Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

Feelings on ADS

OP LH Justin

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Nighterlev wrote:
"obscures more of there vision"

Sorry..what? By this logic, the old zoom mechanic obscures the vision FAR MORE simply due to the black shade that covers everything else besides that they're looking at.
The new zoom mechanic is actually better, because it allows the user to see the entire screen and everything surrounding them, bit blurred but definitely not impossible to see like it was on the old zoom mechanic.
The old zoom never obscured anything. It only slightly darkened the scene around the reticle, but not enough to cause visibility issues as seen, for example here, here, and here. Nothing is obscured here. With the ADS, on the other hand, there's always a completely opaque object (the weapon) covering some part of the screen. The old zoom obstructs less of the screen than ADS, this is not debatable.

Nighterlev wrote:
ADS here gives you buffs in bullet spread and fire range
Yes..the old zoom mechanic also did this. Problem?
The only weapon that had both spread and zoom was the BR, and I don't know whether the spread was actually reduced, though I'm fairly confident it wasn't. In any case, I believe the point here is that automatics, for which the spread is most significant, didn't use to have zoom, which means that they've gotten buffs to their effective range in Halo 5.

Nighterlev wrote:
make the smart scope animation all around as fast as simply zooming in.
Which..it is? When I go back to previous Halo games, I don't find the zoom mechanic any faster, or slower then how it appears in Halo 5. Where is your evidence?
Actually, taking a quick look at the BR zoom in both Halo 5 and 3, in Halo 5 it seems to be 0.3 seconds, while in Halo 3 it's 0.2 seconds. I'd imagine differences are found on other weapons also, but haven't actually investigated further.

I do agree with the whole "let us turn it off/on" type of thing, but the different animations could also give 1 advantage over the other. You can't just "turn off smart scope" for the automatic weapons after all. Nor can you simply turn it off for things like the pistols, plasma pistol, etc. as the old zoom mechanic doesn't exactly have a "great replacement" for these weapons at all.

Nighterlev wrote:
Which makes it harder to see your target which obviously makes it harder to shoot it. The point of zooming in on your target is to see it better not obscure it lol So I don't see how you can't say it doesn't affect gameplay really because it does. If I had the old zoom style and you had the new zoom style and we were fighting, I have a much better chance of hitting you than you have a chance of hitting me because I can see you better.
Uh...what did I even just read? The 3D holographic sights that we now have do not interfere with zooming what so ever. It does the exact opposite actually. Also, if your talking about "making targets harder to see" then clearly you haven't seen the old zoom system..with the old zoom system, only a TINY part of the screen wouldn't be faded out. Everything else is faded out to black, making it impossible to see what's around you while zooming in.

In Halo 5, this does not happen, and only makes things around you slightly more blurry. Other then that, you can actually see more things now with the new zoom mechanic then you could with the old one 100%.
Again, you are mistaken about how the old zoom functioned, which I addressed above. The old zoom does not obscure any part of the screen. On the other hand, with ADS the weapon model obscures some of the screen while zoomed in.
tsassi wrote:
The old zoom never obscured anything. It only slightly darkened the scene around the reticle, but not enough to cause visibility issues as seen, for example here, here, and here. Nothing is obscured here.
Are you sure about that? The old zoom's shade alone obscures, and even makes it impossible to see certain parts of the map while zoomed in depending on the lighting/area/etc of the map it-self.
Here's screenshots supporting exactly what I already stated -
Halo 1 zoom (tons of blur used here, not exactly that hard to make things out, but everything does get blurred [depending on the color] into the map it-self. So a Spartan that is blue, would easily blend into the light bluish/white map while zooming in if they're at the corner)
Halo 2 classic zoom (notice to the left, and the right, where parts of the maps layout it-self is completely blacked out, you only being able to make out what it is via the background)
Halo 2 Anniversary zoom (slightly less blacked out in H2A then it is in H2C, but notice to the right where that section of the map is almost impossible to make out properly)
Halo 3 zoom (once again, very heavily blacked out like H2C's zoom is, only being able to make out certain details via the lights emitting off the map)
Halo 4's zoom (the zoom mechanic in H4 is actually much, much larger then it was in previous Halo's, with far less shade over-all. Although at the very corners of the screen, it's 100% black. Not enough to effect gameplay, but still noticeable) Here's another example of Halo 4's zoom mechanic, this time with a circle like previous Halo games. Again, notice how much larger the view point is over-all, while still being plagued with the "100% blacked out shade" that the BR sight is, at a far lesser extent though.

Halo 5 ..Huh. I'm able to see far more detail, the entire map it-self, being able to make out every single little detail on the map, along with even players if they were in the game just fine. No shade, no blur, nothing at all. Everything is completely visible while zooming in, besides the BR's hinges for the scope which don't obstruct the view point as much as the shade does in previous Halo game altogether. If you decide to argue with different scopes and such in Halo 5, at that point your completely going off topic with the default zoom mechanic's in each Halo game over-all. We're comparing the default zoom mechanics, not the tons of different scopes and such that exist in Halo 5. That's a topic for another day.

You could also argue "but no one playing these games is even going to notice those area's anyways", which, in my experience is also correct. I haven't seen a single competitive, or casual user complain about how the zoom mechanics work in each Halo game at all, at least I didn't until Halo 5 came out.
You just focus on the middle of your screen, not the sides, that's what zooming out is for. All people seem to complain about with H5 is the new animations which replace the old zoom mechanic, which to them look to much like ADS, even though the functionality of it is nothing like ADS at all.
tsassi wrote:
The only weapon that had both spread and zoom was the BR, and I don't know whether the spread was actually reduced, though I'm fairly confident it wasn't. In any case, I believe the point here is that automatics, for which the spread is most significant, didn't use to have zoom, which means that they've gotten buffs to their effective range in Halo 5.
As far as I know, the only weapons that actually have there spread reduced when aiming in, is the automatic weapons. BR, pistol, and CC spread isn't reduced at all. Although the range of each weapon is increased, but this has applied to every single Halo game thus far. When you zoom in, the range is increased. The only new addition to these "ranges being increased" would be the automatic weapons as far as I'm aware.

Although that isn't exactly the argument people are having, the argument people are having is whether or not this also applies to the MAG, BR, CC, etc. which it does not.
Nighterlev wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
Red III wrote:
i dislike ads less than spartan abilities and sprint. but id still prefer zoom to ads
I don't understand the difference between ads and zoom. It's an art change. That's it.
ADS is objectively worse for the player as it is both slower to activate and obscures more of their vision. It is a total downgrade in terms of usability. Not to mention giving every weapon in the game ADS is kind of a big deal when it used to be per weapon design choice.

You can prefer one over the other of course, but the differences are clearly there if you bother to look....
"obscures more of there vision"

Sorry..what? By this logic, the old zoom mechanic obscures the vision FAR MORE simply due to the black shade that covers everything else besides that they're looking at.
The new zoom mechanic is actually better, because it allows the user to see the entire screen and everything surrounding them, bit blurred but definitely not impossible to see like it was on the old zoom mechanic.

ADS here gives you buffs in bullet spread and fire range
Yes..the old zoom mechanic also did this. Problem?

However, smart scope ain't the same as classic zoom either! Worst cases have to be the shotgun and the energy sword lunge...
Uh..It's the exact same mechanic. Different animations, same mechanic. No difference what so ever.
The shotgun is more like the Halo 1 shotgun, and the energy sword is now more like a Halo 2 energy sword. Again, I don't see a problem with either of these cases.

make the smart scope animation all around as fast as simply zooming in.
Which..it is? When I go back to previous Halo games, I don't find the zoom mechanic any faster, or slower then how it appears in Halo 5. Where is your evidence?

I do agree with the whole "let us turn it off/on" type of thing, but the different animations could also give 1 advantage over the other. You can't just "turn off smart scope" for the automatic weapons after all. Nor can you simply turn it off for things like the pistols, plasma pistol, etc. as the old zoom mechanic doesn't exactly have a "great replacement" for these weapons at all.

Which makes it harder to see your target which obviously makes it harder to shoot it. The point of zooming in on your target is to see it better not obscure it lol So I don't see how you can't say it doesn't affect gameplay really because it does. If I had the old zoom style and you had the new zoom style and we were fighting, I have a much better chance of hitting you than you have a chance of hitting me because I can see you better.
Uh...what did I even just read? The 3D holographic sights that we now have do not interfere with zooming what so ever. It does the exact opposite actually. Also, if your talking about "making targets harder to see" then clearly you haven't seen the old zoom system..with the old zoom system, only a TINY part of the screen wouldn't be faded out. Everything else is faded out to black, making it impossible to see what's around you while zooming in.

In Halo 5, this does not happen, and only makes things around you slightly more blurry. Other then that, you can actually see more things now with the new zoom mechanic then you could with the old one 100%.
I have played Halo since CE. I know what the zooming looks like in every halo game.

Halo 5 ADS style zooming makes it way harder to see YOUR target on most weapons.I'm not talking about your surroundings nor are most people I think. Go play CE and zoom in on your target with the pistol. You can actually see your WHOLE target who your shooting. Now go zoom in with the pistol on Halo 5 on your target. The dumb holographic projection of my gun covers up almost 3/4 of the target im trying to shoot. I don't see how this is even debatable. Just go look at it them.

The holographic projection on most guns absolutely covers up a lot of your target. I'm not, repeat NOT talking about your surroundings here. I'm talking about your target, the individual you are trying to shoot. It's a terrible system in my opinion. As far as I'm concerned, if I'm a Spartan going into battle, why the heck would I want a holographic projection of my weapon showing up on my HUD while I'm zooming in on my target trying to shoot it???? It's ridiculous and makes zero sense! And don't get me started on melee weapons having zoom that increase there range, So dumb!!

There's a reason why the majority of people have no issue with THE LOOK of the AR in Halo 5 when zooming in, it's because it doesn't cover up your target and it acts more like (it's not though to be clear) the old zoom style.

The old system should be brought back and the look update. I've said this before, think Iron Man or Terminator when they zoom in on a target. Information is up on the screen on the sides giving the user information. Stuff like this, That's what I want. In my opinion it would look freaking amazing if done right. I also want melee weapons to not have any form of zoom.
Nighterlev wrote:
Are you sure about that? The old zoom's shade alone obscures, and even makes it impossible to see certain parts of the map while zoomed in depending on the lighting/area/etc of the map it-self.
Here's screenshots supporting exactly what I already stated -
Halo 1 zoom (tons of blur used here, not exactly that hard to make things out, but everything does get blurred [depending on the color] into the map it-self. So a Spartan that is blue, would easily blend into the light bluish/white map while zooming in if they're at the corner)
Halo 2 classic zoom (notice to the left, and the right, where parts of the maps layout it-self is completely blacked out, you only being able to make out what it is via the background)
Halo 2 Anniversary zoom (slightly less blacked out in H2A then it is in H2C, but notice to the right where that section of the map is almost impossible to make out properly)
Halo 3 zoom (once again, very heavily blacked out like H2C's zoom is, only being able to make out certain details via the lights emitting off the map)
Not in any of these would an enemy player go unseen. Even the darker areas are very clearly visible. All of these pictures support exactly what I was saying. Have you considered you might have bad display settings? I noticed a difference in how dark the dark areas appear when putting the images on my other screen.

Nighterlev wrote:
Halo 4's zoom (the zoom mechanic in H4 is actually much, much larger then it was in previous Halo's, with far less shade over-all. Although at the very corners of the screen, it's 100% black. Not enough to effect gameplay, but still noticeable) Here's another example of Halo 4's zoom mechanic, this time with a circle like previous Halo games. Again, notice how much larger the view point is over-all, while still being plagued with the "100% blacked out shade" that the BR sight is, at a far lesser extent though.
Yes, you're correct, the Halo 4 zoom mechanic, at least on the BR, is terrible, and not an exampe of a proper implementation of classic zoom.

Nighterlev wrote:
Halo 5 ..Huh. I'm able to see far more detail, the entire map it-self, being able to make out every single little detail on the map, along with even players if they were in the game just fine. No shade, no blur, nothing at all. Everything is completely visible while zooming in, besides the BR's hinges for the scope which don't obstruct the view point as much as the shade does in previous Halo game altogether.
That's roughly a ninth of the total screen area obstructed completely. Of course it's not going to be the entire screen, but it's still going to be a blind spot, and it's still more obstructive than classic zoom where 100% of the screen is clearly visible (again, ignoring Halo 4).

Nighterlev wrote:
You could also argue "but no one playing these games is even going to notice those area's anyways", which, in my experience is also correct. I haven't seen a single competitive, or casual user complain about how the zoom mechanics work in each Halo game at all, at least I didn't until Halo 5 came out.
You just focus on the middle of your screen, not the sides, that's what zooming out is for. All people seem to complain about with H5 is the new animations which replace the old zoom mechanic, which to them look to much like ADS, even though the functionality of it is nothing like ADS at all.
I'm sure there's some mental blindness going on where people don't consciously pay attention to the shaded area of the screen, and you can block it out without them noticing as we saw in Halo 4. However, to say that people don't use the shaded area would be false, since even if the player is focusing at the center of the screen, they will notice all movement that happens at the periphery.

Clearly, the reason Halo 5 gained so much attention regarding its zoom mechanic is because it changed drastically how weapon zoom worked. However, there's good reason to dislike the Halo 5 zoom, because as we've seen, it offers inferior visibility compared to the classic zoom.
I'm fine with it provided it doesn't change a weapon's projectile spread or recoil or any of those properties. I'd also be fine with it if Smart-Scope were to completely alter the weapon's properties, like the LightRifle's switch from the higher-RoF four-shot when unscoped to a lower-RoF three-shot when using the scope.
I'd love for smart scope to modify CERTAIN weapons. Mainly promethean but possibly some covie and UNSC weapons too
LH Justin wrote:
So say we return to classic gameplay. How would you feel if ADS (aim down sights) were to stay in the game? I always see people debating enhanced mobility so much and never hear anyone mention ADS so I want to know people's thoughts on it. Personally, I kind of like it.
It adds absolutely nothing to the game and - if anything - makes long-range combat less effective due to generally not magnifying the screen as far and sticking pieces of metal and other crap in your face. The only reason why ADS exists in Halo 5: Guardians is because much more popular shooters do it out of expectation.
While I don't like ADS, I would accept it if it were restricted to clicking the right thumbstick like in previous Halo's rather than left trigger like COD and other shooters.
While I don't like ADS, I would accept it if it were restricted to clicking the right thumbstick like in previous Halo's rather than left trigger like COD and other shooters.
You know, you can do that. It's a controller configuration (that I tried to adjust to but couldn't)
While I don't like ADS, I would accept it if it were restricted to clicking the right thumbstick like in previous Halo's rather than left trigger like COD and other shooters.
You know, you can do that. It's a controller configuration (that I tried to adjust to but couldn't)
I know you can, but I dont want the left trigger to be an option at all. The aiming mechanic should stay true to previous Halo titles not become corrupted by modern trends.
While I don't like ADS, I would accept it if it were restricted to clicking the right thumbstick like in previous Halo's rather than left trigger like COD and other shooters.
You know, you can do that. It's a controller configuration (that I tried to adjust to but couldn't)
I know you can, but I dont want the left trigger to be an option at all. The aiming mechanic should stay true to previous Halo titles not become corrupted by modern trends.
It ends up being easier. ADS is handled much different than Zoom and you're more dependent on it. Some people, like myself, would have a very hard time adjusting to such thing. I, in particular, find it weird to aim down a gun's sight using the thumbstick. Yes, it works on Snipers and H2BRs, but other weapons like the Assault Rifle just feel weird and out of place.
While I don't like ADS, I would accept it if it were restricted to clicking the right thumbstick like in previous Halo's rather than left trigger like COD and other shooters.
You know, you can do that. It's a controller configuration (that I tried to adjust to but couldn't)
I know you can, but I dont want the left trigger to be an option at all. The aiming mechanic should stay true to previous Halo titles not become corrupted by modern trends.
Okay but some of us like the option? I'm glad you want to ruin everyone else's ability to enjoy the game.
While I don't like ADS, I would accept it if it were restricted to clicking the right thumbstick like in previous Halo's rather than left trigger like COD and other shooters.
So you don't like ADS - something that was added to appeal to those who play those other shooters - but you'd be fine with it being there as long as it wasn't mapped to the button those shooters use?

I think having ADS is a bigger problem than how it's mapped.
While I don't like ADS, I would accept it if it were restricted to clicking the right thumbstick like in previous Halo's rather than left trigger like COD and other shooters.
You know, you can do that. It's a controller configuration (that I tried to adjust to but couldn't)
I know you can, but I dont want the left trigger to be an option at all. The aiming mechanic should stay true to previous Halo titles not become corrupted by modern trends.
Corrupted? Really?
While I don't like ADS, I would accept it if it were restricted to clicking the right thumbstick like in previous Halo's rather than left trigger like COD and other shooters.
You know, you can do that. It's a controller configuration (that I tried to adjust to but couldn't)
I know you can, but I dont want the left trigger to be an option at all. The aiming mechanic should stay true to previous Halo titles not become corrupted by modern trends.
Corrupted? Really?
It's a fitting term. Most of the decisions made by 343i/Microsoft with the Halo brand since 2012 have been in the name of dumbing everything down in order to sell it to a wider audience. Sprint, perks, killstreaks, increased bullet magnetism, etc. are all examples of following trends making the game worse from a competitive standpoint. Modern Halo holds your hand way more than the older games did.
While I don't like ADS, I would accept it if it were restricted to clicking the right thumbstick like in previous Halo's rather than left trigger like COD and other shooters.
You know, you can do that. It's a controller configuration (that I tried to adjust to but couldn't)
I know you can, but I dont want the left trigger to be an option at all. The aiming mechanic should stay true to previous Halo titles not become corrupted by modern trends.
Corrupted? Really?
It's a fitting term. Most of the decisions made by 343i/Microsoft with the Halo brand since 2012 have been in the name of dumbing everything down in order to sell it to a wider audience. Sprint, perks, killstreaks, increased bullet magnetism, etc. are all examples of following trends making the game worse from a competitive standpoint. Modern Halo holds your hand way more than the older games did.
Sprint was added in 2010 with Reach.
While I don't like ADS, I would accept it if it were restricted to clicking the right thumbstick like in previous Halo's rather than left trigger like COD and other shooters.
You know, you can do that. It's a controller configuration (that I tried to adjust to but couldn't)
I know you can, but I dont want the left trigger to be an option at all. The aiming mechanic should stay true to previous Halo titles not become corrupted by modern trends.
Corrupted? Really?
It's a fitting term. Most of the decisions made by 343i/Microsoft with the Halo brand since 2012 have been in the name of dumbing everything down in order to sell it to a wider audience. Sprint, perks, killstreaks, increased bullet magnetism, etc. are all examples of following trends making the game worse from a competitive standpoint. Modern Halo holds your hand way more than the older games did.
Sprint was added in 2010 with Reach.
The way Halo: Reach implemented sprint made it so it wasn't always an option. If you chose any other ability then you couldn't use it while in Halo 4 and Halo 5: Guardians running away is always an option.

When I said "sprint" I should've clarified that I was referring to it as it's used on other shooters.
I get both sides a lot better know, but my question to the anti-ads and anti sprinters is this: what would you do differently from 343 without traveling backwards 10+ years in terms of tech and visual effects?
I get both sides a lot better know, but my question to the anti-ads and anti sprinters is this: what would you do differently from 343 without traveling backwards 10+ years in terms of tech and visual effects?
This seems like a loaded question. What do you mean by going backwards in terms of tech and visual effects? Sprint and ADS are themselves 10+ year old mechanics. They're not exactly cutting edge technology. I don't see how removing those two mechanics would be "traveling backwards 10+ years in terms of tech and visual effects". There is so much more to technology and visual effects in games than player animations. Even if you think that a zoom animation and a runnuing animation are the pinnacle of technology in video games, others might not. I, for one, don't care that much about fancy animations in first person shooters. Sure, if a mechanic that would be there anyway has a good animation, go ahead, but I don't want animations for sake of animations, and I definitely don't want animations that make the gameplay less fun. I appreciate the technology elsewhere, like in the beautiful vistas, and impressive physics. I appreciate technology and visual effects that make the world around me feel more alive. As far as my inputs to the game are concerned, there's a long list of things that are more important than pretty visuals.

To answer your question consicely:
  • There is more to technology and visuals than animation. Even if all Spartan Abilities were removed, I would not regard that as traveling back ten years.
  • Good gamplay design is timeless. The ultimate goal of technology in video games is reached when we realize that we don't need to implement all these flashy animations just because we can to make a fun game.
One nice thing about the ADS is the fact that we can have guns with unusual sites on them. Like an ar with a dmr scope. Honestly those were probably made just to pad out the loot boxes though. I really wanted to play with those different guns in the campaign, but sadly a lot of 343's multiplayer features don't make it into campaign. Imagine being able to select a load out for a campaign mission, or being able to call in a drop pod with a rocket launcher, or activating a special stealth ability. I know some of this stuff made it into campaign, but not enough of it. Really Halo 4 should have had the req drops happen in the campaign and or spartan opps.

Odd Post short,
I think it's okay overall, but would be a better feature for customizing campaign experience rather than MP.
I get both sides a lot better know, but my question to the anti-ads and anti sprinters is this: what would you do differently from 343 without traveling backwards 10+ years in terms of tech and visual effects?
I... don't understand the question frankly. 🙃

What would we have done during H4's development in graphical terms? Or is it more about the gameplay changes introduced in H5? Or both about the next installment: How we want Hi to work in terms of zooming, advanced movement and graphical effects? In any case Tsassi is right, it's a loaded question to say the least! XD
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