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Halo Infinite as a Cross Gen game is a big mistake

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eviltedi wrote:
skewer647 wrote:
skewer647 wrote:
skewer647 wrote:
skewer647 wrote:
skewer647 wrote:
skewer647 wrote:
maxammo365 wrote:
So tell people to pony up or trade in the old box one to a X or the new Xbox. Why should games suffer and look worse for the people who don’t want to upgrade? When I upgraded for good reason I want better graphics. Don’t hold me back
Because some people can't afford to upgrade immediately. Particularly, underage gamers who don't have jobs, college students who can't afford to drop $500 on a new console, adults with low wages... There are a lot of people who waits years to buy the next generation console because they can't afford it or need it to be discounted, and others who wait to see which console comes out on top after the "cool off" period.

I don't know that I'm disagreeing, per se, but there is something to be said for cross gen titles that isn't just "people who don't want to upgrade." I will probably upgrade to the next gen Xbox immediately because I'm a dirty little brand loyalist to Xbox at this point, but I don't know, I'm also extremely passive compared to most people when it comes to graphics quality.But some cross gen titles between the 360 and the One were -yoinking- gorgeous, like Dragon Age: Inquisition. 😍
Yeah but on the old days, it wa a upgrade or you don’t get current games. I’m talking ps1 to ps2 or n64 to ps2 or xbox .
I know it used to be like that. But it doesn't have to stay that way. I just think cross gen on launch or near-launch titles is actually a pretty intelligent way to insure sales for developers who can't rely on everyone having the next gen. Being a launch title for a next gen console is risky business, because you're being tasked to sell that console to consumers. I suppose 343 has that sweet, sweet Microsoft money, but that doesn't make their budget Infinite. They still have to have a positive ROI.
It makes investing in current gen consoles pointless because it’s not 100% at the games potential because they have to downgrade it for a similar console on the same family
I don't think it's pointless because it makes the game available to people who can't spend half a grand on a new console just for a launch title they want. I agree that it's not ideal for a game to lose quality, but I would rather people who can't afford to upgrade be able to play the game than shut them out just for a mild increase in graphics.
If people could wait a month or 2 to get a ps2 for the new stuff they can wait for it now. I wouldn’t mind that. I’m not that kind of person that wants to hold back a game that’s just unfair to people who invested in current consoles. It’s ok to tell people no you have to get X console for this game because it looks and runs smoother. Because it would compromise our game
I just don't think that mild graphics or performance dips is what qualifies as "compromising". I respect your position as well as partially agree with you, but overall, my stance is that it is better to do cross-gen then push people out because "2 months" is not the amount of time it takes for someone to afford a console. It needs to be discounted, which doesn't come that soon and for a lot of cases, people need serious discounts, not just $500 to $450.

"They should just stop complaining and go spend hundreds of dollars so I can play top-quality Halo" is just not enough of an argument to win me over.
If people survived the wait back then they can now. Halo was a system seller. Halo infinite needs to be a system seller for the next Xbox. Give me a reason to upgrade. It’s like asking devs for pc games to support windows xp or vista that crap is old and people need to move on. 2013 was 6 years ago. To quote kylo ren “let the past die”
The game will look better on the next gen, and there will be other games. You buy next gen because is it an upgrade with new games. It shouldn't be Halo's job alone to sell the console to you.

And I don't agree with advocating to ignore customers who can't afford to buy a new console right away. You keep saying, "People survived the wait," but why does it have to be that way? The history books aren't some Bible to revere.

They have the tech and resources to allow both gens to enjoy games for a time, which also provides a higher ROI for the developers. They are doing a grace for people who don't upgrade right away. They waited in the past, but now they don't have to thanks to cross-gen publishing. That's a good thing
exactly I just said it would maximize the possible playerbase for the game especially at launch whenever that may be probably late this year or obviously next year so it makes a lot of sense not to mention frank o connor just said yet again its gonna be on xbox one
Do we know if it's going to cross-gen in the same sense as Destiny or GTAV? Because that also can make a difference. Destiny was a simultaneous release, but GTAV was an updated release. I mean, we don't know when next gen Xbox or Halo 6 are releasing, so it makes it difficult to judge how cross-gen will affect it.

Destiny was a simultaneous release, but if you upgraded to next gen Xbox, you only had to pay $5 to upgrade your Destiny to the next gen as well. Where Rockstar re-release GTAV years down the line with massive graphics updates, but you had to rebuy it for half the price of the original game.
Bold. I cannot see that at all. Microsoft have gone big on BC and having their games play anywhere. Why would they start to limit accessibility ? It would be determintal to all the good work they've done since the Xbox One launched. Microsoft might also be done with "traditional generations" of consoles where nothing works when you buy a new machine.

I believe Phil Spencer stated that no one will get left behind at a recent E3. It's my opinion that what works on Xbox One will work on "Scarlet / Anaconda". I also think there is a possibility all first party games on the new consoles will work on the current family of Xbox One machines. I believe Halo Infinite will be the first title to do so by releasing on the new and current consoles.

I have linked an interview below about Scorpio, I'm of the opinion the same will apply to "Anaconda / Scarlet" because Aaron Greenberg states, "for us, I think the future is without console generations".
The end of console generations.
But how...? Is it connected to the Xbox Play Anywhere feature?
X-Cloud ? Microsoft are trying to get their games on everything. I think it will help older consoles like Day One and S remain relevant to the user and help reduce the technical load on said console or device. I still believe an upgrade will be needed at some point. However, the one thing I despise when buying a new Xbox is that nothing else works. If the new machines Scarlet / Anaconda are more powerful Xbox One versions of Scorpio, and all our games, controllers and HDD's are compatible, I believe that would an industry first, and a strong selling point. I think Halo Infinite will be a launch title for the current and new machines. I could be wrong, it would not be the first time lol.
It'd hardly be a mistake given what microsoft has been doing. If one cares about the next consoles sales sure, but Microsoft has been pushing big on accessibility more than anything lately and that's a direction I'll follow more of trying to push tech further when we're already past the standards. This pales to the XB1s original plans to be online always as one wasn't consumer friendly where as being crossplat is🤷

I can say it's pretty -Yoinking!- asanine to force people to buy the next thing when the X itself isn't even that old yet. I can also say I wouldn't buy into it untill years down the road nor would I do it for just one game, we're well past the point where games were system sellers, this isn't the ps2/XB/360/ps3 era anymore.

I'll take the bigger player pools and playing with my friends over more slight upgrades to a console. Games being held back would be true to an extent but not to such a degree that it's harmful.

Console sales shouldn't and they really don't mean much to the buyer, I've never once cared how well the Xbox sells as why should I? So why should I here? Even more so when Microsoft has let that go years ago.
Having an xbox is enough of a reward in its self nobody should be left out of loop not the x owners and not the less fortunate who have the 1.just because Microsoft gives us a new variant of the xbox every 6,7,8 months or a year doesn't mean we have to go broke .when the released the x people were skeptical about the new games but Microsoft assured them by saying that does games also play on your existing xbox with better graphics but without the 4k etc. So maybe Microsoft needs to slow down so we can all catch up and experience the best games ever.
eviltedi wrote:
Xbox One, Xbox One S, Xbox One X, Xbox 4, and Xbox 4X makes 5 iterations that would have forced parity to the lowest limits of the Xbox One & Xbox One S.
The next issue is this model would completely wipe out most hype or necessity to upgrade to the next Xbox since it seems like MS isn't going to shuffle it's exclusives exclusively on to next gen. A move like this would assuredly hand Sony the win for next gen faster that the Xbox One always online DRM E3 debacle. If they really think cross gen exclusives are the right move now they might as well shutter the Xbox brand and turn completely into a publisher for their games on PS5, Switch and PC.
I think it's a good idea. Players of Halo Infinite that don't have 4K tv's won't be forced to upgrade. There will be more choice too, I will buy the next console day one, and I'll go for the best machine, I bought an X because I have 4K, each of my children play on an S as they are on 1080p displays. I think it's better to have the choice to upgrade hardware over being forced.
As an X owner as well I've already seen the beginning of the draw backs when playing with others who are using the older, weaker models. I get delayed getting into online games when other players consoles are slower at loading. Pubg had a issue in which X consoles had grass load in while S & original Xbox One wouldn't get the grass so that X players would out in the open on S & original Xbox One player to pick off with ease. Similarly if you want to play backwards compatible online games the hold outs on 360 seem to be lobbies full of hackers and even though this gen hasn't been cracked you can't avoid them which doesn't bode well if the Xbox One does eventually get hacked and next gen is still handcuffed to this one.
Yes there are hackers on reach and I’m playing on the Xbox one s it sometimes gets annoying
I understand the concern with all the different versions of Xbox Ones out there. It feels like the 360 lasted a heck of a lot longer than the Xbox One generation has and now I've got to buy a brand new Xbox! I just bought the Xbox One X a year ago! So its completely understandable but for Halo I will be forced to buy the next console if it is required to play the game.
eviltedi wrote:
Xbox One, Xbox One S, Xbox One X, Xbox 4, and Xbox 4X makes 5 iterations that would have forced parity to the lowest limits of the Xbox One & Xbox One S.
The next issue is this model would completely wipe out most hype or necessity to upgrade to the next Xbox since it seems like MS isn't going to shuffle it's exclusives exclusively on to next gen. A move like this would assuredly hand Sony the win for next gen faster that the Xbox One always online DRM E3 debacle. If they really think cross gen exclusives are the right move now they might as well shutter the Xbox brand and turn completely into a publisher for their games on PS5, Switch and PC.
I think it's a good idea. Players of Halo Infinite that don't have 4K tv's won't be forced to upgrade. There will be more choice too, I will buy the next console day one, and I'll go for the best machine, I bought an X because I have 4K, each of my children play on an S as they are on 1080p displays. I think it's better to have the choice to upgrade hardware over being forced.
Won't it hold back the game though? I heard it also takes separate teams to make games cross gen games and certain design decisions would have to be made to compensate for the considerably weak CPU of the Xbox one which are considered weaker than even low end CPUs. It could seriously hinder what the next gen consoles are truly capable of which could hold back Infinite from adding new or improved features like more advanced AI or physics and even level designs.

I mean it's great that people won't be forced to upgrade, but current gen consoles have been out for a good 7 years and next gen players would have to play a game that doesn't fully take advantage of the hardware they're paying for. It would prevent people from experience a truly next gen experience and that just doesn't seem exciting to me.
I get the bit about the XB1 holding the game back but to be fair that's how new generations always happen. The first couple years of games always feel like last gen games just a bit upgraded, at least that's how I feel.

The "beating" Sony narrative I just don't get. For starters, MS releases all their games on PC as well meaning there's a MASSIVE group of gamers that don't have to go out and buy yet another system just to play a few games, they can comfortably enjoy said games on the PC they own so already just because of that I don't think you should expect the XBSX to sell more than PS5. If MS's goal really was solely to sell more console units than Sony, they would keep all their games on Xbox. Besides that, why do you even care? I don't understand why so many people care about which system sells more. If you're only able or wanting to buy one system and that's it, just buy the one you want and enjoy it. I don't get this need of having your console have the most sales.
eviltedi wrote:
Xbox One, Xbox One S, Xbox One X, Xbox 4, and Xbox 4X makes 5 iterations that would have forced parity to the lowest limits of the Xbox One & Xbox One S.
The next issue is this model would completely wipe out most hype or necessity to upgrade to the next Xbox since it seems like MS isn't going to shuffle it's exclusives exclusively on to next gen. A move like this would assuredly hand Sony the win for next gen faster that the Xbox One always online DRM E3 debacle. If they really think cross gen exclusives are the right move now they might as well shutter the Xbox brand and turn completely into a publisher for their games on PS5, Switch and PC.
I think it's a good idea. Players of Halo Infinite that don't have 4K tv's won't be forced to upgrade. There will be more choice too, I will buy the next console day one, and I'll go for the best machine, I bought an X because I have 4K, each of my children play on an S as they are on 1080p displays. I think it's better to have the choice to upgrade hardware over being forced.
Won't it hold back the game though?
Possibly, but we'll have to see. PUBG is terrible on day one consoles (or it used to be). I'm hoping it won't but time will tell, maybe X-Cloud will help but that will possibly mean no offline. Too many ifs and buts until we get all the details, I can't lie though I'm happy all my current titles will work on Series X.
I really don't see this as an issue. This is already how game development works for PC. You have to consider the lowest common denominator to have the highest install base. Like PC games It's a pretty good assumption that both versions could have large graphical differences. So if having the best graphical fidelity is important to you the series x would be the best way to play. I view this as a very consumer friendly move and considering MS strategy is to get more people playing in their ecosystem it makes sense. There's a good chance that the early adopter selling points are going to be more feature related.
A move like this would assuredly hand Sony the win for next gen faster that the Xbox One always online DRM E3 debacle. If they really think cross gen exclusives are the right move now they might as well shutter the Xbox brand and turn completely into a publisher for their games on PS5, Switch and PC.

Ah, another one who still thinks console wars are a big deal and actually matter. Nobody needs to win or lose, just be a success. If we think about it that way, Xbox One lost this console generation and yet we're not complaining or talking much about it. Why? Because we love the console and imaginary industry wars don't matter. Is cross-gen a big mistake? No, not at all. The game engine already looks fantastic and I have no doubt it'll run smoothly and still look fantastic between console generations; I don't see the need to worry too much. Cross-gen is going to be a thing whether you like it or not. PC players have had the same experience for years. This is nothing new in the gaming world and I foresee it being normal in the console industry in the future.
I'm very mixed on this. People say console wars don't matter, as long as x company is successful. I agree on this to point, but I think console wars drive competition which leads to better products. I think the bigger deal is exclusives games which ties into console wars. Xbox now has zero exclusives as they will all be on PC. Yet, PC exclusives aren't on Xbox. What's up with that??? Xbox only players are getting screwed in my opinion!! So PC players get to play games like Halo, Gears, etc. But why don't Xbox players get to play games like AOE??? Why buy an Xbox when you can play them all on PC? Well, the only reasons I can think of is cost, as it SHOULD be cheaper and convenience. I understand both of those, but still. This will absolutely lower Xbox console sales. I have multiple friends who have already said they're not buying the next Xbox because they see no point as they will just get it for PC and update their PC if they have to. I'll admit, for the first time ever in my life I'm also considering that. Ultimately if they're software sells more and makes them more money they don't care but that has to happen first.

Call me old school, but I think exclusives do matter and Sony will still have them. Back more on topic, I'm also not a super huge fan of cross generation as it holds games back. Anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves. Halo infinite will absolutely be held back because It's going to be on Xbox one. I also feel this can causes problems in development as well pretty easily. Ultimately again, Microsoft doesn't care as long as they make more money, which I understand that but the game has to be good for it to sell remember. Just like this generation where many people waited to buy the new system until the games they wanted were only on it, it will happen again here.

If Sony new console games look incredible, are not cross gen and are exclusively on Sony, that will absolutely hurt sales of Xbox both in hardware and software and they might not be successful, which is bad and not good for competition, which is what we want.

For me, I see zero point in upgrading unless there's a significant reason too. If it's just prettier graphics then I don't really care. The bigger thing for me like I said is I'm considering not even buying Xbox next generation as I can just put that money into my PC and have even more exclusives that won't go to Xbox. My biggest thing in the past was I didn't like using M/KB As I prefer to controller but now I don't have to worry about that issue. I think a lot of people are thinking the same thing as me in questioning why I'm going to buy the next Xbox system.

I understand what Microsoft is trying to do but I definitely don't agree with all their decisions and personally I think some of those decisions will hurt them financially, but we'll see. Will they still be considered successful because of it? Probably... But who knows... A lot of things have to go right there remember. It's all about how much MORE successful you can be aka how much more money you can make and if Sony or Nintendo or both are making way more money then Microsoft, well... Then I guess we'll know why 🙃

Edit: I just saw this article (Link) and thought, that's funny, was just talking about this lol I must say, I agree with Sony decision here. I wish Xbox was doing this.
I can’t afford a new console, or a new TV to make that console worth getting. People who are in financial situations similar to mine should not be excluded from playing the new game just because some other people want it to run a little faster or look a little nicer.
I can’t afford a new console, or a new TV to make that console worth getting. People who are in financial situations similar to mine should not be excluded from playing the new game just because some other people want it to run a little faster or look a little nicer.
Unfortunately technology moves on at exponential rate. I used to be the same, I struggled to fund new tech. That's changed, I have a great job and a lot of disposable income. In fact, my Series X money has been stashed in a drawer since it was announced. I can empathise but why should players who can afford the new consoles suffer because some cannot ?

However, you will be able to play the new Halo on your current Xbox One. But I believe someone is going to suffer. The Series X might be restricted because of day one consoles, or day one console versions of Halo Infinite will be limited because of the lack of power, load times etc. I hope 343i have this ironed out. I'm happy I can play all my current Xbox titles on Series X.

My opinion has changed quite a lot, it could similar to Titanfall being ported to Xbox 360 where they have a ported version of Halo Infinite for Day One and S consoles. Like I always say, we need more info, we have so many questions but nothing solid from 343i or Microsoft. We do know we'll all get to play Halo Infinite regardless of Hardware. What baggage comes with each version is not known.

Perhaps everything will be fine with this cross gen release, were it so easy.
I know they’ve said all Xbox One/Series systems will be playing Halo Infinite, but I wonder if they’ll be playing it on the same servers.
I can’t afford a new console, or a new TV to make that console worth getting. People who are in financial situations similar to mine should not be excluded from playing the new game just because some other people want it to run a little faster or look a little nicer.
I'm sorry but no, just no. Just because you can't afford it doesn't mean things should be held back? And the people that can afford it, is it fair to them that they get a watered-down version? Absolutely not! Does it suck? Hell yeah! but that's how it is. I couldn't afford HD TV for years!!!! I was the last one out of my friends to have it. Should TV shows and movies be helded back just because of me?? Absolutely not. Why should developers hold back there creative thinking and such? It's like saying, half the people who own iPhones right now can't afford the newest one, so apple shouldn't release new software and features for them to make it better or Microsoft staying they're not going to utilize windows 10 and keep everything on Windows XP. Eventually people have to upgrade if they want to do XYZ. That's how it is in everything!! You want HD TV, You have to buy an HDTV. You want 4K picture, Then you have to buy 4K equipment and so on. Oh and if you think new system just means a prettier looking game, you couldn't be more wrong there.

I do feel for you, I really do and I get it and anyone else who can't either but that's life man. When I was younger, I wasn't able to buy the newest system when it came out. I had to wait a few years to get it. As I got a bit older, early teens, I literally saved money and put it aside for one when I knew it was coming. I bought nothing else.

If there's a will, there's a way 👍

For the most part cross generation games are always sub-par when it comes to online. Cross-gen doesn't matter so much for single-player games but multiplayer it sure does. Series x is WAY more powerful them Xbox one so it's reasonable to assume massive features will be cut from the Xbox one version and/or graphics will have to be seriously downgraded and what not. Not to mention the issues it causes in development.

I'm pretty interested in what they're going to do here but overall I'm betting I won't be happy with what they're going to say. I want Halo infinite to blow everything away!!! It can't do that if it has to be put on outdated hardware. Sony has the right idea in making games that only play on PS5. I know Microsoft will do that eventually, but you want your launch games to blow people's minds!! Not be like "Well it looks good but that's all that's different really. I can just get it on my current system so I won't bother" that's terrible!!!

I'm definitely concerned about cross-gen.

Xelyx wrote:
I know they’ve said all Xbox One/Series systems will be playing Halo Infinite, but I wonder if they’ll be playing it on the same servers.
This is a other really good question! If everyone is on the same servers then things will definitely be downgraded online for anyone on the Xbox series x as they'll need to make everything even across the board.
Personally I think MS makes more profit off games and Xbox Live than hardware.
I am not happy that the game will be cross gen. I want infinite to be a series x exclusive. The Xbox one family will hold back the series x.

Back when it was still project Scarlett, Phil Spencer was interviewed by Engadget. When asking for clarification of the E3 reveal of project Scarlett's "4 times more powerful" statement, Phil said that is only referring to the cpu of project Scarlett.

This is a massive lift in power. Now for those saying PC has done this for years, it's not the same. Games launching on consoles and PC have the exact same gameplay. The framerate can be altered on PC but the actual gameplay is the same. This means AI, any physics that alters gameplay (not talking about hair physics but like destruction in battlefield for example), and any other gameplay mechanics that is what the cpu runs were designed on the weakest console. The CPU is what plays the game. PC just gets a polished visual upgrade over console. Gameplay is the same, the extra room for powerful PC's are just put to pushing frame rate. This is why the Xbox one family will hold back the series x.

Now, there are many ways 343 can approach this. One way is by building primarily for Xbox one x. Pushing the game to it's limits on Xbox one x will make it possible to downgrade the game to the One s without it being terrible. It will also be ported to series x with a graphical update only.
Another way to do it is build it primarily for series x and downscale from there. The problem with this is the limits of the Xbox one families CPU. New physics and AI and other gameplay mechanics may be too much for the Xbox one family so we could possibly see a 1080p 30fps Xbox one x version just to free up some CPU power so it can handle the next gen upgrade but that means the one s version will be really bad. The Xbox one family might also be missing extra features like warzone or a true firefight.

Lastly I don't think there will be cross gen servers. The multiplayer will be identical between both generations but I don't believe there will be cross gen play due to the much higher graphical fidelity of the series x
Apparently this bares repeating, but the Xbox One S is not going to be "holding back" Infinite any more than than low end PC "hold back" high end ones. Infinite is already confirmed for PC which means the game is already being built to scale across a wide range of hardware settings.

I honestly don't know what people think is going to be "held back" by having a cross gen release. The new consoles are still going to be behind what PC gaming can offer so its not like they are going to be breaking any new ground in terms of technology. The push for 4K alongside stable framerates on console is likely to be a far larger bottleneck in terms of what they can accomplish than the having support for the One S.
Won't there be two different versions of the game? BLOPS III if I recall correctly didn't even have the campaign or something on the 360 version. Battlefield 4 couldn't support 32v32 on 360 but it could on the One. Obviously there's no crossplay between the two versions because they're not compatible together. If this is the case for Infinite, there's no problem. Xbox One players still get the game if they choose not to upgrade, just a drastically worse version. Therefore, there is a reason to upgrade to Series X (or buy a PC) but it's not entirely necessary, which is the most consumer friendly way to go. Regardless of which platform the game is bought on, MS still profits, win-win. It shouldn't even drastically impact development time because 343 develops the Series X version and then just trims it down for the One version.
I think we need to learn more about the xbox series long term plan is before we can make a judgement if it would be worth porting it to both of xbox 1 and xbox series.

I imagine Halo infinite will be the tech demo that will show exactly what can be achieved with the xbox series as in Xbox one-Inferior edition and xbox series-high fidelity version in some sense.

also i don't think Microsoft is looking at this with "system seller" sense its more of a Look at this entire ecosystem of Xbox this will be just another reason to buy into the windows/xbox gaming system.
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