Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

Classic Gameplay is Returning and Here's Why...

OP TheDarkKn1ght19

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The answer is simple: 343 is playtesting a new gameplay style in the Mythic Arena and Mythic Rumble playlists in Halo 5. They are able to gather info and feedback without even doing a private beta; pretty ingenious if you ask me.

Curious what others think. Is this just a Halo 5 gimmick, or a sign of things to come?

My best guess: There will be both "Mythic" and "Halo 5" game styles in Infinite, to make everyone happy. Each style will have its own set of maps as well.
I don't believe there will be two subsets of Infinite multiplayer; that's asking for trouble in my opinion. Ever since enhanced mobility mechanics and armor abilities broke onto the scene in Reach this has been a popular answer to giving both classic and modern players what they want.

In Reach, Sprint was the only enhanced mobility mechanic, and it was an armor ability. It was super easy to exclude AA's from loadouts in any game type, and then you were left with a very classic feel. There were playlists that went classic (no AA's) and playlists that didn't (almost all of them). Providing the option wasn't enough then, and I believe it still wouldn't be enough today.

Your points about testing a player base response to a more classic feel via H5 playlists isn't bad at all, though. I would just expect that if it is true, it's only supporting the idea that Infinite is notching down the enhanced mobility and Spartan/Armor Abilities.

I really do believe Infinite needs to pick its poison and really go for it in terms of classic vs modern mechanics. This game needs an identity of its own. That might mean something that feels more classic or modern, but it should feel unique. People always talk about Classic Halo like Halo CE-Halo 3 played identically. Totally untrue, even though all three of them felt very concordant with each other, they all felt unique.
The answer is simple: 343 is playtesting a new gameplay style in the Mythic Arena and Mythic Rumble playlists in Halo 5. They are able to gather info and feedback without even doing a private beta; pretty ingenious if you ask me.

Curious what others think. Is this just a Halo 5 gimmick, or a sign of things to come?

My best guess: There will be both "Mythic" and "Halo 5" game styles in Infinite, to make everyone happy. Each style will have its own set of maps as well.
And then you end up with a split playerbase, split balancing, and split resources on the dev team. No thanks, pick one and commit to it.
I also don't think 343 would ever ship a game with classic gameplay, all the zoomers that loved Halo 4 and 5 would throw a hissy fit if they did.
They feel like they need to be able to do a cirque du soleil act anytime they move.

Expect a more classic art style with more of the same from Halo 4 and 5 gameplay wise.
I would prefer the gameplay to be similar to as it is in the Mythic playlists, but it needs to be one or the other. Both just makes a mess of things, and trying to satisfy everyone completely never works out. Also, designing and creating two lots of maps would be far too intensive, and would result in half the number of maps for each gameplay type. Not to mention weapon balancing, and everything else.

Mythic-like gameplay is the compromise between classic and non-classic gameplay, so would seem to be the best option to go for to satisfy the greatest number of players. It would be odd to introduce this new gameplay to Halo 5 at this stage, and then not somehow be using it as a test bed for Infinite.
What's different about the Mythic Playlist? Curious now gonna go try it out even with the lag across the Pacific ocean.
Thorulfr wrote:
What's different about the Mythic Playlist? Curious now gonna go try it out even with the lag across the Pacific ocean.
It’s up now on halo 5 if you want to try it. Currently it's only FFA. It is Halo 5 without Sprint, slide, clamber, Spartan charge, and groundpound. You have thrusters and stabilizers....that's it. The mythic game type currently has its own maps made for it so it feels appropriate for the abilities given. I think it plays well feeling more classic than modern. I for sure want a higher base movement speed than the one used in it. I also would like to see slide make it in without having to use Sprint. Idk about clamber
Thorulfr wrote:
What's different about the Mythic Playlist? Curious now gonna go try it out even with the lag across the Pacific ocean.
If I remember correctly, ground pound, Spartan charge and sprint are removed. I think clamber us too...I don't recall. Thrusters are in, hovering,the base movement speed has been increased as well as the jump height. Match starts are H2BR.

I don't think I missed anything... I quite like the settings but most of the maps are meh in my opinion. Unfortunately the weapons are based for Halo 5 gameplay (obviously) so I don't think it works too well, but you can definitely get the gist of it. The H2BR for example is just way too forgiving and OP in my opinion for these settings. I hope Infinite is more along the lines of the mythic playlist, with maybe trying a double jump too. Would like to see how that plays.

I definitely recommend checking out the playlist.

The answer is simple: 343 is playtesting a new gameplay style in the Mythic Arena and Mythic Rumble playlists in Halo 5. They are able to gather info and feedback without even doing a private beta; pretty ingenious if you ask me.

Curious what others think. Is this just a Halo 5 gimmick, or a sign of things to come?

My best guess: There will be both "Mythic" and "Halo 5" game styles in Infinite, to make everyone happy. Each style will have its own set of maps as well.
343I might be doing this to see how things play and such, but they have to know that it won't be that popular as the people who would play it, most have left (possibly the franchise even) a long time.

I do think it could definitely be a sign of things to come in the future.

I DEFINITELY don't want both play styles in the game. I think that would be disastrous. Each style would have to have there own maps, weapons tune for it and so on. It would be insane! And ultimately lead to a trainwreck of a game I think.
Thorulfr wrote:
What's different about the Mythic Playlist? Curious now gonna go try it out even with the lag across the Pacific ocean.
It’s up now on halo 5 if you want to try it. Currently it's only FFA. It is Halo 5 without Sprint, slide, clamber, Spartan charge, and groundpound. You have thrusters and stabilizers....that's it. The mythic game type currently has its own maps made for it so it feels appropriate for the abilities given. I think it plays well feeling more classic than modern. I for sure want a higher base movement speed than the one used in it. I also would like to see slide make it in without having to use Sprint. Idk about clamber
That sounds ridiculously good! Gonna give it a crack.
Thorulfr wrote:
What's different about the Mythic Playlist? Curious now gonna go try it out even with the lag across the Pacific ocean.
If I remember correctly, ground pound, Spartan charge and sprint are removed. I think clamber us too...I don't recall. Thrusters are in, hovering,the base movement speed has been increased as well as the jump height. Match starts are H2BR.

I don't think I missed anything... I quite like the settings but most of the maps are meh in my opinion. Unfortunately the weapons are based for Halo 5 gameplay (obviously) so I don't think it works too well, but you can definitely get the gist of it. The H2BR for example is just way too forgiving and OP in my opinion for these settings. I hope Infinite is more along the lines of the mythic playlist, with maybe trying a double jump too. Would like to see how that plays.

I definitely recommend checking out the playlist.

The answer is simple: 343 is playtesting a new gameplay style in the Mythic Arena and Mythic Rumble playlists in Halo 5. They are able to gather info and feedback without even doing a private beta; pretty ingenious if you ask me.

Curious what others think. Is this just a Halo 5 gimmick, or a sign of things to come?

My best guess: There will be both "Mythic" and "Halo 5" game styles in Infinite, to make everyone happy. Each style will have its own set of maps as well.
343I might be doing this to see how things play and such, but they have to know that it won't be that popular as the people who would play it, most have left (possibly the franchise even) a long time.

I do think it could definitely be a sign of things to come in the future.

I DEFINITELY don't want both play styles in the game. I think that would be disastrous. Each style would have to have there own maps, weapons tune for it and so on. It would be insane! And ultimately lead to a trainwreck of a game I think.
Yeah agreed - perfect one style rather than segment the player base further, there are already way too many playlists and modes of play tbh. Sounds like classic but with Thrust might be the go for Infinite multiplayer? I'd be all aboard for that.
Just watching some gameplay now, looks fantastic even though the H2BR is a bit brutal in some scenarios. But that seems to be a legacy of the sandbox they probably can't adjust for the playlist (as it would apply to all game modes).
Classic Purists have to be happy with this. I know some people won't want to compromise even one bit but this is like a 90% compromise. Surely this is something to get behind from both camps.
I really hope your right. We need classic gameplay back. But I really dont think they will remove all spartan abilities.
The answer is simple: 343 is playtesting a new gameplay style in the Mythic Arena and Mythic Rumble playlists in Halo 5. They are able to gather info and feedback without even doing a private beta; pretty ingenious if you ask me.

Curious what others think. Is this just a Halo 5 gimmick, or a sign of things to come?

My best guess: There will be both "Mythic" and "Halo 5" game styles in Infinite, to make everyone happy. Each style will have its own set of maps as well.
Two styles of gameplay would be cool, but it would mean level designers would have to create twice as many maps, which would be tough. Maybe they could leave some of the map designs up to forgers, like in some of the Halo 3 MLG maps, but there would also be balancing issues with bullet magnetism if you can run in one mode but not the other. Hopefully there is a beta so we can test it all!
I'm hoping that's what they're doing because I love mythic. What's mythic rumble? I've only tried arena, didn't know there was a rumble.
I suppose you can call me an H5 zoomer, I grew up playing H3 and it was fun for it's time don't get me wrong. I just feel like games today have evolved and there's constantly a new generation of players coming in that need to be accounted for.

For instance, I know everyone loves 'Fortnite' but I think it can be used to benchmark examples, it's probably for three or 4 years running the most popular game in the world and its built almost entirely on the idea of fast twitch movement mechanics. It has an insane skill ceiling that pretty much lead to them implementing skill based matchmaking in social to prevent new players from getting stomped which hasn't slowed the game down at all. Apex Legends is another example of a fast twitch movement mechanic game with another high skill ceiling. COD, yes has fast twitch movement, but to me doesn't present the same skill ceiling when you can kill a player faster than they can turn around.

I guess what I'm getting at is when I, for instance, go back and play H3 on MCC, or Mythic in H5- I can't help but feel how methodical and slow paced it is. It's weird that 10 years ago H3 was a game I loved to play but I truly think today's game evolution has pushed game mechanics faster and faster, and kids love it. Heck I even love it too- I just have to do thumb exercises daily to keep up with the younger generation.

So for the argument on why isn't H5 more popular I think stems from a host of different reasons; namely the fact it's only on 1 platform. Twitch viewers and you-tubers love to watch people on PC, second It had a very terrible launch although you can look at a game like SWBII as an example for a rebound on a bad launch. Third, it took them darn near 3 years to get HCS mechanics narrowed down which is farrrr to long to keep engagement going. Spartan charge was very poorly implemented in H5, Ground pound could've also been implemented differently. Nobody plays BTB anymore because, well- the battle-rifle is straight up garbage and lends itself more as a pea shooter than an actual weapon.

So, essentially, H5 could still be thriving (in my opinion) if 343 didn't keep shooting themselves in the foot with on the cuff changes. What they lacked was a 4 or 5 year vision from the onset. So at least one thing I think everyone can agree on is Infinite needs to have a solid foundation that doesn't involve drastic changes 2 or 3 years down the road and has a vision that can be executed to keep engagement high. I suppose we'll see what happens.

Finally, I agree that Infinite can't have both classic and modern game-play. That is definitely the opposite approach to keep engagement high.
As much as I would love for classic gameplay to return, I would hardly consider a few playlists as confirmation. Hopefully we will get some official info soon. Better yet, maybe we will get to actually play test the flights before too much longer
My best guess: There will be both "Mythic" and "Halo 5" game styles in Infinite, to make everyone happy. Each style will have its own set of maps as well.
I would question how a game studio that would make this kind of decision ever came to be, let alone got the approval and budget to make a game.
I don't believe for one second that it is possible to design a Halo game's multiplayer with both "classic" and "modern" rule sets and maintain a high quality overall.

Sprint and other abilities interact with and affect too many fundamental aspects of the game's design. It's why they are so divisive. It would literally be the same as designing two different games. They'll pick one and go with it.

And I don't think they'll abandon sprint and abilities. I think they're too stubborn and/or arrogant to admit that the entire gameplay design philosophy post-Halo 3 was a mistake, and I think they'll continue to iterate on what was there in Halo 5. I also think that if you get a bunch of 15 year old focus testers in a room and give them an FPS without sprint, they complain that it's slow and they prefer sprint, and 343 listens to its focus test groups far more than it does old core players. They're on record as saying they envision MCC as being the place for classic Halo, and I think MCC is the best old school Halo fans will ever get.
Reneggade wrote:
I suppose you can call me an H5 zoomer, I grew up playing H3 and it was fun for it's time don't get me wrong. I just feel like games today have evolved and there's constantly a new generation of players coming in that need to be accounted for.

For instance, I know everyone loves 'Fortnite' but I think it can be used to benchmark examples, it's probably for three or 4 years running the most popular game in the world and its built almost entirely on the idea of fast twitch movement mechanics. It has an insane skill ceiling that pretty much lead to them implementing skill based matchmaking in social to prevent new players from getting stomped which hasn't slowed the game down at all. Apex Legends is another example of a fast twitch movement mechanic game with another high skill ceiling. COD, yes has fast twitch movement, but to me doesn't present the same skill ceiling when you can kill a player faster than they can turn around.

I guess what I'm getting at is when I, for instance, go back and play H3 on MCC, or Mythic in H5- I can't help but feel how methodical and slow paced it is. It's weird that 10 years ago H3 was a game I loved to play but I truly think today's game evolution has pushed game mechanics faster and faster, and kids love it. Heck I even love it too- I just have to do thumb exercises daily to keep up with the younger generation.

So for the argument on why isn't H5 more popular I think stems from a host of different reasons; namely the fact it's only on 1 platform. Twitch viewers and you-tubers love to watch people on PC, second It had a very terrible launch although you can look at a game like SWBII as an example for a rebound on a bad launch. Third, it took them darn near 3 years to get HCS mechanics narrowed down which is farrrr to long to keep engagement going. Spartan charge was very poorly implemented in H5, Ground pound could've also been implemented differently. Nobody plays BTB anymore because, well- the battle-rifle is straight up garbage and lends itself more as a pea shooter than an actual weapon.

So, essentially, H5 could still be thriving (in my opinion) if 343 didn't keep shooting themselves in the foot with on the cuff changes. What they lacked was a 4 or 5 year vision from the onset. So at least one thing I think everyone can agree on is Infinite needs to have a solid foundation that doesn't involve drastic changes 2 or 3 years down the road and has a vision that can be executed to keep engagement high. I suppose we'll see what happens.

Finally, I agree that Infinite can't have both classic and modern game-play. That is definitely the opposite approach to keep engagement high.
You make alot of good points and I also enjoy Halo 5 multiplayer. I have always felt it is the correct evolution for the franchise.

I feel many people blame halos downfall do to the new mechanics. The thing is, Halo 3 was not up against the same amount of competition. Like you said, there is Apex and fortnite now. Plus we still have call of duty, destiny, battlefield, doom, and overwatch. The first person shooter has such a high variety and I'm sure missed some more. I have always felt that has made the bigger impact to halos downfall. All those games are on all platforms. This and the fact that YouTube and streaming has become way more popular than it used to be. So people who play those games and stream then or make YouTube videos on them are getting those games more popular. I think that is why Microsoft brought ninja to mixer. He will most likely push Halo infinites launch by streaming it.
Reneggade wrote:
You make alot of good points and I also enjoy Halo 5 multiplayer. I have always felt it is the correct evolution for the franchise.

I feel many people blame halos downfall do to the new mechanics. The thing is, Halo 3 was not up against the same amount of competition. Like you said, there is Apex and fortnite now. Plus we still have call of duty, destiny, battlefield, doom, and overwatch. The first person shooter has such a high variety and I'm sure missed some more. I have always felt that has made the bigger impact to halos downfall. All those games are on all platforms. This and the fact that YouTube and streaming has become way more popular than it used to be. So people who play those games and stream then or make YouTube videos on them are getting those games more popular. I think that is why Microsoft brought ninja to mixer. He will most likely push Halo infinites launch by streaming it.
I disagree.
  • "I feel many people blame halos downfall do to the new mechanics"
Well, nothing is set in stone and there will be never a 100% way to prove it, but as the developers / Persons in charge a conclusion has to be made. The downfall has started with Reach. This is not an opinion, I'm talking about numbers. It continued with 4 and even more with 5. Now, Reach was very vell recieved and it got praised for tons of things (Campaign Story & the variety of missions, Multiplayer, Forge, Custimization, Art Style) - looks like the perfect game - but one thing was very controversial - the gameplay. So, as a developer, you have to ask yourself - This game did so many things right with only one aspect beeing controversial? Should we listen to the critisizm? Should we ignore it? Do we believe in those mechanics and continue this particular style of gameplay? And they did. It was time for H4 and people now blamed the Multiplayer. Finally, with Halo 5, people blame the campaign. I guess we will blame the weather if Infinite doesn't succeed with those "advanced" movements.
We should not downplay the importance of the most important aspect of a video game - the gameplay.

  • "The thing is, Halo 3 was not up against the same amount of competition. Like you said, there is Apex and fortnite now. Plus we still have call of duty, destiny, battlefield, doom, and overwatch."
Really? Let me break this down (Game / Release Date)

Halo 5 / 2015
  • Overwatch / 2016
  • Doom / 2016
  • Fortnite / 2017
  • Apex / 2019
I'd like to reply to this argument with your own words: Halo 5 was not up against the same amount of competition. Neither Overwatch (Game of the year 2016, took the whole genre by storm) nor any Battle Royale Game (that you've mentioned & Pubg) was released back then.
When it comes to COD / BF: I honestly don't get this argument? Because the original triology competed with both Franchises as well? H3 probably competed against 3 COD Titles at the same time. When it comes to the current gen, Battlefield was even having a pretty rough time (BF4's bad launch & Hardline was not recieved very well) and while COD still was doing good (The reputation was bad, yet the sales were ok), Fans of the FPS Genre were looking for new things.
Actually, H5 had pretty good conditions to be successful. Not just because of the reasons I've mentioned above (Demanding for something new), people were exciting for the first big Exclusive on the Xone. I guess I don't have to elaborate the aftermath.

And then there are tons of other Franchises Halo had to compete with. Here's a whole Video about this Topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRVz7B2mEWc
I would much prefer that this time around they maintain sprint-less gameplay as the core experience with dev map support, and leave sprint to rotational experiences with forge made map support. Pretty much the reverse of how H5 went about. The other spartan abilities can remain, I am more less indifferent to them.
Curious what others think. Is this just a Halo 5 gimmick, or a sign of things to come?
Without making any sort of prediction on Infinite, H5G getting a Myhic gamemode means absolutely nothing for the next game.
Need I remind that the very first thing 343 did to Reach after taking over the franchise was release ZBNS modes? Immediately followed by Anniversary maps and modes. Yet the next game was even more CoDified.
And back then, there was no such thing as the MCC that they could point towards in order to appease the classic fans. (Not that it would work, mind you.)
I guess what I'm saying is that I've been burnt one too many times to assume this is a sign that 343 has learned from their mistakes...
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