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Halo: Sprint Evolved?

OP Anomaly 2l8

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tsassi wrote:
It really is a non issue , we the halo community will just need to adapt and overcome if the initial movement systems and combat loop in Infinite isn't to our immediate liking , just like we all do with any different fps title when we first sit down to play .
Maybe it's just me, but when I play an FPS that isn't to my liking, I quit playing it instead begrudgingly trying to fool myself into thinking that it's a worthwhile experience. I'm more of a stand-for-what-you-believe-in than apathetically-accept-what-you're-given kind of guy.
Fair enough , you'll be playing in a very small game pool with an even smaller playing group .i haven't found a fps movement system that's ever the problem it's always other factors like Ttk ,map design , sandbox balance ect ect, yet the halo community still seems to focus in on one point 'sprint' . It really is a non issue
Interesting argument about apathy and acceptance , I'd suggest applying this attitude toward micro transactions and loot boxes rather than movement systems as it would have a far greater impact to everyone's overall gaming enjoyment .
Fair enough , you'll be playing in a very small game pool with an even smaller playing group
How so? I mean, you might be correct, but how do you infer that when I said nothing about my general preferences? I just expressed my way of dealing games I don't find enjoyable regardless of what those games are.

i haven't found a fps movement system that's ever the problem it's always other factors like Ttk ,map design , sandbox balance ect ect, yet the halo community still seems to focus in on one point 'sprint' . It really is a non issue
I haven't found a cheese that tastes good, but I'm not jumping to the conclusion that everybody hates cheese because of that.

Interesting argument about apathy and acceptance , I'd suggest applying this attitude toward micro transactions and loot boxes rather than movement systems as it would have a far greater impact to everyone's overall gaming enjoyment .
Why not both? I'm good at multi-tasking: I can passionately dislike more than one thing.
tsassi wrote:
Fair enough , you'll be playing in a very small game pool with an even smaller playing group
How so? I mean, you might be correct, but how do you infer that when I said nothing about my general preferences? I just expressed my way of dealing games I don't find enjoyable regardless of what those games are.

i haven't found a fps movement system that's ever the problem it's always other factors like Ttk ,map design , sandbox balance ect ect, yet the halo community still seems to focus in on one point 'sprint' . It really is a non issue
I haven't found a cheese that tastes good, but I'm not jumping to the conclusion that everybody hates cheese because of that.

Interesting argument about apathy and acceptance , I'd suggest applying this attitude toward micro transactions and loot boxes rather than movement systems as it would have a far greater impact to everyone's overall gaming enjoyment .
Why not both? I'm good at multi-tasking: I can passionately dislike more than one thing.
I would suggest without knowing your particular fps gaming quirks outside of the fact your a mod on a halo forum who seems to champion the classic movement model over the enhanced movement one , I may be wrong but I don't think it's a crazy long stretch for one to assume what your fps gaming preferences are
As for cheese not tasting good ,,,,,,,,um ok that's just being plain weird
tsassi wrote:
Fair enough , you'll be playing in a very small game pool with an even smaller playing group
How so? I mean, you might be correct, but how do you infer that when I said nothing about my general preferences? I just expressed my way of dealing games I don't find enjoyable regardless of what those games are.

i haven't found a fps movement system that's ever the problem it's always other factors like Ttk ,map design , sandbox balance ect ect, yet the halo community still seems to focus in on one point 'sprint' . It really is a non issue
I haven't found a cheese that tastes good, but I'm not jumping to the conclusion that everybody hates cheese because of that.

Interesting argument about apathy and acceptance , I'd suggest applying this attitude toward micro transactions and loot boxes rather than movement systems as it would have a far greater impact to everyone's overall gaming enjoyment .
Why not both? I'm good at multi-tasking: I can passionately dislike more than one thing.
I would suggest without knowing your particular fps gaming quirks outside of the fact your a mod on a halo forum who seems to champion the classic movement model over the enhanced movement one , I may be wrong but I don't think it's a crazy long stretch for one to assume what your fps gaming preferences are
As for cheese not tasting good ,,,,,,,,um ok that's just being plain weird
I'm one of the more prominent anti-sprint voices on this website. To your seeming surprise i also played CoD (stopped at BO2, might play new one) and also soldier 76 in overwatch. Big gears fan too which has roadie running, aside from that a quake, destiny & R6 fan too. S76 gets shut down by half the cast, CoD sprint gets punished, gears roadie running and wall banging synergise with the execution style of play and quakes movement is more full on than any advanced movement game.

Here is the key issue, halo has
- Compact maps with shorter line of sight
- A 2 weapon limit and map pick-ups
- A shield and slower kill times
- First to 50 kills and objective modes
Those things are Halo and those things are what do not synergise with sprint.

Take any game with sprint and name the conditions it has to keep it in line
CoD - insta kill times, punishes sprinting
Battlefield - quick kill times + vehicles
R6 - quick kill times + 1 life only
Gears - 1 life only, awkward movement
Overwatch - half the cast shuts it down
Titanfall - quick kill + mechs
Destiny - abilities & many quick kill options
What keeps sprint in check in Halo?..nothing
With advanced movement in Halo everything is subservient to it, that is unlike any other game with the mechanic, there is no counterbalance.

Movement pick-ups, movement tools in map design, movement with weapons, movement from map geometry and less blatantly rewarding movement off spawn is a better option for Halo. I would say like Overwatch but it felt like what Halo could/was move/ing toward in 3 & Reach, before 4 happened. Overwatch movement variety without it being class/hero based or off-spawn.
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Here is the key issue, halo has
- Compact maps with shorter line of sight
- A 2 weapon limit and map pick-ups
- A shield and slower kill times
- First to 50 kills and objective modes
Those things are Halo and those things are what do not synergise with sprint. TheCelticDragon
1. Warlock in H2 and Empire in H5. Both are decent maps. Similar sightlines. Both games have high paced movement. One with sprint. One without sprint. Define compact. Map designs shouldnt have an limitation based on arbitrary size. Good maps can be any size if it plays well. Halo 2 ascension? (the one with the banshee) is a big map with long sightlines but its super fun.
2. H5 has 2 weapons and power ups. H1, H2, H5 didn't have equipments.
3. Shield and slower kill times also present in h5. TTK for Halo utility weapons
H5 pistol - 1.2 sec
H3 Br - 1.3 sec
H2 Br - 1.4 sec
H1 pistol - 0.6 sec
If you're assertion is that sprint = low ttk = breaking halo signature, then the above stats are not reflective of your argument. In fact correlating sprint and ttk in itself is a VERY incomplete argument.
4. Slayer and obj game types are in H5 as well.

You seem to assert that the above points objectively dont work with sprint. Would like to know how that is.

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What keeps sprint in check in Halo?..nothing
You need to mention what perks/unfair advantages sprint provide that needs checking to provide a better counter-argument. You just mention that everything is subservient sprint.

Popular one is that you can escape. In Halo 5, non rechargeable shields keep you weak when you sprint. Even though you CAN escape, numbers advantage still exists for the opposite team. Also a good team can isolate and make you irrelevant and also use your position to keep track of spawns. An irrelevant player is much more detrimental than a dead player. Cuz when you die you're only off the map for 8 seconds and then respawn WITH your team. Whereas a player who escaped is not able to help his teammates/irrelevant for maybe longer than 8 seconds/can be cleaned through teamwork. So sprint is kept in check even though it's not very obvious (except for the non rechargeable shield)

But having said all that, any argument focusing on sprint ALONE is incomplete and pointless.. Unless you're talking about H4 or Reach that is....where sprint is a standalone mechanic that is not combo'd with any other ability there's no point in arguing about sprints effect on gameplay. Gameplay that is the consequence of more than just one element. Going back to "sprint helps your escape", I'd argue more "escapes" are due to the thruster rather than sprint (if you wanna break apart abilities and look at em individually), but sprint gets the bad rap. People tunnel vision on sprint and not consider the whole picture to make very skewed arguments.

The only valid criticism imo is the run n gun argument. Because that is a DIRECT consequence of SPRINT ALONE. There are no other contributing factors. I mean we're talking about TTK and sprint without even considering health, shield, gunplay. To decide the consequence of a single element, you need to predict its effect given all the other variables are constant.
I must say, I'm not a fan at ALL with these "combos" in Halo 5 when it comes to movement stuff. I have many issues with them, mainly,

  • These "combos" are not showed in game at all for the player to know. Not everybody wants to search the internet on how to do them.
  • A lot of these "combos" will only work with certain controller configurations and options. Definitely not right!
  • A lot of these combos definitely favor people with high end controllers. Again, that isn't right.
If I wanted "combos" I'd play a fighting game (which I do) I don't want them in my FPS and if they must be in, explain how to do them in game please. I got tired of hearing people complain about not knowing how to do them.

As far as movement being a skill in Halo 5.... I don't think it is. Pressing a button to sprint, clamber, slide etc isn't really skillful...let's be honest here lol whereas strafing and crouch strafing is much more, especially crouch strafing. Some of these movement "combos" definitely require some skill to pull off I won't deny that,but even still. I just really don't like them and feel they just ruin gameplay and like I said, If they have to be in the game tell the player how to do them or if we weren't meant to do those things aka It's a glitch, then patch the dam things already.

To me sprint evolved was what Halo 1-3 had. I can do anything and shoot at the same time. If you really want, you could still have sprint in the game and It's even activated with a button like how it is (Like how the original Doom did it back in the day, hold the shift button if I recall... LoL) Then they get ride of the sprint animation all together as it adds absolutely nothing.

That is probably the best compromise when it comes to sprint. Still two speeds in the game, but the animation is gone so the player can always shoot. If it were me I'd just have the base movement speed pushed up higher and have one speed but that's me.

I don't know, so much time is spent on trying to figure out how to make sprint balanced and Halo, when the The answer is right in front of us I think and that is to remove the animation. Done!! lol just my opinion 😉
Quote:
  • These "combos" are not showed in game at all for the player to know. Not everybody wants to search the internet on how to do them.
  • A lot of these "combos" will only work with certain controller configurations and options. Definitely not right!
  • A lot of these combos definitely favor people with high end controllers. Again, that isn't right.Dead End 24
I agree that H5 wasn't accessible to new players. It rewarded players who put in time learning the mechanics just to be decent at H5, which shouldn't be the case. It is DEFINITELY not a pick n play game. Both the skill ceiling and floor for H5 is high. Ideally you want a low skill floor and high skill ceiling.

And to be perfectly honest, I'm pretty sure that 343 devs and their pro team did not fully figure out how their mechanics could be chained either. They did have a basic understanding but they just put out a set of abilities and let community figure out its fullest potential. A lot of movement knowledge was shared through watching pro players or youtubers practicing in custom games. I played H5 since day 1 and I dont think I ever figured out any of the layered mechanics on my own.

Quote:
I don't know, so much time is spent on trying to figure out how to make sprint balanced and Halo, when the The answer is right in front of us I think and that is to remove the animation. Done!! lol just my opinion 😉
Yeah as long as there's a competitive edge (which is balanced) to use sprint in the game. I rather not have it in the game just to have it in the game.
I would suggest without knowing your particular fps gaming quirks outside of the fact your a mod on a halo forum who seems to champion the classic movement model over the enhanced movement one , I may be wrong but I don't think it's a crazy long stretch for one to assume what your fps gaming preferences are
I'd be curious to know what they are based on that amount of information. See, you may be assuming that because I want one thing from Halo, I want the same thing from all my games. It's an easy assumption to make about people, but doesn't really make sense when you think about it. Or do you spend your time just seeking of one game and hoping every game would be like that?

These "combos" are not showed in game at all for the player to know. Not everybody wants to search the internet on how to do them.
I'd say this is a somewhat unavoidable consequence of depth. There are very few kinds of depth in games have that players are likely to discover without ever needing to go outside the game to learn. It's essentially impossible to create a system that has any significant amount of depth, and for which the creator knows every single trick in it before it goes to the wider community.

With that said, I'm not going to pretend nothing can be done about it. I think games are at the point where online features can allow for some sort of perpetual tutorial system where things can be added as they are discovered. Abandoning a system because it turns out to have unforseen depth is definitely not the way to go.

if we weren't meant to do those things aka It's a glitch, then patch the dam things already.
Glitches should only be patched if they are harmful to the game. If they are not, and are interesting and fun, they should be promoted to features even if originally unintended. Whether a mechanic is intended or unintended shouldn't affect how it's treated.
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I'd say this is a somewhat unavoidable consequence of depth. There are very few kinds of depth in games have that players are likely to discover without ever needing to go outside the game to learn. It's essentially impossible to create a system that has any significant amount of depth, and for which the creator knows every single trick in it before it goes to the wider community.tsassi
This is true. 343 could've done better with H5 though. I mean the official account should have some guidance somewhere. More importantly, you need to have basic Halo arena knowledge. Once you learn these mechanics it's not a guarantee you'll be be better. It may lead you out to be out of position and getting killed more lol. So for a brand new player in H5, there are essentially 2 skill "hurdles". Movement and halo skill. Halo skill has always been there since CE but the addition of movement to that makes H5 even more inaccessible.

If I were 343, I would have put out a tutorial video with a disclaimer "Being good at mechanics alone won't guarantee you getting better."..or something (and turned comments off 😉).
Just give us classic H3 gameplay mechanics, it rewarded you for having gun skill and good in game positioning.
I actually think that Halo 5 did thrusters better than any other game and that it feels really good. I'd prefer a boosted FoV to a boost to actual movement speed. And I know I'll lose people here, but I really do like ground pound, clamber, and stabilize. Sprint and shoulder charge are the only Spartan Abilities I ever had an issue with.
I actually think that Halo 5 did thrusters better than any other game and that it feels really good. I'd prefer a boosted FoV to a boost to actual movement speed. And I know I'll lose people here, but I really do like ground pound, clamber, and stabilize. Sprint and shoulder charge are the only Spartan Abilities I ever had an issue with.
i do like sprint and don't mind clamber, and whilst i hate all the other movement systems implemented except for those two i just mentioned i do have to agree that H5 did boost better than the other halo games and i do agree that it actually feels good to use, but in my opinion it has no place in a halo game
I think they should revert to classic gameplay for base modes and multiplayer. But armor abilities and a dedicated mode for spartan abilities would be cool. I don’t know if it’s just me but I want them to bring back power ups from 3. Bubble shield, power drain, etc. They were only used once and they’re pretty cool
No sprint
Ok ok ok stop your input looks good, the fundamental aesthetic of running is knowing when to run. Long story short this community is so immature in debating I'm a singular perspective on this subject what 343 need to do is simple make a standalone multiplayer product cut it down the middle offer one group x and the other group y let the player base fund it via microtransactions or something close in mind. You want this you want that is going to make any head way in this forum.
I just want them to bring back Equipment, Armor Abilities (enhanced to include Halo 5's button combos), and Power-Ups. Basically Reach, but expanded and rebalanced. The community can figure out what to do with them over time. If sprint or any extra abilities are in by default, I think I'm going be done with buying Halo games. Why limit gameplay options by making us use tools we may not want to use?

I'd rather have the core gameplay for every mode to be inspired by Halo Reach's Team Hardcore playlist. No extra abilities, but AAs are available as Tier 3 (power weapon) pickups if you really need them to feel comfortable.
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