Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

Can Halo: Infinite learn from DOOM?

OP THI5 GUYY

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I had to post this out of curiosity....

So DOOM has become increasingly popular again due to the success of DOOM (2016) which was considered a “spiritual reboot” for the series like Halo: Infinite is considered a “spiritual reboot”. After DOOM 3 which was heavily criticized by fans it seems that id Software is bringing the franchise back by going back to its roots from DOOM 1 & 2 while also modernizing by building on what the series was good at. Halo (another classic game franchise) has had its fair share of criticism over the last few years, especially since Halo 4 & Halo 5 for getting away from what halo was.

Im not asking which game is the better game. I love both games (Halo will always be #1) but I’m asking what Halo: Infinite can do do recapture the classic Halo gameplay and feel, but also keeping it modern without copying other games (like they did with H4 & H5)

your thoughts....
To tread well-worn ground, the change in artstyle and map design for 4/5 is one of the major factors preventing me from associating them with the other titles.
It's always felt like a change just for the sake of having a change; a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist.
As a result, every minute I spent playing 4 was diluted by the niggling thought of 'this is Halo, but this isn't Halo'.
It may seem ridiculous that such a superficial gripe made me drop my favourite series of 18 years, but it did; I played through Halo 4 once when it released then proceeded to go on a several-year hiatus.
While I understand that 343 as a different studio would want to leave their own mark, you can only change so much before it starts to feel like a different series entirely.

For the aforementioned reason, I really hope that Infinite will be returning to a more classic artstyle, as its trailers seem to indicate. It's been 9 years since I've felt a Halo title could reliably carry the mantle and while my pessimistic brain has many doubts about Infinite doing so, I hope I'm proven wrong.
One thing that always sticks out to me with how id developed DOOM was their dedication to push-forward combat. The devs realized that Doom 1 and 2 were all about arenas with tons of demons and this super soldier taking them all on. But, players always had to run around after a fight and collect health/ammo. Not a bad thing in itself, but the focus was not always all action all the time. The fix? Farm demons for resources. That focused the game more on combat and made the action so much more enjoyable. You had to fight smart and aggressive otherwise you lost. I think part of 343i’s desire to have a spiritual reboot is because of id and the success of DOOM in addition to fan backlash.

For Halo, there have been things that have set it apart from other franchises. The biggest thing for me here is how enemies were designed to require quick thinking on the fly and sustained skill with your toolbox, as opposed to something like CoD where the basic requirement is super fast reflexes. No hate there, just illustrating an example.

Halo 4 and 5’s enemy AI flat out sucks. Elites, for example, do like 4 things and I know exactly when they’ll do what. Compare that to CE where I’ll still manage to learn from an encounter I don’t win. To me, that high TTK and focus on aiming skill rather than arbitrary variables (looking at you, post-tuning H5BR) while fighting ”intelligent” enemies is what made Halo compelling. Hell, I think Vanguard (developers of Spartan Assault and Strike) did a better job with the enemy AI than 343i!

There are always ways to improve on the core of a game and that’s what will make Halo feel like the old games again. They seem to have the art finally figured out, so that’s a good start. I’ll leave it to the devs to figure out the rest as they’re the ones getting paid to do so! Hopefully they get the gameplay sorted out as well.
What Halo has to do (but they probably won't) to get back to it's roots.... Take H2A gameplay and art style and then add equipment as map pick ups (bubble shield, re-gen, power drain maybe some new ones like limited use jet pack) all the stuff that made Halo unique and awesome back in the day. Bring back some of the cool weapons like flamethrower and brute shot. The blueprint for a great Halo game has always been there but instead of going back to Halo roots they continued down the Reach path with loadouts, sprint and the "modern mechanics".... Not to say that I didn't enjoy those games but the OG formula was better. I have been loving the OG formula, especially H2A, a hella lot. Going to be interesting to see what direction they go in Infinite.
To tread well-worn ground, the change in artstyle and map design for 4/5 is one of the major factors preventing me from associating them with the rest.
It's always felt like a change just for the sake of having a change; a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist.
As a result, every minute I spent playing 4 was diluted by the niggling thought of 'this is Halo, but this isn't Halo'.It may seem ridiculous that such a superficial gripe made me drop my favourite series of 18 years, but it did; I played through Halo 4 once when it released and proceeded to go on a several-year hiatus.
While I understand that 343 as a different studio would want to leave their own mark, you can only change so much before it starts to feel like a different series entirely.

For the aforementioned reason, I really hope that Infinite will be returning to a more classic artstyle, as its trailers seem to indicate. It's been 9 years since I've felt a Halo title could reliably carry the mantle and while my pessimistic brain has many doubts about Infinite doing so, I hope I'm proven wrong.
I agree 100%. Halo 4 & 5 don’t even feel like the same video game franchise as Reach and anything that came before them. The gameplay, the art, the characters, the world, all felt out of place to me when comparing the new Halo games to the older ones.

I brought up DOOM like I said not to compare it, but rather discuss what they need to do to achieve a similar result. I’m not sure how they are going to save the story from what how bad Halo 5 was or how they can even save Cortana’s Character.

The multiplayer on the other hand was infected by useless micro transactions, weapon skins that ultimately did nothing for the game and a dumbed down version of armor customization.

The gunplay felt more like a Destiny / CoD rip-off rather than a Halo game. The movement was too much like other games with the dashing and ground pound crap. Clamber and sprint.....I don’t need them but I don’t hate them either...I’m not sure where I stand on either one of those.

Reach I felt was a perfect balance. I don’t like the loadout system in Reach but but it wasn’t over the top like it was in Halo 4 so it’s doesn’t bother me THAT much.
The whole reboot thing It feels like marketing hyperbole to me.
It's spititual reboot season in the AAA space ATM cod modern warfare ,bf5, doom 2016 halo infinite to name a few
it was remaster season only a few years ago Cod 4 modern warfare , halo mcc ,halo CE, Gears of war ultimate
prior to that it was advanced movement season cod advanced warfare/infinite warfare/black ops 3 ,halo reach,/4 /guardians titanfall 2
my personal favorite loot box /micro transaction/battle pass season "all of them "
I'm pretty sure this trend won't be ending any time soon .

the overiding theme here is the AAA industry really aren't being that original at all , they all follow each other in gaming cycles .
While the reboot is the in thing ATM at least each title seems to be trying to recapture its own individual formula that made them successful in the first place again . Which is natural progression after the remaster things been done to death and advanced mobility has run its course

doom gets points in my book for the most original and engaging way it's gone about its business in its reboot/combat formula
it seems to be setting rather than following the trends and thus far very minimal micro transactions as well .
Not sure. Doom 16 was good but it wasn't perfect...it removed 4 player coop and the multiplayer was ok but wasn't as good as classic Doom multiplayer, the best part is no micro-transactions but the forced online was annoying for multiplayer. What Infinite needs to do is go back to their roots but they also need to know what made those classic Halo games so great but I'm afraid MT will hurt Infinite so I'm sort of mixed about if Infinite will get back on track. I feel like ID Software kind of forget that Doom wasn't just about single player but a good mix of both single/vs/coop and finding the right balance.
I think Halo is already on its way to a spiritual reboot with the classic art design and the appearance of the open world. Based on the trailers it looks like classic Halo. I'm hyped for Halo: Infinite because it seems like 343 has listened to the fans.
I actually suspect that Halo 6 is going to be something like Mass Effect but in first person. From the trailer of the engine and the E3 trailer, it looks like the art style is going back. That's nice, but I also don't mind experimentation with Halo (as long as its done right) one step at a time and then using feedback to fuel further experimentation even if it means that sometimes we get things like sprint or that boombox armour (both of which I doubt will make a return in H:I)
The Halo roots are big maps full of clever aliens that are fun to kill held together by a strong and engaging narrative. If they can keep this but present it in new and interesting ways - I'm in.
The artstyle is down, now its about smart AI. What captured me was the variable is enemy A . I can always predict what the enemy is going to do now. There's simple AI. In halo 3 if you were behind cover an elite would try to flank you. Now they just fire at you while you sit behind cover. Its not fun.

I like halo 5 but the AI is lame and the artstyle is weird
We have master chief confirmed as the main character (I cut halo 5 slack in the campaign because of the forced rewrite of the campaign so late into production) but I think so far from the little we seen it looks promising story wise.

Theres a new approach to marketing. Halo 5 had good marketing and I think the marketing correlated to the original story. Not what we got.

Marketing is about hope which is good Because we hope for a good story 😂

After that id say add replay value (MT aren't a deal breaker if anything can be earned besides achievement armor etc ) but being able to revisit the same levels and get a different thrill every time you play a map of campaign mission is grear
I think Halo Infinite could a lot from most classic shooter games. Doom 2016 did a great job of keeping that spirit alive.
To tread well-worn ground, the change in artstyle and map design for 4/5 is one of the major factors preventing me from associating them with the other titles.
It's always felt like a change just for the sake of having a change; a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist.
As a result, every minute I spent playing 4 was diluted by the niggling thought of 'this is Halo, but this isn't Halo'.It may seem ridiculous that such a superficial gripe made me drop my favourite series of 18 years, but it did; I played through Halo 4 once when it released then proceeded to go on a several-year hiatus.
While I understand that 343 as a different studio would want to leave their own mark, you can only change so much before it starts to feel like a different series entirely.

For the aforementioned reason, I really hope that Infinite will be returning to a more classic artstyle, as its trailers seem to indicate. It's been 9 years since I've felt a Halo title could reliably carry the mantle and while my pessimistic brain has many doubts about Infinite doing so, I hope I'm proven wrong.
I couldn't agree more with this, while i was reading this whole thread I was wondering if 343 is reading this, maybe there's a chance for Halo Infinite, well, if they take the feedback of the community. I been playing halo since 2002 and i can say that H4 and H5 sucked in the all extension of the word. The art sucked, the AI sucked, the story sucked, the gameplay HYPERSUCKED (But i have to say that H4 history is pretty damn engaging) I miss the old good days of halo, even today i still playing the campaigns of all Halo's, except for h4, h5, and the RTS ones. C'mon even HW2 did great with the art.
This is my first reply ever, and I know that I didn't say anything new that was ever been said before, but if the complains are repeating along all the community is because something is really wrong. Hope 343 do great with this new title or the old halo community will be dead for good.
I think 343i can look at why people tend to overwhelmingly adore DOOM '16 and implement some of the same ideas/attitude into what they're doing with Infinite, sure.

DOOM' 16 really works for me because it modernized and updates the feel of the classic DOOM experience without changing it in a way that makes it feel fundamentally different. DOOM has always been about soaring around immersive hellscapes at breakneck speed, rotating through an insane personal armory that is constantly at your disposal and dispatching enemies you come across with maximum efficiency and style (DOOM 3 is the outlier for the series in this regard, but everything else so far which I've played has accorded very well to this formula).

DOOM 16 changes it up in that it adds modern elements like sprinting and jumping/ledge grabbing in, but it doesn't feel like a betrayal to the classic formula. The fast and intenze pacing of the gameplay is extraordinarily intact, so battling through the modern DOOM feels very accordant to the classic experience. It's a very faithful modern adaptation to why people loved playing the old games.

Even if you just look at pacing, then, Halo's not taken the same approach to modernizing its classic formula. I loved Halo: Reach from the get-go, but Sprint and Armor Abilities in general messed with the more methodical pacing present in Halo 1-3, and modernization attempts in Halo 4 and 5 have only served to further divide the pacing of gameplay in both PvE and PvP gameplay. Beyond the pace of play, though, there are also considerations like the complexity of the sandbox to take into consideration. In classic Halo, there was a simple, niche-oriented sandbox with variation typically centered around role (Sharpshooting, Spray and Pray, noob tube etc) and then delinieated by faction (Human and Covenant alternatives in classic Halo) to add a bit more variety.

Modern Halo's Sandbox feels overwhelming in comparison, which further distances the feeling of "playing Halo" as originally experienced in the original trilogy. DOOM gets away with it because the classic formula established a large weapon wheel (although the DOOM usable weapon sandbox isn't even as complicated as Halo's has become).

Halo wasn't about any of this originally. It was a medium-paced game with a limited, function over form weapons sandbox and moderate player mobility and speed. That's the formula that made Halo hyper-relevant and the leader of innovation in the console FPS market in its prime. And it's the formula that Bungie stopped fully endorsing with Halo: Reach, and which 343i hasn't gone back to with 4-5.

People won't regard Infinite with the same reverence as they do DOOM '16 unless 343i can bring back some of that Halo feel. They may be able to make a great new feeling game of their own, but it won't be treated as a return-to-form in the sense that DOOM is unless it reclaims and modernizes without compromise that Halo 1-3 sense of pacing and simple to pick up but difficult to master gameplay.
THI5 GUYY wrote:
I had to post this out of curiosity....

So DOOM has become increasingly popular again due to the success of DOOM (2016) which was considered a “spiritual reboot” for the series like Halo: Infinite is considered a “spiritual reboot”. After DOOM 3 which was heavily criticized by fans it seems that id Software is bringing the franchise back by going back to its roots from DOOM 1 & 2 while also modernizing by building on what the series was good at. Halo (another classic game franchise) has had its fair share of criticism over the last few years, especially since Halo 4 & Halo 5 for getting away from what halo was.

Im not asking which game is the better game. I love both games (Halo will always be #1) but I’m asking what Halo: Infinite can do do recapture the classic Halo gameplay and feel, but also keeping it modern without copying other games (like they did with H4 & H5)

your thoughts....
Yes it can. Halo lost too much as it evolved and added things it didn't need to imo. The removal of blood and gore, split screen, playable elites, not being able to move at full speed and shoot, the inclusion of abilities etc. DOOM 2016 remained a DOOM game. It was a good way to re-ignite the old man of shooters imo.

In fact, it's been a great generation for me personally, DOOM Eternal on the way and I've had DOOM 2016, Wolfenstein Old School / New Order / Colossus, all good and true to the franchise they represent imo. Hope Halo Infinite is a good Halo too.
I’m not so sure, Doom Eternal is ditching it’s traditional Multiplayer because they say it fell flat

Also off topic question, is Doom 2016’s Multiplayer have some players or is it completely dead?
I’m not so sure, Doom Eternal is ditching it’s traditional Multiplayer because they say it fell flat

Also off topic question, is Doom 2016’s Multiplayer have some players or is it completely dead?
I don't think we're discussing the inclusion of multiplayer, it's about DOOM 2016 being a good example of and old game being true to it's roots, but relevant today, and can Halo Infinite learn from that ? The multiplayer didn't fall flat, but some fans didn't like the loadouts. It was ok multiplayer, but it was and is an excellent campaign that is DOOM to it's core.

Off topic, I can easily find a game here in the U.K, it might be different for others. However, I just tried before posting and I got a game of TDM in less than 40 seconds. It's even quicker on weekends, but it's all shotgun, super shotgun and rockets for the most part lol.
eviltedi wrote:
I’m not so sure, Doom Eternal is ditching it’s traditional Multiplayer because they say it fell flat

Also off topic question, is Doom 2016’s Multiplayer have some players or is it completely dead?
I don't think we're discussing the inclusion of multiplayer, it's about DOOM 2016 being a good example of and old game being true to it's roots, but relevant today, and can Halo Infinite learn from that ? The multiplayer didn't fall flat, but some fans didn't like the loadouts. It was ok multiplayer, but it was and is an excellent campaign that is DOOM to it's core.

Off topic, I can easily find a game here in the U.K, it might be different for others. However, I just tried before posting and I got a game of TDM in less than 40 seconds. It's even quicker on weekends, but it's all shotgun, super shotgun and rockets for the most part lol.
Doom 2016 mp felt a little halo-Esk to me , maybe because of certain affinity's involvement , I can't quite put my finger on it as I don't play the mp often enough to really analyse it , but certainly more halo-Esk than it is doom- Esk ,
halo 5 , call of duty infinite titanfall 2 and even bf5 could all pass as the same game as far as the feel movement systems .
eviltedi wrote:
I’m not so sure, Doom Eternal is ditching it’s traditional Multiplayer because they say it fell flat

Also off topic question, is Doom 2016’s Multiplayer have some players or is it completely dead?
I don't think we're discussing the inclusion of multiplayer, it's about DOOM 2016 being a good example of and old game being true to it's roots, but relevant today, and can Halo Infinite learn from that ? The multiplayer didn't fall flat, but some fans didn't like the loadouts. It was ok multiplayer, but it was and is an excellent campaign that is DOOM to it's core.

Off topic, I can easily find a game here in the U.K, it might be different for others. However, I just tried before posting and I got a game of TDM in less than 40 seconds. It's even quicker on weekends, but it's all shotgun, super shotgun and rockets for the most part lol.
Doom 2016 mp felt a little halo-Esk to me , maybe because of certain affinity's involvement , I can't quite put my finger on it as I don't play the mp often enough to really analyse it , but certainly more halo-Esk than it is doom- Esk ,
halo 5 , call of duty infinite titanfall 2 and even bf5 could all pass as the same game as far as the feel movement systems .
Haloesque in what way ? Halo is slower, no insta kills, no gore, no blood, no full customisation, ie head, torso, left and right arms, left and right legs, base armour, no health pick ups, no armour pick ups, there's no sprint mechanic in DOOM, it's run and gun, you have full colour customisation to guns and armour etc. They're not comparable imo, DOOM 2016 is DOOM mulitplayer, apart from the loadouts.

The same goes for the campaign, it's classic DOOM in a new title, something I hope Halo Infinite can learn from.
eviltedi wrote:
eviltedi wrote:
I’m not so sure, Doom Eternal is ditching it’s traditional Multiplayer because they say it fell flat

Also off topic question, is Doom 2016’s Multiplayer have some players or is it completely dead?
I don't think we're discussing the inclusion of multiplayer, it's about DOOM 2016 being a good example of and old game being true to it's roots, but relevant today, and can Halo Infinite learn from that ? The multiplayer didn't fall flat, but some fans didn't like the loadouts. It was ok multiplayer, but it was and is an excellent campaign that is DOOM to it's core.

Off topic, I can easily find a game here in the U.K, it might be different for others. However, I just tried before posting and I got a game of TDM in less than 40 seconds. It's even quicker on weekends, but it's all shotgun, super shotgun and rockets for the most part lol.
Doom 2016 mp felt a little halo-Esk to me , maybe because of certain affinity's involvement , I can't quite put my finger on it as I don't play the mp often enough to really analyse it , but certainly more halo-Esk than it is doom- Esk ,
halo 5 , call of duty infinite titanfall 2 and even bf5 could all pass as the same game as far as the feel movement systems .
Haloesque in what way ? Halo is slower, no insta kills, no gore, no blood, no full customisation, ie head, torso, left and right arms, left and right legs, base armour, no health pick ups, no armour pick ups, there's no sprint mechanic in DOOM, it's run and gun, you have full colour customisation to guns and armour etc. They're not comparable imo, DOOM 2016 is DOOM mulitplayer, apart from the loadouts.

The same goes for the campaign, it's classic DOOM in a new title, something I hope Halo Infinite can learn from.
My comment is only in reference to the multi player component of doom 2016
I understand the game mechanics and combat loop your referring to but I still get a strong halo vibe from it , I'd need to spend a lot more time on it to articulate it a more coherent manner ( I'm not that's the only one who thinks this btw a few content creators with halo backgrounds have said similar things ) customisation isn't even a relevant factor in gaming to me at all ,
doom multi player doesn't feel much like the doom single mode at all to me ( even the devs stated this more than a few times ) hence the new change up for doom eternal mp with battle mode
eviltedi wrote:
eviltedi wrote:
I’m not so sure, Doom Eternal is ditching it’s traditional Multiplayer because they say it fell flat

Also off topic question, is Doom 2016’s Multiplayer have some players or is it completely dead?
I don't think we're discussing the inclusion of multiplayer, it's about DOOM 2016 being a good example of and old game being true to it's roots, but relevant today, and can Halo Infinite learn from that ? The multiplayer didn't fall flat, but some fans didn't like the loadouts. It was ok multiplayer, but it was and is an excellent campaign that is DOOM to it's core.

Off topic, I can easily find a game here in the U.K, it might be different for others. However, I just tried before posting and I got a game of TDM in less than 40 seconds. It's even quicker on weekends, but it's all shotgun, super shotgun and rockets for the most part lol.
Doom 2016 mp felt a little halo-Esk to me , maybe because of certain affinity's involvement , I can't quite put my finger on it as I don't play the mp often enough to really analyse it , but certainly more halo-Esk than it is doom- Esk ,
halo 5 , call of duty infinite titanfall 2 and even bf5 could all pass as the same game as far as the feel movement systems .
Haloesque in what way ? Halo is slower, no insta kills, no gore, no blood, no full customisation, ie head, torso, left and right arms, left and right legs, base armour, no health pick ups, no armour pick ups, there's no sprint mechanic in DOOM, it's run and gun, you have full colour customisation to guns and armour etc. They're not comparable imo, DOOM 2016 is DOOM mulitplayer, apart from the loadouts.

The same goes for the campaign, it's classic DOOM in a new title, something I hope Halo Infinite can learn from.
My comment is only in reference to the multi player component of doom 2016
I understand the game mechanics and combat loop your referring to but I still get a strong halo vibe from it , I'd need to spend a lot more time on it to articulate it a more coherent manner ( I'm not that's the only one who thinks this btw a few content creators with halo backgrounds have said similar things ) customisation isn't even a relevant factor in gaming to me at all ,
doom multi player doesn't feel much like the doom single mode at all to me ( even the devs stated this more than a few times ) hence the new change up for doom eternal mp with battle mode
Each to their own. However I see nothing Haloesque about it. I still think it's true to DOOM's roots and I think Halo Infinite can learn, or take inspiration from it.
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