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Controller vs Mouse/keyboard

OP El camino roj0

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OP 12/7/2019

El camino roj0

Marine - Iron

Well, I navegate a little here in the forums and didn't find any question like this in the last month.
Im a little anxious about the games that mix controller and mouse -keyboard. What do you think guys? Is this good for the game?
as far as I know, mouse keyboard is faster for aim than controllers.
I was thinking in play H infinite with the elite 2, but if they mix the community I think I should practice soon with the mouse. What do you think guys?

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12/8/2019

eviltedi

ODST - Onyx

El camino roj0 wrote:
Well, I navegate a little here in the forums and didn't find any question like this in the last month.
Im a little anxious about the games that mix controller and mouse -keyboard. What do you think guys? Is this good for the game?
as far as I know, mouse keyboard is faster for aim than controllers.
I was thinking in play H infinite with the elite 2, but if they mix the community I think I should practice soon with the mouse. What do you think guys?

I hope we'll get the option to choose what input devices we play against. Same with cross play. I think some games like Warhammer Inquisitor Martyr will benefit from KB + M on console because of the lack of input options on a standard controller. When it comes to competitive play there could be issues, that's why we need the choice to play against controller or mouse only.

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12/8/2019

Fully Skully

ODST - Onyx

I hope we get input based MM as an option. If you go on Twitch you'll notice the PC community is very frustrated because they feel using a controller is essentially playing with an aimbot so it'd be nice to be able to choose playing with either or only and be rid of the constant whining.

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12/8/2019

Sir Cool One

ODST - Onyx

Play with whatever is most comfortable for you OP. M/KB is generally considered better but is at the cost of being noticeably less comfy.

Besides input based matchmaking seems the most likely to me. CoD MW did it with relative success and everyone is asking for it in MCC. It's almost a given so I doubt you will have any significant disadvantage either way.

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12/8/2019

gameman2726221

Recruit - Bronze

I've been doing pretty good on Team Hardcore in Halo Reach PC with a controller, so I don't think the control input really matters except for precision weapons. I tried out keyboard and mouse and got similar results as my controller gameplay. There's not a whole lot of aim assist in these games apart from aiming friction and bullet magnetism. There's no reason for any Halo (except 5) to have aim snapping since most weapons don't use a scope, but that's a different issue.

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12/8/2019

Moose Kitchen

Marine - Bronze

This will not be allowed in any competitive game.

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11/25/2020

TinT LosT

Recruit - Gold

get rid of aim assist in competitive modes, then, us keyboard warriors, wont have a reason to complain, we trained to get this good,

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11/25/2020

BoosterDuck9

Recruit - Bronze

it's ideal for M/KB to not have any type of aim assist or auto-aim because the control scheme is already too advantageous

I was also really disappointed not seeing smartscope return in the infinite trailer since that would've helped pad warriors compete with M/KB users

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11/25/2020

Brutal Vengence

Marine - Onyx

eviltedi wrote:
El camino roj0 wrote:
Well, I navegate a little here in the forums and didn't find any question like this in the last month.
Im a little anxious about the games that mix controller and mouse -keyboard. What do you think guys? Is this good for the game?
as far as I know, mouse keyboard is faster for aim than controllers.
I was thinking in play H infinite with the elite 2, but if they mix the community I think I should practice soon with the mouse. What do you think guys?
I hope we'll get the option to choose what input devices we play against. Same with cross play. I think some games like Warhammer Inquisitor Martyr will benefit from KB + M on console because of the lack of input options on a standard controller. When it comes to competitive play there could be issues, that's why we need the choice to play against controller or mouse only.

^ Agreed! Whether thats from a standpoint of competitive gameplay or even avoiding the usual hackers. PC is MUCH easier to hack with then a standard Xbox.

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11/25/2020

Superman Kenobi

Marine - Onyx

As for whether there's really a "superior," input method, not really. K&M does allow for extra precision and can yield startling results of accuracy and speed if you've got a lot of experience and a high DPI mouse. Analog sticks can't and don't provide the same degree of precision- hence, aim-assist. If it weren't for aim-assist, next to nobody would be capable of effectively using a controller in an FPS game, and *certainly* not in a competitive way.

Folks who are used to one of the input types typically resent the other. Few people are "ambidextrous," and can honestly say they're not better acquainted or preferring of one over the other. Assuming no mod skullduggary is going on, an experienced K&M player should be able to snag pretty good accuracy and so should an experienced controller user (aim-assist is carefully designed not to be *too* forgiving, just to make it so precision work with an analog stick isn't impossible).

Infinite should follow MCC's lead and let people filter input preference as a selection criteria for Matchmaking, but I don't think it'll be a problem for the game to support both input types. Of course if you're having a bad match and are playing against different input players, you're going to tend to blame your losing on their method receiving preferential treatment (just like people have blamed lag since the dawn of online gaming).

TL;DR: K&M makes precision shooting a matter of clicking *exactly* where you want to hit, which is a breeze for experienced PC gamers but can be difficult for others. Aim assist exists to compensate for an inherently less precise input method in controllers, but isn't enough to make a player who isn't experienced with a controller "good". Leaving the option to filter out input types to match yours is a good idea for 343i to carry forward into Infinite, but I do think the option to use either should carry on too.

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11/25/2020

EchoAge98

Marine - Iron

I feel that for the game to be properly competitive while also keeping the game fair, Aim Assist mechanics need to either be wildly toned down, given to both sides, or removed entirely. The best method I've seen is how Rainbow 6 Seige handles aim assist. In PvE its enabled. On highest difficulties in PvE and in PvP its disabled and I think that's really fair.

Us keyboard and mouse users didn't just one day decide to be good with the input device and it feels like controller users seem to think this.

I played TF2 and other PC FPSs for 9 years after leaving Xbox and controllers to get as good as I am now. I was absolutely garbage at the input device but given enough time and experience I have far surpassed what I could do with a controller. It felt wonky and odd having my arms so far apart and all those buttons and rebinding and everything about it confused me. I saw that where the magnetism on console would have guaranteed me a kill, my own incompetence let the kill slip away. I legitimately had to get good. But If a 13 year old me could get used to the absence of aim assist the Halo fanbase can do it too.

Before the MCC came to PC I dug out my Halo Reach Xbox 360 and played OG Reach and 3. I was astonished how strong the aim assist was. It just did all the killing for me. Time and time again, topscore, topscore, topscore, I felt sickened how easy it is just to spam and let the game aim for you. I see it in MCC too. DMR duels won out by someone clearly spamming and vaguely aiming near the head.

In closing, you CHOOSE, to use controller. YOU CHOOSE, to gimp yourself with an archaic input device. If you need aim assist for it to be viable then maybe you should just get good. Keyboard users shouldn't be punished because you CHOSE controller. If other gamers can do it, you can too.

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11/25/2020

SupplyOstrich14

Marine - Iron

They will probably have to put in input based MM because the PC community's excuse for why they get dunked on by controller players is "hurr durr aim assist is literally aimbot!1!1" (this is coming from someone who regularly games on PC). What's ironic is it's actually just KB/M users being bad. I accidently loaded into an MCC match using KB/M even though I normally use a controller for Halo, but I still did just as good as I normally do. As much as KB/M players don't want to admit it, you are losing simply because you are worse.

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11/25/2020

AhaloAskewed

Marine - Gold

I feel like using a mouse gives a significant boost in consistency and smoothness when it comes to aiming. Like your reticle will just be very steady. When it comes to consoles(standard controller), there's a suite of gameplay mechanics going on behind the scenes that will benefit the user of a controller and give it's best shot at replicating that consistency on console...so when the 2 are mixed together...man tbh I don't have experience with that but I do recall games where both inputs are available the mouse user feels restricted in terms of settings in game.

There is someone I seen on YouTube who has some sort of setup called a xim apex. He uses it in h5. Very good player...and if I'm being honest I think it does give a definite advantage. It won't improve other attributes needed to be a top tier player...because there's much more than just having great accuracy...but for sure this dude seems to have an advantage using that setup...so if both options are available...regardless of how comfortable a controller may feel vs a mouse...I think it would be necessary to use a mouse if youre serious about it and everyone at that higher level is using it since it's just the better option.

I don't think I'd ever use it myself. I don't ever compete. The most I do is just play ranked playlists, and I play those hella casual lol. As others have said though....I think it's necessary for search filters to exist if there's multiple inputs available and cross play. One would HOPE such options in search parameters be there but...if I'm being honest I have my doubts they'd be there.

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11/25/2020

SectionUnity

Marine - Onyx

El camino roj0 wrote:
Well, I navegate a little here in the forums and didn't find any question like this in the last month.
Im a little anxious about the games that mix controller and mouse -keyboard. What do you think guys? Is this good for the game?
as far as I know, mouse keyboard is faster for aim than controllers.
I was thinking in play H infinite with the elite 2, but if they mix the community I think I should practice soon with the mouse. What do you think guys?

I find it harder to aim for the mouth with precision weapons. Sudden movements with your palm happens more than a single finger. But with automatics and driving, its preferably easier. Especially swift turning on a warthog turret.

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11/26/2020

MRPIRATEFOX

Marine - Bronze

TinT LosT wrote:
get rid of aim assist in competitive modes, then, us keyboard warriors, wont have a reason to complain, we trained to get this good,

You dont have any reasons to complain. M&K is just better, and if you loose against a controller player, aim assist or not, you are just bad, just get over it. An average M&K player is slightly better than an average controller player just because the mouse precission, thats just a fact

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11/28/2020

TinT LosT

Recruit - Gold

MRPIRATEFOX wrote:
TinT LosT wrote:
get rid of aim assist in competitive modes, then, us keyboard warriors, wont have a reason to complain, we trained to get this good,
You dont have any reasons to complain. M&K is just better, and if you loose against a controller player, aim assist or not, you are just bad, just get over it. An average M&K player is slightly better than an average controller player just because the mouse precission, thats just a fact

cool story, but i said in competitive modes, casual and social games aim assist is fine, (competitive it isnt right to use unnatural assistance like aim assist), a great example were it is better than mouse and keyboard, (wiggle jumping) aim assist would help you keep on their head as they wiggle by crouching fast air borne, with a mouse this is not the case, high frequency movement with the mouse reduces aim accuracy, and i play both xbox and pc both have their flaws, but to be able to have no aim assist, the players would adjust as it is our human nature to adapt, =/ or do you not beleive in mankind?

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11/28/2020

Ryan lfc 92

Marine - Gold

TinT LosT wrote:
MRPIRATEFOX wrote:
TinT LosT wrote:
get rid of aim assist in competitive modes, then, us keyboard warriors, wont have a reason to complain, we trained to get this good,
You dont have any reasons to complain. M&K is just better, and if you loose against a controller player, aim assist or not, you are just bad, just get over it. An average M&K player is slightly better than an average controller player just because the mouse precission, thats just a fact
cool story, but i said in competitive modes, casual and social games aim assist is fine, (competitive it isnt right to use unnatural assistance like aim assist), a great example were it is better than mouse and keyboard, (wiggle jumping) aim assist would help you keep on their head as they wiggle by crouching fast air borne, with a mouse this is not the case, high frequency movement with the mouse reduces aim accuracy, and i play both xbox and pc both have their flaws, but to be able to have no aim assist, the players would adjust as it is our human nature to adapt, =/ or do you not beleive in mankind?

thumbsticks need aim assist imo in order to be intuitive like m+k. halo 5 has really low aim assist on controller and its the worse aiming ive played. after 5 years, its still not fun for me. the right choice is to just not allow controllers to play with m+k in ranked so people can get consistent matches

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11/29/2020

KnightFJS

Marine - Gold

Ryan lfc 92 wrote:
TinT LosT wrote:
MRPIRATEFOX wrote:
TinT LosT wrote:
get rid of aim assist in competitive modes, then, us keyboard warriors, wont have a reason to complain, we trained to get this good,
You dont have any reasons to complain. M&K is just better, and if you loose against a controller player, aim assist or not, you are just bad, just get over it. An average M&K player is slightly better than an average controller player just because the mouse precission, thats just a fact
cool story, but i said in competitive modes, casual and social games aim assist is fine, (competitive it isnt right to use unnatural assistance like aim assist), a great example were it is better than mouse and keyboard, (wiggle jumping) aim assist would help you keep on their head as they wiggle by crouching fast air borne, with a mouse this is not the case, high frequency movement with the mouse reduces aim accuracy, and i play both xbox and pc both have their flaws, but to be able to have no aim assist, the players would adjust as it is our human nature to adapt, =/ or do you not beleive in mankind?
thumbsticks need aim assist imo in order to be intuitive like m+k. halo 5 has really low aim assist on controller and its the worse aiming ive played. after 5 years, its still not fun for me. the right choice is to just not allow controllers to play with m+k in ranked so people can get consistent matches

Aim assist should be completely removed from all games to be blatantly honest.

The reason why aim assist exists is simply to make games less skilled and easier to play. And the reason why most people can't aim without aim assist is because they are so used to having a bot do majority of the work so once that bot is gone, their real aim begins to show.

Hence the reason why controller players never want to let go of their aim assist.

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11/29/2020

Ryan lfc 92

Marine - Gold

KnightFJS wrote:
Ryan lfc 92 wrote:
TinT LosT wrote:
MRPIRATEFOX wrote:
TinT LosT wrote:
get rid of aim assist in competitive modes, then, us keyboard warriors, wont have a reason to complain, we trained to get this good,
You dont have any reasons to complain. M&K is just better, and if you loose against a controller player, aim assist or not, you are just bad, just get over it. An average M&K player is slightly better than an average controller player just because the mouse precission, thats just a fact
cool story, but i said in competitive modes, casual and social games aim assist is fine, (competitive it isnt right to use unnatural assistance like aim assist), a great example were it is better than mouse and keyboard, (wiggle jumping) aim assist would help you keep on their head as they wiggle by crouching fast air borne, with a mouse this is not the case, high frequency movement with the mouse reduces aim accuracy, and i play both xbox and pc both have their flaws, but to be able to have no aim assist, the players would adjust as it is our human nature to adapt, =/ or do you not beleive in mankind?
thumbsticks need aim assist imo in order to be intuitive like m+k. halo 5 has really low aim assist on controller and its the worse aiming ive played. after 5 years, its still not fun for me. the right choice is to just not allow controllers to play with m+k in ranked so people can get consistent matches
Aim assist should be completely removed from all games to be blatantly honest.

The reason why aim assist exists is simply to make games less skilled and easier to play. And the reason why most people can't aim without aim assist is because they are so used to having a bot do majority of the work so once that bot is gone, their real aim begins to show.

Hence the reason why controller players never want to let go of their aim assist.

nope aim assist makes using a thumbstick bearable. and now because the aiming is consistent, players can pull of bigger moves with their movement in skilled ways that make the game fun which is what halo is about. halo should never be about struggling to aim with a thumbstick.

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11/29/2020

Cetra Lucindia

Marine - Onyx

Considering they worked so hard to implement input based matchmaking / crossplay into MCC i assume halo infinite will have at least that degree of functionality. Keyboard and mouse only really gives an advantage in team snipers and swat. every other game mode halo has with shields, a keyboard and mouse isnt going to be a gamebreaking advantage.

ive been slaughtering people on pc with a controller ever since reach hit pc and only feel like mouse has an advantage when everyone has a sniper rifle or in swat.

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