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Halo Infinite like God of War

OP Tariq9898

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I feel like it can be a great way to get a good emotional campaign, it's one of the reasons I like H4's campaign since it was more emotional than the Bungie games. I hope they go with a smaller cast so they can be built up more but I also hope they don't just toss out everything H5 set up since that'd be the easy way out.
Halo Infinite going in a similar style like God of War? That's an interesting idea. That means the new Halo video game will have a long shot. This also shows there could be no cut scenes in the game. I am very curious to see what will it look like in the upcoming Halo Infinite.
Yes! It'll be like one continuous and focused journey. Unless 343 pulls off another time jump without cutting. Even if it's a jump in few days.
Im all for it, the two other games are now multi million dollar franchises for a reason. The way the captivate the gamer in such detail in every scene makes it feel like you dont have to wait on loading times or harsh positioning between cinematics. You FEEL like youre actually playing for the characters development.
I agree. Infinite is currently being written by a narrrative director and narrative lead from Batman Arkham and Bioshock respectively.

There also seems to be more of a focus on campaign rather than multiplayer this time around. But the marketing has barely just started. So we'll see.
GP Carry wrote:
Disclaimer - I never played God of War so I have no clue how it worked for that game. I do spend a lot of time watching/discussing films, so my response here is more focused on cinematic understanding vs. seeing examples of it in games.
Feel free to skip over this dorky digression into film. Long takes/continuous shots are far more common in cinema than true single shots. Most recent example of a single shot (first one in a long time) was 1917 (it had a few minor "cheats" but were not easy to detect). Some popular, contemporary directors that use long takes/continuous shots include the likes of PT Anderson, Martin Scorcese and Quentin Tarantino. Scorcese is known for his famous "Copa Shot" where Henry (Ray Liotta) leads Karen (Lorraine Bracco) into the Copacabana nightclub through the back entrance. It's one continuous shot that follows them from behind. Scene has been studied extensively because it works so well, not because of the challenges involved with pulling off a shot like that. What the scene aims to accomplish could have easily been shortened by just showing Henry greet the door man and slipping him some cash as he's escorted to his table. You get the same jist - the guy practically owns the place whenever he stops by. Scorcese takes this to a whole new level though with the Copa shot. From the way they enter the club (Henry is subject to no rules; not an ordinary guy) to the treatment he gets as the staff literally pulls out a fresh table from the back and sets it up in prime positioning (they're essentially parting seas to give him the best service on the spot). PT Anderson was clearly heavily inspired by the "Copa Shot" when he made Boogie Nights. The opening scene follows Luis Guzman's character around the club as he shmoozes with all his regular guests, William H. Macy's final moments at the NYE party, and the final long take of the film that follows Burt Reynold's around his house (a clear "back to business" call back to earlier in the story given Mark Wahlberg's return).

I bring up these examples because they show this style does more than simply "immerse" the viewer (or player, in a video game) into the current setting. When done well, these types of techniques enhance films in so many other ways. If we're talking about long takes, good ones tend to be very complementary and cohesive with the broader picture even if they aren't used throughout the film. I for one wasn't the biggest fan of 1917. I certainly admire what they were able to accomplish with regards to the cinematic challenge. That being said, having the movie come off as one single shot didn't really enhance that particular film for me.

Okay, back to HaloUse of a single shot (or even a sequence of long/continuous shots with a few hard-to-detect "cheats") in Halo sounds like an extreme direct response to giving the community more Chief. Most of us were obviously not thrilled (big understatement) about the H5 campaign and felt "cheated" by the lack of time with Chief (the whole marketing campaign vs. actual game story is an entirely different discussion). It's an appropriate response, and I commend them for exploring new approaches to campaign design if this really ends up being the case. That being said, it's a big opportunity to really do something spectacular with the story. If 343 does this, I hope they don't blow it by just blindly using the technique and not taking advantage of the perks that come with it. What do I mean by this? If we're going to be constantly on Chief the whole time, try to find ways for players to think about what that must really be like. Support comes and goes, but a lot of the time, you are all alone on a foreign planet (or ring) with unreliable direct assistance a lot of the time. Find ways to really hammer that in to the player. Probably partly due to nostalgia, but levels like "The Library" in CE did a great job at this (even though you did have 343 and sentinels helping out).

Another thing this method allows you to do is give players a better sense of pacing in the story (not talking about gameplay pacing). Even as a loyal CE-3 fanboy, those games don't necessarily do a great job at communicating the pacing of events occurring. CE feels like you are just going from place to place, mission to mission, without a solid sense of how much time as actually elapsed. Halo Reach did a decent job with this during certain legs of the game (certain strings of missions worked seamlessly back to back, giving you the sense the planet was going to fall apart in a matter of hours or days, not weeks). With a single-shot approach, you can really highlight how crazy Chief's missions really are by heightening things like sense of urgency and the feeling of being in a seemingly endless sprint to get something done. You don't need to resort to lazy tactics like putting time/date stamps on each mission that blatantly hammers in how short of a period elapses over the course of the game. Creating a solid experience (gameplay, dialogue, and cinematic scenes) and cohesive transition from level to level should communicate those things to the player.
*Mentions 1917, Scorcese, Tarantino*
Wow... You truly do enjoy the art of filmmaking! You probably enjoy the art of acting as well?? Daniel Day Lewis, Brando, Joaquin Phoenix, etc? Honestly, reading what you wrote was inspiring for me as an Actor. I still have yet to watch 1917, Godfather, The Pianist, Citizen Kane, Once Upon A Time In Hollywood, Apocalypse Now, Sophie's Choice, Full Metal Jacket, and countless other classics. I did recently watch There Will Be Blood as well as Joker.

Speaking of The Library, I'm beginning to feel like that stage has gotten more love than hate as time goes on and our understanding increases. As a kid, I "hated" that stage. Now I love it.

What you described about the potential pacing for this game applied perfectly to God of War. It's a big reason why it won GOTY. The thing with GOW is that you were with the characters each step of the way. There were not time jumps at all. They didn't even sleep lol. It was a very moment by moment type of story. It was a gradual journey as you experience the intensity of each scene up to the climax and so on. It provided a sense of consistency and unity in a way.

Another thing I wanted to bring up...

Dan Chosich's way of describing Halo Infinite is very inspiring when you read the blogs on his website. Essentially, it takes ideas from the philosophies behind Manifest Destiny. It's design philosophy is a parallel to humans using stars for guidance centuries ago. The theme is often tied to personal and self discovery as you journey across the great plains in search of something inward. Dan also went on to say that the game allows players to become the explorer archetype. We already know the game uses themes like hope, wonder, mystery, and exploration. But what I'm saying is: what do these imply in terms of game design (expressiveness) and storytelling??

https://youtu.be/PTreFoLAufw

If you haven't already, you should watch this video! The section I want to point out in particular starts from 33:50 - 36:05. It's a small section that has something very special and magical to it. I can't yet describe it. Every image shown always has something more to it. It's like every frame has a history imbedded within it. The music used was very intuitive. Which leads me to my point. Halo at its core, is a very abstract and intuitive game.

How do you think the single shot ties all of this in?
Tariq9898 wrote:
GP Carry wrote:
*Mentions 1917, Scorcese, Tarantino*
Wow... You truly do enjoy the art of filmmaking! You probably enjoy the art of acting as well?? Daniel Day Lewis, Brando, Joaquin Phoenix, etc? Honestly, reading what you wrote was inspiring for me as an Actor. I still have yet to watch 1917, Godfather, The Pianist, Citizen Kane, Once Upon A Time In Hollywood, Apocalypse Now, Sophie's Choice, Full Metal Jacket, and countless other classics. I did recently watch There Will Be Blood as well as Joker.

Speaking of The Library, I'm beginning to feel like that stage has gotten more love than hate as time goes on and our understanding increases. As a kid, I "hated" that stage. Now I love it.

What you described about the potential pacing for this game applied perfectly to God of War. It's a big reason why it won GOTY. The thing with GOW is that you were with the characters each step of the way. There were not time jumps at all. They didn't even sleep lol. It was a very moment by moment type of story. It was a gradual journey as you experience the intensity of each scene up to the climax and so on. It provided a sense of consistency and unity in a way.

Another thing I wanted to bring up...

Dan Chosich's way of describing Halo Infinite is very inspiring when you read the blogs on his website. Essentially, it takes ideas from the philosophies behind Manifest Destiny. It's design philosophy is a parallel to humans using stars for guidance centuries ago. The theme is often tied to personal and self discovery as you journey across the great plains in search of something inward. Dan also went on to say that the game allows players to become the explorer archetype. We already know the game uses themes like hope, wonder, mystery, and exploration. But what I'm saying is: what do these imply in terms of game design (expressiveness) and storytelling??

https://youtu.be/PTreFoLAufw

If you haven't already, you should watch this video! The section I want to point out in particular starts from 33:50 - 36:05. It's a small section that has something very special and magical to it. I can't yet describe it. Every image shown always has something more to it. It's like every frame has a history imbedded within it. The music used was very intuitive. Which leads me to my point. Halo at its core, is a very abstract and intuitive game.

How do you think the single shot ties all of this in?
Thanks for such a thoughtful response to my post and sharing that documentary video link. I was not aware of it before, so thanks for bringing it to my attention. I watched about half of it this morning (and skipped ahead to see the section you referenced specifically). Have not finished the rest yet.

You mentioned some great films in your post, although I agree the list of "must watch" is seemingly endless. There Will Be Blood is on my list of top 3 films from the last decade. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat more about movies.

I totally agree with you regarding The Library. As a kid, the 10-year old version of me never liked that level (or 343 Guilty Spark for that matter) during my first few campaign runs of the game growing up. Fast forward to more recently, where I started playing the older campaigns for the first time again in 10+ years and both of those levels are two of my favorites from CE. People are quick to criticize The Library for its repetitiveness/lazy and confusing level design. However, re-experiencing it now with a lot more years of maturity and appreciation for other forms of art (whether it's film, music, etc.) I finally "get it" now. It's pacing is so fitting - a non-stop run 'n gun with minimal breaks (aside from the elevator rides, a few short hallways, and some great shortcuts/exploits that are handy for speedrunning on Legendary). The original score that accompanies the gameplay from nearly the moment you start is so complementary and fitting for the experience. It's actually one of the few levels (along with 343 Guilty Spark) that I still prefer to play on the original graphics (vs. anniversary). The monolithic qualities of the surrounding structures are more emphasized and dimly lit settings seem more fitting to me. Given the level design and its length, certain points of the level just seem like you're hopelessly shooting through an endless labyrinth. Guilty Spark guides you (literally as a light) to the light at the end of the tunnel (the lit up Index atop the structure) but there are plenty of moments where that hope is missing and visually not present (maybe I am giving Bungie too much credit here by over-thinking it). For me, that's the key to changing your opinion of the level being annoying/repetitive/lazy filler to "oh, I see what they're doing here. This is very clever." I think the level also fits in nicely with the notion that Chief's story in CE draws influence from Campbell's "Hero's Journey" story structure (K-12 English studies, anyone?). It's one of Chief's trials where he is aided by a helper before coming to some revelation before positioning himself for return.

After watching part of that video, I am starting to believe Halo's campaign is in much better hands this time around vs. the last game's campaign. I am standing by what I said before - if they decide to use single shot, I really hope they take advantage of the storytelling perks that come with it and don't just view it as a prescriptive approach to cinematography.
Tariq9898 wrote:
Halo Infinite going in a similar style like God of War? That's an interesting idea. That means the new Halo video game will have a long shot. This also shows there could be no cut scenes in the game. I am very curious to see what will it look like in the upcoming Halo Infinite.
Yes! It'll be like one continuous and focused journey. Unless 343 pulls off another time jump without cutting. Even if it's a jump in few days.
Hello, I have a question that I am very curious to hear from you. Let's say if the upcoming Halo Infinite did a great job using the similar style from the God of War 2018 video game, do you see more Halo video games going in that direction especially filming the entire game in one continuous shot without cutting any scenes? Personally, I want to see that happened in the Halo Franchise. It will be cool to see a new Halo ODST video game being filmed in one continuous shot. Would like to hear your thoughts.
Tariq9898 wrote:
Hello, I have a question that I am very curious to hear from you. Let's say if the upcoming Halo Infinite did a great job using the similar style from the God of War 2018 video game, do you see more Halo video games going in that direction especially filming the entire game in one continuous shot without cutting any scenes? Personally, I want to see that happened in the Halo Franchise. It will be cool to see a new Halo ODST video game being filmed in one continuous shot. Would like to hear your thoughts.
I feel like that depends on two things:

1) How successful Infinite will become implementing this method. In this case, we're assuming really successful.
2) The kind of story they want to tell.

God of War did it because it told a very gradual story in which there were no time skips. It was also heavily focused on character close ups as well as their physicality. Because our body speaks. An Actor should know that there is a lot going on between dialogue. An Actor's silence can speak louder than words.. Especially great acting. Now of course, it's different for video games. The characters don't look like the actors.

They're pixelated characters who are performed by voice actors. But the concept can still apply. Assuming if the dev team really nails the animation, then it can look almost life like. Not in terms of graphics. But in terms of physicality, behaviorally, and overall believability.

*This is where I digress a bit haha*

Now, how this will apply to Halo Infinite is interesting. Because Master Chief is still a mystery. We don't know what he looks like and we probably won't see his face in Infinite. But what makes the Chief unique is his visor. His visor reflects what's in front of him. Assuming the graphics on Infinite are powerful enough to reflect the environment off his visor, we should see the behaviors of other characters from Chief's "emptiness."

By emptiness, I mean faceless. In a metaphorical sense, the Pilot shown on Chief's visor can... Mirror Brohammer's sentiment. It can provide a different way of showing empathy. It'll be an interesting dynamic to see.

Master Chief's greatest acting strength will be his physicality. His body language and actions are definite and defined. So it'll be interesting to see the Pilot (and other characters) be the cause of Chief's actions. Ultimately, having John move out of his comfort zone and develop in interesting ways.

P.S.

Typing all that out has me super excited for Infinite. But, I still need to lower my expectations. My hope is still high though.
GP Carry wrote:
Tariq9898 wrote:
GP Carry wrote:
Thanks for such a thoughtful response to my post and sharing that documentary video link. I was not aware of it before, so thanks for bringing it to my attention. I watched about half of it this morning (and skipped ahead to see the section you referenced specifically). Have not finished the rest yet.

You mentioned some great films in your post, although I agree the list of "must watch" is seemingly endless. There Will Be Blood is on my list of top 3 films from the last decade. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat more about movies.

I totally agree with you regarding The Library. As a kid, the 10-year old version of me never liked that level (or 343 Guilty Spark for that matter) during my first few campaign runs of the game growing up. Fast forward to more recently, where I started playing the older campaigns for the first time again in 10+ years and both of those levels are two of my favorites from CE. People are quick to criticize The Library for its repetitiveness/lazy and confusing level design. However, re-experiencing it now with a lot more years of maturity and appreciation for other forms of art (whether it's film, music, etc.) I finally "get it" now. It's pacing is so fitting - a non-stop run 'n gun with minimal breaks (aside from the elevator rides, a few short hallways, and some great shortcuts/exploits that are handy for speedrunning on Legendary). The original score that accompanies the gameplay from nearly the moment you start is so complementary and fitting for the experience. It's actually one of the few levels (along with 343 Guilty Spark) that I still prefer to play on the original graphics (vs. anniversary). The monolithic qualities of the surrounding structures are more emphasized and dimly lit settings seem more fitting to me. Given the level design and its length, certain points of the level just seem like you're hopelessly shooting through an endless labyrinth. Guilty Spark guides you (literally as a light) to the light at the end of the tunnel (the lit up Index atop the structure) but there are plenty of moments where that hope is missing and visually not present (maybe I am giving Bungie too much credit here by over-thinking it). For me, that's the key to changing your opinion of the level being annoying/repetitive/lazy filler to "oh, I see what they're doing here. This is very clever." I think the level also fits in nicely with the notion that Chief's story in CE draws influence from Campbell's "Hero's Journey" story structure (K-12 English studies, anyone?). It's one of Chief's trials where he is aided by a helper before coming to some revelation before positioning himself for return.

After watching part of that video, I am starting to believe Halo's campaign is in much better hands this time around vs. the last game's campaign. I am standing by what I said before - if they decide to use single shot, I really hope they take advantage of the storytelling perks that come with it and don't just view it as a prescriptive approach to cinematography.
Sent you a message not too long ago. For some reason, it still hasn't shown up on my 'Messages' tab. Did you receive it?

Honestly, I never thought of 343 Guilty Spark being that beacon of light in The Library until you mentioned it. And wow... That's a great example. When I played The Library for the 1st time, I was constantly lost, overwhelmed, and felt hopeless. As you said, it felt like an endless labyrinth. Like I was consistently digging my own grave. Many times I asked myself "When is this stage going to end?" Or "Can I fight the Covenant?" and etc. And whenever I do see 343, I always say "There you are! Please don't leave me again!". It gave me a jolt of hope and happiness seeing 343. Because it was a constant reminder that I'm heading in the right direction. Needless to say, I was SO HAPPY to fight the Covenant next stage lol.

Agreed. I feel much better about Infinite's campaign than I did 5. 343 fired the Halo 5 writer and hired Batman Arkham narrative director and Bioshock writer and designer. 343 also hired a music supervisor who previously worked on God of War, TLOU, and Uncharted as well as a Naughty Dog senior environmental artist who worked on TLOU and Uncharted 4. All of this makes me think Infinite will have a mature story. Like CE did. I wrote an answer to TanEugene94 before this comment on how Chief's character could dynamically play out with other characters based on the type of story Infinite will most likely tell.

Halo Infinite has a very special kind of hype that I personally haven't experienced before. It's the most mysterious in terms of pre launch marketing. It also has the biggest development time.
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