though not omnidirectional due to torso twist limitations. An Urbanmech with MASC could do it though. But they can't have MASC.

That's a false equivalency, albeit a well researched one. Even at the expense of Halo's graphics (which would be unacceptable) it would still have been impossible to include ALL of these things in one game.

Woodsman907 wrote:

Naqser wrote:

Stardriver907 wrote:

Naqser wrote:

Stardriver907 wrote:

Naqser wrote:

And I've asked before what kind of technological advances were made between 2001 and now which has allowed, which mechanics exactly? Outside of graphical advancements.

All I know for certain is that every new game claimed in one way or another to be techically superior and claims were made that things in the new game weren't possible in the older games. If they lied about that and Bungie could have given us the equivalent of Halo 5 back in 2001 then I guess that means (A) we are all chumps and (B) any claims made by 343i that there is something that is technologically not possible now is -Yoink- because there has never been anything that was not possible. If there have indeed not been any technological advances since the original Xbox then this new SlipSpace engine is just a bunch of hooey and not significantly different from what Bungie originally wrote. There should be no talk here about "classic" gameplay because that should be the only gameplay the game is or was ever capable of.

Yeah, you got me there, pal. All this time it's just been graphics.

Did you look into in what way the new game was technologically superior?
I mean, if you're certain, then it wouldn't be difficult to point out a number of gameplay mechanics which wouldn't have been possible in 2001, which are in use today.

Because what you describe most certainly sounds like graphic advancements. New methods of rendering and so forth to decrease gpu, cpu, RAM and whatnot load.

Um, no, I did not. It was not something I cared about then, and not much has changed. Feel free to look yourself if it's that important. Is that what SlipSpace is supposed to do? New rendering? Better use of RAM? Why bother if all it gets you is better graphics? If Halo 2 was not superior to CE in any way, why didn't CE have dual wielding or hijacking? Why couldn't you move from the warthog driver seat to the gunner position directly in CE if it were possible? Gameplay reasons? You tell me. Which game featured assassinations? Was that CE? I forget. Those were graphic enhancements?

I mean, hijacking was a huge thing for many of us in Halo 2 but tournament games don't have vehicles so I guess only casuals could appreciate it. I can't imagine why Bungie would have withheld hijacking in CE if it was possible. Or Thrust, since Master Chief's armor had a thruster pack that was "inoperable" in that game. Or Clamber. THAT might've come in handy when the Flood showed up. Not to mention, Sprint. If they could have done it all then, why didn't they? Didn't want to show all their cards with the first game? Playing it cool and doling it out one game at a time? Does that mean we can never, ever look forward to a time when we can Sprint in one direction and shoot in another because they just can't coax any mechanics out of the Xbox One that couldn't happen with the original Xbox? Why do I need a new Xbox if my old 360 can get the job done? Oh yeah. Graphics.

If technology is not the reason, then what is?

You made the claim, I'm asking for examples, it's not my job to go search for things you don't want to provide to back your own claim up.

Why couldn't you do anything of those things in Halo CE but do them in Halo 2?
As was pointed out already, and each as plausible as the other:
A: Didn't think of it
B: Didn't think it fit into the game
C: Lack of resources.

Something being possible to implement, is entirely different from choosing to actually implement it.
Assassinations were in Halo Reach, but you don't need to look further than say Gears of War or even simple beat 'em ups to see "cinematic" takedowns.

Hijacking: As early as GTA 1, a top down shooter. But closer and perhaps more "relevant", GTA 3 which released in 2000, a year prior to Halo CE.

Thrust: Closest thing I can think of which I'm familiar with is the quick evade of Unreal Tournament, 1998 I believe? Highly doubt it'd be impossible to rework it to function like thrusters do.

Clamber: Tomb Raider, first one in 1996?

Sprint: The first Turbo function was in Doom 1993/94, if that doesn't suffice due to big differencs, we can take the Day of Defeat mod for Half Life which had a sprint function with a visible stamina meter.

Let's see some more:

Equipment / AA: Giants Citizen Kabuto, the year is 2000. Duke Nukem 3D, even earlier.

Regenerating health and shields: Zerg and Protoss in Starcraft.

Now dual wielding, that's a tough one. Though I'd point to Diablo 2 for that one, Barbarian and Assassin classes.

However, why aren't we proning, corner leaning, or wall hugging? Did other studios from a decade ago, even earlier, have "technology" too advanced for Halo on an Xbox One?

Being able to do something, is another thing than coming up with something to do, which too is a different thing than thinking it is a good idea to do.
Then you also need the resources for it.

But yes, essentially the driving reason is advances in the graphics. AI also benefit from the better hardware, but in terms of mechanics, your next advancement is VR and the body motion controll thing. There you may have mechanics not available without the VR tools. Perhaps you can surprise me though, can you think of a mechanic for Halo 9? Which you think couldn't be done now, as long as we keep Halo 9 non-VR. You have normal controllers, and an Xbox with better hardware.

Sprinting in one direction and shooting in another? What? Doom 1993/94?
What technological advancement is needed to sprint in one direction and shoot in another? Why can't it be done now?
Then again, I wonder, MASC equipped mech could most likely do it in MWO. Though not omnidirectional due to torso twist limitations. An Urbanmech with MASC could do it though. But they can't have MASC.

That's a false equivalency, albeit a well researched one. Even at the expense of Halo's graphics (which would be unacceptable) it would still have been impossible to include ALL of these things in one game.

A: I'm not really going to bother with the previous post unless you clean it up.

B: Sure, pointing out different mechanics' appearances throughout the years pre-dating Halo CE for the question wether or not "technological advances" has enabled these mechanics, sure is a logical falacy.

Really? It'd be impossible?

Assassination: Triggered animation, quite like entering and exiting a vehicle. Just a different result.

Hijacking: Triggered animation, this IS entering a vehicle while a hostile occupy it, with a specific result.

Dual Wielding: This is an addition to character active inventory, a small HUD addition of an additional weapon and its ammo counter. Third person wise it's a slightly different weapon holding animation and an additional weapon attached to the left hand.

Equipment / AAs: Another inventory management thing. Easily just a second grenade inventory housing equipment / AAs, and a different key for activating them.

Sprint: Speed increase, other values lowered, firing disabled. Other animation.

Thrust: Forceful sidestep in a specific direction.

Please do share how all of these, would be so taxing for the GPU on the OG Xbox, that it couldn't be possible to have them all at the same time.
Seeing as most of them are graphically relying on a few new animations, and some on a few extra sprites, and they're not even frequent.

Stardriver907 wrote:

That's a false equivalency, [...]

Except it isn't. You're talking about game mechanics, which in most cases are not engine relevant. A better gaming engine means it's easier to program for, libraries are more accessible (Direct X for instance), you can create bigger worlds filled with more details due to more and faster memory, you can have more diversity in props and texture because loading times are reduced, AI pathfinding and code trees can become more complex, different physic engines can work together and so on. Like you see it isn't even a discussion about graphical output alone.

THIS are the things that weren't possible before with older versions of the Halo engine (and H4 also runs on that software Btw, it even recycled assets from Reach), not climb or sprint. The reason why hijacking and such wasn't in HCE is obvious and other users already explained perfectly why that's the case. If you don't believe it was possible to introduce, well, mods for Costume Edition disproves you...

Stardriver907 wrote:

Even at the expense of Halo's graphics (which would be unacceptable) it would still have been impossible to include ALL of these things in one game.

All mechanics would have been possible, it's just a mater of resources, time and manpower really. You want an example for something that is more or less only possible with todays tech? Battle Royal. Both netcode and CPU restrictions on the OG Xbox wouldn't make it possible to create a real time action game in a shared world context, not with decent graphics and framerates at least. Warzone might have been possible on a game like Halo 3 on the 360, but it would have been hard to pull off. Simply put, gaming mechanics are not AI, map sizes or physic engines!

What armor abilities? Probably some from halo 4 or reach