Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

Classic Halo isn't perfect..

OP WerepyreND

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..Which is why it is so endlessly frustrating when its detractors treat returning to classic Halo like it would be the end of all innovation and progress in the series. There have been issues with every Halo title and the community has been quite vocal about them from the start but it but neither Bungie or 343 have been good about addressing them. Bungie in particular had a bad habit of taking problems with obvious solutions and then choosing to take the most backwards option.

Too many cqc encounters ending with melee's in Halo 3? Should we nerf melee damage? Reduce/Remove Lunge? Increase player health hitpoints? Nah, lets just remove damage bleed-through entirely...

No one has ever really taken the time to take a classic Halo game really dig into its flaws and try to correct them in sensible ways and push the game forward from there. If Halo has a history of anything, its a history of changes but few solutions. There is so much room to grow with classic Halo and for all the flaws each specific Halo game had, they almost all had something to offer, Reach-H5 included.

Returning to the roots of classic Halo doesn't mean we are stuck with Halo 3(or 2 or CE) forever, its a starting point, a core design philosophy from which new ideas can be cultivated. We never reached the peaks of where classic Halo could reach. It has always been a diamond in the rough. It doesn't need to be molded into something else, it still has room to be refined and polished.

Some people might say classic Halo was finished, but I think it was just getting started.
WerepyreND wrote:
..Which is why it is so endlessly frustrating when its detractors treat returning to classic Halo like it would be the end of all innovation and progress in the series. There have been issues with every Halo title and the community has been quite vocal about them from the start but it but neither Bungie or 343 have been good about addressing them. Bungie in particular had a bad habit of taking problems with obvious solutions and then choosing to take the most backwards option.

Too many cqc encounters ending with melee's in Halo 3? Should we nerf melee damage? Reduce/Remove Lunge? Increase player health hitpoints? Nah, lets just remove damage bleed-through entirely...

No one has ever really taken the time to take a classic Halo game really dig into its flaws and try to correct them in sensible ways and push the game forward from there. If Halo has a history of anything, its a history of changes but few solutions. There is so much room to grow with classic Halo and for all the flaws each specific Halo game had, they almost all had something to offer, Reach-H5 included.

Returning to the roots of classic Halo doesn't mean we are stuck with Halo 3(or 2 or CE) forever, its a starting point, a core design philosophy from which new ideas can be cultivated. We never reached the peaks of where classic Halo could reach. It has always been a diamond in the rough. It doesn't need to be molded into something else, it still has room to be refined and polished.

Some people might say classic Halo was finished, but I think it was just getting started.
Both ideas from Bungie and 343 seem unfinished. Modern Halo was almost perfected in H5 and Classic Halo in H2/3. It'll be very interesting to see which direction 343 will take in infinite.
WerepyreND wrote:
Some people might say classic Halo was finished, but I think it was just getting started.
Gotta love that ADS, infinite sprint and big 'CQC' maps.
WerepyreND wrote:
Some people might say classic Halo was finished, but I think it was just getting started.
Gotta love that ADS, infinite sprint and big 'CQC' maps.
i love soo much 1000 power hype!
Blasphemy!
343 Halo feels like a lot of the new mechanics were just tacked on with no real integration of their use within gameplay. For exmaple, Clamber feels like it's there only because the jump height was (or feels) shorter and maps are built with it in mind.

Reach felt the best to me, but Armor Abilities did need work. Wasn't a fan of sprint then, either.
Halo is the innovator not the imitator. Never has never will be. When Halo does imitate it doesn’t go well Halo 4-5 as an example. Adding sprint, ADS, thrusters isn’t inovating.

Adding something like destructible enviorments IS innovation. It respects the classic Halo formula, any change to the game needs to make sure it doesn’t affect the Golden Triangle of Halo. Gun play, Granades, Melee.
very well said
It would be amazing if they used CE as a template and improved and expanded on some of those ideas. One example could be taking the weapons and adding unique features to them like the AR had with quick camo.

Your post really reminded me of a video that I recently watched about why Bungie wasn't that great for Halo. It's linked here if you wanna watch it. It contains some bad language just as a warning.
xAXIOS wrote:
Halo is the innovator not the imitator. Never has never will be. When Halo does imitate it doesn’t go well Halo 4-5 as an example. Adding sprint, ADS, thrusters isn’t inovating.

Adding something like destructible enviorments IS innovation. It respects the classic Halo formula, any change to the game needs to make sure it doesn’t affect the Golden Triangle of Halo. Gun play, Granades, Melee. .
Halo has been imitating for 8 years now since reach.You just shared things they imitated so saying they never will be an imitator is contradictory
xAXIOS wrote:
Halo is the innovator not the imitator. Never has never will be. When Halo does imitate it doesn’t go well Halo 4-5 as an example. Adding sprint, ADS, thrusters isn’t inovating.

Adding something like destructible enviorments IS innovation. It respects the classic Halo formula, any change to the game needs to make sure it doesn’t affect the Golden Triangle of Halo. Gun play, Granades, Melee. .
Halo has been imitating for 8 years now since reach.You just shared things they imitated so saying they never will be an imitator is contradictory
Lol and most hardcore fans will tell you/know that was the beginning of Halo’s downfall. Sorry I’m sick of Halo hand holding noobs get good.
xAXIOS wrote:
xAXIOS wrote:
Halo is the innovator not the imitator. Never has never will be. When Halo does imitate it doesn’t go well Halo 4-5 as an example. Adding sprint, ADS, thrusters isn’t inovating.

Adding something like destructible enviorments IS innovation. It respects the classic Halo formula, any change to the game needs to make sure it doesn’t affect the Golden Triangle of Halo. Gun play, Granades, Melee. .
Halo has been imitating for 8 years now since reach.You just shared things they imitated so saying they never will be an imitator is contradictory
Lol and most hardcore fans will tell you/know that was the beginning of Halo’s downfall. Sorry I’m sick of Halo hand holding noobs get good.
Well based on popularity and population numbers halo has been declining since reach and are you telling me to get good?
xAXIOS wrote:
xAXIOS wrote:
Halo is the innovator not the imitator. Never has never will be. When Halo does imitate it doesn’t go well Halo 4-5 as an example. Adding sprint, ADS, thrusters isn’t inovating.

Adding something like destructible enviorments IS innovation. It respects the classic Halo formula, any change to the game needs to make sure it doesn’t affect the Golden Triangle of Halo. Gun play, Granades, Melee. .
Halo has been imitating for 8 years now since reach.You just shared things they imitated so saying they never will be an imitator is contradictory
Lol and most hardcore fans will tell you/know that was the beginning of Halo’s downfall. Sorry I’m sick of Halo hand holding noobs get good.
Well based on popularity and population numbers halo has been declining since reach and are you telling me to get good?
Thanks for proving my point. If Halo reach is an “imitator” and Halo 4-5 barley held a respectable population since launch then yes Halo should not be trying to copy popular FPS’s. Halo 1-3 innovated. Halo 2 has dual wielding, but respected the triangle. Halo 3 added equipment although controversial, still respected the triangle. Classic mechanics have proven to keep player retention. If I want to play COD I’ll go play COD. I don’t want COD in my Halo, I want Halo in my Halo.

Halo 4-5 through this all out the window. And yes if you are complaining why Halo is returning back to the roots (which I don’t know why anyone would) and to stay nooby then yes, get guud.
Okay I actually read you’re entire origins post (before I just read the title and the first line and got annoyed my bad) we pretty much are agreeing on the same thing.

youre saying to improve off of Halo’s classic formula, and where it has its downfalls to improve. Respect.
I totally agree. Classic Halo had so much potential, that I do believe was never truly realised. It's why I was invested so much in its sequels and also why I have lost interest since halo began to move in this 'new' alternative Halo direction. If you use Halo 5 as a base, the game is already pretty complicated to begin with, what with just its movement mechanics alone. Start adding much more on top of that the game could become very messy very quickly. Classic Halo's simple base mechanics made it an ideal canvas for all sorts of sandbox elements, modifiers and interactables. I see going back to 'classic' as meaning taking a step back to move forward. Not a rejection of progression.
xAXIOS wrote:
xAXIOS wrote:
xAXIOS wrote:
Halo is the innovator not the imitator. Never has never will be. When Halo does imitate it doesn’t go well Halo 4-5 as an example. Adding sprint, ADS, thrusters isn’t inovating.

Adding something like destructible enviorments IS innovation. It respects the classic Halo formula, any change to the game needs to make sure it doesn’t affect the Golden Triangle of Halo. Gun play, Granades, Melee. .
Halo has been imitating for 8 years now since reach.You just shared things they imitated so saying they never will be an imitator is contradictory
Lol and most hardcore fans will tell you/know that was the beginning of Halo’s downfall. Sorry I’m sick of Halo hand holding noobs get good.
Well based on popularity and population numbers halo has been declining since reach and are you telling me to get good?
Thanks for proving my point. If Halo reach is an “imitator” and Halo 4-5 barley held a respectable population since launch then yes Halo should not be trying to copy popular FPS’s. Halo 1-3 innovated. Halo 2 has dual wielding, but respected the triangle. Halo 3 added equipment although controversial, still respected the triangle. Classic mechanics have proven to keep player retention. If I want to play COD I’ll go play COD. I don’t want COD in my Halo, I want Halo in my Halo.

Halo 4-5 through this all out the window. And yes if you are complaining why Halo is returning back to the roots (which I don’t know why anyone would) and to stay nooby then yes, get guud.
Not complaining,I want classic halo to return
To me, classic Halo didn't have flaws (or rather, the flaws it did have were either negligible or forgivable). Ultimately, I don't look back on Halo 3 and say this should be different or that should be different. I look back on it and appreciate everything exactly the way it is. This isn't necessarily nostalgia. I've felt this way long before any of the Halo games became nostalgic to me. Classic Halo was already what it needed to be. Instead of asking what it is that makes classic Halo imperfect, I tend to ask, why does it need to be perfect at all? It worked. It was universally loved. It was original. It was fun. What we have now is a barely recognizable ghost of a formerly awesome thing. This isn't to say I wouldn't welcome changes to the classic formula. Just that we need to return to that formula before we can start making Halo relevant again.
To me, classic Halo didn't have flaws (or rather, the flaws it did have were either negligible or forgivable). Ultimately, I don't look back on Halo 3 and say this should be different or that should be different. I look back on it and appreciate everything exactly the way it is. This isn't necessarily nostalgia. I've felt this way long before any of the Halo games became nostalgic to me. Classic Halo was already what it needed to be. Instead of asking what it is that makes classic Halo imperfect, I tend to ask, why does it need to be perfect at all? It worked. It was universally loved. It was original. It was fun. What we have now is a barely recognizable ghost of a formerly awesome thing. This isn't to say I wouldn't welcome changes to the classic formula. Just that we need to return to that formula before we can start making Halo relevant again.
The point isn't to dump on classic Halo or say that it needs radical change. I accept them for what they were and what they are. Whether you forgive the flaws or not, they were still there, as much as you or I enjoyed the those games regardless. Despite all the great memories I have of them, there are still plenty of other memories of them at the time of my being frustrated with certain aspects of them.

There is still so much room to grow within a classic Halo framework for a "Halo 4"(as in a 4th classic Halo game). Shoot most of what you need is already in those first 3 games, albeit spread out across each of them.

The main drive of the OP is to point out to folks who criticize the idea of returning to classic Halo that returning to it is a starting point not an ending point. That returning to classic Halo is not the same thing as just doing Halo 3 ad infinitum.
Couldnt agree more.

I think there is a fine line between classic halo & all these advanced movements that have been added. I feel in infinite they will find that balance & perfect it. Well one can hope anyways.
WerepyreND wrote:
The point isn't to dump on classic Halo or say that it needs radical change.
I didn't imply that was the nature of this discussion. My point was to illustrate why classic Halo should return and that it shouldn't have gone away to begin with.
WerepyreND wrote:
I accept them for what they were and what they are. Whether you forgive the flaws or not, they were still there, as much as you or I enjoyed the those games regardless. Despite all the great memories I have of them, there are still plenty of other memories of them at the time of my being frustrated with certain aspects of them.
Whether or not there are flaws at all is subjective. I'm not here to argue that.
WerepyreND wrote:
The main drive of the OP is to point out to folks who criticize the idea of returning to classic Halo that returning to it is a starting point not an ending point. That returning to classic Halo is not the same thing as just doing Halo 3 ad infinitum.
Agreed. I reiterated these sentiments in my post by pointing out that classic Halo should indeed return.
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