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Halo Infinite needs Battle Royal to stay Relevant

OP Nano Hypercube

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If the game came out today or next month then I'd agree with you 100%.
But in 2 years? I don't think 343 needs to bet on a current trend for a game that's gonna come out in 2020 at the earliest.

Also, we all remember what happened last time a Halo game tried to follow current FPS trends.
*insert Halo 4 population decline chart*

Halo is at it's best when it's setting new trends, not tries to follow them.
Setting new trends and innovating is what made the Halo franchise as big as it used to be.
Ever since that trend stopped the popularity of Halo has declined. Dramatically. Horribly.
And not just it's popularity. It's relevance in the global FPS market.

I do love the idea of Halo BR because it can fit the lore very well, as a kind of "Spartan training ground".
But I also think it's too late for that now. Unless...

Unless they release a stand alone (maybe free-to-play) Halo BR game in the next 6-8 months. And it came out on both PC and Xbox, with cross-play.
If they did that, I'd be down for the idea. And so would the whole world, I think.

But not in Halo Infinite. No.
Personally, I hate BR. I do not wish to see it in Halo past a custom games variant.
eviltedi wrote:
Ok, how do I put this? Battle royale is not going to live past summer 2019. Anyone who thinks BR will stay relevant enough to put it in a Halo game that will either be the (not very likely) last title in the series or be the only one for three years until the next one, doesn't have much foresight. Take a look at Black Ops 4, it sacrificed a campaign for a BR mode which ultimately fell flat on its face due to multiple bugs and performance issues. Most people reading this will most likely hate CoD with a passion, but some like myself are probably disheartened to see the series die from bad development choices. BR doesn't seem to be a good gamemode choice for a game that will last for a few years. Look, I like playing BR games, I have quite a few PUBG games under my belt, but I just don't see a BR mode surviving very long with a large enough playerbase.
Where are you getting this from ? CoD Battle Royale has not fallen flat on it's face, whilst there is the odd sporadic glitch there is nothing game breaking, I play it daily without issue. You say you don't see a BR game / mode surviving very long with a large enough player base, Fortnite has been around for 15 months and is still the most played game on Xbox Live, PUBG has been around for something like 20 months, and still has a decent amount of players despite it having numerous technical issues. Battle Royale is going nowhere anytime soon, CoD 4 just launched and it's 2nd on Xbox Live most played here in the UK. Halo could have it's own Battle Royale and be just as successful imo.
Really? It hasn't fell flat on its face? It lost plenty of players in the first week because of massive lag spikes, the fact that performance was REDUCED from the beta and the fact that it crashed constantly for lots of people. If that isn't falling flat on its face, then what is it? And what I meant was it wouldn't have a large enough playerbase in a few years, I mean, the BR market is already becoming over saturated and Halo having it for a few years until the next one isn't a great idea. CoD can get rid of it next year. Halong can't.
Well it has not fallen flat on it's face from what I've seen. I'll admit, they annoyed the players that wanted a campaign, but it's still selling extremely well and it's the 2nd most played game on Xbox live. I have not had lag spikes and if performance was reduced it has not affected the game in a negative way because it's doing well. As for oversaturation, compared to other genres there are not that many BR games at all, and some are mobile only. Also there are only a few decent ones like Blackout, PUBG and Fortnite. There is room for Halo to have one, and as I stated before, Halo Battle Royale could be the best imo.
I could see 343 doing a infinite odst or a halo 6 odst something like that and making it br focused with a small firefight or small campaign. but the focus would be battle royal and it would be odst's dropping in, just a thought
In 2 years it would probably be seen as lame if they added it to the Halo franchise.
Worst suggestion I have ever heard on this website. Halo is Halo, changing the game play style and copying trending game play styles, only suggests Halo is weak and dishonorable. And we all LOVE Halo SO much because of what Halo has been, changing it would be a catastrophic failure, that I doubt has ever crossed the mind of the developers.
Halo Infinite needs Battle Royal mode to stay relevant & retain multiplayer player count. BR is not a fade, it will be one of expected mode to successful FPS going forward, even Call of Duty & Battlefield are implementing their own version of BR. Fortnite, as worldwide sensation is becoming one of first FPS they played for lot of audience, not to mention PUBG. That audience will eventually look for other similar games, CoD & BF is doing just that. If Halo does not have BR, they loss the opportunity to bring part of that huge & growing audience, which will be hard to ignore. Halo has a great opportunity to bring futuristic BR mode which no AAA game currently offers.
One of main problems I see in Halo today is that it is held back by huge baggage of nostalgia, those modes that no longer is relevant & trying to appeal to older generation that no longer plays the game. Grief ball & addition of jet pack is prime example of this. Grief ball which community demanded to be added, which no one plays anyway & jetpack & dash that players hated, which turned out to be great addition to the game. If the game tries to appeal to the old & ignore the upcoming players, it will ultimately fail to capture enough audience to stay relevant.
Yes, Battle Royal is a fad. Just like survival games, and Zombie games were a fad. Any games in those genres that are still successful today, are that way not because of their genre, but in spite of it. Also, "ThE wIdEr DeMoGrApHiC" isn't a thing. Chasing fads, and wider demographic alienates your fans like nothing else, which was seen with Halo's fall from grace. Halo does not need to, and should not copy fads. Especially ones that will be dead by the time the next game rolls around.

Also, I'd recommend you not point to Battlefield as a great example for your argument, because sales going down 67% doesn't look like a great argument for battle royal. Mind you, your spelling is somewhat indicative of why you have this mindset, I'd imagine. Not trying to insult you, but I'd wager you're probably not any older than thirteen. Probably explains your obsession with turning an ARENA shooter, into battle royal. You want battle royal, go play fortnite "the worldwide sensation FPS"

FPS=First person shooter
Thought I'd put that there, since you don't know what it means. Calling fortnite an FPS, FFS.
I don’t see what the big deal is. BR is essentially Bungie’s old Free-For-All playlist except with the ability to drop anywhere on the map at the beginning. Maybe Fortnite did the “drop-in” BR first, but every developer is guilty of “stealing” concepts and making it their own. It’s like saying every FPS out there is a rip-off of Wolfenstein. Narratively, BR fits quite well in with the Halo universe. ODSTs have been dropping into combat theaters since 2001. It would be cool to expand on the concept in MP and actually get to experience it yourself. Also, we saw Spartans drop into the fray in typical BR fashion in a brief scene at the beginning of Halo 4. And most recently, Fireteam Osiris jumping down to Kamchatka to assault the Covenant was epic. It would at least be great if this concept could be applied to War Zone. As for COD Zombies being a fad...fads only last a few years tops. Zombies has been going strong for over a decade. It’s practically the same thing over and over but people keep eating it up. It’s not going anywhere anytime soon and neither is BR. People around here are mostly of the anti-COD (or anti-anything-NOT-Halo) camp anyway, so I’d take it with a grain of salt. I, myself am a fan of almost every FPS, but Halo is the closest to my heart. I hope 343 keeps taking the series in fresh new directions—even if it is a variation of the latest “fad”.
I dont think it does.

I think BR will be long played out by the time Halo Infinite releases in 2020.
yeeeeeeeaaah! Halo PUBG the next generation...!!!
Will222222 wrote:
Halo Infinite needs Battle Royal mode to stay relevant & retain multiplayer player count. BR is not a fade, it will be one of expected mode to successful FPS going forward, even Call of Duty & Battlefield are implementing their own version of BR. Fortnite, as worldwide sensation is becoming one of first FPS they played for lot of audience, not to mention PUBG. That audience will eventually look for other similar games, CoD & BF is doing just that. If Halo does not have BR, they loss the opportunity to bring part of that huge & growing audience, which will be hard to ignore. Halo has a great opportunity to bring futuristic BR mode which no AAA game currently offers.
One of main problems I see in Halo today is that it is held back by huge baggage of nostalgia, those modes that no longer is relevant & trying to appeal to older generation that no longer plays the game. Grief ball & addition of jet pack is prime example of this. Grief ball which community demanded to be added, which no one plays anyway & jetpack & dash that players hated, which turned out to be great addition to the game. If the game tries to appeal to the old & ignore the upcoming players, it will ultimately fail to capture enough audience to stay relevant.
Yes, Battle Royal is a fad. Just like survival games, and Zombie games were a fad. Any games in those genres that are still successful today, are that way not because of their genre, but in spite of it. Also, "ThE wIdEr DeMoGrApHiC" isn't a thing. Chasing fads, and wider demographic alienates your fans like nothing else, which was seen with Halo's fall from grace. Halo does not need to, and should not copy fads. Especially ones that will be dead by the time the next game rolls around.

Also, I'd recommend you not point to Battlefield as a great example for your argument, because sales going down 67% doesn't look like a great argument for battle royal. Mind you, your spelling is somewhat indicative of why you have this mindset, I'd imagine. Not trying to insult you, but I'd wager you're probably not any older than thirteen. Probably explains your obsession with turning an ARENA shooter, into battle royal. You want battle royal, go play fortnite "the worldwide sensation FPS"

FPS=First person shooter
Thought I'd put that there, since you don't know what it means. Calling fortnite an FPS, FFS.
A fad is a short lived enthusiasm for something. CoD Zombies has been around for nine or ten years, Battle Royale can be traced back at least eighteen years, the Battle Royale games have been around at least six years. Battle Royale will not disappear or be dead by the time Halo Infinite drops. Halo could have an excellent Battle Royale mode imo, also Battlefield V did not fail because of the inclusion of Battle Royale, the sales are down because EA and Dice made bad choices, calling their community uneducated, and then have the audacity to tell us not to buy it if we didn't like it. I took their advice.
Just so long as its something awesome like you play as an S-II trainee and you're dropped in by Pelican or Albatross, like in Fall of Reach.
Not something stupid like a bunch of Spartans in the back of a Pelican.
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To know the Lore is to know Halo
"Dont be spoiled, dont start a fight. Always be careful, here at night. Because the Spartans might come, in suits that weigh half a ton. And they'll steal from you all you gots, just like they did from Colonel Watts."
eviltedi wrote:
Will222222 wrote:
Halo Infinite needs Battle Royal mode to stay relevant & retain multiplayer player count. BR is not a fade, it will be one of expected mode to successful FPS going forward, even Call of Duty & Battlefield are implementing their own version of BR. Fortnite, as worldwide sensation is becoming one of first FPS they played for lot of audience, not to mention PUBG. That audience will eventually look for other similar games, CoD & BF is doing just that. If Halo does not have BR, they loss the opportunity to bring part of that huge & growing audience, which will be hard to ignore. Halo has a great opportunity to bring futuristic BR mode which no AAA game currently offers.
One of main problems I see in Halo today is that it is held back by huge baggage of nostalgia, those modes that no longer is relevant & trying to appeal to older generation that no longer plays the game. Grief ball & addition of jet pack is prime example of this. Grief ball which community demanded to be added, which no one plays anyway & jetpack & dash that players hated, which turned out to be great addition to the game. If the game tries to appeal to the old & ignore the upcoming players, it will ultimately fail to capture enough audience to stay relevant.
Yes, Battle Royal is a fad. Just like survival games, and Zombie games were a fad. Any games in those genres that are still successful today, are that way not because of their genre, but in spite of it. Also, "ThE wIdEr DeMoGrApHiC" isn't a thing. Chasing fads, and wider demographic alienates your fans like nothing else, which was seen with Halo's fall from grace. Halo does not need to, and should not copy fads. Especially ones that will be dead by the time the next game rolls around.

Also, I'd recommend you not point to Battlefield as a great example for your argument, because sales going down 67% doesn't look like a great argument for battle royal. Mind you, your spelling is somewhat indicative of why you have this mindset, I'd imagine. Not trying to insult you, but I'd wager you're probably not any older than thirteen. Probably explains your obsession with turning an ARENA shooter, into battle royal. You want battle royal, go play fortnite "the worldwide sensation FPS"

FPS=First person shooter
Thought I'd put that there, since you don't know what it means. Calling fortnite an FPS, FFS.
A fad is a short lived enthusiasm for something. CoD Zombies has been around for nine or ten years, Battle Royale can be traced back at least eighteen years, the Battle Royale games have been around at least six years. Battle Royale will not disappear or be dead by the time Halo Infinite drops. Halo could have an excellent Battle Royale mode imo, also Battlefield V did not fail because of the inclusion of Battle Royale, the sales are down because EA and Dice made bad choices, calling their community uneducated, and then have the audacity to tell us not to buy it if we didn't like it. I took their advice.
Lol, I know! I don’t know why people are so resistant to change. Makes them pissy even suggesting something new. Even if 343 makes a playlist and you don’t like it—DON’T PLAY IT. Don’t crap on the other guy just for wanting something different. Someone mentioned releasing a separate dedicated BR Halo game. Makes no sense. Even on a freemium level. It’s just one big map that can be included in the base H6 game. If launched separate, people will then complain 343 is trying to milk the franchise by launching 2 games in parallel (or even in short tandem). At least if BR is a playlist on H6, you can play BR Halo-style without having to boot up Fortnite or BO4. I would call it “Feet First” or “H.A.LO.” or something witty like that. It can even be kicked up a notch by jumping from ORBIT and/or make it interesting by avioding AA fire. A perfect drop will reward you with a temporary stat boost or a weapon or that can even be the whole point of a variation. Or snipe targets competitively while in free fall. See? There’s already ways to spice it up.
The problem with Halo past Halo 3 is that it felt like Bungie and then 343 were trying too hard to change Halo and make it more similar to other games like CoD. So when i come into a thread where someone says Halo needs to have a battle royale mode to stay relevant I just laugh. Halo just needs to be good. I'd prefer 343 work on making a good halo game, and then, if there is time, they can do a battle royal mode to satisfy all the progressive halo fans. But that isn't how it works. If 343 makes a BR game, the base game is going to be centered around it. So people can't just say well if you don't like it don't play it. How about if you like battle royale play the many battle royale games that are out there and don't try and change halo. Yay change! everything needs to change bla bla bla /s
eviltedi wrote:
Will222222 wrote:
Halo Infinite needs Battle Royal mode to stay relevant & retain multiplayer player count. BR is not a fade, it will be one of expected mode to successful FPS going forward, even Call of Duty & Battlefield are implementing their own version of BR. Fortnite, as worldwide sensation is becoming one of first FPS they played for lot of audience, not to mention PUBG. That audience will eventually look for other similar games, CoD & BF is doing just that. If Halo does not have BR, they loss the opportunity to bring part of that huge & growing audience, which will be hard to ignore. Halo has a great opportunity to bring futuristic BR mode which no AAA game currently offers.
One of main problems I see in Halo today is that it is held back by huge baggage of nostalgia, those modes that no longer is relevant & trying to appeal to older generation that no longer plays the game. Grief ball & addition of jet pack is prime example of this. Grief ball which community demanded to be added, which no one plays anyway & jetpack & dash that players hated, which turned out to be great addition to the game. If the game tries to appeal to the old & ignore the upcoming players, it will ultimately fail to capture enough audience to stay relevant.
Yes, Battle Royal is a fad. Just like survival games, and Zombie games were a fad. Any games in those genres that are still successful today, are that way not because of their genre, but in spite of it. Also, "ThE wIdEr DeMoGrApHiC" isn't a thing. Chasing fads, and wider demographic alienates your fans like nothing else, which was seen with Halo's fall from grace. Halo does not need to, and should not copy fads. Especially ones that will be dead by the time the next game rolls around.

Also, I'd recommend you not point to Battlefield as a great example for your argument, because sales going down 67% doesn't look like a great argument for battle royal. Mind you, your spelling is somewhat indicative of why you have this mindset, I'd imagine. Not trying to insult you, but I'd wager you're probably not any older than thirteen. Probably explains your obsession with turning an ARENA shooter, into battle royal. You want battle royal, go play fortnite "the worldwide sensation FPS"

FPS=First person shooter
Thought I'd put that there, since you don't know what it means. Calling fortnite an FPS, FFS.
A fad is a short lived enthusiasm for something. CoD Zombies has been around for nine or ten years, Battle Royale can be traced back at least eighteen years, the Battle Royale games have been around at least six years. Battle Royale will not disappear or be dead by the time Halo Infinite drops. Halo could have an excellent Battle Royale mode imo, also Battlefield V did not fail because of the inclusion of Battle Royale, the sales are down because EA and Dice made bad choices, calling their community uneducated, and then have the audacity to tell us not to buy it if we didn't like it. I took their advice.
Lol, I know! I don’t know why people are so resistant to change. Makes them pissy even suggesting something new. Even if 343 makes a playlist and you don’t like it—DON’T PLAY IT. Don’t crap on the other guy just for wanting something different. At least you can play BR Halo-style without having to boot up Fortnite or BO4. Same with micro transactions; I never understood the hate. Don’t want it? Don’t buy it! Most MTs in most games are only cosmetic items anyway.
"Resistant to change"? I wonder if it just simply put isn't that some people do not like the change which is happening, and what is changing, not just change overall.
Before you go on a typing rampage about how "people" will always complain, is it always the same people? And can you prove it?

As far as "don't play it if you don't like it".
Consider that BO4 lacks a proper campaign.
Consider what Halo 5 lacked at launch, and that it had Warzone.
Consider that i343 has been chasing trends, poorly I might add, for a while and implementing a BR mode would be seen just as that, trend chasing, what if that too is done poorly?

"people" are afraid something will be cut out in favour of a mode they can get to play elsewhere. Something they like may get cut for a new potentially mediocre mode.

So, what exactly would a BR mode in Halo try to do? Chase another demographic? Convey a new experience for the "old" fanbase?

MTs? If the publishers wouldn't want people to buy them, they wouldn't have the games try to in some way or another motivate players to purchase these items. Sometimes through the gameplay, like introducing long grinds. Which even affect the players who do not use MTs. Especially in a game which cost 60$. What was it Sterling said? FeeToPay?
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Lol, I know! I don’t know why people are so resistant to change. Makes them pissy even suggesting something new. Even if 343 makes a playlist and you don’t like it—DON’T PLAY IT. Don’t crap on the other guy just for wanting something different. At least you can play BR Halo-style without having to boot up Fortnite or BO4. Same with micro transactions; I never understood the hate. Don’t want it? Don’t buy it! Most MTs in most games are only cosmetic items anyway.
Because it's not that simple. Game development doesn't have infinite resources. For any new game mode, something has to give. Whether that is the budget, the development time, some other game mode, or something else, something always has to give. A great example of this is Warzone in Halo 5, which to great disappointment of many players displaced traditional BTB. A more subtle example is Invasion in Reach, which didn't outright displace another gametype, but meant that some maps had to be shared between Invasion and BTB, which made for some suboptimal BTB maps. And this obviously doesn't apply just to game modes, but everything in game development: since there is a finite amount of resources, for every new feature some other feature will get less resources, or will need to go completely. Therefore, if I see no value in the new feature, it is in my interests to actively oppose it to protect the features I do care about. "Don't play it" is not a satisfactory solution.

To address the case of microtransactions in particular, the principle is the same. In this case—ignoring the pay-to-win aspect and assuming only cosmetic microtransactions—the issue is that microtransactions make unlocking items much more boring than it could be. And I'm not talking about the fact that buying things with real money is boring, but that the kind of in-game unlock system which incentivizes players to buy microtransactions (which is what developers implementing microtransactions are aiming for) is much less interesting for the player than the alternatives. The time an resources that could be spent on building a fun system for unlocking items are instead spent on researching how to milk the most money out of players without driving them away. From the perspective of any player who wants to have as much fun in the game as possible, this is obviously suboptimal.

So, in summary, in all cases, there's a very concrete "if I accept this thing, it might make the game less fun for me" rationale at play, which is completely justifiable. After all, maximizing our own enjoyment is what we want the most. To put it bluntly: we all want to enjoy the game maximally, even if it comes at the expense of the enjoyment of others.
What person? The "anti-change person", no compromise?
-Not actually against what I write here, I think it'd be rather interesting to try out.
-What's this? A compromise of sorts? An old mechanic and a new mechanic combined.
-Change Halo like this? I am very against this idea, wonder what idiot wrote it.
-Ditch the current movement mechanics for these? Totally no change at all.

Let's see, you first make a generalisation regarding people who do not agree with how current Halo is handled, or where it's headed. Then a quick jab at that generalisation. Followed by declaring not to have any sort of understanding of a dislike towards MTs.
When it's explained to you, defensive mode is entered and out comes what I assume are attempts at insults? If not then I don't see the relevance of them.

Why not? How about allocating resource on trying something else other than experiences already available from many other sources? Or improving things?
-SpOps was a great idea, horrible execution. Tossed into the bin
-Firefight was awesome, axed.
-Invasion, lots of potential, ditched.
-Theatre? Well it's degraded over the years.
Lol, I know! I don’t know why people are so resistant to change. Makes them pissy even suggesting something new. Even if 343 makes a playlist and you don’t like it—DON’T PLAY IT. Don’t crap on the other guy just for wanting something different. At least you can play BR Halo-style without having to boot up Fortnite or BO4. Same with micro transactions; I never understood the hate. Don’t want it? Don’t buy it! Most MTs in most games are only cosmetic items anyway.
You know, that's exactly the sort of comments I would hear about Warzone when Halo 5 was about to be released. "If you don't like it, don't play it! Play the other stuff!"

People thought it was a perfectly acceptable remark, until we come to notice how most of the manpower was spent on Warzone, multiple modes, specifically BTB, were missing and is now community-made via Forge maps, the whole REQ system and customization is geared towards Warzone, and the previously missing Forge mode couldn't even be used on Warzone maps except for a glitch.

But if you didn't like Warzone, you just didn't have to play it right? Just play the equally devoted to BTB...oh wait.
Quote:
A fad is a short lived enthusiasm for something. CoD Zombies has been around for nine or ten years, Battle Royale can be traced back at least eighteen years, the Battle Royale games have been around at least six years. Battle Royale will not disappear or be dead by the time Halo Infinite drops. Halo could have an excellent Battle Royale mode imo, also Battlefield V did not fail because of the inclusion of Battle Royale, the sales are down because EA and Dice made bad choices, calling their community uneducated, and then have the audacity to tell us not to buy it if we didn't like it. I took their advice.
Battle Royale can be traced back five years. If you are thinking about the novel, a completely different media, that came out in 2003, again, not eighteen years. The first "game" made in the Battle Royale genre was a mod for ARMA. This was made in 2013, I believe, so over five years ago. However, the genre only ever exploded post the launch of PUBG, which started the Battle Royale craze, making the genre a fad. Your error was in assuming that when a fad dies down, whatever it was disappears completely, post craze. That is not the case. As in your example of CoD Zombies. It remains popular, yes. But it has no great "craze" surrounding it anymore. It was a fad, extremely popular, but now it is not. It has its player base, but every Youtuber ever isn't trying to ride the views from CoD zombies, as they once did. And that is what is happening with Battle Royale currently. It is a fad, and it will die down. Certain games in the genre will still succeed and do well, but being a "Battle Royale" will not be a selling point. Which leads into my next point.

The point in regards to Battlefield V was that adding a Battle Royale mode does not make a game good. This much is obvious, as EA's latest blunder, in a long line of blunders, is a mediocre game. They probably thought they could sell it based on their new Battle Royale mode, along with myriad other inane focus group ideas. However, Battlefield's core audience already know what they want from a Battlefield game, much as Halo fans know what they want from Halo. Having 343i focus time and resources on something that you could easily make in Forge for play in custom games is absolutely superfluous. If you say, asked for things like increasing the maximum number of players in custom games, to 100, or whatever so tickles your fancy, well, that wouldn't be so specific and wasteful. But devoting resources to something that is distinctly not Halo because you want to play Battle Royale with a Halo texture pack is ridiculous. You could easily make a BR map in Halo 5, let alone whatever improvements they make in Halo Infinite. So why do you think it's a worthwhile venture to spend an ungodly amount of time on something that doesn't sell a game, can be done by the community, and alienates the core audience?

Now, to go off topic, -Yoink- EA. They deserve bankruptcy after their recent stunt. Changing history is one thing, calling your customer ignorant is another... telling them not to by your game shortly thereafter is just beyond stupid, and then mocking them at an early celebratory party (before your game fails utterly; wholly) is suicide.
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