Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

How to make Maps feel more alive

OP DaekLaw

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TimeDipper wrote:
Mr Vacha wrote:
First they need to stop making "forge" maps and have more dev maps.
343 has not made a single forge map in matchmaking. So their Forge vs Dev map ratio is currently 100% Dev maps.
It sure does feel like "forge" type maps.
Mr Vacha wrote:
TimeDipper wrote:
Mr Vacha wrote:
First they need to stop making "forge" maps and have more dev maps.
343 has not made a single forge map in matchmaking. So their Forge vs Dev map ratio is currently 100% Dev maps.
It sure does feel like "forge" type maps.
It doesn't help when there are more forge maps than there are 343 maps. Btb is all forge, action sack, infection, the rotational modes all tend to use forge maps. Outside of warzone and half of team arena, forge maps outnumber 343s maps. I myself don't mind forge maps, they tend to play better than what 343 makes anyways.

Now if 343 gave forgers the tools 343 use, you'd see better asthetics (being a to not have things look as "blocky" as they do now and such as well as more colors to them) to the maps and forgers having a little more control on limiting exploits to the maps. Not something I'd ever see happening as I doubt 343 wants to give that much freedom to forgers.
Mr Vacha wrote:
TimeDipper wrote:
Mr Vacha wrote:
First they need to stop making "forge" maps and have more dev maps.
343 has not made a single forge map in matchmaking. So their Forge vs Dev map ratio is currently 100% Dev maps.
It sure does feel like "forge" type maps.
It doesn't help when there are more forge maps than there are 343 maps. Btb is all forge, action sack, infection, the rotational modes all tend to use forge maps. Outside of warzone and half of team arena, forge maps outnumber 343s maps. I myself don't mind forge maps, they tend to play better than what 343 makes anyways.

Now if 343 gave forgers the tools 343 use, you'd see better asthetics (being a to not have things look as "blocky" as they do now and such as well as more colors to them) to the maps and forgers having a little more control on limiting exploits to the maps. Not something I'd ever see happening as I doubt 343 wants to give that much freedom to forgers.
I doubt 343i would purposely hold back on the Forge features they provide us. It's about what's practical. Arguably, Forge is the best and most easily accessible map editor in any FPS, especially on a console (although the accessible part is a harder point to make since they changed the controls in Halo 5). It all comes down to what's practical with the technical limitations and where 343i need to focus their resources.
Mr Vacha wrote:
TimeDipper wrote:
Mr Vacha wrote:
First they need to stop making "forge" maps and have more dev maps.
343 has not made a single forge map in matchmaking. So their Forge vs Dev map ratio is currently 100% Dev maps.
It sure does feel like "forge" type maps.
It doesn't help when there are more forge maps than there are 343 maps. Btb is all forge, action sack, infection, the rotational modes all tend to use forge maps. Outside of warzone and half of team arena, forge maps outnumber 343s maps. I myself don't mind forge maps, they tend to play better than what 343 makes anyways.

Now if 343 gave forgers the tools 343 use, you'd see better asthetics (being a to not have things look as "blocky" as they do now and such as well as more colors to them) to the maps and forgers having a little more control on limiting exploits to the maps. Not something I'd ever see happening as I doubt 343 wants to give that much freedom to forgers.
I don't forge, but, if they gave us full control of the tools they use I would be making maps 24 / 7 Did you ever play Far Cry ? It's map maker was insane, give me forge like that any day.
I came across some interesting concepts a few days ago w. such elements and then remembered, that I already had opened this thread.

Someone has remade the libarys room w. the huge elevator in the center: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agfnNy053z0
Or Tartarus Boss-room: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdKgCMmrfQw

And then there was this one map in the H5-BTB Playlist called "Unearthed" with the huge crane in the center. Imagine that you would have to pull a lever to rotate this huge thing. Would it not add more depth into the map? (I know that it would not be possible to rotate a huge thing like this with some simple scripts, I'm just talking about the concept).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX5DSFwbta4

Maybe I'll find some more of these. Anyway, creativity is always appreciated.
DaekLaw wrote:
Well, my english is not the best, so prepare for a lot of mistakes, but I think you will still get my points or if you don't feel free to ask.
I don't want to dive to much into Map Layout / Artstyle, because that's not really what my post is about.

One of my complains for a long time now is that the maps feel so lifeless. In my opinion, most of the maps (dev. made) in the past few Halo Titles (Reach & onwards) are forgettable.
Well, the question is: How do we make maps recognizable again? How can we make them feel more alive?

The answer will be different for every individual, but in my opinion: These maps have to stand out, they need trademarks. I mean let's look at Zanzibar, Terminal etc. It's not about you or me liking / disliking these maps. Even if you've forgetten the name of this 2 particular maps. You'll most likely describe them in a way of : "Oh yeah, that one map with the wheel / train"

Not only that, but these things make the maps feel more alive and they open up some new movement-possibilities. The same goes for the conveyors on Elongation (H2), Elephants on Sandtrap (H3) and the elevator on Ivory Tower.
It doesn't have to be always something related to movement. Sometimes an announcer can do the job like they did in the Pit (H3).

One more thing Ive just remembered are the things you can activate to gain an advantage. Like the underground door on Standoff (you have to activate the lever in each base) or you can activate that one lever on Longshore to pull out the bridge. I'd like to see more interactions within the maps like this in Infinite.

The last thing would be something like breakable glass in some maps. Or at least I'd appreaciate if we'll able to forge them.

There's endless potenial and I think / hope that 343 will go all-out and try to be creative.
I think that was everything :D
I will breakdown why the last few Halo games have struggled on iconic maps:
Halo: ReachBungie at that time was moving on to being an independent studio and beginning work on Destiny. They did not invest a lot of time in Reach, resulting in Campaign reskins and a few unique maps.
Halo 4343 Industries was a relatively new company making a Halo game of which most of development went to making the game functional making most maps feel rushed.
Halo: 2AAt this point, the Blam! Engine was still being used in development for Halo of which Blam! is hard to work with on modern hardware like the Xbox One. Coupled with the smaller dev team resulted in only a few maps being remade, and not enough for people to consider it a complete multiplayer experience.
Halo 5Similar issues as Halo: 2A. It was such an obvious problem with the engine coupled with the campaign rewrite which led to several of the following:
  • Remixes of already designed maps for Halo 5 to be able to deliver enough maps at launch
  • BTB did not even come out at launch because they ran out of time to finish the game and had to get forge creators to complete the maps
  • A few Warzone maps of which most of the development time went to
For these reasons the SlipSpace Engine announcement was really an announcement that development of Halo: Infinite maps will be less about getting them to work, but rather getting them to feel well.
Something that made the Halo 3 maps so memorable was because of their mystery. I can't help but fell a sense of wonder and curiosity when walking around Sandtrap or Sandbox with the wind and sand passing by you, imagining what could be hidden. Halo 3 maps have the best atmosphere. Something that's just as important. The maps in this game have a unique atmosphere that you'll very rarely find in any other game, especially today.
The Halo 3 maps need to be an inspiration. Not in terms of level design or anything that would work the same as in an untextured mess when it comes to MP games, but exactly because of what I just said: they need a sense of wonder, a curious atmosphere and maybe some effects, like wind, passing through the player. On top of that, interactivity in it would add to the experience.
DaekLaw wrote:
Well, my english is not the best, so prepare for a lot of mistakes, but I think you will still get my points or if you don't feel free to ask.
I don't want to dive to much into Map Layout / Artstyle, because that's not really what my post is about.

One of my complains for a long time now is that the maps feel so lifeless. In my opinion, most of the maps (dev. made) in the past few Halo Titles (Reach & onwards) are forgettable.
Well, the question is: How do we make maps recognizable again? How can we make them feel more alive?

The answer will be different for every individual, but in my opinion: These maps have to stand out, they need trademarks. I mean let's look at Zanzibar, Terminal etc. It's not about you or me liking / disliking these maps. Even if you've forgetten the name of this 2 particular maps. You'll most likely describe them in a way of : "Oh yeah, that one map with the wheel / train"

Not only that, but these things make the maps feel more alive and they open up some new movement-possibilities. The same goes for the conveyors on Elongation (H2), Elephants on Sandtrap (H3) and the elevator on Ivory Tower.
It doesn't have to be always something related to movement. Sometimes an announcer can do the job like they did in the Pit (H3).

One more thing Ive just remembered are the things you can activate to gain an advantage. Like the underground door on Standoff (you have to activate the lever in each base) or you can activate that one lever on Longshore to pull out the bridge. I'd like to see more interactions within the maps like this in Infinite.

The last thing would be something like breakable glass in some maps. Or at least I'd appreaciate if we'll able to forge them.

There's endless potenial and I think / hope that 343 will go all-out and try to be creative.
I think that was everything :D
Hi most of this I also Agree with you we need maps that has a elevator in it for big team battle maps and Warzone and jump Bouncy, spread all over the map a big building that’s tall and has a elevator to get to the top and we need maps like halo reach map spire you went in a boost thing to get to the top maps like that but more buildings that are a lot bigger for Halo Infinite!!😃

I dont want forge made maps I want development maps

The people can create forge made maps on Forge World in forge people that are playing it in put it in a community playlist

Developers development maps at lunch for big team battle and Warzone and all other modes playlist and post lunch the community can make a separate playlist altogether after lunch of forge maps !! Also post lunch of new developers development maps not army forge pieces maps!!😃
Agreed 100%. Terminal was my absolute favourite map when I was a kid (and still is one of them). I think maps that aphease to Halo's lore, such as maybe one that takes place in a setting from a novel like Condemned, would also be very welcome.
Mr Vacha wrote:
First they need to stop making "forge" maps and have more dev maps.
Agreed. Some are fine, but it would be nice if they took community-made maps and gave them some dev-love
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