Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

Halo: Infinite - The Final Halo

OP iRadicaI

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. ...
  4. 2
Dear 343i,

The classic art in the Halo: Infinite trailer is a welcomed sight. Master Chief being playable throughout the campaign, also great. Split screen's return, thank you for coming to your senses. However, the real test for the longevity of this game and of the Halo franchise as a whole will be the matchmaking system. If the development team has gotten over their need to give everyone a trophy for participating and returns to the addictively competitive skill based matchmaking and ranking systems of old, people will love it (albiet some will complain, yet even so many will return for more).

The reality is some people are better than others in sports, academia, work, and gaming. The more a game separates from this reality, the less people tend to stick with that game. Nascar is also losing fans at a rapid rate, why? The competitiveness of the sport has been reduced so greatly it is far less fun to participate in. Humanity wants clearly defined winners, they want to see who is genuinely superior; they want to have someone powerful to rise up against and defeat.

Halo 2 & 3 were the most successful games at increasing the player-base and holding onto them for years, not to mention Halo 3 is the highest seller with over 12+ million sales (compared to Halo 5's 5+ million sales). This is due in huge part to their skill based matchmaking, it was a magnet for players to come and compete. Everyone wanted a 50 Rank and would go to great lengths to get one, simply for the pride of doing so. People continued buying this game well after release because they wanted in on the competition and the pride of winning. In Halo 5, what can you take pride in anymore? Your "seasonal" rank is wiped out periodically and you have no long term skill based rank that is prominently displayed, leaving you with nothing to work hard to achieve.

If the corporate powers continue to spinelessly cater to delicate egos, they will continue to see both the core fans and casual dainty folks walk away. The latter because their requests are insatiable, and the former from disappointment. Give us ranked 1-50 skill based matchmaking for the competitive AND social for the casual. Only then will you regenerate the diminishing Halo community. This could very well be 343i and Microsoft's last chance to come to terms with the reality I have shared here and implement the system the core fans have requested for years now.

Don't let us down, again.
- A 30-yr-old 17-yr-fan
Um, how exactly do competitive seasons cater to the casual or act as “participation trophies”? There is a disconnect there.
Chimera30 wrote:
Um, how exactly do competitive seasons cater to the casual or act as “participation trophies”? There is a disconnect there.
As stated - "In Halo 5, what can you take pride in anymore? Your "seasonal" rank is wiped out periodically and you have no long term skill based rank that is prominently displayed, leaving you with nothing to work hard to achieve."

The basic premise stands; Halo 3 drew the largest & longest player-base due to it's matchmaking. Every halo game since has eliminated the 1-50 skill based rank with a watered down version resulting in Halo 5 having the smallest fanbase to date.

Each release, those of us requesting the 1-50 are shot down yet what we're requesting is the secret-sauce that made Halo significantly better than other matchmaking games. Earning a long-term rank that you could forever display was addicting for players and kept them coming back, even to the point of making new accounts to try again and again.

Bring back the secret-sauce 343i!
CSR tends to be more competitive than 1-50. This is coming from someone who partook in competitive Halo for every single game except Reach/4. 1-50 is straightforward and it gives players something to look for, but that is about the extent of its advantages. When it comes to outright competition, CSR lends itself to great competition at the higher levels of play. We even see this in Halo Wars 2, where every season there is a brawl to be at the top. 1-50 doesn't really have that.

Now, I'm not saying I dislike 1-50. I'm just saying there are advantages and disadvantages to both. I think the ranking system comes second to whether or not the gameplay even allows for the better player to come out on top. Would default Reach be more competitive if it had 1-50? Probably not. It was still a nightmare with things like bloom and armor abilities.

We will have to wait and see what they have in store for us in terms of gameplay before I become interested in ranking and matchmaking systems.

EDIT:

If CSR and seasonal resets are to stay, I would like your highest division and placement to be displayed on your in-game service record. Give players who don't want to grind every few months something to brag about and take pride in.
Hey! Other games had 1-50, among other skill systems. And you can veiw your highest season rank on waypoint, so that season rank isnt pointless. In fact, the whole “you get to keep your rank, instead of it reseting on halo 3,” made people leave or boost for rank. And many people are very proud to be sr 152 and onyx at some point

Lol comas for the win
iRadicaI wrote:
As stated - "In Halo 5, what can you take pride in anymore? Your "seasonal" rank is wiped out periodically and you have no long term skill based rank that is prominently displayed, leaving you with nothing to work hard to achieve."

The basic premise stands; Halo 3 drew the largest & longest player-base due to it's matchmaking. Every halo game since has eliminated the 1-50 skill based rank with a watered down version resulting in Halo 5 having the smallest fanbase to date.

Each release, those of us requesting the 1-50 are shot down yet what we're requesting is the secret-sauce that made Halo significantly better than other matchmaking games. Earning a long-term rank that you could forever display was addicting for players and kept them coming back, even to the point of making new accounts to try again and again.

Bring back the secret-sauce 343i!
I get you want the pull of having a permanent rank that doesn't disappear. I get that, for you, temporary ranks are not enough of a draw. What I don't get is how going to a seasonal system is representative of the development team needing to give everyone a trophy for participating. If anything, seasonal rankings are better at showing clearly defined winners because you have to prove yourself each season. So instead of people getting their rank 50 and then retiring to hold onto that status, they have to play each season and if they drop in skill or other people come in and beat them, they don't get the highest ranks. Having a 50 rank that doesn't go away when you stop playing ignores the natural ebb and flow of player skill. If you get to 50 on launch day, who's to say you still deserve to be 50 two years later?

Of all the people making new accounts in Halo 3 to get to 50 again and again, I wonder how many of them did it to not risk comprimising their 50 rating on their original account.

Not to mention that the 1-50 system did not differentiate high 50s from low 50s. All 50s looked the same, when in actuality the population of 50s was quite diverse. The current system more clearly distinguishes the high 50s from the low 50s. In the 1-50 system, Champ 1 and Onyx 1500 would both be labeled as simply "50", despite there being a clear difference in those players' abilities.

So, yeah, I fail to see have competitive seasons cater to "delicate egos", as you said. Nor do I see how it's less competitive than the 1-50 system of Halo 3. If anything, having to prove yourself every season is more competitive than being able to forever rest on your laurels.
CSR tends to be more competitive than 1-50. This is coming from someone who partook in competitive Halo for every single game except Reach/4. 1-50 is straightforward and it gives players something to look for, but that is about the extent of its advantages. When it comes to outright competition, CSR lends itself to great competition at the higher levels of play. We even see this in Halo Wars 2, where every season there is a brawl to be at the top. 1-50 doesn't really have that.

Now, I'm not saying I dislike 1-50. I'm just saying there are advantages and disadvantages to both. I think the ranking system comes second to whether or not the gameplay even allows for the better player to come out on top. Would default Reach be more competitive if it had 1-50? Probably not. It was still a nightmare with things like bloom and armor abilities.

We will have to wait and see what they have in store for us in terms of gameplay before I become interested in ranking and matchmaking systems.

EDIT:

If CSR and seasonal resets are to stay, I would like your highest division and placement to be displayed on your in-game service record. Give players who don't want to grind every few months something to brag about and take pride in.
Keep CSR's mathematical programming, simply give us the visual 1-50 with an insignia showing rank next to our gamertag. This is the badge of honor Halo 3 gave people and the people craved it! 12+ Million sales, there must be something to learn from that game! lol

They could still do seasons, but let our highest rank ever achieved be forever visible next our name in each playlist. It has a profound affect on the human psyche that brings people back repeatedly to either earn a higher rank or display their high rank for others to grovel at. lol
Chimera30 wrote:
iRadicaI wrote:
As stated - "In Halo 5, what can you take pride in anymore? Your "seasonal" rank is wiped out periodically and you have no long term skill based rank that is prominently displayed, leaving you with nothing to work hard to achieve."

The basic premise stands; Halo 3 drew the largest & longest player-base due to it's matchmaking. Every halo game since has eliminated the 1-50 skill based rank with a watered down version resulting in Halo 5 having the smallest fanbase to date.

Each release, those of us requesting the 1-50 are shot down yet what we're requesting is the secret-sauce that made Halo significantly better than other matchmaking games. Earning a long-term rank that you could forever display was addicting for players and kept them coming back, even to the point of making new accounts to try again and again.

Bring back the secret-sauce 343i!
I get you want the pull of having a permanent rank that doesn't disappear. I get that, for you, temporary ranks are not enough of a draw. What I don't get is how going to a seasonal system is representative of the development team needing to give everyone a trophy for participating. If anything, seasonal rankings are better at showing clearly defined winners because you have to prove yourself each season. So instead of people getting their rank 50 and then retiring to hold onto that status, they have to play each season and if they drop in skill or other people come in and beat them, they don't get the highest ranks. Having a 50 rank that doesn't go away when you stop playing ignores the natural ebb and flow of player skill. If you get to 50 on launch day, who's to say you still deserve to be 50 two years later?

Of all the people making new accounts in Halo 3 to get to 50 again and again, I wonder how many of them did it to not risk comprimising their 50 rating on their original account.

Not to mention that the 1-50 system did not differentiate high 50s from low 50s. All 50s looked the same, when in actuality the population of 50s was quite diverse. The current system more clearly distinguishes the high 50s from the low 50s. In the 1-50 system, Champ 1 and Onyx 1500 would both be labeled as simply "50", despite there being a clear difference in those players' abilities.

So, yeah, I fail to see have competitive seasons cater to "delicate egos", as you said. Nor do I see how it's less competitive than the 1-50 system of Halo 3. If anything, having to prove yourself every season is more competitive than being able to forever rest on your laurels.
The problem with the reset of rank (along with no displayed number 1-50) is that people have proven they do not come back. Years after release, Halo 3 was still selling. Halo 5 has one of the smallest sales records among a major Halo release!

Use the insignia's to differentiate the high 50's from low 50's. Use CSR to make sure people are matched fairly. Simply give us a forever visible insignia and numbered rank for our highest earned skill.

The delicate egos I am referring to are those whom do not want to see a forever visible rank and insignia because it strikes sheer terror into their hearts when a high ranked player matches with them lol.

Please understand, I want to see Halo survive and thrive. Halo 3's success must be learned from. The two major changes that hurt the community were the strange gameplay mechanics of Reach and the abolition of the 1-50. There's been improvement since but as you can see the player-base is not addicted to the current matchmaking style.
EDIT:

If CSR and seasonal resets are to stay, I would like your highest division and placement to be displayed on your in-game service record. Give players who don't want to grind every few months something to brag about and take pride in.
YES, this is the edit we deserved.
iRadicaI wrote:
...If the development team has gotten over their need to give everyone a trophy for participating...

...If the corporate powers continue to spinelessly cater to delicate egos...

...Give us ranked 1-50 skill based matchmaking for the competitive...
So you think they cater to delicate people that want a participation trophy, and you want a different participation trophy? That's how I'm reading this.

http://i.imgur.com/qJLnqxa.gif
iRadicaI wrote:
If the development team ... returns to the addictively competitive skill based matchmaking and ranking systems of old, people will love it (albiet some will complain, yet even so many will return for more).

If the corporate powers continue to spinelessly cater to delicate egos, they will continue to see both the core fans and casual dainty folks walk away. The latter because their requests are insatiable, and the former from disappointment. Give us ranked 1-50 skill based matchmaking for the competitive AND social for the casual. Only then will you regenerate the diminishing Halo community.This could very well be 343i and Microsoft's last chance to come to terms with the reality I have shared here and implement the system the core fans have requested for years now.
I'm also reading a whole heaping serving of "I want X so I'm going to claim the bulk of the community want in an effort to to validate my claim" which always rubs me the wrong way. These claims are your opinion and unless you provide some kind of proof or unbiased study, they are speculation. I'm sure lots of people do want 1-50 to return, but that doesn't mean they're the bulk of the community. Or even that they're the "core fans" whatever that may mean.
I'm also reading a whole heaping serving of "I want X so I'm going to claim the bulk of the community want in an effort to to validate my claim" which always rubs me the wrong way. These claims are your opinion and unless you provide some kind of proof or unbiased study, they are speculation. I'm sure lots of people do want 1-50 to return, but that doesn't mean they're the bulk of the community. Or even that they're the "core fans" whatever that may mean.
I read it more like "Halo 3 was the best so Halo Infinite should be like Halo 3".
Chimera30 wrote:
I'm also reading a whole heaping serving of "I want X so I'm going to claim the bulk of the community want in an effort to to validate my claim" which always rubs me the wrong way. These claims are your opinion and unless you provide some kind of proof or unbiased study, they are speculation. I'm sure lots of people do want 1-50 to return, but that doesn't mean they're the bulk of the community. Or even that they're the "core fans" whatever that may mean.
I read it more like "Halo 3 was the best so Halo Infinite should be like Halo 3".
That's fair. I see it as a possible faulty cause and effect situation. Perhaps H3 would have retained even more players if it had H5's ranking? We'll never know. There's no way to determine that people left H5 or any other game for the ranking system not having numbers between 1-50 or avoiding rank resets.

These games are so complex and the changing of the gaming industry landscape make it nearly impossible to point to one thing and say "this is the missing item that will make the bulk of the playerbase come back and retain."
Chimera30 wrote:
I'm also reading a whole heaping serving of "I want X so I'm going to claim the bulk of the community want in an effort to to validate my claim" which always rubs me the wrong way. These claims are your opinion and unless you provide some kind of proof or unbiased study, they are speculation. I'm sure lots of people do want 1-50 to return, but that doesn't mean they're the bulk of the community. Or even that they're the "core fans" whatever that may mean.
I read it more like "Halo 3 was the best so Halo Infinite should be like Halo 3".
That's fair. I see it as a possible faulty cause and effect situation. Perhaps H3 would have retained even more players if it had H5's ranking? We'll never know. There's no way to determine that people left H5 or any other game for the ranking system not having numbers between 1-50 or avoiding rank resets.

These games are so complex and the changing of the gaming industry landscape make it nearly impossible to point to one thing and say "this is the missing item that will make the bulk of the playerbase come back and retain."
The statement "Halo 3 is best Halo" is still, at its core, an opinion. Because there is a subtle but significant difference between "best Halo" and "best-selling Halo". As you say, today's market is very different. Even if Halo Infinite were developed to be as close to Halo 3 as possible without making it a remake, there is no telling if it would match Halo 3's player numbers or even come close. Yet alone what would happen if you just took only one element of Halo 3 (like the ranking system) and brought it back in Halo Infinite.
I feel as if this is really important, that's what kept me playing the other games long past release. The system in Halo 5 frustrated me and was poorly implemented in my opinion, the 1-50 system was also very satisfying and that feeling is what keep us as gamers playing as it gives us something to strive for.
Chimera30 wrote:
Chimera30 wrote:
I'm also reading a whole heaping serving of "I want X so I'm going to claim the bulk of the community want in an effort to to validate my claim" which always rubs me the wrong way. These claims are your opinion and unless you provide some kind of proof or unbiased study, they are speculation. I'm sure lots of people do want 1-50 to return, but that doesn't mean they're the bulk of the community. Or even that they're the "core fans" whatever that may mean.
I read it more like "Halo 3 was the best so Halo Infinite should be like Halo 3".
That's fair. I see it as a possible faulty cause and effect situation. Perhaps H3 would have retained even more players if it had H5's ranking? We'll never know. There's no way to determine that people left H5 or any other game for the ranking system not having numbers between 1-50 or avoiding rank resets.

These games are so complex and the changing of the gaming industry landscape make it nearly impossible to point to one thing and say "this is the missing item that will make the bulk of the playerbase come back and retain."
The statement "Halo 3 is best Halo" is still, at its core, an opinion. Because there is a subtle but significant difference between "best Halo" and "best-selling Halo". As you say, today's market is very different. Even if Halo Infinite were developed to be as close to Halo 3 as possible without making it a remake, there is no telling if it would match Halo 3's player numbers or even come close. Yet alone what would happen if you just took only one element of Halo 3 (like the ranking system) and brought it back in Halo Infinite.
I don't really understand this conversation right now- are we debating or agreeing with each other?

I understand that the OP is stating their opinion, I just find the way their opinion is framed distasteful.
I don't really understand this conversation right now- are we debating or agreeing with each other?

I understand that the OP is stating their opinion, I just find the way their opinion is framed distasteful.
Agreeing. I didn't think it was that convoluted. Whether OP is saying that everyone wants 1-50 to come back or that Halo 3 was best Halo, it's still just an opinion.
In the end of the day a game’s longevity and population is going to be determined by its marketing, stability, enjoyability, replayability, and post-launch support. Debating whether the game should have CSR or 1-50 in terms of attracting players is arbitrary when there’s no way to prove either of them have a substantial effect on population.
They already changed the name of the Reclaimer Trilogy to the Reclaimer Saga.
It is confirmed that Halo would continue for over 20 years.
If Halo was to end, it was with ODST/Reach and you know it.
Also, it would make 0 sense if they just started to recover from Halo 5 and left everything there, leaving too much incomplete and in such a decadent state.
i don't even know.
I agree get rid of seasons, I like permanent ranks more.
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. ...
  4. 2