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Halo Community is Halo's biggest problem

OP TheCiscoKid0

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Darwi wrote:
Darwi wrote:
Some of the people criticizing what's been shown have been playing Halo longer than some defending it have been alive.
And it didn't take long. Toxic community in practice... exhibit A.
If you take issue with what I said, please provide an actual response beyond a dismissive buzzword.
Somewhat sarcastic comment. All you had to do was add that you couldn't possibly be a 'true' halo fan and you've paraphrased the majority of toxic commentators.
Again, buzzword (and the same one you edited out of your previous reply).

There's no such thing as a "true" fan of anything as being a fan simply requires liking something. What I was saying was that if someone has more years of experience with something than someone else, chances are they have a better understanding of what they're talking about.
I've been playing Halo since the beginning (2001) and gaming longer than that. I'm excited for Halo Infinite and I don't agree with all of the people complaining various things. So if you give extra weight to people with "more years of experience", than you've got to give the same weight to my opinions. Since there very much opposed to a lot of the other "experienced" people's opinion, then you've got to conclude that experience doesn't really mean much in this arena. The OP is right, ever since Halo 2, or especially Halo 3 onwards, there have been "fans" vocally complaining about every minute thing you can imagine. You can listen to them, but you certainly can't please them all because there is no consensus on anything.
RBaziFX, Porcin3 Proph3t this is not a topic about the pros and cons of pc gaming. Keep on topic or take it to private message.
olanmills wrote:
Darwi wrote:
Darwi wrote:
Some of the people criticizing what's been shown have been playing Halo longer than some defending it have been alive.
And it didn't take long. Toxic community in practice... exhibit A.
If you take issue with what I said, please provide an actual response beyond a dismissive buzzword.
Somewhat sarcastic comment. All you had to do was add that you couldn't possibly be a 'true' halo fan and you've paraphrased the majority of toxic commentators.
Again, buzzword (and the same one you edited out of your previous reply).

There's no such thing as a "true" fan of anything as being a fan simply requires liking something. What I was saying was that if someone has more years of experience with something than someone else, chances are they have a better understanding of what they're talking about.
I've been playing Halo since the beginning (2001) and gaming longer than that. I'm excited for Halo Infinite and I don't agree with all of the people complaining various things. So if you give extra weight to people with "more years of experience", than you've got to give the same weight to my opinions. Since there very much opposed to a lot of the other "experienced" people's opinion, then you've got to conclude that experience doesn't really mean much in this arena. The OP is right, ever since Halo 2, or especially Halo 3 onwards, there have been "fans" vocally complaining about every minute thing you can imagine. You can listen to them, but you certainly can't please them all because there is no consensus on anything.
Same here.

Very excited for Infinite.

Hoping that the graphical glitches (pop in, lighting, textures) get a polish and shine... and can't wait to see what MP / Forge have in store.

After tasting the joys of the mega sprint thread I should have expected the de-evolution here... but hopefully it will improve.
olanmills wrote:
Darwi wrote:
Darwi wrote:
Some of the people criticizing what's been shown have been playing Halo longer than some defending it have been alive.
And it didn't take long. Toxic community in practice... exhibit A.
If you take issue with what I said, please provide an actual response beyond a dismissive buzzword.
Somewhat sarcastic comment. All you had to do was add that you couldn't possibly be a 'true' halo fan and you've paraphrased the majority of toxic commentators.
Again, buzzword (and the same one you edited out of your previous reply).

There's no such thing as a "true" fan of anything as being a fan simply requires liking something. What I was saying was that if someone has more years of experience with something than someone else, chances are they have a better understanding of what they're talking about.
I've been playing Halo since the beginning (2001) and gaming longer than that. I'm excited for Halo Infinite and I don't agree with all of the people complaining various things. So if you give extra weight to people with "more years of experience", than you've got to give the same weight to my opinions. Since there very much opposed to a lot of the other "experienced" people's opinion, then you've got to conclude that experience doesn't really mean much in this arena. The OP is right, ever since Halo 2, or especially Halo 3 onwards, there have been "fans" vocally complaining about every minute thing you can imagine. You can listen to them, but you certainly can't please them all because there is no consensus on anything.
I was the same way back when I didn't know any better with Halo 2. I hated how they changed how sniping became easier, increased aim assist, vehicle driving physics, destructible vehicles, the shift in focus to asymmetrical multi-player maps and game modes like assault and 1-flag ctf, the lack of the pistol, the crosshair being lowered on the screen, grenade physics, removing health bars, rocket lock ons, plasma weapons not slowing down their target, charged plasma pistols increased tracking, multiplayer time limits, all of these things fundamentally changed Halo so much to the point where I still think Halo CE has the least in common with any of the other Halo games. I could have nitpicked for days. However now I love Halo 2, 3, Reach and realize that Halo is one of the only major shooter franchises that changes a lot with each release and that its going to anger fans who love a certain one the most. People on here complaining about sprint and hit markers reminds me of my old self, the vocal minority who want the game to be tailor made for them.
With all due respect OP... I think you are part of the problem with the halo community... if there is a problem. We can use our judgment of whatever experiences we had to judge those very expereinces. So, based on the "5 min of gameplay" we have seen, we can judge what watching that 5 min of gameplay felt like... what our gripes and contentions are watching it.. and express them. You may sing your songs of praise, thats no issue either. But something I wont stand to watch is when you come after other community members in a sense and somewhat imply if you have a negative opinion you shouldnt express it. Surely of course, there are people who take it to the extreme and end up doing the very thing that im condemning here in the reverse manner, and I dont stand for that either. Understand, halo is a franchise that is beloved by a great deal of folks... folks like me who literally consider it part of my identity. So yes, when they change things up, I am concerned... because something I identified with is shifting, and im basically losing a part of myself if I shift with the change.

To people who have a similar experience. Understand we are under no kind of lawful binding or contract with 343 for them to care about that at all...
although i would argue morally speaking, consideration of this by 343 would be very appreciated.

That is all I ask for. Consider that what halo was is important to us to the point where we feel very passionate about it.
Some people have trouble finding a way to express this. Try to be considerate and help them out.
Just as you, a long time fan, felt the need to keep something beloved to yourself alive and came after people who you thought were destroying halo in a sense...
Understand people express the same feelings when they complain... because they feel like a part of their identity is being manipulated.

Change is inevitable. But as many say, the essence, the soul, or the identity is something that should be grown, not mutated or disfigured beyond recognition.
Yes its very ambiguos language. lol. But essentially what i am saying is , a vibe check with the community on what they feel is happening with the franchise and univerese is a good idea... even if their remarks are largely negative and harsh. Hearing them out alone can go a long way.
There are people who dont want to grow up... there are people who dont want to adapt and change... a problem that permeates alot of society... but then there are people who just want to preserve the ideals and notions of their history.

My goal, and I think your goal as well, should be to shift the paradigm (dont know if i spelled that right) and instead of kind of excluding or blaming these people, attempt to help them realize a dead halo is as bad as a disfigured one... and compromises have to be made. There is a way to attempt to preserve this magic you try to protect.

You actually have no moral obligation to do this at all.. but given the problem you highlighted, i think it is in your best interest to bridge the gaps... rather than exclude parts of the community.
I think the biggest issue with this community is that they try to define what halo is. When 343 added thrusters and ADS, people complained because it “wasn’t halo”. When halo Reach added armor abilities people complained because “this isn’t halo”. Hell I still remember people complaining about the arbiter because “that isn’t halo”.

The issue with the halo community, and gaming in general is everyone has their own idea of not only what makes halo good, but what makes Halo, Halo. To some people Halo is a complex story driven game with little focus on multiplayer. To some Halo is a fast paced sweaty multiplayer experience where the best prove themselves. To some it’s just a fun place to screw around with the forge sandbox. And you want to know what? Every single one of those is good. Halo constantly evolves, and the sooner the community lets go of what they believe to be “Halo” the better. No two people are the same. Likewise no two games are the same. It’s all unique in its own way. Everyone here has their own favorite halo game. And that’s wonderful. But stop trying to hard to change Halo infinite to what you believe is best. Because 5 years from now there will be people saying halo infinite is their favorite. Just like people say halo reach is their favorite despite being so controversial.

TL;DR: Stop trying to define what halo is and judging other games when they go outside your definition.
idk why it surprises some people when fans give feedback to the new halo gameplay. People have certain expectations when playing a halo game. 343 has made such extreme changes to halo, that 343 halo games don't even feel or play like halo games.
RBaziFX wrote:
Ken2379 wrote:
Genuinely think that is most gaming communities to be honest.

So many entitled and toxic gamers. Will try not to be too critical, I used to be one of them.

The game looks mad fun and I can't wait to play it. Currently I'm a little torn between XSeriesX and PS5, they've both revealed far too little info to make a reasonable decision yet. But Halo Infinite along with the quality of the gamepass has me leaning hard towards the XSX for now. Pricing and launch titles will be very important for me though so I'm very keen to see what they drop.
Go with a pc, it will outlast both consoles and you'll have far more to choose from as games go.
while true, you are not considering a lot of variables. PC's need a dedicated space (if they don't have an office or desk already) they are also not plug in play and require additional hardware . While I think the investment is work it, not everyone wants that kind of system for gaming.
I would disagree. You can use your PC just as you would a console by plugging it into your TV. And if you REALLY wanted to, you could just use a wireless controller and chill on the couch while playing on your PC just as you would an Xbox.
I think the biggest problem is nostalgia, players have memories of good times when playing their favourite Halo and they want it back, or to continue. I said this before, with release of Reach the Halo that was once loved changed forever. The community is not the biggest problem imo, as a community we're just all different, and thankfully too, otherwise it's 1984.
I think some people forget that a community can be misrepresented by trolls, or people who voice their opinion without being genuinely concerned about whatever the community is centered around. Some may say they care about the topic, but they do not show it. Instead, they show interest in themselves. I've noticed this problem across the internet, about many different things. When judging a community, you first have to understand what that community is based on. Then you can see how well they respect the fundamentals of the topic. This isn't to say differing opinions can't exist, but some people are clearly more interested in themselves and their selfish desires, than what's good for the topic they are referring to. Many people will do and say things that only benefit themselves, even at the expense of what they say they care about.

This thread is more of a discussion of Halo in general, and this post is very broad. But I felt the need to say this, because I see it as a major issue. We should be focusing on what Halo is at its core, and less about how we personally feel about Halo. If that happens, we can see what works, and what doesn't. Halo should be Halo, and Halo Infinite doesn't need to be anything but a good Halo game.
saifa117 wrote:
With all due respect OP... I think you are part of the problem with the halo community... if there is a problem. We can use our judgment of whatever experiences we had to judge those very expereinces. So, based on the "5 min of gameplay" we have seen, we can judge what watching that 5 min of gameplay felt like... what our gripes and contentions are watching it.. and express them. You may sing your songs of praise, thats no issue either. But something I wont stand to watch is when you come after other community members in a sense and somewhat imply if you have a negative opinion you shouldnt express it. Surely of course, there are people who take it to the extreme and end up doing the very thing that im condemning here in the reverse manner, and I dont stand for that either. Understand, halo is a franchise that is beloved by a great deal of folks... folks like me who literally consider it part of my identity. So yes, when they change things up, I am concerned... because something I identified with is shifting, and im basically losing a part of myself if I shift with the change.

To people who have a similar experience. Understand we are under no kind of lawful binding or contract with 343 for them to care about that at all...
although i would argue morally speaking, consideration of this by 343 would be very appreciated.

That is all I ask for. Consider that what halo was is important to us to the point where we feel very passionate about it.
Some people have trouble finding a way to express this. Try to be considerate and help them out.
Just as you, a long time fan, felt the need to keep something beloved to yourself alive and came after people who you thought were destroying halo in a sense...
Understand people express the same feelings when they complain... because they feel like a part of their identity is being manipulated.

Change is inevitable. But as many say, the essence, the soul, or the identity is something that should be grown, not mutated or disfigured beyond recognition.
Yes its very ambiguos language. lol. But essentially what i am saying is , a vibe check with the community on what they feel is happening with the franchise and univerese is a good idea... even if their remarks are largely negative and harsh. Hearing them out alone can go a long way.
There are people who dont want to grow up... there are people who dont want to adapt and change... a problem that permeates alot of society... but then there are people who just want to preserve the ideals and notions of their history.

My goal, and I think your goal as well, should be to shift the paradigm (dont know if i spelled that right) and instead of kind of excluding or blaming these people, attempt to help them realize a dead halo is as bad as a disfigured one... and compromises have to be made. There is a way to attempt to preserve this magic you try to protect.

You actually have no moral obligation to do this at all.. but given the problem you highlighted, i think it is in your best interest to bridge the gaps... rather than exclude parts of the community.
By no means do I want to make it a point to exclude those who voice genuine concerns within reasonable premise, but I'd be lying if I said those who already flat out discredit infinite and are actively condemning this game are coming from any reasonable standpoint. Hell I had the same mindset about 1 year after Halo 5. All I simply wish the community would do is one, wait till we've been shown all aspects of the game, and two, if there is something included they are not fond of, not to bash the game or anyone who likes the game. And I've seen much more bashing than constructive criticism by far and that. -yoink- is beyond toxic. I too would've liked to not see sprint in Infinite or the grapple or even sliding/clamber, but I don't choose to throw this game down a hole because of a few mechanics, that quite frankly look improved compared to H5. Halo used to be about buying and playing a fun Halo game and that's what this looks to be so far, but now the community is littered with people who have different preferences of how Halo should be, and who want a picture perfect masterpiece in THIER exact image, which is ridiculous. No other gaming community has this lingering sense of entitlement swirling around it. Thank you for being civil in your response.
WerepyreND wrote:
343 doesn't deserve any sympathy for having to deal with a "variety" of Halo fan when they created this situation in the first place. I really tired of portions of the community playing corporate defender and constantly trying to deflect criticism by framing the community as being "picky" or "unappreciative" of 343's position.
Look man, I seriously don't care enough to defend 343 for anything. We all know how Halo 4/5 turned out. I personally hated gameplay in both if I'm honest, but 343 did not start with a decided fan base. There were just as many if not more fans of Reach than not, those who like the idea of sprint and damn near demanded it. Halo 4 I'm a lil more lenient about considering it was their first Halo game, but Halo 5 on the other hand they have no excuse. They have then since been improving with Halo I believe though. We got a great story in Wars 2 and now more sandbox based gameplay in Infinite. I never said once that criticism should be deflected but I stand by the statement that it is ridiculous to condemn Infinite this early on.
Well, I can agree that there are vocal toxic elements of the Halo fan base, certainly. Here on the forums, they're disproportionately loud and dominant, but it's easy for us to forget aeound here that we represent a small chunk of the total Halo player base that even exists today, let alone the all-time Halo community.

We're a small subset of fans who are not only extremely passionate about the games, but also who feel like we've got matters to discuss and debate. Naturally, within this very small and very vocal sample size of fans, there's going to be disproportionate amounts of less-than-productive nostalgia trips and airing of gripes, legitimate or otherwise. I'm not defending the toxic and counterproductive elements, but I am saying that it isn't reasonable to expect them to simply not exist in a place like a niche fan forum.

343i indubitably catches a lot of flak on the forums from a lot of butthurt OT fanboys, sometimes in the form of legitimate criticism and sometimes in the form of poorly thought out lambasting. In the other corner, though, we can see a concerted audience of "343 can do no wrong," folks who are suffering from a very similar tunnel-vision issue.

Criticism is fair, appropriate, and useful when presented with respect and considered with an open mind. I think it's important to try to give 343i credit where it is due (MCC is getting better all the time and I think the a Infinite campaign demo looks fun gameplay wise, for example) and criticism where it is warranted (MCC took five years to get truly good and the Infinite demo looks graphically quite behind industry standards, for examples of what I believe are fair critiques.)

Is the toxic, non productive, element of the community a problem? Yes. Is it something we can reasonably expect not to encounter or to entirely dispense with on a fan forum? No. But take heart: the mods are pretty active here on Waypoint and very regularly intervene when they deem appropriate on non-productive spam. Sometimes I even think they're bit overzealous on this front, but if you're concerned about flame wars and directionless toxicity, it's certainly something that's constantly watched over by the site mods.
343 has a spotty track record, and seem to mess up on the important thing about Halo, H4’s multiplayer, H5’s campaign, and MCC was horribly broken and launch and even still has issues to this day (though it has improved considerably).
saifa117 wrote:
Halo used to be about buying and playing a fun Halo game and that's what this looks to be so far, but now the community is littered with people who have different preferences of how Halo should be, and who want a picture perfect masterpiece in THIER exact image, which is ridiculous. No other gaming community has this lingering sense of entitlement swirling around it. Thank you for being civil in your response.
This indeed happens to be case more often than id like to admit. And thank you for being civil in your response as well.
However, im very sure there are other gaming communities that have an even more "entitled" community than halo. . . but certainly pertaining to the games I play and engage with its community , halo seems to stand out.

There is a way to fix that issue of people wanting that perfect master peice... if the forge is good enough, and the customization for gameplay options soophisticated enough, you should be able to fine tune a game to anybodies liking... and if you arent happy with the assets in the game... you can take it a step further with mod support... and now halo can literally be anything you like if you have the people willing to do the work for it.
Top that off with a custom games search feature and the return of file share... and I think we got ourselves something that is very hard to complain about lol.

Thats my two cents on how to solve that problem.
WerepyreND wrote:
343 doesn't deserve any sympathy for having to deal with a "variety" of Halo fan when they created this situation in the first place. I really tired of portions of the community playing corporate defender and constantly trying to deflect criticism by framing the community as being "picky" or "unappreciative" of 343's position.
Look man, I seriously don't care enough to defend 343 for anything. We all know how Halo 4/5 turned out. I personally hated gameplay in both if I'm honest, but 343 did not start with a decided fan base. There were just as many if not more fans of Reach than not, those who like the idea of sprint and damn near demanded it. Halo 4 I'm a lil more lenient about considering it was their first Halo game, but Halo 5 on the other hand they have no excuse. They have then since been improving with Halo I believe though. We got a great story in Wars 2 and now more sandbox based gameplay in Infinite. I never said once that criticism should be deflected but I stand by the statement that it is ridiculous to condemn Infinite this early on.
Citation needed for bold, but I digress. Even if we go with the idea that they inherited Halo with a fractured fanbase they are the ones who chose to double down on almost all of Reach's most controversial aspects in Halo 4 and then some. They chose to widen the gap between the fanbase not once but twice and thus deserve no sympathy for their position.

You didn't say that criticism should be deflected. You actively were deflecting criticism by stating that the community doesn't appreciate how "picky" we are and how "difficult" it is for 343 while implying that any meaningful number of fans are "condemning" infinite rather than simply stating there disappointments and concerns. Whether you intended to or not you are shifting the criticism from 343 back onto some disappointed fans for expressing their disappointment and worry. For someone asking the community to appreciate that 343 is "trying to make everyone love Halo again" laying blame at the feet of the community inherently divisive. Why would anyone want to be part of a community with someone making such broad sweeping statements about how "picky" the community concerns after seeing the first look of a game coming out in 4 months?

For my part aside from Halo Wars 2(which while good was blighted someone by lootboxes) I haven't seen much "improvement" from my perspective. Many of the problems I have had with 343 Halo gameplay and visuals still remain even if you are not personally bothered by them. I am of course hoping to be surprised and end up with a great Halo game again, but based on my own experience with 343 the hope I do have is pretty minuscule.
We just need to chill out and let Microsoft and 343 finish the game and then we can judge how we think the game could be better that's at least my opinion no need for everyone to be bent out of shape over something that most likely can be fixed, improved, or added later.
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Yeah let´s ignore all the things that have happened in the last six years, there are so many that i am tired of listing them (if you are a true halo fan you will remember them all).

The series will die the day there is no criticism, look at all the people outside of this forum, all of them joking about "Crieg" and dismissing the awful graphics.

Some of them even saying that completing the game with montly updates is the way to go (just like No man´s sky).

It is because of that kind of gamers today most AAA games are half-cooked junk full of macro-transactions with weak or political plot and absurd battle passes, selled for 60 USD (and maybe 70 in the near future).

I am proud of all the feedback (positive and negative) from this forum alone because it means that we are consumers worried about the product where we want to spend our hard worked money.
How are these fans pure cancer? Can you give some examples? Also what mistakes are you talking about?
I have to agree that the Halo community is very picky. I myself have been highly critical of Halo Infinite but for different reasons. I said in the past that I wasn't worried about gameplay or story, 343 is full of passionate and competent developers who care about their work. What I said is that the potential downfall of the game would be the monetization and so far, some of my worries have been confirmed. My criticisms of Infinite have more to do with F2P multiplayer and a potential battle pass. The actual game looks pretty good to me, I just don't want another franchise to be ruined by monetization.
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