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"BLOOM" in halo infinite

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OP 7/11/2018

OxDaV

Recruit - Onyx

Bloom in reach made us pace our shots not like halo 5 spammers for the win.

If not bloom make halo infinite that you pace your shots.Creates a larger skill gap,because anybody who comes on h5 can get a bunch of kills by frantically spamming the fire trigger.

On reach you need considerable practice to achieve the skill.Try panic spray on reach see how far that gets you.

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7/11/2018

KogaGmente III

Marine - Gold

OxDaV wrote:
Bloom in reach made us pace our shots not like halo 5 spammers for the win.

If not bloom make halo infinite that you pace your shots.Creates a larger skill gap,because anybody who comes on h5 can get a bunch of kills by frantically spamming the fire trigger.

On reach you need considerable practice to achieve the skill.Try panic spray on reach see how far that gets you.

While I think bloom was a nice attention to detail I found that it didn't affect my fire that much. however all things considered I did find that it helped when you wanted to time your shots because the bloom would tell you when your bullet or aim was at it's most accurate.
I personally miss how the weapons have a kick to them, but didn't really make you feel like your holding a stick or a wobbling gun. Halo 5's Bloom and animations just are too Stiff. However I do prefer Halo 5 because it makes it considerably easier to aim. Mostly because the AIM DOT isn't a little lower than center screen. I like how Halo 5's aim dot is center screen. I guess I am a bit bias as I like both. I think it depends whether 343i wants to go competitive or not. I find Halo 5 way more competitive over Halo Reach, Halo Reach was just fun! Though, if you really wanted to look at fun, I'd say we start looking at Halo 3. CX

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7/11/2018

WerepyreND

ODST - Bronze

Please, lets not even joke.

Rather than make accurate shots miss at random, lets just make aiming itself more difficult for once by toning down the AA and bullet magnetism.

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7/11/2018

Guard Dog81

ODST - Iron

No thanks. I remember bloom made everything random and people just spammed the trigger in close engagements. I'd rather have spread back over bloom.

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7/11/2018

KogaGmente III

Marine - Gold

WerepyreND wrote:
Please, lets not even joke.

Rather than make accurate shots miss at random, lets just make aiming itself more difficult for once by toning down the AA and bullet magnetism.

I'd personally find that a bit to much, it's already really hard to aim in Halo. Why make it harder? Plus I looked at your stats on Halo 5, you haven't even played it, so how your judging it? You have on MCC, but that has Aim assistance.

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7/11/2018

WerepyreND

ODST - Bronze

KogaGmente III wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
Please, lets not even joke.

Rather than make accurate shots miss at random, lets just make aiming itself more difficult for once by toning down the AA and bullet magnetism.
I'd personally find that a bit to much, it's already really hard to aim in Halo. Why make it harder? Plus I looked at your stats on Halo 5, you haven't even played it, so how your judging it? You have on MCC, but that has Aim assistance.

Tone down is not the same as remove. A degree of auto aim will always be necessary for analogue stick based controls. I don't think it is that unreasonable to ask for at least OG CE levels of AA and bullet mag. We don't need Halo 2 swipe snipes, we don't need the Halo 5's sniper practically throwing heashots into your lap.

If aiming is difficult in games like Halo 5(Halo 3 has problems too) it is because the aiming system itself is bad.

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7/11/2018

TeeJaY ChArMs

ODST - Silver

NO.

No Halo fan should want bloom in this franchise because it:

1) Lowers the shooting skill gap by adding a random element to gun fights.

2) Increases the kill times to insane heights. This not only makes the escape window for enemies HUGE, but it also diminishes the impact each individual player can have on the match. Bloom serves no other purpose other than to DISEMPOWER you.

Also, you can't "spam" pistol shots in H5 when the most optimal rate of fire is the fastest rate of fire. Your issue seems to be that the kill times in H5 are too fast, which I completely disagree with.

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7/11/2018

KogaGmente III

Marine - Gold

WerepyreND wrote:
KogaGmente III wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
Please, lets not even joke.

Rather than make accurate shots miss at random, lets just make aiming itself more difficult for once by toning down the AA and bullet magnetism.
I'd personally find that a bit to much, it's already really hard to aim in Halo. Why make it harder? Plus I looked at your stats on Halo 5, you haven't even played it, so how your judging it? You have on MCC, but that has Aim assistance.
Tone down is not the same as remove. A degree of auto aim will always be necessary for analogue stick based controls. I don't think it is that unreasonable to ask for at least OG CE levels of AA and bullet mag. We don't need Halo 2 swipe snipes, we don't need the Halo 5's sniper practically throwing heashots into your lap.

If aiming is difficult in games like Halo 5(Halo 3 has problems too) it is because the aiming system itself is bad.

Gear of War doesn't have any Aim Assistance and it's great! but it is a 3rd person game. As for Halo 3 I don't think bungie was intending it to be competitive like we made it to be. Halo 3 is very casual for game play.

I don't feel like the Halo 5 Sniper throws Headshots your way. I find that it's actually harder for me to use a sniper in Halo 5 more than any other Halo.

For me Halo 4 was way too easy to use. This is me in Halo 4and this is me in Halo 5:
KogaGmente III Highlights 2017 me on Halo 5 before the weapon tune update.I linked to the time the sniper appeared but if you want fill free to watch from the start.

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7/11/2018

TheDarkKn1ght19

Marine - Gold

The inclusion of bloom in Halo Reach has been a point of heated discussion. Some like it and the challenge it presents, while others hate it because it adds a somewhat random element to the game.

My opinion on the whole matter may be somewhat biased because Halo Reach was my first and favorite Halo multiplayer experience. I have played through all other Halo multiplayers as well.

I like bloom. I like how it introduced an additional skill element and discouraged spamming. It can be random at times, yes, but since everyone deals with a little randomness I think it evens things out. Unlike others, I think bloom raises the skill gap. Spamming won't get you anywhere in Reach. Bloom also adds a sense of realism to a shooter needing it.

I find Halo 5 kill times to be way too fast (my personal opinion through 1000+ games), despite escapabilty, and spamming to be encouraged. I think that there needs to be something to discourage this behavior.

TeeJaY ChArMs wrote:
NO.

No Halo fan should want bloom in this franchise because it:

1) Lowers the shooting skill gap by adding a random element to gun fights.

2) Increases the kill times to insane heights. This not only makes the escape window for enemies HUGE, but it also diminishes the impact each individual player can have on the match. Bloom serves no other purpose other than to DISEMPOWER you.

Also, you can't "spam" pistol shots in H5 when the most optimal rate of fire is the fastest rate of fire. Your issue seems to be that the kill times in H5 are too fast, which I completely disagree with.

And I disagree with about almost everything you are saying, which is fine, but don't tell me what "Halo fans" should want. That's foolish. And when you mention escape window, I think we have bigger fish to fry (sprint).

I wholeheartedly agree, OP.

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7/11/2018

WerepyreND

ODST - Bronze

KogaGmente III wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
KogaGmente III wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
Please, lets not even joke.

Rather than make accurate shots miss at random, lets just make aiming itself more difficult for once by toning down the AA and bullet magnetism.
I'd personally find that a bit to much, it's already really hard to aim in Halo. Why make it harder? Plus I looked at your stats on Halo 5, you haven't even played it, so how your judging it? You have on MCC, but that has Aim assistance.
Tone down is not the same as remove. A degree of auto aim will always be necessary for analogue stick based controls. I don't think it is that unreasonable to ask for at least OG CE levels of AA and bullet mag. We don't need Halo 2 swipe snipes, we don't need the Halo 5's sniper practically throwing heashots into your lap.

If aiming is difficult in games like Halo 5(Halo 3 has problems too) it is because the aiming system itself is bad.
Gear of War doesn't have any Aim Assistance and it's great! but it is a 3rd person game. As for Halo 3 I don't think bungie was intending it to be competitive like we made it to be. Halo 3 is very casual for game play.

I don't feel like the Halo 5 Sniper throws Headshots your way. I find that it's actually harder for me to use a sniper in Halo 5 more than any other Halo.

For me Halo 4 was way too easy to use. This is me in Halo 4and this is me in Halo 5:
KogaGmente III Highlights 2017 me on Halo 5 before the weapon tune update.I linked to the time the sniper appeared but if you want fill free to watch from the start.

For one, I find the claim that gears of war doesn't have any aim assist on console, to be fairly dubious, not to mention actively dilute your original point that Halo somehow already 'difficult' to aim, but I digress. It doesn't really matter what other franchises are doing when we already have better examples in Halo, namely CE and that game was easily able to support a casual playerbase.

Halo 3's aiming difficulty, has nothing to do with creating a "casual" or "competitive" game, its terrible regardless. As I understand Halo 3 aiming is grid based as opposed to a circle(like other Halo games), which makes diagonal movement inherently clunky. Halo 5 meanwhile has been notorious both for its autoaim/magnetism as well as its busted aiming system, which in its case seems to be the result of having an "aiming" speed and a "turning" speed depending on where the stick is. Analogue sticks are simply not precise enough to make that work.

As a result Halo 5 is both hard to aim due to the fact the aiming system itself is sub par and easy due to the high levels of auto aim and magnetism.

But all of this still leaves me wondering why it would be so terrible to have an aiming system similar to CE in place of adding random spread via bloom into the game?

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7/11/2018

UnheardCARNAGE

ODST - Gold

KogaGmente III wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
KogaGmente III wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
Please, lets not even joke.

Rather than make accurate shots miss at random, lets just make aiming itself more difficult for once by toning down the AA and bullet magnetism.
I'd personally find that a bit to much, it's already really hard to aim in Halo. Why make it harder? Plus I looked at your stats on Halo 5, you haven't even played it, so how your judging it? You have on MCC, but that has Aim assistance.
Tone down is not the same as remove. A degree of auto aim will always be necessary for analogue stick based controls. I don't think it is that unreasonable to ask for at least OG CE levels of AA and bullet mag. We don't need Halo 2 swipe snipes, we don't need the Halo 5's sniper practically throwing heashots into your lap.

If aiming is difficult in games like Halo 5(Halo 3 has problems too) it is because the aiming system itself is bad.
I don't feel like the Halo 5 Sniper throws Headshots your way. I find that it's actually harder for me to use a sniper in Halo 5 more than any other Halo.

The H5 sniper is jokingly easy to use. The bullet magnetism is insane. You don’t even have to be aiming for the head to get the kill.

I would prefer that bloom did not make a return. Longer range encounters became a dice roll.

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7/11/2018

TeeJaY ChArMs

ODST - Silver

TheDarkKn1ght19 wrote:
The inclusion of bloom in Halo Reach has been a point of heated discussion. Some like it and the challenge it presents, while others hate it because it adds a somewhat random element to the game.

Pacing your shots is hardly a challenge, though. The cadence of bloom can be learned pretty quickly, especially since it's visually shown on your reticle.

TheDarkKn1ght19 wrote:
My opinion on the whole matter may be somewhat biased because Halo Reach was my first and favorite Halo multiplayer experience. I have played through all other Halo multiplayers as well.

Well take a step back and try to look at the mechanic objectively.

TheDarkKn1ght19 wrote:
I like bloom. I like how it introduced an additional skill element and discouraged spamming.

That was Bungie's intention, but that's not how it played out. If you played Reach in its prime then you should know it was more favorable to spam shots in mid-to-close ranges, which introduced inconsistent, luck-based gun battles. The only time you were encouraged to pace your shot was at longer ranges.

TheDarkKn1ght19 wrote:
It can be random at times, yes, but since everyone deals with a little randomness I think it evens things out.

Yes, let's leave it to randomness to decide our gun battles, not our skill. I'll win 50% of the time and you'll win 50% of the time. Seems fair.

TheDarkKn1ght19 wrote:
Unlike others, I think bloom raises the skill gap. Spamming won't get you anywhere in Reach.

It doesn't. And also untrue. I'm beginning to wonder if you've actually played Reach. Spamming can be mathematically proven to be more beneficial than pacing, as tsassi went over in this post.

TheDarkKn1ght19 wrote:
Bloom also adds a sense of realism to a shooter needing it.

I don't care for realism in multiplayer.

TheDarkKn1ght19 wrote:
I find Halo 5 kill times to be way too fast (my personal opinion through 1000+ games), despite escapabilty, and spamming to be encouraged. I think that there needs to be something to discourage this behavior.

Not sure why you think this since H5's average kill times aren't really any faster than previous entries, at least not by any significant margin. Again, you can't "spam" in H5 if the optimal fire rate is the fastest fire rate.

TheDarkKn1ght19 wrote:
And I disagree with about almost everything you are saying, which is fine, but don't tell me what "Halo fans" should want. That's foolish.

Players bring the topic of bloom up during every release cycle, and time after time I have to remind them why bloom has not seen a return to Halo since Reach. It has consequences on the pacing of Halo as well as its skill gap.

TheDarkKn1ght19 wrote:
And when you mention escape window, I think we have bigger fish to fry (sprint).

Bloom introduces the same exact problem that sprint does, just in a different way.

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7/12/2018

KogaGmente III

Marine - Gold

UnheardCARNAGE wrote:
KogaGmente III wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
KogaGmente III wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
Please, lets not even joke.

Rather than make accurate shots miss at random, lets just make aiming itself more difficult for once by toning down the AA and bullet magnetism.
I'd personally find that a bit to much, it's already really hard to aim in Halo. Why make it harder? Plus I looked at your stats on Halo 5, you haven't even played it, so how your judging it? You have on MCC, but that has Aim assistance.
Tone down is not the same as remove. A degree of auto aim will always be necessary for analogue stick based controls. I don't think it is that unreasonable to ask for at least OG CE levels of AA and bullet mag. We don't need Halo 2 swipe snipes, we don't need the Halo 5's sniper practically throwing heashots into your lap.

If aiming is difficult in games like Halo 5(Halo 3 has problems too) it is because the aiming system itself is bad.
I don't feel like the Halo 5 Sniper throws Headshots your way. I find that it's actually harder for me to use a sniper in Halo 5 more than any other Halo.
The H5 sniper is jokingly easy to use. The bullet magnetism is insane. You don’t even have to be aiming for the head to get the kill.

I would prefer that bloom did not make a return. Longer range encounters became a dice roll.

hate to burst both of ya'll bubbles but there is actual and factual recorded data on the sniper rifle. There is no Magnetism on the Sniper Rifle (Default)
Halo 5 | Sniper Rifles Analysis (By A0zolai)However Nor Fang does. But it's a weapon that's mainly in Warzone of Fiesta. So I don't know what to tell ya'll. Proof is there.

Edit: and I figured I better add, don't forget this weapon is HitScan not Projectile. Perhaps that's why it feels like your shots always land. Hit Scan is instantaneous while projectile hast to travel a distance over time. Halo 3 is an great example of projectile as most bullets were. Halo 5 uses mostly Hit Scan for the sniper unlike Halo 3.

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7/12/2018

TheDarkKn1ght19

Marine - Gold

TeeJaY ChArMs wrote:
TheDarkKn1ght19 wrote:
The inclusion of bloom in Halo Reach has been a point of heated discussion. Some like it and the challenge it presents, while others hate it because it adds a somewhat random element to the game.
Pacing your shots is hardly a challenge, though. The cadence of bloom can be learned pretty quickly, especially since it's visually shown on your reticle.

TheDarkKn1ght19 wrote:
My opinion on the whole matter may be somewhat biased because Halo Reach was my first and favorite Halo multiplayer experience. I have played through all other Halo multiplayers as well.
Well take a step back and try to look at the mechanic objectively.

TheDarkKn1ght19 wrote:
I like bloom. I like how it introduced an additional skill element and discouraged spamming.
That was Bungie's intention, but that's not how it played out. If you played Reach in its prime then you should know it was more favorable to spam shots in mid-to-close ranges, which introduced inconsistent, luck-based gun battles. The only time you were encouraged to pace your shot was at longer ranges.

TheDarkKn1ght19 wrote:
It can be random at times, yes, but since everyone deals with a little randomness I think it evens things out.
Yes, let's leave it to randomness to decide our gun battles, not our skill. I'll win 50% of the time and you'll win 50% of the time. Seems fair.

TheDarkKn1ght19 wrote:
Unlike others, I think bloom raises the skill gap. Spamming won't get you anywhere in Reach.
It doesn't. And also untrue. I'm beginning to wonder if you've actually played Reach. Spamming can be mathematically proven to be more beneficial than pacing, as tsassi went over in this post.
TheDarkKn1ght19 wrote:
Bloom also adds a sense of realism to a shooter needing it.
I don't care for realism in multiplayer.

TheDarkKn1ght19 wrote:
I find Halo 5 kill times to be way too fast (my personal opinion through 1000+ games), despite escapabilty, and spamming to be encouraged. I think that there needs to be something to discourage this behavior.
Not sure why you think this since H5's average kill times aren't really any faster than previous entries, at least not by any significant margin. Again, you can't "spam" in H5 if the optimal fire rate is the fastest fire rate.

TheDarkKn1ght19 wrote:
And I disagree with about almost everything you are saying, which is fine, but don't tell me what "Halo fans" should want. That's foolish.
Players bring the topic of bloom up during every release cycle, and time after time I have to remind them why bloom has not seen a return to Halo since Reach. It has consequences on the pacing of Halo as well as its skill gap.

TheDarkKn1ght19 wrote:
And when you mention escape window, I think we have bigger fish to fry (sprint).
Bloom introduces the same exact problem that sprint does, just in a different way.

Well thanks for sharing was tsassi said. Makes sense. There are some good points there. Mathematically it seems like bloom is doing the opposite of what it is supposed to do. Whether that translates into actual gameplay all of the time I'm not sure.

But if the pros don't pace shots he's got a point. But bloom definitely plays a role in long-range gun battles, which you alluded to.

Maybe a better and less random recoil effect can be introduced in Halo Infinite that players are more supportive of.

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OP 7/12/2018

OxDaV

Recruit - Onyx

Hitscan weopon s in halo 5 are not as fun as in halo 2.Halo 2 had hitscan but no abilities or sprint which I didn't mind.I prefer halo 2 there was something unique to it.

Halo 3 again made something unique ,projectile weopons made it different.You can on the other side of the map slightly relax ,because you won't get killed across the map that much.Again they removed hitscan.Personal y my favorite halo game.

Halo reach didn't bring back, it brought in "Bloom" which again like h3 made long engagements on the map extremely difficult. Try killing somebody on top of the spire,huh?
But bloom I believe was introduced to counter abilities and sprint.which it did perfectly.

People say reach bloom was luck its really not. One guy paces his shots,the other guy presses the trigger one time to fast--he lost I think that's not luck that's skill.
(Halo reach and halo 3 made long engagements difficult which was difficult and rewarding)

Now halo 5 again hitscan,OK, but hitscan with abilities and sprint.There something wrong here .
It doesn't work they didn't make a cool down for spammers,like reach or halo 3.

Sprint and abilities ruined halo.(except reach that was brilliant because it was unique, no halo have done this)

Each halo adds something new, creates a new way of encounter s personally I don't care if they bring back bloom ,hitscan or projectile .Just make a cool down for weopons if you pull the trigger 2 times fast.

Halo 5 magnetism is good but the weopons shoot too fast .Magnum fires way to fast 3 seconds your dead because of a spammer across the map.
(Which is the stupidist thing ever)

Make ttk longer ,halo 5 is just isn't excited all you do is aim and spam,aim and spam.Nobody uses the br ,just magnum 'cause you shot 4-5 times his dead ,dead.

So final words I don't care just make weopons slow down after firing,or overheat, or bloom , or projectile. And if hitscan returns,IF HITSCAN RETURN S.

NO MORE SPRINT, NO MORE ABILITIES like the facts show this is the reason why halo is another generic shooter not hitscan or no hitscan

If halo infinite has sprint again as a base mechanics with abilities, damn

Halo infinite with no abilities and sprint ....is halo.

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7/12/2018

Golden Ranger

ODST - Iron

I would rather my aim vs my opponents aim be the determining factor in a gun fight, not who can get lucky from the random bloom

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7/12/2018

skewer647

Marine - Iron

Bloom was horrible it ruined gunfights. What’s next asking for armor Locke back?

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7/12/2018

KogaGmente III

Marine - Gold

OxDaV wrote:
Hitscan weopon s in halo 5 are not as fun as in halo 2.Halo 2 had hitscan but no abilities or sprint which I didn't mind.I prefer halo 2 there was something unique to it.

I could prob agree here. Hit Scan does provide some problems when it comes to fast gameplay.
However, at the same time I hate projectile.
My thing with Hit Scan is if the use it they need to have no magnetism on any weapon.
However with Projectile perhaps. But If I remember correctly in Halo 5 only a few weapons have Hit Scan. (Sniper Rifle, Spartan Laser, Magnum, DMR)
However if you slow footage enough you can see other weapons have a traveling distance. Those 4 I listed are the best example of Instantaneous shots which is Hit Scan.

Still I have to agree though Halo 2 did an it decently. Though I still have some if's about it. Just it's not major.

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7/12/2018

Naqser

ODST - Onyx

OxDaV wrote:
But bloom I believe was introduced to counter abilities and sprint.which it did perfectly.

You "believe" something was implemented for a specific purpose, and that thing you "believe", definately works.

So, how does a mechanic which tries to encourage players to use a prolonged TTK over the optimal TTK, counter Armor Abilities?

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