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Halo Infinite beats Borderlands 3 in Anticipation

OP xAXIOS

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THATS HUGE! I’ve never really been a Borderlands fan, but I know it’s a respectable franchise and is highly anticipated. But I never thought the hunger for Halo bas grown so much! If 343 really plays this right, Halo can take back the crown it seems epcically with a PC, and Scarlett release. Thoughts Halo community!?
I dont think a poll with 15k participants is that huge when compared to that the copies sold is calculated in millions when talking about bigger franchises/brands.

And given Halo is one of the most known & longrunning FPS series, I wouldn't be surprised that it's on or near the top, nothing new there. It just takes more for clear indication that Halo could be raising where it was before.
Obviously I hope for a great game but I just dont see this as anywhere near clear indication that Halo could be on the rise, though doesn't take that much to beat recent titles in Halo scale.
xAXIOS wrote:
xAXIOS wrote:
THATS HUGE! I’ve never really been a Borderlands fan, but I know it’s a respectable franchise and is highly anticipated. But I never thought the hunger for Halo bas grown so much! If 343 really plays this right, Halo can take back the crown it seems epcically with a PC, and Scarlett release. Thoughts Halo community!?
THATS HUGE! I’ve never really been a Borderlands fan, but I know it’s a respectable franchise and is highly anticipated. But I never thought the hunger for Halo bas grown so much! If 343 really plays this right, Halo can take back the crown it seems epcically with a PC, and Scarlett release. Thoughts Halo community!?
0.7 % of 15.000 is not that much considering Halo has sold something like twice what Borderlands has as a franchise. I agree with MIKA95VARTSU too. I'm not surprised Halo is top considering it's longer history and bigger success. I have never played a Borderlands game and never will. That art style and cel shaded look is terrible imo. It's good to see Halo top though, even by a meagre 0.7%.
That's quite impressive and feels good as a Halo fan but I bet part of the reason is because of Randy Pitchford and the Epic Store deal. Still, there's so much hype building around Infinite I'm becoming more scared to see what the actual gameplay is like lol
While it is a good result for Halo, what I found very surprising was how more of the poll participants were excited for Borderlands 3 over Doom Eternal. I would have thought that people would be more excited for the latter given how good it looks, and the fact that the former is doing a deal with the Epic Games Store.
I hate to play this part, I feel like I'm often the downer, but the post also neglects to say how many respondents there were. Just because the poll was sent to, or viewed by ~15,000 people, doesn't mean that many people actually contributed.

REGARDLESS, I'm wicked excited for the game. All of those games look great. I hope the Halo hype climbs further as we approach the release.
I dont think a poll with 15k participants is that huge when compared to that the copies sold is calculated in millions when talking about bigger franchises/brands.
Actually, given a sufficiently random sample, 15,000 participants is more than enough in this situation. Since the error goes as the inverse square root of the sample size, the error here is about 0.8%, which for a proportion of 29% is very reasonable. Granted, since Halo Infinite and Borderlands are within the margin of error, the conclusion "Halo Infinite beats Borderlands 3 in anticipation" isn't very strong.

In any case, I'm just saying that if you're going to criticize a poll, at least have the necessary understanding of statistics to ensure that your criticism is valid. Now, questioning the randomness of the sample—i.e., whether it has any bias in favor of Halo fans—would at least be a valid criticism, but since it's IGN which doesn't have any obvious bias to specific games, that criticism isn't very strong either.
tsassi wrote:
I dont think a poll with 15k participants is that huge when compared to that the copies sold is calculated in millions when talking about bigger franchises/brands.
Actually, given a sufficiently random sample, 15,000 participants is more than enough in this situation. Since the error goes as the inverse square root of the sample size, the error here is about 0.8%, which for a proportion of 29% is very reasonable. Granted, since Halo Infinite and Borderlands are within the margin of error, the conclusion "Halo Infinite beats Borderlands 3 in anticipation" isn't very strong.

In any case, I'm just saying that if you're going to criticize a poll, at least have the necessary understanding of statistics to ensure that your criticism is valid. Now, questioning the randomness of the sample—i.e., whether it has any bias in favor of Halo fans—would at least be a valid criticism, but since it's IGN which doesn't have any obvious bias to specific games, that criticism isn't very strong either.
The thing is that I have seen multiple polls that are just fraction of the voter base of this one when compared to the overall consumer base of the product itself & end up completely wrong, also, I dont get what "IGN which doesn't have any obvious bias to specific games" would you be referrring about with that part given this particular poll seems to be about the reader base of the IGN which consists likely of various people which I wont comment further to avoid straying from civilized discussion for this is public message & anyone can twist original meaning.
And I wont be setting examples of polls being entirely wrong to avoid politics in discussions, take that as you will. Anyhow political discussions are buried in this site. So it's yet another thing to avoid.
So I dont still really trust polls made in such numbers that are little fraction of the entire playerbase of even the less selling installments of the franchise. Even in the case that they are made by well known "gaming journalist" sites which have more or less established reader base.
So even in these more known sites, perhaps even more so than new ones, certain kind of mindset towards certain games are set for it's impossible (though near impossible if you believe in universe of endless possibilities) to remain absolutely neutral towards any form of media that games are a part of.
Good of you to bring mathematical side to the discussion but I doubt the base of that calculus which leans to the assumption that the poll would have equal parts of the different views in the whole consumer base.
But what do you think of the psychological side that certain mindsets are drawn to certain types form of media that could have an effect on the ending result of a poll on certain site?

And before stating something like "I'm just saying that if you're going to criticize a poll, at least have the necessary understanding of statistics to ensure that your criticism is valid." then could you at least try to see some form of response to avoid anything too personal in form of seemingly trying to dimish the point by simple fact of using different form of calculis in making of a first impressions concerning the topics & the view of validity of polls?

And im not saying that the result of the poll is absolutely 100% wrong, im just doubting that it's accurately so in the minds of "gamers" in this particular moment in the scale that it's represented in the poll at hand.
Mathematically though, I would definitely expect Halo to be more anticipated by numbers, doubting point being the % of overall fanbase.
So the overall factor of "anticipation" has multiple viewpoints which all could have differing results, which is, from psychological viewpoint, somewhat fascinating.
The thing is that I have seen multiple polls that are just fraction of the voter base of this one when compared to the overall consumer base of the product itself & end up completely wrong, also, I dont get what "IGN which doesn't have any obvious bias to specific games" would you be referrring about with that part given this particular poll seems to be about the reader base of the IGN which consists likely of various people which I wont comment further to avoid straying from civilized discussion for this is public message & anyone can twist original meaning.
And I wont be setting examples of polls being entirely wrong to avoid politics in discussions, take that as you will. Anyhow political discussions are buried in this site. So it's yet another thing to avoid.
So I dont still really trust polls made in such numbers that are little fraction of the entire playerbase of even the less selling installments of the franchise. Even in the case that they are made by well known "gaming journalist" sites which have more or less established reader base.
So even in these more known sites, perhaps even more so than new ones, certain kind of mindset towards certain games are set for it's impossible (though near impossible if you believe in universe of endless possibilities) to remain absolutely neutral towards any form of media that games are a part of.
Good of you to bring mathematical side to the discussion but I doubt the base of that calculus which leans to the assumption that the poll would have equal parts of the different views in the whole consumer base.
But what do you think of the psychological side that certain mindsets are drawn to certain types form of media that could have an effect on the ending result of a poll on certain site?
All I'm saying is that our original criticism "I dont think a poll with 15k participants is that huge when compared to that the copies sold is calculated in millions" is misguided. A sample size of 15,000 is more than enough to get results that generalize to the whole population, provided the sample is unbiased, and the total size of the population really isn't relevant. The correct criticism to make would've been "I don't think IGN readers are representative of gamers in general" (i.e., that the sample might be biased), if you had such suspicions.

In short, I'm not saying that you should trust the poll, or polls in general. You shouldn't blindly trust them. It's just that the reason you gave for not trusting it (the sample size compared to the total population) is misguided. If you want to doubt whether people who would respond to an IGN poll are representative of gamers as a whole, then by all means. But don't question the sample size unless you understand how sample sizes work and relate to the results at hand.

And before stating something like "I'm just saying that if you're going to criticize a poll, at least have the necessary understanding of statistics to ensure that your criticism is valid." then could you at least try to see some form of response to avoid anything too personal in form of seemingly trying to dimish the point by simple fact of using different form of calculis in making of a first impressions concerning the topics & the view of validity of polls?
The truth is, I find the poor understanding of statistics people use to criticize polls extremely frustrating. Too often just in the Halo community alone do I see people try to dismiss polls with "10,000 pLayERs DoN't rEPreSenT a COmMuniTy Of mILLiOnS". Now the poll might actually be bad. It might be biased, picked only from a certain subgroup of the community. But the reasoning used here to dismiss it is invalid, and that grinds my gears. I'm all for skepticism, I think it's great, but only if it's educated, relevant, and not born out of ignorance.
It's all about perspective. The Halo Nation isn't as big as it once was. Especially where I'm from. I'll always be a Halo fan no matter what but I hear more people talk about Boarderlands online unfortunately.
That's quite impressive and feels good as a Halo fan but I bet part of the reason is because of Randy Pitchford and the Epic Store deal. Still, there's so much hype building around Infinite I'm becoming more scared to see what the actual gameplay is like lol
Yeah, I think a combination of bad press for Borderlands with the Epic Game Store exclusive deal turning off PC customers who might otherwise have bought it day 1 on Steam, and the increased potential customer base for Halo by bringing it to Steam, is going to have a non trivial affect on the hype for both games. One game is decreasing their potential audience size, the other is expanding it. So I don’t think it’s that shocking if there’s more hype for Halo than Borderlands right now.
Encouraging! Can't say I'm surprised, personally. Halo Infinite is angling at appealing to the prime of the franchise, while Borderlands 3 is trying to be a regular numbered iteration in that series. Plus, Halo at its peak of popularity and acclaim (Let's say Halo 3) obliterates Borderlands' prime around the time Borderlands 2 came out in terms of overall player base and hype. I'm saying this as someone who really appreciates both franchises; Halo is just a much bigger deal in terms of historic brand power. Granted, I think it's fair to say that those higher highs have come with lower lows than Borderlands as a series has hit (Pitchford seems to be driving hard to rectify that right about now, though!).

I think that it's a case of the majority of players familiar with both series believing that Halo has been better at its best than Borderlands has been at its own.
Well Randy Pitchford right now is doing everything to ruin the brands tied to his name. So I can see some skeptics looking at Borderlands 3 the same way I looked at Halo 5 and just said to themselves "forget about it". I mean I was never a fan of the Borderlands and other looter type games but now hearing the lootbo..uh I mean surprise mechanics (thanks EA), the Epic Store Exclusivity, as well as other modern design choices and I am just even less interested. I might go back and play the original ones if there still is a way to acquire the DLC just to give it a try. The modern game industry made me move to retro gaming and I have been sticking to the consoles of yesteryear.
343 with MCC and Infinite are making a comeback.

Classic Halo is the King, and they are doing what they can to make us happy and make a great game. The MCC is fixed, it's coming to PC (with progression and things like that, and Reach) , Infinite has a great chief design with inspiration from the classics, the shield sound that everyone loves is back, what isn't to be happy about?

Borderlands 3, it's a different story.

I say all the time that by the end of next year, everyone's going to love Randy. But he's messed up a bit with BL3 pre-launch, with numerous scandals like the flash drive, And Take-Two + Gearbox doing the epic exclusivity deal is a major no-no that vastly dampens any hype for this game. Nobody wants to reward that.

the sentiment that I heard about BL3 on PC is "I'm buying it, but I'm buying it next year".

Regardless of that, Halo and Borderlands are completely different. In my opinion, Halo is the best shooter franchise that will ever grace this earth. Borderlands is the same thing for shooting games with loot and gear.
tsassi wrote:
The thing is that I have seen multiple polls that are just fraction of the voter base of this one when compared to the overall consumer base of the product itself & end up completely wrong, also, I dont get what "IGN which doesn't have any obvious bias to specific games" would you be referrring about with that part given this particular poll seems to be about the reader base of the IGN which consists likely of various people which I wont comment further to avoid straying from civilized discussion for this is public message & anyone can twist original meaning.
And I wont be setting examples of polls being entirely wrong to avoid politics in discussions, take that as you will. Anyhow political discussions are buried in this site. So it's yet another thing to avoid.
So I dont still really trust polls made in such numbers that are little fraction of the entire playerbase of even the less selling installments of the franchise. Even in the case that they are made by well known "gaming journalist" sites which have more or less established reader base.
So even in these more known sites, perhaps even more so than new ones, certain kind of mindset towards certain games are set for it's impossible (though near impossible if you believe in universe of endless possibilities) to remain absolutely neutral towards any form of media that games are a part of.
Good of you to bring mathematical side to the discussion but I doubt the base of that calculus which leans to the assumption that the poll would have equal parts of the different views in the whole consumer base.
But what do you think of the psychological side that certain mindsets are drawn to certain types form of media that could have an effect on the ending result of a poll on certain site?
All I'm saying is that our original criticism "I dont think a poll with 15k participants is that huge when compared to that the copies sold is calculated in millions" is misguided. A sample size of 15,000 is more than enough to get results that generalize to the whole population, provided the sample is unbiased, and the total size of the population really isn't relevant. The correct criticism to make would've been "I don't think IGN readers are representative of gamers in general" (i.e., that the sample might be biased), if you had such suspicions.

In short, I'm not saying that you should trust the poll, or polls in general. You shouldn't blindly trust them. It's just that the reason you gave for not trusting it (the sample size compared to the total population) is misguided. If you want to doubt whether people who would respond to an IGN poll are representative of gamers as a whole, then by all means. But don't question the sample size unless you understand how sample sizes work and relate to the results at hand.

Which I can admit that the original post lacked part of the explanation as to why I doubt this particular poll. There can be polls of similar size that are somewhat accurate with a marging of error. As to what is acceptable marging of error is up to the viewer.
And im not sure if you are stating the same thing as I did in the reply on highlighted parts while making it seem like it's the first time it's mentioned.
And nothing to cling on but just as a side note, that phrasing before it seems to imply that there could be only 1 type of "correct criticism" as some form of pre-educated answer to a test.
And as for the reason in the original post, sure there can be more trustworthy polls, like mentioned, but I have high doubts when the poll has scales like in this case when likely the voting pool is likely not equal part of fans from different communities when turned into the scale of the poll.
So the doubt about the scale of the poll depends on whether it's likely that the voter base is scaled with the numbers at hand. Meaning in this case, I would require to see likely more polls from various sites that have similar results.
And again with the personal dimishing, I can understand frustration but dont let it control you.
tsassi wrote:
And before stating something like "I'm just saying that if you're going to criticize a poll, at least have the necessary understanding of statistics to ensure that your criticism is valid." then could you at least try to see some form of response to avoid anything too personal in form of seemingly trying to dimish the point by simple fact of using different form of calculis in making of a first impressions concerning the topics & the view of validity of polls?
The truth is, I find the poor understanding of statistics people use to criticize polls extremely frustrating. Too often just in the Halo community alone do I see people try to dismiss polls with "10,000 pLayERs DoN't rEPreSenT a COmMuniTy Of mILLiOnS". Now the poll might actually be bad. It might be biased, picked only from a certain subgroup of the community. But the reasoning used here to dismiss it is invalid, and that grinds my gears. I'm all for skepticism, I think it's great, but only if it's educated, relevant, and not born out of ignorance.
And what I could further correct from myself that the scale should be higher when thinking of the material where the poll is compared to, the other communities from the other games/franchises that are included in the poll should also be counted to that number with the addition of possible newcomers, double accounts, & plain people that just could try to mess with the result, as a margin.
And yet again with emotional ending texts that dont really seem to serve any purpose other than perhaps in an attemp to push down the counterpart with claims of other party being ignorant & lacks education.
Which I can admit that the original post lacked part of the explanation as to why I doubt this particular poll. There can be polls of similar size that are somewhat accurate with a marging of error. As to what is acceptable marging of error is up to the viewer.
Kind of, but not really. What kind of error we have tells us what we can reasonably infer from the results. For example, with the sample of 15,000 we had the 95% confidence interval error at 0.8%. Since there was a 0.7% difference between Halo Infinite and Borderlands 3, we can't definitively say that Halo Infinite is more anticipated than Borderlands 3. On the other hand, it gets exceedingly unlikely (literally one in a billion chance) that any of the numbers would be off by more than 5%. Therefore we can with great confidence say that Halo Infinite and Borderlands 3 are more anticipated than, say, Doom Eternal.

Again, this is all assuming, hypothetically, that the poll has no bias.

So, sure, how confident you want to be before you accept something as "probably true" is up to you. But if you're going to be very skeptical, you should ask yourself whteher you're also afraid of getting struck by a lightning after winning the lottery.

And nothing to cling on but just as a side note, that phrasing before it seems to imply that there could be only 1 type of "correct criticism" as some form of pre-educated answer to a test.
But with a poll, there really isn't. Either you question the sample size with respect to the question being studied, or you question how well the sample represents the population being studied. But since the sample size in this case is very reasonable given the results, there is only one type of legitimate criticism you can make here.

when likely the voting pool is likely not equal part of fans from different communities
What do you mean? Obviously, it's not going to be equal parts of fans of different games when the games in question represent vastly different levels of popularity. But that's just generally true at the population level, not a bias in the IGN reader base.

And yet again with emotional ending texts that dont really seem to serve any purpose other than perhaps in an attemp to push down the counterpart with claims of other party being ignorant & lacks education.
I'm not going to say you shouldn't take it personally, because given the context it's clearly indirectly aimed at your original criticism. But at the same time, you shouldn't take it too harshly because it's not like your understanding of statistics determines your worth. We can't be experts at everything.

However, I still stand by the statement, and I believe saying it has more value than just me getting to vent about internet skepticism. Maybe not in this moment, maybe not for you, but I believe in it.
I'm genuinely surprised by how much hype this game is getting.
I get it, a somewhat classic inspiered art style is amazing and all but, at least for me, there is nothing to look foreward to until I know that the gameplay is returning into a direction that is enjoyable for me as well...
It's kinda sad seeing how this years CoD, a franchise that I have lost hope in a long time ago, is looking quite promising while I'm really not excited about the next Halo game. 10 years of disappointing games have taken their toll I guess...
tsassi wrote:
Which I can admit that the original post lacked part of the explanation as to why I doubt this particular poll. There can be polls of similar size that are somewhat accurate with a marging of error. As to what is acceptable marging of error is up to the viewer.
Kind of, but not really. What kind of error we have tells us what we can reasonably infer from the results. For example, with the sample of 15,000 we had the 95% confidence interval error at 0.8%. Since there was a 0.7% difference between Halo Infinite and Borderlands 3, we can't definitively say that Halo Infinite is more anticipated than Borderlands 3. On the other hand, it gets exceedingly unlikely (literally one in a billion chance) that any of the numbers would be off by more than 5%. Therefore we can with great confidence say that Halo Infinite and Borderlands 3 are more anticipated than, say, Doom Eternal.

Again, this is all assuming, hypothetically, that the poll has no bias.

So, sure, how confident you want to be before you accept something as "probably true" is up to you. But if you're going to be very skeptical, you should ask yourself whteher you're also afraid of getting struck by a lightning after winning the lottery.

And nothing to cling on but just as a side note, that phrasing before it seems to imply that there could be only 1 type of "correct criticism" as some form of pre-educated answer to a test.
But with a poll, there really isn't. Either you question the sample size with respect to the question being studied, or you question how well the sample represents the population being studied. But since the sample size in this case is very reasonable given the results, there is only one type of legitimate criticism you can make here.

when likely the voting pool is likely not equal part of fans from different communities
What do you mean? Obviously, it's not going to be equal parts of fans of different games when the games in question represent vastly different levels of popularity. But that's just generally true at the population level, not a bias in the IGN reader base.

And yet again with emotional ending texts that dont really seem to serve any purpose other than perhaps in an attemp to push down the counterpart with claims of other party being ignorant & lacks education.
I'm not going to say you shouldn't take it personally, because given the context it's clearly indirectly aimed at your original criticism. But at the same time, you shouldn't take it too harshly because it's not like your understanding of statistics determines your worth. We can't be experts at everything.

However, I still stand by the statement, and I believe saying it has more value than just me getting to vent about internet skepticism. Maybe not in this moment, maybe not for you, but I believe in it.
And the problem is that it's hypothetical that the reader base of a gaming media would be proper representation of the gaming community itself in scaled down matter, which is the problem with the beliveability of this particular poll.
Similar problem would be asking what political party is popular at the moment while asking that question from just 1 certain area. Likely certain areas have concentrated similar mindsets as do certain media sites have certain mindsets drawn to them (like Waypoint likely draws Halo fans, though obviously a bit differently) to which the platform caters to & which has some personal opinions about certain games which leads to reader base molding accordingly for it's near impossible to be fully neutral and in usual cases similar minds are drawn together.
Hence why I think that the example of even lightning strike (which is more likely than winning in lottery) is flawed. Besides, lighting strike would be more predictable than anything else in this topic given lightning always seeks easiest way into the ground. Though thats siderailing a bit.

As to what I meant by equal parts is that if there would be something like 10,000 nails & 20 hammers the equal scaled down parts of those would be 1,000 nails & 2 hammers if there was a 10% representative models.And definitely not so that there would be equal parts like 10 nails & 10 hammers, definitely not.
So obviously it weren't the best phrased example but hopefully this was more understandable.

And im not trying to cling in the personal part, I simply question whether it adds anything of value to the discussion. It just reminded me of cheap psychological tricks to push down the counterpart on the discussion.
As for now you seem to be continuing that trend by stating your assumptions as fact with condessending phrasing added to it.
Im not saying that trying to claim psychological high ground is the only option for those ending sentences but they just resemble such basics awfully lot.
xAXIOS wrote:
THATS HUGE! I’ve never really been a Borderlands fan, but I know it’s a respectable franchise and is highly anticipated. But I never thought the hunger for Halo bas grown so much! If 343 really plays this right, Halo can take back the crown it seems epcically with a PC, and Scarlett release. Thoughts Halo community!?
I love Borderlands 2. Honestly, I'm more anticipated for Borderlands 3 rather than Halo Infinite because there's a chance of it being trash given 343i's previous track record.
I love both, can't wait for borderlands 3 but I'm always more excited to Halo related.
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