Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

Feelings on ADS

OP LH Justin

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I persomally find myself using classic scopes all the time, and that's when I'm not hip-firing.

ADS can leave and I'd be fine, but to compensaet for both fan types, maybe some short-range weapons (like SMG) should have ADS and long range (like BR) shouldn't.
No aim down sights please.
LH Justin wrote:
So say we return to classic gameplay. How would you feel if ADS (aim down sights) were to stay in the game? I always see people debating enhanced mobility so much and never hear anyone mention ADS so I want to know people's thoughts on it. Personally, I kind of like it.
As long as my control setup works like previous Halo titles where I can click my right stick to zoom in I'll be happy. ADS honestly is just a visual design choice. It only becomes different than zoom gameplay wise if you force it on a Trigger and to be held, which I am NOT for.
I persomally find myself using classic scopes all the time, and that's when I'm not hip-firing.

ADS can leave and I'd be fine, but to compensaet for both fan types, maybe some short-range weapons (like SMG) should have ADS and long range (like BR) shouldn't.
I exclusively use classic scopes in Warzone. I really don’t like my weapon taking up the bottom half of my screen.

If it is to return in Halo Infinite then hopefully there will be a setting to have classic scope on.
Nighterlev wrote:
That screenshot isn't even up to date at all with Halo 5, nor even with Halo MCC either. I'm not sure why you decided to instead compare the H5B, when we're actually comparing H5G. It's also quite clearly cherry picked, because of it's much smaller size then a full on 1080p image comparing both pictures. In fact, now that I have 2 monitors, I could probably do this myself.
In all Halos prior to 5 the entire screen was see-through when zoomed. In H5G, the center part/borders of the screen (depending) no longer is when ADSing. That is what the red borders are meant to showcase. The size of the weapon outline might have changed from the beta to the final game but that does not affect the point being made - there's still a non-see-through weapon model shoved in your face when you try to get an unobstructed view of the enemy.

Nighterlev wrote:
Here's another picture of the up to date H5 BR. Notice how much more area you can actually see.
Still less than 100%. Which was how much of the FoV was visible in earlier Halos.

Nighterlev wrote:
Yes, this is debate-able, we're debating it right now. What do you not understand here?
Flamebait aside, not it isn't debatable. A debate requires factual accuracy. You make false statements and are being corrected. That's not a debate.
Like, seriously, I mean that in the most literal sense possible: Anybody without a visual impairment can see that you're wrong. Classic zoom hat 100% visibility. The visibility with ADS changes from weapon to weapon depending on how much of the screen is covered, but all of them are less than 100%.
Your statement is on the same level as "The sky is red". That's not debatable. You just look at it and see that this isn't the case. End of story.

Nighterlev wrote:
Don't see how they do.
They. show. classic. zoom. being. transparent.

ADS. is. opaque.
Nighterlev wrote:
So, you show me a picture of the pistol pointing a an Elite from what I'd personally call "medium range", then you give me another picture of the Halo 5 Beta which by todays standards is incredibly out dated..Alright. Let me show you some real pictures instead - (I'll get the pictures once Halo 5 finishes installing on my little brother's Xbox. I'll edit this comment in a couple hours with the results, just want to post the comment now because it's such a long reply that a simple refresh could erase it all)
Translation: "Let me ignore what you said and just repeat what I said"
The Elite picture was meant to show that if you ADS while trying to shoot an enemy at medium range, I will cover 3/4 of his character model, obscuring the very thing you're trying to get a precise shot on.
The multiplayer picture shows that it only gets worse with increasing range, because the relative perceived size of the enemies gets smaller due to distance scaling, so at long range, it's more like ~90% being covered.
Disregarding the fact that you never edited your post with said pictures, you already have shown some "real pictures" and they still contradict your claim.

Nighterlev wrote:
Celestis wrote:
Halopedia seems to disagree there:
Don't you mean agree?
No, I don't.

Nighterlev wrote:
Note: I never stated the BR can't be used for "longer ranges" like the DMR or Sniper rifles, I've only stated the BR isn't meant for longer ranges at all.
Yes. And that statement is wrong, just like your statement about ADS.
It's a "Medium to Long" range weapon that is "most suited for [...] mid to long" range as clearly stated by Halopedia. That literally means that it's meant for any ranges from medium distance up to long distance.

Nighterlev wrote:
Rather it excels at close-medium ranged engagements, as everything Halo has implied.
No, it doesn't. Your very own link states: "In close quarters combat it is fairly surpassed by the Covenant carbine". (Which, by the way, is also a "medium to long-range weapon". So outside its own range it's even -Yoink- than another weapon that has the same range usage and isn't meant to be used in CQC.)

Nighterlev wrote:
Pretty sure 343 never said anything about the sniper rifles using "smart scope capabilities" at all. The only real relation is a new animation appears as if your "looking through the scope" but it's less then a second animation, which is pretty much exactly the same as it's always been.
What? That is smart-scope. You raise your weapon to the eye to look through the scope. That's literally the definition of the mechanic.
Also, Screenshot on Halopedia with the description "Smart Scope with the SRS99-S5AM in the Halo 5: Guardians Multiplayer Beta."
Nighterlev wrote:
So yes, by this logic, the DMR would be the closest example we have.
No. It's. Not.
Reach DMR.
H5G DMR.
The Reach DMR's edges were transparent. The H5G DMR does not have any peripheral vision whatsoever.
It's one of the worst offenders out of all of them. It literally covers half of the screen.
Nighterlev wrote:
I also find it hilarious how you're still using Halo 5 beta pictures, when you can easily find pictures of the full release so easily now (or better yet, just take them yourself).
It doesn't matter if it's from the Beta or not. The weapons have not become transparent in the final game. It still shows the exact same thing: PoV being obstructed, either in the middle of the screen or at the edges.
Seriously, I'm at a loss here. How on earth can I break this down to an even more fundamental level so you can understand it?
CLASSIC ZOOM WAS TRANSPARENT.
ADS IS OPAQUE.
It literally does not get any simpler than that. It can't. That's the most basic level there is to explain this on.

Nighterlev wrote:
Halo 5: Guardians isn't that much different in it's shooting,
ADS changes weapon spread. Classic zoom did not. (At least until Halo 4, which was 343's way of desensitizing people to ADS by implementing it piecemeal. Even so, for the first time ever, it applied this change to automatics which were never supposed to have zoom and this high accuracy in the first place. So yes, it does change how guns work in Halo drastically because it completely changes the very nature of usability of non-precision weapons. (I can't even call them "unscoped" weapons anymore).)

Nighterlev wrote:
moving,
Sprint does not allow you to move and shoot at max speed at the same time.

Nighterlev wrote:
or really any other mechanic at all.
Clamber prevents you from skilljumps as you have to face a wall and push a button to get on top.
ADSing in mid-air has you hover in place.

Nighterlev wrote:
It's so similiar that 343 even managed to create a Halo 1, 2, and 3 classic playlist inside of Halo 5, with the same movement and all that.
Which played nothing like the original games. Jesus Christ, the Halo CE playlist even had sprint. How do you actually believe what you're saying?

Nighterlev wrote:
If it did, please explain this picture. The zoom mechanic remains unchanged. It's just a different animation, that's literally it.
That's just the zoom factor and has nothing to do with the topic at hand. By that line of thought any and all games that have a 2x zoom factor would have the same shooting mechanics as (classic) Halo.

Nighterlev wrote:
This screenshot should be self explanatory as it is.The zoom mechanic has always increased your accuracy slightly, less bullet spread over-all. That's been a thing since Halo 1, so what are you going on about?
Are you drunk? That video shows the exact same spread for zoomed and unzoomed.
Hell, I can go even one beyond that: Data miners have already looked though the code of Halo 1, 2 and 3 and there is nothing in there that would make different spread for zoom even possible.
I hate ADS in Halo - one of the most pointless additions into this franchise. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Especially the pistol annoys the hell out of me because of this.
I think the style of ADS they have now both looks cool and is mostly unobtrusive. If it's a zoom and nothing more (increasing accuracy, etc) then I feel it'd be totally fine as long as the weapons they add it to make sense. As for hover, I think it should only be used on weapons that have actual scopes, ADS shouldn't affect hover if the weapon isn't supposed to be used with a scope.
I guess I'm one of the rare few day 1 fans that are completely fine with ADS.

Take it out and I'm fine with it as well. However, stating that going back to vanilla Halo (what do we even mean with that? Basic CE? grand daddy H2? Equipment enhanced H3?) is the way to get Halo back as the FPS top dog is just short sighted in my opinion. That's ignoring the fact that military shooters simply are more popular these days for starters. Halo as a series has simply reached that age where it'll never reach the peaks it once had, no matter what you do.
I feel the ADS is completely unneeded for weapons that already had zoom, and only works to erode halo's identity and the identity and function of the shorter-range weapons that were given ADS. Short-range weapons like the AR and SMG should stay short range. If they need tweaking in terms of effective range or TTK, then the ADS is certainly the wrong way to go about it.
DonVinzone wrote:
I guess I'm one of the rare few day 1 fans that are completely fine with ADS.

Take it out and I'm fine with it as well. However, stating that going back to vanilla Halo (what do we even mean with that? Basic CE? grand daddy H2? Equipment enhanced H3?) is the way to get Halo back as the FPS top dog is just short sighted in my opinion. That's ignoring the fact that military shooters simply are more popular these days for starters. Halo as a series has simply reached that age where it'll never reach the peaks it once had, no matter what you do.
But neither will CoD, Battlefield, Assassin's Creed, Crysis, Duke Nukem, etc. Those were titans of the era. Now all you need to make your game popular is cringy fads. I think I'm being obvious as to which game I'm talking about. The only franchise who I see to have managed to literally come back from the dead was DOOM. They came back better than ever and are, right now, developing the sequel that looks very promising, fun, faithful and nostalgic... basically, BETTER THAN THE FIRST DOOM (reboot), holy hell, how do you make your sequel better than a masterpiece?
The only franchise who I see to have managed to literally come back from the dead was DOOM. They came back better than ever and are, right now, developing the sequel that looks very promising, fun, faithful and nostalgic... basically, BETTER THAN THE FIRST DOOM (reboot), holy hell, how do you make your sequel better than a masterpiece?
You eccentuate what works well with your gameplay. It seems id understands what works in Doom and are doing everything in their power to make that shine. It's something 343 should have done in the first place with Halo, but hopefully are doing now with Infinite.
baaask wrote:
The only franchise who I see to have managed to literally come back from the dead was DOOM. They came back better than ever and are, right now, developing the sequel that looks very promising, fun, faithful and nostalgic... basically, BETTER THAN THE FIRST DOOM (reboot), holy hell, how do you make your sequel better than a masterpiece?
You eccentuate what works well with your gameplay. It seems id understands what works in Doom and are doing everything in their power to make that shine. It's something 343 should have done in the first place with Halo, but hopefully are doing now with Infinite.
I'm honestly still quite skeptical with the new Thruster Pack they added as well as that Grenade Flamethrower Launcher thing from the suit. But I like the SShotty's hook mechanic. Hopefully they can pull it off so well that justifies the additions or changes made. I strongly believe they will.
You're not wrong on that last sentence. Halo's classic formula worked well, but it was as soon as Bungie added that 4th element that everything went down the drain. I believe that things would have been different had Reach remained a full-classic Halo game, if you understand my intent. Yeah, there can still be those gimmicks of AAs, but maybe there would have been a different approach that would preserve the formula instead of changing it.
I'm not much of the creative type, but just imagine Reach without Sprint, Armor Lock(e) or Jetpack. It would have Drop Shield, Evade, Active Camo and Hologram. These abilities complement the classic formula better, and the other 3 do not. (I just noticed that there's 7 AAs in Reach...). You could argue with AL, but it's probably because I hate it. Maybe without these, the future of Halo would have been different.
Yes, I think that we should keep it. Alot of people started playing games like Halo 5 before the other Halo games because Halo 5 had it. I think it would work well if Infinite had i aswell.
DonVinzone wrote:
I guess I'm one of the rare few day 1 fans that are completely fine with ADS.

Take it out and I'm fine with it as well. However, stating that going back to vanilla Halo (what do we even mean with that? Basic CE? grand daddy H2? Equipment enhanced H3?) is the way to get Halo back as the FPS top dog is just short sighted in my opinion. That's ignoring the fact that military shooters simply are more popular these days for starters. Halo as a series has simply reached that age where it'll never reach the peaks it once had, no matter what you do.
But neither will CoD, Battlefield, Assassin's Creed, Crysis, Duke Nukem, etc. Those were titans of the era. Now all you need to make your game popular is cringy fads. I think I'm being obvious as to which game I'm talking about. The only franchise who I see to have managed to literally come back from the dead was DOOM. They came back better than ever and are, right now, developing the sequel that looks very promising, fun, faithful and nostalgic... basically, BETTER THAN THE FIRST DOOM (reboot), holy hell, how do you make your sequel better than a masterpiece?
Still, DOOM was really up to tastes. I really liked the og-Dooms but the new one isn't really my cup of tea. What helped Doom and Wolfenstein, I think, is that they both were old and so bare bones that they were easily converted into something modern. Plus, not having had sequels for so long also helps I guess.
Those games you mention are behemoths of a past Era. Same with MGS, Mario, GranTurismo etc. Thank God they're still around but its best not to expect anything special anymore.

Still hoping Infinite will be the best thing ever to the series... But I've come to terms with the fact nostalgia will always keep H2 as the best shooter ever and being 30 with a full time job means I don't even have time to invest that much time in gaming anymore. To me, things like ADS are fine because they don't make me feel like I'm still playing the same game as 18 years ago.
DonVinzone wrote:
I guess I'm one of the rare few day 1 fans that are completely fine with ADS.

Take it out and I'm fine with it as well. However, stating that going back to vanilla Halo (what do we even mean with that? Basic CE? grand daddy H2? Equipment enhanced H3?) is the way to get Halo back as the FPS top dog is just short sighted in my opinion. That's ignoring the fact that military shooters simply are more popular these days for starters. Halo as a series has simply reached that age where it'll never reach the peaks it once had, no matter what you do.
When people say go back, I think the majority of them are saying that style, not graphically wise. You can have the old style with an updated look pretty easily. As I've said, you could go for an Iron Man/Terminator type vibe with the old style, which I feel would look very cool.

As far as military shooters being more popular FPS these days, I have to disagree here. The newest Battlefield game hasn't lit the world on fire, far from it actually...the newest COD has done pretty good, but personally I wouldn't call it a pure military shooter. Kind of a mix of sci-fi military but I digress here and Titanfall 2 didn't do that great either.

The newest Doom on the other hand did very well and got high praises on many fronts and won multiple video game awards. Overwatch is FAR from a military FPS and it is EASILY the biggest, most popular FPS game on the market today.

So to say military FPS are the most popular thing currently just isn't true I feel, sorry.... and as far as Halo never being as big as it was, never is a long time bro. Things go in trends as we all know (remember when advanced movement was all the rage? Then it wasn't... Or FPS being anything but a world war games?) If a new Halo game is done right and is released at the right time, I see no reason why Halo can't be the top dog or in the conversation at least.

Like I said, never is a long time Spartan ;)
Dislike ads and they don't need to be in halo games imo
This is my vote. Halo 5 does it much better than other series (hate when you ADS on games, and all of a sudden you're in quick sand)... But the classic Halo style is the best.
No definitely not, at least not for precision weapons. I can't express how irritating it is for me to not be able to scope into a Carbine or a BR. They're two of my favorite guns and I still don't understand why their scopes were removed in favor of ads.
DonVinzone wrote:
I guess I'm one of the rare few day 1 fans that are completely fine with ADS.

Take it out and I'm fine with it as well. However, stating that going back to vanilla Halo (what do we even mean with that? Basic CE? grand daddy H2? Equipment enhanced H3?) is the way to get Halo back as the FPS top dog is just short sighted in my opinion. That's ignoring the fact that military shooters simply are more popular these days for starters. Halo as a series has simply reached that age where it'll never reach the peaks it once had, no matter what you do.
When people say go back, I think the majority of them are saying that style, not graphically wise. You can have the old style with an updated look pretty easily. As I've said, you could go for an Iron Man/Terminator type vibe with the old style, which I feel would look very cool.

As far as military shooters being more popular FPS these days, I have to disagree here. The newest Battlefield game hasn't lit the world on fire, far from it actually...the newest COD has done pretty good, but personally I wouldn't call it a pure military shooter. Kind of a mix of sci-fi military but I digress here and Titanfall 2 didn't do that great either.

The newest Doom on the other hand did very well and got high praises on many fronts and won multiple video game awards. Overwatch is FAR from a military FPS and it is EASILY the biggest, most popular FPS game on the market today.

So to say military FPS are the most popular thing currently just isn't true I feel, sorry.... and as far as Halo never being as big as it was, never is a long time bro. Things go in trends as we all know (remember when advanced movement was all the rage? Then it wasn't... Or FPS being anything but a world war games?) If a new Halo game is done right and is released at the right time, I see no reason why Halo can't be the top dog or in the conversation at least.

Like I said, never is a long time Spartan ;)
Ah well, I mean...I've been around the Bungie/Halo forums ever since H2. Seen people demand the CE pistol brought back, seen them complain about the field of view, then saw them complain about BRs, maps, Equipment/Armor Abilities/Spartan Abilities and what not. Saw them complain about graphics, music. Long story short: I've seen every part of any Halo title be ripped apart and demanded to be changed back to something else so many times that I honestly think a game like H5 is what you'd end up with as some sort of middle ground....like it or not. In the long run: where do we want to go back to, exactly? Go back to CE and its REALLY slow compared to today's standards. Go back to H2 and you get H3 fans angry. There are just too many definitions of what 'perfect' Halo was to go back to something that will universally please the fanbase.

Then you'll get to arena shooters not being as popular as back in the early 2000's anymore. And, lets not forget: the aspects that you don't control. Back with H2 there really wasn't any competition online on consoles, let alone on Xbox. Then came the popularity of military shooters, then came the popularity of battle royal etc etc etc. The original fanbase is 25/30+ by this point. All things that you don't control.
Halo still sells like crazy, but it just doesn't have the long breath it had back in the days. It might get back some shine, sure. But the heydays of H2/H3? Nah...won't count on that.
But...you can never be sure, you're right about that! ;)
DonVinzone wrote:
Ah well, I mean...I've been around the Bungie/Halo forums ever since H2. Seen people demand the CE pistol brought back, seen them complain about the field of view, then saw them complain about BRs, maps, Equipment/Armor Abilities/Spartan Abilities and what not. Saw them complain about graphics, music. Long story short: I've seen every part of any Halo title be ripped apart and demanded to be changed back to something else so many times that I honestly think a game like H5 is what you'd end up with as some sort of middle ground....like it or not
Yes, different people have complained about different things at different times, welcome to forums. It does not make substantive complaints any less valid. The forums are composed of a all kinds of Halo players with different preferences so context matters. Halo 5 being the "middle ground" is the games biggest flaw. Trying to please both classic and modern fans is a fool's errand, especially if you are a dev who widened that division in the first place. Commit to one direction with all your heart and let those who like it be happy and those who don't move on.
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In the long run: where do we want to go back to, exactly? Go back to CE and its REALLY slow compared to today's standards. Go back to H2 and you get H3 fans angry. There are just too many definitions of what 'perfect' Halo was to go back to something that will universally please the fanbase.
CE is "slow?" In what universe? It is still easily the fastest paced Halo game and not simply because of the Pistol. Putting that aside while they do have their differences, all 3 games still get lumped together with the "classic" label for good reason. At the end of the day despite all the differences in those first 3, big or small, that we could point out, the fundamentals haven't changed in any drastic manner. If Halo fans can handle the whiplash jumping around from Reach to Halo 4 to Halo 5 than finding a balance between CE, H2, and H3 should be small potatoes. Of course it seems difficult when both Bungie and 343 seem to go out of there way to learn the wrong lessons from criticisms.
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Then you'll get to arena shooters not being as popular as back in the early 2000's anymore. And, lets not forget: the aspects that you don't control. Back with H2 there really wasn't any competition online on consoles, let alone on Xbox. Then came the popularity of military shooters, then came the popularity of battle royal etc etc etc. The original fanbase is 25/30+ by this point. All things that you don't control.
The a particular subgenre doesn't need to dominate shooters as a whole in order for there to be a successful game/franchise within that particular subgenre. "Arena Shooters" do not need to be the market leaders in order for Halo to be successful. Hero shooters are not the current head of the pack in terms of trends but that hasn't stopped Overwatch from being wildly successful, or Rainbow Six for that matter if we want to stretch the definition. Gears still exists even while cover shooters are not as trendy anymore, etc, etc. The shooter genre is more diverse than it has ever been despite publishers and devs constantly playing follow the leader and the gaming market as a whole only keeps getting bigger.

The average age of the OG playerbase is irrelevant. People don't "age out" of gaming the way they might have in the early days of the medium even if they might have less time overall to play. More importantly there is no evidence to suggest there isn't a younger audience out there who might appreciate a new classic Halo game, mostly because we have not seen one released since 2007. Speaking of 2007, funny how we sort of just skip over Halo 3 being wildly successful with plenty of competition even at the height of the "military shooter" trend.
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Halo still sells like crazy, but it just doesn't have the long breath it had back in the days. It might get back some shine, sure. But the heydays of H2/H3? Nah...won't count on that.
But...you can never be sure, you're right about that! ;)
Who says it needs to be some sort of miraculous comeback. If its not going to gain much new ground and it still sells fine then you might as well make your OG audience happy rather than chasing new ones.
I was excited to use ADS in Halo 5, but as soon as I found that you couldn't use it with the 'Recon' controller layout, I went with 'Recon' all the way. If there is a way to incorporate ADS with the 'Recon' layout then I'd like to use it.
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