Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

Classic Halo Is Killing The Franchises Growth

OP Mr Reloadshot

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I don’t hate new halo. But I can’t say without lying old Halo was where all the moments I had in this came from.
personally I think there should be a nice in between I personally loved halo reach and think that’s a good middle ground between old and new. A happy in between maybe
Op in a nutshell:

Makes a thread & claims Classic Halo is Killing the franchise,

Only played Halo 5...
Spoiler:
Show
Actually the new movement system is what started the downwards trend but sure believe what you want I guess...
I think the new movements are nice , aside from hovering in mid air, like aiming in and jumping? That's trash and forever be needs to be disabled.

It sucks being a decent( not great) player and losing momentum during fights because of it
Especially during swat, it just paints you as a target, whereas I used to be able to jump around and get some decent shots at a distance!
You can disable auto stabilization. I play with mine disabled, and making those jumps while aiming in are still very possible because of it. Just turn it off in your settings.
Uuv wrote:
Op in a nutshell:

Makes a thread & claims Classic Halo is Killing the franchise,

Only played Halo 5...
Spoiler:
Show
Actually the new movement system is what started the downwards trend but sure believe what you want I guess...
I think the new movements are nice , aside from hovering in mid air, like aiming in and jumping? That's trash and forever be needs to be disabled.

It sucks being a decent( not great) player and losing momentum during fights because of it
Especially during swat, it just paints you as a target, whereas I used to be able to jump around and get some decent shots at a distance!
You can disable auto stabilization. I play with mine disabled, and making those jumps while aiming in are still very possible because of it. Just turn it off in your settings.
Wait what. This entire time I thought it was a game variant setting. Dude
You're the best
Uuv wrote:
Op in a nutshell:

Makes a thread & claims Classic Halo is Killing the franchise,

Only played Halo 5...
Spoiler:
Show
Actually the new movement system is what started the downwards trend but sure believe what you want I guess...
I think the new movements are nice , aside from hovering in mid air, like aiming in and jumping? That's trash and forever be needs to be disabled.

It sucks being a decent( not great) player and losing momentum during fights because of it
Especially during swat, it just paints you as a target, whereas I used to be able to jump around and get some decent shots at a distance!
You can disable auto stabilization. I play with mine disabled, and making those jumps while aiming in are still very possible because of it. Just turn it off in your settings.
Wait what. This entire time I thought it was a game variant setting. Dude
You're the best
Just be ready to adapt to the change. At first, it's a little hard to get used to, but once you do, it makes you feel like you have more control over the ability, given that you can still activate the hovering, it just doesn't turn on by default.
On point!, I love classic feel, classic story but master chief and Halo needs to continue to evolve. I love halo and halo 2, but i don't go back to play those because I like to sprint, jump, and bull dose over the enemy. keep master chief alive, but let him evolve. he is a super soldier that can learn a trick. I love it when i was first able to sprint or burst as master chief. i was like where was this before master chief.
Uuv wrote:
Uuv wrote:
Op in a nutshell:

Makes a thread & claims Classic Halo is Killing the franchise,

Only played Halo 5...
Spoiler:
Show
Actually the new movement system is what started the downwards trend but sure believe what you want I guess...
I think the new movements are nice , aside from hovering in mid air, like aiming in and jumping? That's trash and forever be needs to be disabled.

It sucks being a decent( not great) player and losing momentum during fights because of it
Especially during swat, it just paints you as a target, whereas I used to be able to jump around and get some decent shots at a distance!
You can disable auto stabilization. I play with mine disabled, and making those jumps while aiming in are still very possible because of it. Just turn it off in your settings.
Wait what. This entire time I thought it was a game variant setting. Dude
You're the best
Just be ready to adapt to the change. At first, it's a little hard to get used to, but once you do, it makes you feel like you have more control over the ability, given that you can still activate the hovering, it just doesn't turn on by default.
Boy if I wasn't ready to adapt Id be playing call of duty
Do not make nonconstructive posts or flame/attack others.

Spoiler:
Show
LUKEPOWA wrote:
I don't have enough facepalms for that thread title. Can you provide proof that classic Halo is killing the franchises growth?
I would love to see the population numbers between the classic Halos vs H4 & H5.Classic Halo is King is this regard. I feel thats why so much effort is being put into fixing the MCC.

I would say a larger % of the population enjoy the classic halo, with a smaller % enjoying all these new changes. Ill admit, some are good some aren't. Im not going to go into detail. I feel H6 will have a blend of classic Halo mixed in with some of these advanced movements, but not as many that are in H5. Thats just what I am assuming based on some of the complaints I have seen.
I would love to see the population numbers between the classic Halos vs H4 & H5.
Let's just remember that when "classic Halo" was around there were a lot less other options in terms of triple-A FPSs. The situation is very different now.
I would love to see the population numbers between the classic Halos vs H4 & H5.
Let's just remember that when "classic Halo" was around there were a lot less other options in terms of triple-A FPSs. The situation is very different now.
Oh please. Things have barely changed in terms of "competition" for shooters. Lets go back to 2007 and pick out game series that were still going strong at that time. CoD? Check. Rainbow Six? Check. Battlefield? Check. Gears? Check. Counterstrike? Check. Overwatch? Team Fortress 2 says hello. And lets not forget the various Sony shooters that were chasing multiplayer success. The only thing that currently sticks out is Pubg and Fortnite occupying the same "fresh new thing" slot.

What has changed is that the game industry has grown massively. You can argue that their are more hands grabbing for a slice of that AAA shooter pie, but the Pie has gotten so big if you can't grab one for yourself, that's on you, not "competition." The consumer base is so large and broad, it can easily support a Halo game(no matter what direction it takes) on top of whatever else people are playing.

The "competition" argument was bad when it first started to make the rounds and it is still bad now.
I would love to see the population numbers between the classic Halos vs H4 & H5.
Let's just remember that when "classic Halo" was around there were a lot less other options in terms of triple-A FPSs. The situation is very different now.
I don't know about others, but my game library over the years I've been gaming has third person shooters, strategy games, top down rpgs, first person rpgs, beat 'em ups, racing, sports, platformers, and so forth.
of course I can be of a rare type which extend my reach beyond a single type of genre ( doubt it ), but to narrow the competition down to "AAA FPS games" is rather, self serving?

Halo CE didn't compete against other FPS titles at the OG Xbox release. It did really well.
What did Halo CE compete against?
An established Playstation 2 with a large game library, PC with a large game library.
What did Halo CE have on its side? A brand new console people were unsure of.
Halo CE was a system seller.

Competition isn't just within the same genre.
Naqser wrote:
I would love to see the population numbers between the classic Halos vs H4 & H5.
Let's just remember that when "classic Halo" was around there were a lot less other options in terms of triple-A FPSs. The situation is very different now.
I don't know about others, but my game library over the years I've been gaming has third person shooters, strategy games, top down rpgs, first person rpgs, beat 'em ups, racing, sports, platformers, and so forth.
of course I can be of a rare type which extend my reach beyond a single type of genre ( doubt it ), but to narrow the competition down to "AAA FPS games" is rather, self serving?

Halo CE didn't compete against other FPS titles at the OG Xbox release. It did really well.
What did Halo CE compete against?
An established Playstation 2 with a large game library, PC with a large game library.
What did Halo CE have on its side? A brand new console people were unsure of.
Halo CE was a system seller.

Competition isn't just within the same genre.
My point is that people have different tastes, and previously had a lot less options (at least on console) to suit their specific tastes. Personally, my taste is all Halo as far as shooters go, but there will be people out there who used to play Halo and have since jumped on to CoD, Far Cry, Destiny, Fortnite, etc. etc. because they suit those people better. In 2001, how many other really solid FPSs were there on console? How many are there now?
I would love to see the population numbers between the classic Halos vs H4 & H5.
Let's just remember that when "classic Halo" was around there were a lot less other options in terms of triple-A FPSs. The situation is very different now.
You are correct. But at the same time, if a game is worth playing, people will flock to it. Look at the millions that jumped on the fortnite bandwagon? I think it is still possible to maintain a high populatiok despite all the recent competition.
Games should adapt to new times. Unfortunately, the last two games didn't just try to adapt. They tried to reestablish mechanics that already worked. That is not how a game should properly adapt. Reach made the first real attempt, but pushed it with the armor abilities. That is the kind of adaptation I find suitable.

What I don't get is why some mechanics needed changed at all. For instance, the lack of sprint. This mechanic alone is a major staple of classic Halo. Sprint didn't exist until after the release of the fourth Halo game and somehow I do not recall any outcry. When it was added, it was somewhat forgivable because it was very similar to the equipment introduced in Halo 3, which complemented that game so well AND it was limited. Needless to say, neither the campaign nor multiplayer suffered because of it, and instead, arguably, thrived because of it! You can't just slap on unlimited sprint and call that 'adaptation'. You might as well slap on microtransactions and call that adaptation (oh, wait...).

We need to draw a line between adapting and copying because the latter is all I got from Halo 4 and 5 (kill streaks, sprint, microtransactions, load outs, etc.). Ultimately, most mechanics should be left alone in any game, especially if said mechanics already work. Instead, why not adapt the story or the art style? Halo 2 did so with the story, the introduction of new enemies (the brutes), and boss battles (Tartarus) without needing to add sprint.

Bottom line, if games should change so drastically that they play completely different from the original, that is when the developers should consider developing an entirely new game. I'm sorry to say, Halo 5 plays completely different from CE.
Times are different and Halo Reach was one of the best Halo games and sprint is normal and should be able to be done by a Spartan. It doesn't make sense to slow everyone down.
This must have been said before but here goes:

I think that Spartans sprinting is fine. If you want to explain Spartans being able to run without the 'sprint ability' - in classic movement when you pushed the stick all the way forward, you were sprinting. If you wanted to just walk, don't push the stick all the way forward.

I feel like that basically destroys the lore argument that 'Spartans should sprint'.

That is different than the discussion of the actual gameplay mechanics though, and I personally don't really care if that mechanic is in, or not.
I just want the next Halo game to have a better campaign, and MP that is nicely balanced.
Ok, read all three pages, if anyone asks.

To say that "classic" Halo is killing the franchise is a bit... harsh. I would say that Halo CE stunned everyone when it released, and Halo 2 stunned everyone again because it had online matchmaking, and that Halo 3 was a "must-have" game if you liked online competition. There were real problems with Halo 3 and Microsoft and Bungie were not getting along. People were definitely becoming actually famous playing Halo 3. It kinda happened with Halo 2 but people like Walshy, Bravo, Ninja, etc. were Stars, and a a lot of people wanted in on that and invested a lot of time and energy into Halo 3. Xbox Live was also not handling Halo 3 very well. Matchmaking was really a sore spot. Most people agreed that a new game was in order. Unfortunately, Bungie and Microsoft agreed to disagree, and Bungie had to spit out two more games and then leave Halo forever. So the next game was not Halo 4. It was Halo:ODST. We played it, we liked it, and it briefly took attention away from Halo 3. But now we were REALLY ready for the next game where all the problems would be addressed. We were ready for Halo 4. We were teased for a long time, and when things began to leak about the next game we were sure it was going to be Halo 4. Some people believed it was going to be Halo 4 right up until the moment they held the disc in their hands. Halo... Reach? Why didn't they call it Halo 4? Spartan III? Three is higher than two, so a Spartan III should be better than a Spartan II, but they're NOT. No Master Chief. This is just all messed up in every possible way.

So, what we actually recall from those days is that there were three main Halo releases, and each enjoyed more good press than the last. It was a good time to be a Halo player, and a great time to be a good Halo player. Everyone concerned believed that the franchise was bullet proof. Halo had no real competition. Despite what you may hear, Reach did quite well for a spinoff. Microsoft believed Halo would work no matter who was handling the franchise. The Young Turks at 343i were out to prove that all that old school stuff from Bungie was quaint, but "today's" Halo player wanted more action, excitement, and especially, explosions. Halo 4 was so awfully silly that no wonder people wished Halo 3 was back.

I'm reminded of the cutscene in Halo 4 where Palmer meets Master Chief face-to-visor for the first time (did Palmer ever wear her helmet?) She makes a smart--Yoinked!- remark about thinking MC was taller, and Chief didn't even dignify her comment with a response. It was a silly thing for her to say, and all the Spartan IVs were really just a bunch of silly, self-centered high school jocks that had some nerve calling themselves Spartans. Not one was memorable. Not in a good way.

What people miss is going online and getting a match fairly quickly on a decent map, especially if they were looking for a tournament style game. This is why they bring up popularity. Everyone played Halo 3, but it had as much to do with nothing else out there being better as it did with movement mechanics. It's the belief that Halo 3 had somehow stumbled upon the perfect blend of movement mechanics, weapon balance and skill matching. The excesses and missteps of Reach and Halo 4 "proved" beyond a shadow of a doubt that the only way Halo survives is if it resembles the game that got the most good press. I believe what the OP is trying to say is that thoughts of reclaiming that former glory by somehow recreating the atmosphere that was present when Halo 3 was king effectively stifles any inclination to try something new or different, cause look what happens when you do that.

Now I don't believe anyone will argue that Halo 2 was not radically different from CE, and that 3 was a lot like 2. I don't include Reach because it was a spinoff. So we have Halo 3 and then we have Halo 4. Those two games couldn't be more different. Really, two completely different games. I submit that if the difference between Halo 3 and 4 had been more like the difference between 3 and two or, seriously, between 3 and CE, any disruption caused by Reach would have been overlooked and forgotten. Veteran players would have found 4 easier to accept. 343i tried to take the game where no one wanted it to go. At least, not that fast. Eventually. Maybe.

I don't think it is ever a good idea for a game to go backwards. I think they need to move forward, but in a way that we can recognize. Don't try to impress us with your ability to put this or that into the game, or make things happen just because you can. No one that plays Halo on any level wants "stuff".No one wants the ability to find the guy that killed you once you respawn (seriously, an ability that doesn't work unless you die?). People are not nostalgic about how the old games played. They're nostalgic about the attention the games got, and thus the attention players got because they played it. There is not a whole lot left to innovate when it comes to First Person Shooters. Most of what's left comes down to whether or not a player wants to wear a pair of goggles when they play. There's nothing new to bring. Just refined implementation. That said, there's no reason to have us believe the next game will be like that old game. The next game should make me entirely forget Halo 3 and the earlier games because for the first time in Halo history I should be able to play as a Spartan and no excuses because the game engine has limitations. Not "Classic" Halo. Just Halo.
That's nice and all, but the fact still remains that people just don't want to play this "new" type of Halo—at least not for extended periods of time. Beginning with Reach, launch numbers have been pretty solid, but in the weeks and months ahead there's always a mass exodus of players which leaves the particular game in question in a deflated state.

A lot of people don't care to pay any attention to it, but these newer, gimmicky features destroy the game's pacing. Whereas the originals had an intricate flow to them, the more recent games are best described as ‘chaotic;’ you have players running, jumping, flying everywhere, shooting at everything—and Warzone especially exemplifies how detrimental this is when all order is removed by stripping the game of map pickups and allowing players to spawn with power weapons.

So the answer to "How do we put Halo back on its throne?" isn't to embrace what clearly isn't working just because it's new; it's to take everything that has worked for the past sixteen years, and use it all as a foundation for the next game.
JediMac wrote:
On point!, I love classic feel, classic story but master chief and Halo needs to continue to evolve. I love halo and halo 2, but i don't go back to play those because I like to sprint, jump, and bull dose over the enemy. keep master chief alive, but let him evolve. he is a super soldier that can learn a trick. I love it when i was first able to sprint or burst as master chief. i was like where was this before master chief.
Yup, totally agree. I watched the Doom Eternal reveal that was showed at Quake Con last weekend, they're expanding on the lore and it looks like the Slayer or Doom Guy has picked up a mod or two. However it was Doom to the core, learn new things but don't take away.

The developers seem to be evolving Doom and I can't wait to play the new game. It's a complaint I've often voiced about Halo, it's evolved at the cost of many things that made it Halo imo, and it's evolved to the point where I'm not sure I'll be buying the next game, sadly.
Guys imagine a parent telling their kid what to do and the kid disagreeing. The parent was born in a time where things were a certain way but they have to accept that a new generation comes with new rules and new standards and they have to accept that the child will naturally grow with their generation and new environment.

We all love Halo, right? besides from the story aspect, what we love about the game is the memories we've made on it together over the years.
But like I said at the end of the day, we all love this game and with that being said we have to learn how to let go of certain things and how to embrace and learn to work with new things. We can get what you guys the best Halo game and there will still be a backlash because to get what you guys consider a good Halo game is to either completely lean towards to Classical Halo style and go back in the past or stick with the future ideas and new additions to Halo that started during Halo Reach to Halo 5.

We need o stop nitpicking and think about both sides of the spectrum and here is my opinion. Sprint at this point will stick in Halo and that is one of the elements we have to just accept. Times are different and Halo Reach was one of the best Halo games and sprint is normal and should be able to be done by a Spartan. It doesn't make sense to slow everyone down. I can't even imagine. We need to stop trying to lean to one side and mix good aspects that even if you don't like can work.
What is killing the franchise's growth is stagnation in the FPS market, and Halo no longer having the ability to draw new players because it plays the same as it's competition in the FPS market. Halo no longer can rely on a niche in the FPS market it held to draw in new players, it is now relying on who want's to look/feel like a spartan to keep players, and it isn't working. In fact, I wouldn't even say that it's killing the franchise's growth, as the franchise is more than just FPS Halo now, it's just killing the FPS portion of the franchise. HW2 seems to be doing well for itself and I know several players who jumped ship to CoD and play HW2 to get their Halo fix.

Players stopped playing shortly after launch because other companies offered better, smoother mechanics, and better content at launch that players expected. There was a time when players played both Halo and CoD because they offered vastly different gameplay experiences. Now people jump ship after 2 weeks because other games offer a better gaming experience with very similar mechanics. That isn't the fault of classic or new players, it is bad design decisions and poor project management on 343.
Guys imagine a parent telling their kid what to do and the kid disagreeing. The parent was born in a time where things were a certain way but they have to accept that a new generation comes with new rules and new standards and they have to accept that the child will naturally grow with their generation and new environment.

We all love Halo, right? besides from the story aspect, what we love about the game is the memories we've made on it together over the years.
But like I said at the end of the day, we all love this game and with that being said we have to learn how to let go of certain things and how to embrace and learn to work with new things. We can get what you guys the best Halo game and there will still be a backlash because to get what you guys consider a good Halo game is to either completely lean towards to Classical Halo style and go back in the past or stick with the future ideas and new additions to Halo that started during Halo Reach to Halo 5.

We need o stop nitpicking and think about both sides of the spectrum and here is my opinion. Sprint at this point will stick in Halo and that is one of the elements we have to just accept. Times are different and Halo Reach was one of the best Halo games and sprint is normal and should be able to be done by a Spartan. It doesn't make sense to slow everyone down. I can't even imagine. We need to stop trying to lean to one side and mix good aspects that even if you don't like can work.
Now people jump ship after 2 weeks because other games offer a better gaming experience with very similar mechanics. That isn't the fault of classic or new players, it is bad design decisions and poor project management on 343.
I took me longer than two weeks, but I can relate to that, I went back to Titanfall, and when Doom 2016 launched I played that, they were more fun imo, and in the case of Titanfall the online connection is second to none.
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