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Playing as a marine in campaign

OP Philmagill P117

It would be interesting to see one mission in Halo Infinite, where you get to play as a marine, or marine squadron leader, like Sgt. Johnson. The closest we've had is playing as an ODST. But it would be a cool side story mission, to contrast the power and importance of Master Chief. You would begin on board a space ship, lined up and being ordered around, then a pelican would deploy you and your team, your character could even have a close friend, who may end up dying in the future. Anwway, your Pelican along with 10 other pelicans in formation would enter a planet's atmosphere and be violently dropped in the battlefield against whatever enemy.
It would be interesting to see one mission in Halo Infinite, where you get to play as a marine, or marine squadron leader, like Sgt. Johnson. The closest we've had is playing as an ODST. But it would be a cool side story mission, to contrast the power and importance of Master Chief. You would begin on board a space ship, lined up and being ordered around, then a pelican would deploy you and your team, your character could even have a close friend, who may end up dying in the future. Anwway, your Pelican along with 10 other pelicans in formation would enter a planet's atmosphere and be violently dropped in the battlefield against whatever enemy.
This idea reminds me of Paul Jackson in Modern Warfare, and that was a great presentation, but unfortunately, the community is very sided on only having the master chief and any returning characters as a playable character in the campaign. People want the chief, and that's likely what 343 will do.
I don't mind games like CoD and MoH, but if I wanted to play as an ordinary soldier, there's plenty on the marketplace to pick from.

I'm convinced Bungie's decision to put players into the shoes of weaker soldiers contributed to Halo's decline and the encroachment of CoD elements. Wasn't just due to the intro of equipment/armor abilities/loadouts and bad MP balancing issues. H3 SP suffered due to changes specifically geared towards MP: BR/Carbine spread, reload/melee speed, slowed down Banshees which are hardly viable for combat (problem extends to H4/H5, sans ODST/Reach ironically), less ammo for AR, scopeless magnum that fired at a snail's pace, halved nade count (ODST was odd with the 3x nade count and the weird nade toss angle), etc.

Spartan IIIs/IVs/ODSTs (and even Chief in H4, despite his faster shield recharge rate. No input on H5 Chief since I haven't played it. Seems like it was an improvement?) felt like a total downgrade in their responsiveness. Even Easy difficulty could get unbearable due to the increased damage/reduced health. I thought the whole point of Halo from H2 onward was about playing as a supersoldier in a blockbuster cinematic experience. They sure took the "super" out with ODST/Reach.

Before even considering having a marine in the spotlight, the Halo series would have to first put out a solid and decent spin-off fps game. At best, they could commit to your proposal as DLC, a game mode, a cinematic, etc. But it'd be otherwise taking their time/attention off of the main games at a time when Halo is in a rut.
I don't mind games like CoD and MoH, but if I wanted to play as an ordinary soldier, there's plenty on the marketplace to pick from.

I'm convinced Bungie's decision to put players into the shoes of weaker soldiers contributed to Halo's decline and the encroachment of CoD elements. Wasn't just due to the intro of equipment/armor abilities/loadouts and bad MP balancing issues. H3 SP suffered due to changes specifically geared towards MP: BR/Carbine spread, reload/melee speed, slowed down Banshees which are hardly viable for combat (problem extends to H4/H5, sans ODST/Reach ironically), less ammo for AR, scopeless magnum that fired at a snail's pace, halved nade count (ODST was odd with the 3x nade count and the weird nade toss angle), etc.

Spartan IIIs/IVs/ODSTs (and even Chief in H4, despite his faster shield recharge rate. No input on H5 Chief since I haven't played it. Seems like it was an improvement?) felt like a total downgrade in their responsiveness. Even Easy difficulty could get unbearable due to the increased damage/reduced health. I thought the whole point of Halo from H2 onward was about playing as a supersoldier in a blockbuster cinematic experience. They sure took the "super" out with ODST/Reach.
OK ,
In O.D.S.T. , you clearly played as an O.D.S.T. , Orbital Drop Shock Trooper , not Spartans , hence why you didn't feel powerful. Think about it , if O.D.S.T.s can throw a nade like a Spartan , move , jump and shoot like a Spartan , why do we need Spartans? (I know a simplistic argument , but you know if Bungie hadn't made it feel different there would be people complaining that O.D.S.T.s played too much like Chief , "and that's not canon")
In Reach , although you were playing a Spartan , it was a less augmented Spartan III but still wearing a Mjolnir variant ; but facing overwhelming numbers. The whole point of Reach was to feel hopeless and overwhelmed. That's what the Battle of Reach was for our side.

All that said , I agree with you. I think playing as Joe Schmoe for a level or two would take time and resources away , and let's be honest , they really need to knock this one out of the park.
I just want to play Halo, this implies playing as a Spartan, I just want to play as Chief to be honest.
Sunsdune wrote:
In O.D.S.T. , you clearly played as an O.D.S.T. , Orbital Drop Shock Trooper , not Spartans , hence why you didn't feel powerful. Think about it , if O.D.S.T.s can throw a nade like a Spartan , move , jump and shoot like a Spartan , why do we need Spartans? (I know a simplistic argument , but you know if Bungie hadn't made it feel different there would be people complaining that O.D.S.T.s played too much like Chief , "and that's not canon")In Reach , although you were playing a Spartan , it was a less augmented Spartan III but still wearing a Mjolnir variant ; but facing overwhelming numbers. The whole point of Reach was to feel hopeless and overwhelmed. That's what the Battle of Reach was for our side.

All that said , I agree with you. I think playing as Joe Schmoe for a level or two would take time and resources away , and let's be honest , they really need to knock this one out of the park.
Well those complaints about ODSTs wielding turrets, boarding and flipping vehicles, etc. still sprung up nonetheless. These were bound to happen. They ought to have focused more on the gameplay elements, such as featuring actual silenced weapons and giving marines normal magnum variants instead of silenced guns (I understand it was for the purpose of making ammo available for players). Immersion doesn't have to be player focused to be immersive. Just pay attention to the little things surrounding the player.

I guess you have a point about Reach. At least the Elites were fast and strafing again, but they still felt like bullet sponges.

I couldn't have put that any better myself.
I would much rather have a spin-off title where the game could better focus on the point of view of a regular marine while also not wasting new or rather, different gameplay mechanics on mere short section.
So yay for a Marine point of view game, nay for short section as a Marine in Infinite.
I would rather a mainline Halo title focus on the main characters such as...The Chief.
Couldn't be done. If you were playing as Chief one mission, and then a Marine the next, the Marine would be as good as The Master Chief - a Spartan II. It was fine for ODST, because you exclusively played as ODSTs. You could suspend disbelief, and ignore the similarities between the gameplay. It was coherent. It was relative. But playing as both in the same game? You'd have to make the Marine one-shot on Easy Difficulty.

However, we could see events through the eyes of a Marine via their camera, as we did in Halo CE, in the level '343 Guilty Spark'.
I would love to have other playable species again. In halo two I loved playing as the Arbiter. I think it would be really cool if they had a multiplayer game mode where you could be all types of different species, there could be a human covenant/banished, and flood teams. Humans would just have different classes, marine, medic, Spartan, ODST, etc. covenant side would have jackals, elites, brutes, grunts, hunters, buggers, etc. the flood would have all the different forms such as infection forms, combat forms, etc. then the forerunner side would have the different prometheans, the didact, etc. each class/species would have their own strengths, weaknesses, and abilities (kinda like plants vs zombies garden warfare).
I feel like this would be kinda cool and interesting, what do you guys think?
I would rather see playable ODST because they are marines. Physiologically there is no difference between an ODST from any other human unlike Spartans which has those physical augments which separates them from the rest of humanity. But being playing as a Marine would not be as interesting because of all the mundane stuff that you would be relegated to do (que the first strip of One One Se7en). I mean when playing say a business management sim would you rather play as a manager or as the secretary?

Playable ODSTs yes but playable Marines? You might as well play as a Traxus construction worker from Halo 3. No need to play as a basic grunt, the ODST would be far better and would have access to a much wider array of equipment and resources (like Drop Pods) than your standard Marine.
I would rather see playable ODST because they are marines. Physiologically there is no difference between an ODST from any other human unlike Spartans which has those physical augments which separates them from the rest of humanity. But being playing as a Marine would not be as interesting because of all the mundane stuff that you would be relegated to do (que the first strip of One One Se7en). I mean when playing say a business management sim would you rather play as a manager or as the secretary?

Playable ODSTs yes but playable Marines? You might as well play as a Traxus construction worker from Halo 3. No need to play as a basic grunt, the ODST would be far better and would have access to a much wider array of equipment and resources (like Drop Pods) than your standard Marine.
ODST could definitely be overall more interesting, it's just something we have seen already before in the series.
Obviously im hoping for another ODST focused game in the future as a bit of change of pace but Marine focused game could be interesting change of perspective too.

Sure Marines have to occasionally do some mundane stuff but we would not be living as Marines, we would be playing as Marines and games can cut the uninteresting feces and focus the gameplay on more interesting stuff like battles & perhaps some sneaking around.

But I can also see wanting to draw line somewhere with how much equipment or access a character has, even ODST was downgrade from SPARTAN in the equipment scale but previously it was compensated a bit in gameplay & variables were added by having multiple playable characters with different specializations.
As example the melee seemed way too powerful for ODST, killing a brute by hitting it on back, just like SPARTAN? Absolutely unbelievable but it was simple compromise for gameplays sake.
As such equipment gap could be compensated by having multiple playable characters and perhaps having the main (Rookie type) character ranking up when the story goes on with perhaps having the tutorial as recruit/private and ending up as something like captain alongside of perhaps gaining specialization.

And as to what perspective a Marine could bring to the story? A story about surviving the war against more technologically advanced foes without some fancy power armor with their shields or enemy highlighting visor, no glorified hero, just a human being doing their work in the shadows of others.
And it could be a game where there would be more than usual marine chatter.

"Dear Humanity...we regret being alien ********. We regret coming to Earth."
"And we most definitely regret that the Corps just blew up our raggedy-*** fleet!"
"Oo-rah!"
Interesting idea. I like the concept of showing you how powerful a Spartan is by comparing them to playing with a marine, I would only want the mission to be long enough to show you that contrast though.
I would rather see playable ODST because they are marines. Physiologically there is no difference between an ODST from any other human unlike Spartans which has those physical augments which separates them from the rest of humanity. But being playing as a Marine would not be as interesting because of all the mundane stuff that you would be relegated to do (que the first strip of One One Se7en). I mean when playing say a business management sim would you rather play as a manager or as the secretary?

Playable ODSTs yes but playable Marines? You might as well play as a Traxus construction worker from Halo 3. No need to play as a basic grunt, the ODST would be far better and would have access to a much wider array of equipment and resources (like Drop Pods) than your standard Marine.
ODST could definitely be overall more interesting, it's just something we have seen already before in the series.
Obviously im hoping for another ODST focused game in the future as a bit of change of pace but Marine focused game could be interesting change of perspective too.

Sure Marines have to occasionally do some mundane stuff but we would not be living as Marines, we would be playing as Marines and games can cut the uninteresting feces and focus the gameplay on more interesting stuff like battles & perhaps some sneaking around.

But I can also see wanting to draw line somewhere with how much equipment or access a character has, even ODST was downgrade from SPARTAN in the equipment scale but previously it was compensated a bit in gameplay & variables were added by having multiple playable characters with different specializations.
As example the melee seemed way too powerful for ODST, killing a brute by hitting it on back, just like SPARTAN? Absolutely unbelievable but it was simple compromise for gameplays sake.
As such equipment gap could be compensated by having multiple playable characters and perhaps having the main (Rookie type) character ranking up when the story goes on with perhaps having the tutorial as recruit/private and ending up as something like captain alongside of perhaps gaining specialization.

And as to what perspective a Marine could bring to the story? A story about surviving the war against more technologically advanced foes without some fancy power armor with their shields or enemy highlighting visor, no glorified hero, just a human being doing their work in the shadows of others.
And it could be a game where there would be more than usual marine chatter.

"Dear Humanity...we regret being alien ********. We regret coming to Earth."
"And we most definitely regret that the Corps just blew up our raggedy-*** fleet!"
"Oo-rah!"
Interesting idea. I like the concept of showing you how powerful a Spartan is by comparing them to playing with a marine, I would only want the mission to be long enough to show you that contrast though.
Now you two, are catching my drift. 😎 Fully Skully you especially highlighted my most important point.
I would rather see playable ODST because they are marines. Physiologically there is no difference between an ODST from any other human unlike Spartans which has those physical augments which separates them from the rest of humanity. But being playing as a Marine would not be as interesting because of all the mundane stuff that you would be relegated to do (que the first strip of One One Se7en). I mean when playing say a business management sim would you rather play as a manager or as the secretary?

Playable ODSTs yes but playable Marines? You might as well play as a Traxus construction worker from Halo 3. No need to play as a basic grunt, the ODST would be far better and would have access to a much wider array of equipment and resources (like Drop Pods) than your standard Marine.
ODST could definitely be overall more interesting, it's just something we have seen already before in the series.
Obviously im hoping for another ODST focused game in the future as a bit of change of pace but Marine focused game could be interesting change of perspective too.

Sure Marines have to occasionally do some mundane stuff but we would not be living as Marines, we would be playing as Marines and games can cut the uninteresting feces and focus the gameplay on more interesting stuff like battles & perhaps some sneaking around.

But I can also see wanting to draw line somewhere with how much equipment or access a character has, even ODST was downgrade from SPARTAN in the equipment scale but previously it was compensated a bit in gameplay & variables were added by having multiple playable characters with different specializations.
As example the melee seemed way too powerful for ODST, killing a brute by hitting it on back, just like SPARTAN? Absolutely unbelievable but it was simple compromise for gameplays sake.
As such equipment gap could be compensated by having multiple playable characters and perhaps having the main (Rookie type) character ranking up when the story goes on with perhaps having the tutorial as recruit/private and ending up as something like captain alongside of perhaps gaining specialization.

And as to what perspective a Marine could bring to the story? A story about surviving the war against more technologically advanced foes without some fancy power armor with their shields or enemy highlighting visor, no glorified hero, just a human being doing their work in the shadows of others.
And it could be a game where there would be more than usual marine chatter.

"Dear Humanity...we regret being alien ********. We regret coming to Earth."
"And we most definitely regret that the Corps just blew up our raggedy-*** fleet!"
"Oo-rah!"
Oh I agree when I played Halo ODST it was easy to forget that you were not a Spartan because of such similar systems like Stamina which acted just like shields (even though it was a bit weaker). But as I said ODST are Marines, If you play as an ODST you are playing as a Marine. Now the thing is ODSTs still have to start somewhere and that somewhere is a Marine.
The only compromise where I could see playing as a Marine is the tutorial level for the ODST where you are going through indoc/selection/hellweek and thus your status is still Marine as you haven't earned the title ODST yet. There you played as an average Marine, sure it was only a training mission but hey you weren't an ODST.

Another thing you got to think about is the mechanics. Right now the mechanics for all NPCs is the basic abstraction of a number of hit point, with different regeneration values. Stronger NPCs tend to have higher values and weaker ones have lower values. Simply putting those values as your player character would be boring, the two part health system goes a long way to keeping the game interesting and demands more reaction to the tactical situation (even if one of those was hidden). Also Sgt Johnson was an ODST (not a spartan for those who swear upon what fanfic novel they read).

Still I would say playable ODST would be more suitable. If you are going to pick a playable human you might as well go for the top of the line (not command). You wouldn't want to play as those red shoulder Master At Arms from the Pillar of Autumn? Playing as a basic Marines would be no different. However with playable ODSTs you could make cosmetics and armor sets that look as close to a basic armored marine (without having to expose the face that much). Look like a halo marine, play not like a halo spartan, might as well be called a halo marine.
I would rather see playable ODST because they are marines. Physiologically there is no difference between an ODST from any other human unlike Spartans which has those physical augments which separates them from the rest of humanity. But being playing as a Marine would not be as interesting because of all the mundane stuff that you would be relegated to do (que the first strip of One One Se7en). I mean when playing say a business management sim would you rather play as a manager or as the secretary?

Playable ODSTs yes but playable Marines? You might as well play as a Traxus construction worker from Halo 3. No need to play as a basic grunt, the ODST would be far better and would have access to a much wider array of equipment and resources (like Drop Pods) than your standard Marine.
ODST could definitely be overall more interesting, it's just something we have seen already before in the series.
Obviously im hoping for another ODST focused game in the future as a bit of change of pace but Marine focused game could be interesting change of perspective too.

Sure Marines have to occasionally do some mundane stuff but we would not be living as Marines, we would be playing as Marines and games can cut the uninteresting feces and focus the gameplay on more interesting stuff like battles & perhaps some sneaking around.

But I can also see wanting to draw line somewhere with how much equipment or access a character has, even ODST was downgrade from SPARTAN in the equipment scale but previously it was compensated a bit in gameplay & variables were added by having multiple playable characters with different specializations.
As example the melee seemed way too powerful for ODST, killing a brute by hitting it on back, just like SPARTAN? Absolutely unbelievable but it was simple compromise for gameplays sake.
As such equipment gap could be compensated by having multiple playable characters and perhaps having the main (Rookie type) character ranking up when the story goes on with perhaps having the tutorial as recruit/private and ending up as something like captain alongside of perhaps gaining specialization.

And as to what perspective a Marine could bring to the story? A story about surviving the war against more technologically advanced foes without some fancy power armor with their shields or enemy highlighting visor, no glorified hero, just a human being doing their work in the shadows of others.
And it could be a game where there would be more than usual marine chatter.

"Dear Humanity...we regret being alien ********. We regret coming to Earth."
"And we most definitely regret that the Corps just blew up our raggedy-*** fleet!"
"Oo-rah!"
Oh I agree when I played Halo ODST it was easy to forget that you were not a Spartan because of such similar systems like Stamina which acted just like shields (even though it was a bit weaker). But as I said ODST are Marines, If you play as an ODST you are playing as a Marine. Now the thing is ODSTs still have to start somewhere and that somewhere is a Marine.
The only compromise where I could see playing as a Marine is the tutorial level for the ODST where you are going through indoc/selection/hellweek and thus your status is still Marine as you haven't earned the title ODST yet. There you played as an average Marine, sure it was only a training mission but hey you weren't an ODST.

Another thing you got to think about is the mechanics. Right now the mechanics for all NPCs is the basic abstraction of a number of hit point, with different regeneration values. Stronger NPCs tend to have higher values and weaker ones have lower values. Simply putting those values as your player character would be boring, the two part health system goes a long way to keeping the game interesting and demands more reaction to the tactical situation (even if one of those was hidden). Also Sgt Johnson was an ODST (not a spartan for those who swear upon what fanfic novel they read).

Still I would say playable ODST would be more suitable. If you are going to pick a playable human you might as well go for the top of the line (not command). You wouldn't want to play as those red shoulder Master At Arms from the Pillar of Autumn? Playing as a basic Marines would be no different. However with playable ODSTs you could make cosmetics and armor sets that look as close to a basic armored marine (without having to expose the face that much). Look like a halo marine, play not like a halo spartan, might as well be called a halo marine.
I dont really get what you are trying to convince with that, literally in the first line of my response to the original comment I state that "ODST could definitely be overall more interesting" while the rest is largely that a Marine based game could have it's interesting plot points & that some, let's say adjustments, could be made to gameplay. Much like before, hence the reference to punching strength in Halo 3: ODST.

But if you dont see anything interesting to playing as human(s) surviving & fighting threats to humanity while also having access to military equipment then we can agree to disagree on this case.

And I wouldn't be mad at that if there were to be a game where you, at some point, turn out to become an ODST, kind of implied such possibility with the character gaining "specialization" which still leaves room for other types of specializations.

And this is about marines, not spaceship staff on their computers. Bit of exaggeration in my opinion.

And speaking of customization, I could be fine with both, ODST or Marine. Maybe ODST one could be a bit expanded for it was sort of disappointment in Halo 3: ODST, more customization points for that. Though if there could be customizeable face then Marine could have a helmet + visible face as option alongside of the armor for those that prefer it that way.

And there is such thing as ORION project which Johnson was part of, I think it was mentioned in contact harvest at least though im not sure what you think of as fan-fiction. Definitely a supersoldier program of sorts but I dont remember if it has ever been referred as SPARTAN I officially.
Though I dont remember Johnson being referred as ODST either, could you mention some source as refresment for my memory? He has definitely gone through HEV drop training but I just dont remember ODST bit.

And if I would always want to play as top of the line in the battlefield, I would be for playing as SPARTAN constantly with their abilities, mission variety and access to equipment but occasionally, a change of pace is somewhat refreshing.

With new circumstances new plot types appear.
I would rather see playable ODST because they are marines. Physiologically there is no difference between an ODST from any other human unlike Spartans which has those physical augments which separates them from the rest of humanity. But being playing as a Marine would not be as interesting because of all the mundane stuff that you would be relegated to do (que the first strip of One One Se7en). I mean when playing say a business management sim would you rather play as a manager or as the secretary?

Playable ODSTs yes but playable Marines? You might as well play as a Traxus construction worker from Halo 3. No need to play as a basic grunt, the ODST would be far better and would have access to a much wider array of equipment and resources (like Drop Pods) than your standard Marine.
And there is such thing as ORION project which Johnson was part of, I think it was mentioned in contact harvest at least though im not sure what you think of as fan-fiction. Definitely a supersoldier program of sorts but I dont remember if it has ever been referred as SPARTAN I officially.
This is the most factually accurate information we have regarding Johnson and the ORION program. Definitely a precursor to the Spartan II program , definitely not O.D.S.T..
If Johnson was a Hell-jumper , why would the very first thing he says to Chief be "Crazy fool , why do you always jump!?"? Would a hell-jumper honestly ask this question?
It would be interesting to see one mission in Halo Infinite, where you get to play as a marine, or marine squadron leader, like Sgt. Johnson. The closest we've had is playing as an ODST. But it would be a cool side story mission, to contrast the power and importance of Master Chief. You would begin on board a space ship, lined up and being ordered around, then a pelican would deploy you and your team, your character could even have a close friend, who may end up dying in the future. Anwway, your Pelican along with 10 other pelicans in formation would enter a planet's atmosphere and be violently dropped in the battlefield against whatever enemy.
Would be good to see this type of thing happen again with a Halo game they obviously brought out H3 ODST but that was playing as an ODST not a Marine. But having the option to play a side mission in a future Halo game as an Marine would be pretty cool. You could then see what it must be like being a Marine.