Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

[Locked] MOVE HALO FORWARD NOT BACKWARD!

OP D TheLastKing

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Keep Sprint and Clamber but remove Spartan Abilities.

I say make them armor abilities instead.
those are two of the possibly most game breaking abilities
For you Halo Reach is a broken game.
Not too far from the truth if you look at half the armor abilities being nerfed, and then how they were treated in the next game.

Evade was probably the only balanced armor ability. Everything else was either overpowered or underpowered.
I'd rather step back than run off a cliff
Perhaps a bit of both could work; have sprint and clamber for social gametypes, and neither for competitive gametypes. There, problem solved.
It doesn't matter, so long as there is forced cross-play with PC, console gamers will get smashed by PC in competitive.

Halo's MP is going to suck on console
I think that assuming that Halo 4/5 are Halo “moving forward” is the key weakness in your post. The next game (or any form of media for that matter) is not necessarily the correct next step, and is sometimes a step backwards. If anything Infinite is a step in the right direction.
Halo 4 did something different and went in the wrong direction mostly cause it tried to built on what reach did. Halo 5 is EXACTLY what you call moving forward and in the right direction. It stayed true to halos core while adding and doing things differently and it resulted in a more fleshed game with better mechanics. The thrusting abilities is up for debate but that's not what made halo 5 tho and they could be remove and it'll still play the same. Personally I feel like equipment should return and have trusters as an equipment pick up. And it runs out after X about of uses.
Halo 5 built on what Halo 4 brought to the table, given the backlash from Reach and Halo 4, it is still a mystery why 343 decided to continue down that path, it didn't end well for them. It absolutely was regressive, and most definitely not true to Halo's core. Halo's core is simple, tactical game play, something that just doesn't exist in Halo 5. As for Halo 5 playing the same without thrusters, well, that is laughable at best, the game was designed around the thrusters.
KayMrt wrote:
Re: Sprint - I don't really care one way or the other if it's in the game. I loved Halos 2 and 3, but I also love the speed of Halo 5. It changes the entire dynamic to be able to fly around the map and I think makes it a bit more competitive in that regard. After playing a lot of Halo 5, I can't really go back to MCC and play the old Halos because they feel way too slow. Halo being slow is something I had heard since Halo 3, but I never believed it until I played Halo 5. We can also keep sprint and tinker with the speed by elongating maps and making the respawn timer longer.

.
Yea, this isn't actually true since you only APPEAR to move faster in halo 5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCTyWf4EI7U

It's simply a case of your mind being tricked by an animation and map scale. This is why Halo 5 is truly the bottom of the barrel. All advanced movement abilities and sprint need to be removed from the game wholesale if Halo wants to recapture its old magic.
Taking away sprint and clamber IS moving forward.

Halo isn't meant to be like other sci-fi CoD rip-offs, it is its own thing.
Heyhou117 wrote:
I'm extremely agree with you OP, all this stupid nostalgia thing is scaring me
It's not just a basis of nostalgia. It's a basis of opinion.

Not everyone is going to be happy, but the majority really like this.
Outdated Armor design?! It's the marriage of Halo 3 and Halo Legends/Forward Unto Dawn designs and it looks friggin' phenomenal! It indicates a return to the classic art style from the original trilogy with a new spin. Everything in this trailer was amazing except for the rendered face on the hologram but that doesn't matter whatsoever as it got the point across.
I had a great idea. Bring back sprint... but only for campaign. Lol!

On a serious note, I don't want sprint to return, but we'll see.

As for clamber, I don't mind it, as long as maps are built without it in mind. It's a nice safety net for players that can't make jumps, but it should not be mandatory to clamber to reach somewhere when a crouch jump should suffice.
Nostalgia freak here. You know what.. I'll agree to this op, but to a degree.
It's true, things do need to move forward, and we shouldn't be stuck in the past. I've many at times when playing halo 3, went back to halo 2, and it wasn't the same.
And, sprinting does get you to a location faster. So less time moving through map is good.
Halo 2 had jump tutorials (not the super jumps) where people can do legit jumps to move through maps quicker. It was nice.
But, there is something lost with halo 5, the purity is gone.
It doesn't make sense to have master chief slide.. and then jump, and then thrust forward, which are all a halo 5 combo. As fun as it is to get around map (not actually certain however if the combo makes one move faster than just simple sprint), but yea as fun as it is, it doesn't help much to avoid getting killed, although the booster pack works many times. Halo's smooth fps engine, smooth jumps and weopon switchings and mechanics was always top notch, and I've had much pride playing it. But, it became a bit clunky after halo 4. It became clumpy, mind you it still have fluidity thanks to the engine, it just lost it's way a little. Became a bit too overcharged. Ultimately resulting in an experience that's too intense, too draining to keep moving around at that pace. I didn't like that it became COD-esque. What's next? wall runs and grapple hooks?

Too much customizations mean there is no core. They'll need to decide on a foundation.
Should it include sprint and then you take it away with select (minority gametypes)?
Should it go back to the old way and take it off entirely? and do it backwards? (with minority gametypes having sprint)
Something in the middle seems safe, but then would it be moving the series forward? can 343 afford to play it too safe for the last installation of halo? (ever ?)
hmm. Traditionally as a single halo game as aged, the increased gametypes have always gotten better and better. For example halo 2 achieved such peak ripe-ness just 6 months prior to halo 3. It was utter magic. Even as recent as halo 5, some good CTF game types options, very creative gametypes.

I don't care much to what option they choose, I think customizations can be added via gametypes, if not at launch then years later. But, the core needs to be steady.
They can't -Yoink- up the core. Halo is more of a party game fused with a competetive game. It's this immense fusion that is the gold standard of halo. It's so unique. So right. Just think about that for a sec. You can't have a purely competetive game on a console. That's for PC! games! Halo fit in SO well to consoles. It was competetive arena style combat game, and it was a party game! On top of all of that, it had the SMOOTHEST game engine, and movement mechanics, and shot acknowledgement, and balanced gametypes, and weopons, and vehicles, and a grand sense of All-Arounded-Ness. That's HALO !! It's WELL ROUNEDED. PUN PUN PUN !! COD is a cone head
gears if a -Yoink- head. Far cry is a long face. Halo.. is the most handsome game ever. Don't make it like the other special children.
Inovative spartan ability proposal:

Insted of sprint creating a "move or shoot" tradeof, i propose a version of sprint that creates a "speed vs. agility" tradeof:

- sprint doesn't lower your weapon
- sprint reduces lateral k´movement acceleration and aiming speed ( similar to ghost boost)
- if you fire your weapon you drop out of sprint (you can reenter at any time)
- if you stop sprinting you have residual momentum and need a few steps to slow down to normal aim/movement/ lateral speed ( this removes stoping sprint for an instant to zip around corners)

this version of sprint eliminates the problems with sprinting in halo and gives it a realistic sense of momentum ( because you need a few steps to slow down and can only make bigger turns). sprinting would mostly only be usefull in open uncontested map areas and not in firefights or indoors.

clamber should give the same jump hight advantage as crouch jumping. crouch jumping and clambering should stack. this way skilled players could more often substitute clambers with crouch jumps and the vertical stretching is reduced.

spartan charge can be removed. sprint melee could create knockback and give both players a little damage (plus the normal melee damage). this creates a risk/reward system.

hover needs to reduce your lateral momentum, so the jump distance benefit is reduced. a carefully timed hover may still give extra jump height.

slide can stay in

hitting a certain falling velocity should create the same effect as sprinting concerning melee momentum.thrusters can stay in. they create only little residual momentum. crouch-jump + thrust creates a downward thrust.
For me the most important mechanics to carry over into Halo Infinite's game-play will be the Smart-Link/Scope concept for the entire weapon sandbox and the Clamber mobility mechanic. I'm hoping they can make the clamber mechanic even better/smoother in Infinite. I will be extremely upset if these are not carried over to Infinite's game-play. After that it's the Sprint and Slide mechanics which were extremely well balanced within Halo 5. Personally, I really, REALLY want these mechanics to return; particularly, with the balance that Halo 5 had, but I know there's a vocal segment of the community who passionately don't want to see Sprint return so we'll see. Beyond that it then becomes the Boost/Thruster Pack mechanic feature, but with the classic look of the Master Chief's armor for Infinite it appears as if the Thruster Pack aspect may have been dropped. And depending on how they wanted to rework the Spartan Charge concept it too could make a re-appearance with a Sprint mechanic since it wouldn't necessarily require extra momentum from a Thruster Pack.

If the Thruster Pack aspect were to remain then we'd be looking at potentially keeping the Stabilize, Ground Pound, and the H5:Guardians-styled Spartan Charge mechanics from Halo 5. I've been of the opinion that the Stabilize (primarily) and Charge abilities made plenty of sense from an authentic and plausible perspective, but the Charge's effectiveness would need to be curbed noticeably from what existed in Halo 5. The Ground Pound mechanic I perceived as a good idea if viewed as an upgraded enhancement to the capabilities of the thruster pack and reserved for potential use in social environments and the campaign; in fact, I wouldn't mind seeing Stabilize (maybe), Ground Pound, Spartan Charge, + perhaps more offered up as performance armor mod equipment in the next iteration of Warzone. However, this all seems highly unlikely at this point based on what we've seen in the trailer.
smart link should only be there for unscoped weapons and should not increase accuracy, it should just zoom in the picture. zoomed weapons should have the classic zoom
Go check the polls in the polls section. The majority wants the old Halo back. Sprint and all the bells and whistles in 4 and 5 just made Halo feel more like COD and other FPS games. Halo should be different. A game can be new and "move forward" without conforming to what every other FPS does. People now days have this mentality that "moving forward" means to be like everybody else. But in reality it's the opposite, to be innovative you have to be DIFFERENT from everyone else. If every game was the same they would all be boring. And I know what you are thinking "omg the gameplay will be too slow" but that isn't true. In Halo 2 your character moves the same speed as a character in Halo 5 but doesn't have sprint. The easy fix is to bring back the faster base movement speed from the older games.
I think that assuming that Halo 4/5 are Halo “moving forward” is the key weakness in your post. The next game (or any form of media for that matter) is not necessarily the correct next step, and is sometimes a step backwards. If anything Infinite is a step in the right direction.
Halo 4 did something different and went in the wrong direction mostly cause it tried to built on what reach did. Halo 5 is EXACTLY what you call moving forward and in the right direction. It stayed true to halos core while adding and doing things differently and it resulted in a more fleshed game with better mechanics. The thrusting abilities is up for debate but that's not what made halo 5 tho and they could be remove and it'll still play the same.
Tell that to the sales of 4 and 5....
Halo 5 sold 5 million in 3 months. And idk if you knew this but XBO has sold as much as 360.
Yeah. 5 million means it ALMOST sold as much as CE which sol 5.5 million. Sales
Other than Battlefront, what real competition did Halo CE actually have?
Hm, let's see.
Halo CE was being released on an entirely new console people were somewhat unsure of as it was just that, entirely new.
Couple that with FPS games on consoles had not gained the high popularity it has enjoyed after CE, despite Perfect Dark Zero and Golden Eye being two popular FPS games.
Sony was already in on their Playstation 2 which had quite a few popular titles, and PC gaming was big, especially with fast paced FPS games such as Quake and UT.
So, Halo CE's "competition" was, predjudice against FPS games on consoles, an entirely different already established console with its own gaming library, and the PC market with its own large gaming library including already popular shooters.

It's akin to Apple releasing an iGame console today, with a game which is a shooter game that blows PS, PC and Xbox and their combined gaming libraries out of the water.
That game's competition isn't just which other game also may release on the iGame.
Smart-Link should only be there for unscoped weapons...
That's essentially the case in Halo 5.

The Smart-Link concept basically allows the classic zoom function and the layer of depth it provided to combat to be applied to all weapons within the sandbox. This provides the game added depth as all weapons are now afforded two effective ranges, between Hip-Fire vs Smart-Linked, which is directly impacted by the descope combat mechanic. The Smart-Link concept also brings a type of Aim-Down-Sight (ADS) animation to many weapons which in turn brings a slight visual magnification for those without scopes. Worth mentioning that the animation is so short for some scoped weapons that it's essentially non-existent.

Some weapons have their own unique default sight and sometimes there's even a variation that's offered for it. These sights may not always have a particular reference title, but they're typically referred to as Projection Sights. Many weapons will simply have a Recon Sight, a Hybrid Sight, or a Morph Sight.
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...and should not increase accuracy, it should just zoom in the picture.
Disagree 100% that it should "just" magnify the view.

But, I'm not suggesting the accuracy improvements needs to be something dramatic like in most other FPS titles.

Again, what I'd like to see is pretty much what we got with Halo 5, but I preferred the more apparent accuracy improvement depth that was available prior to the "Overtime" weapon tuning. Things like crouch-firing with the BR lessening the recoil just a tiny bit more would be nice as it adds just a little extra depth to the gun-play. Similarly, I'd like to see Smart-Linking the AR and SMG tighten the max cone-of-fire by just a tiny amount and crouch-firing them slightly reduce the amount of potential recoil drift when being fired under extensive full auto. Those types of minor improvements existed prior to the weapon tuning and I wish they had been kept even if they were fairly miniscule improvements because they add an extra layer of depth to the combat experience.
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Zoomed weapons should have the classic zoom.
So, in your opinion, the only available scopes should be the classic ones or are you suggesting that all scoped weapons should have the ADS animation made so short that it's essentially eliminated?

I prefer having options that add more depth to the sandbox and give people some selective options based on their preference. I liked that we have the Classic Scope, the Longshot Scope, the COG Scope, and the Sentinel Scope. Plus, from a personal perspective I don't have an issue with ADS-style animations for scoped weapons as long as they remain fairly short and quickly responsive.
Bringing back classic Halo isn't moving "backwards" any more than Halo 5 was going "forwards." Game design doesn't have a linear progression where things become arbitrarily out of date. Game design constantly branches out in all directions starting, stopping, and rejoining each other all the time. A particular mechanic being popular and even ubiquitous doesn't make it a good fit for every game and franchise.

Your opinions and preferences are not made any more appealing by pretending they are a reasonable embrace of "the future" while portraying your detractors as nostalgia blind fanboys.

I must say all this recent panic brought on by just the art style change among those who liked 343's earlier direction is a delicious bit of schadenfreude. Like forget even playing a hypothetical classic Halo without sprint or clamber, just the reaction from those who spent all these years telling others that they are stuck in the past or whatever would be worth it all on its own.
If the modern DOOM series can work without sprint, so can Halo. Not all FPS need to have sprint.
eLantern wrote:
Quote:
Zoomed weapons should have the classic zoom.
So, in your opinion, the only available scopes should be the classic ones or are you suggesting that all scoped weapons should have the ADS animation made so short that it's essentially eliminated?

I prefer having options that add more depth to the sandbox and give people some selective options based on their preference. I liked that we have the Classic Scope, the Longshot Scope, the COG Scope, and the Sentinel Scope. Plus, from a personal perspective I don't have an issue with ADS-style animations for scoped weapons as long as they remain short and quickly responsive.
i prefer the classic scope when ever possible
Some of us want sprint out of the game, and the players who want to keep it are misunderstanding those of us from the "no-sprint" camp. You guys seem to think that we want sprint gone because simply classic Halo didn't have sprint. That conclusion isn't entirely unreasonable, what with all the remasters and waves of nostalgia we've seen in gaming recently. However, this conclusion is ultimately wrong. We want Halo without sprint because for being such a simple thing, it actually shakes up gameplay quite a bit.

Sprint forces players to choose between moving at maximum speed and having their gun ready. You can run for the overshield or sword or whatever goodies you want to grab first, but you might be caught off guard, and be put at a major disadvantage because you can't shoot right away. This wasn't an issue in classic Halo. You were always able to shoot your gun no matter how fast you're moving.

There's also the fact that maps are stretched out to compensate for the fact that players can sprint, which ironically ends up slowing down gameplay. And all of this is demonstrated by this GIF, which compares Halo 3 to Halo 5 with and without sprint in the map Midship.

But I will say that I really enjoy having clamber and I'd like to keep that.
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