Doesn't this point also prove that if this is the case, then hit markers on grenades aren't necessary? People will do it regardless so rewarding them with a visual cue just for being lucky doesnt excuse the use of them. The fact is that hitmarkers on grenades isn't warranted. The idea of "flushing" an enemy out with a grenade would indicate that the player has knowledge of their movements and thus throws the grenade in such a way that the opposing player is FORCED to move into the tossers line of sight or in a way that is advantageous to the thrower/team. Rewarding dumb luck goes against rewarding good tactics/players/teams (which is what i believe defined Halo MP in the beginning). No doubt that if this is still in Infinite then players will use it to their advantage but generally speaking for every additive in the formula, there is also a drawback IE: sprint = shields dont recharge while doing so. There has to be or should be a balance within the game and with hitmarkers on grenades there is no such balance. Of course it could be argued that "if i use my grenade to locate enemies then I no longer have grenades to fight with"...this is a weak argument for its balance in comparison for the hitmarkers/the information they give and at that point your shields are down so the player could land 1 or 2 shots and take you out even if he misses 6-8 before the player can even get shots off down range.Deathstrokex12 wrote:How convenient that Halo CE isn’t built competitively now even tho back then it kicked off Esports on console...Delta5931 wrote:First off, using Halo CE as an example is a poor choice. That game is not designed to be played competitively. Now, I've bolded those parts because they're basically complete fabrications in the context of Halo 2 and Halo 3, as well as Reach. In all three of those games, which are designed to be played competitively, shield flares are obvious when you're hitting your target as well as when you're doing health damage (blood splatter). Shields will also noticeably drop and the enemy will be covered in what look like little bolts of lightning when shields drop. There's also an audible noise when shields are depleted in Halo 2, Halo 3 and Halo Reach that you can use at closer ranges to determine if shields are down. There's also flinching, that Halo 2, Halo 3 and Halo Reach all use when you're doing damage to the opponent regardless of shield strength. Using your eyes and ears to determine if you're doing damage is an important skill that hitmarkers mask as being unimportant. The same argument that no one complained about hitmarkers in those games can be applied to Halo. I would argue that no one really wanted hitmarkers until 343 started making Call of Halo and slapped them in with reckless abandon.C0BALT237 wrote:Delta5931 wrote:C0BALT237 wrote:For me, the one main thing I hated about the original games is the lack of hit and kill markers. they’re a necessity in all games at this point, not entirely sure why anyone could dislike them.
all they’d do is add to the game, why would you want them not in the game? It’s not like they change gameplay... at all...
Vehicles will noticeably have "dust" fly off of them and there's an audible noise when a vehicle is damaged past certain breakpoints. The idea that a new player would assume vehicles are invincible because they're using a weapon that's not designed to destroy vehicles (small arms) is laughable at best. I have never heard of this as a legitimate complaint from new players.
Now, for grenades. First, you can use your eyes to determine if your grenade has gone too far. Second, grenades will also make a noise when they explode as well as a slight visual disturbance when the grenade goes off. Third, the reason that hitmarkers being applied to grenades is something I'll criticize, is because they're being used less as "Flush out enemies" and more as "Are there enemies in there?" like a sort of sensor grenade. Someone else in this thread already pointed out that sticking out a grenade and staying around a corner lets you set up effective ambushes, even if the grenade does damage to you when there aren't hitmarkers. Hitmarkers also makes the motion tracker dramatically less important, because if the grenade detonates close enough to an opponent, you will see them on the motion tracker.
At distance, these cues that keep repeating don’t appear. At certain distances, shield flares don’t appear, the electricity doesn’t render, and flinch isn’t properly conveyed. “Dust appearing on a vehicle”, take a shot at any vehicle at range and tell me in all honesty if you can see much less hear anything coming from it. Noticeable dust disappears after 20m anything after that is hopeful dreaming.
In every halo there has been grenade spamming doesn’t matter if it’s a new player or a veteran. People have always chucked grenades around corners or down halls to check if someone is there, that isn’t an issue of hit markers. Again, unless you’re near the hallway, or corner, you won’t get a motion sensor trip, nor will you hear the sound of their shield bursting over the explosion of the grenade, it doesn’t matter how good of a player you are, unless you have wall hacks you are not getting any kind of indicator of wether your grenade hit or was wasted unless the person is sitting at the mouth of the hallway like a dip.
The more i read on the hitmarkers given different posts the more I think it should be a feature which you can enable/disable to the users preference however, they do not belong on grenades.