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"Positive: Friend or Foe Outlines" not so sure...

OP Toxhicide

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Most people on the forums, especially if you paid attention to the like ratios, did not seem to think this was positive. At the very least this was controversial... you sure you aren't tooting your own ideological horn by saying this had a positive response? There were PLENTY asking to make it go away. Even now, about 10 threads below this one, there is a topic full of replies that lament this decision. Ridiculous to say that it was positive then go on to reinforce the ideology behind adding it and then blame it on color blindness.
Best part is that there were a few threads during the flight by color blind people that said the system wasnt as helpful as red and blue, wish they would just let you have RvB as an option.
Best part is that there were a few threads during the flight by color blind people that said the system wasnt as helpful as red and blue, wish they would just let you have RvB as an option.
This seems false, point me to these threads where colorblind people said this
mike2k132 wrote:
Best part is that there were a few threads during the flight by color blind people that said the system wasnt as helpful as red and blue, wish they would just let you have RvB as an option.
This seems false, point me to these threads where colorblind people said this
  1. here is one
  2. here is another
  3. here is a guy saying he found a color that works "alright" but would rather outlines not be there
took all of two seconds to search "outline colorblind", the outline system is intended to sell microtransactions and is using the color blind reason as an excuse. there are so many more ways they could have done this to help color blind people without getting rid of team colors

from what i have seen (note i am not color blind so this may be false when it comes to how color blind colors change) the reason why red vs blue is nice is because "Yellow-blue colourblind people see RvB as Red vs Cyan. Green-red colourblind people see RvB as Gold vs Blue. Only people with monochromatic blindness (full colourblindness) can't see RvB at all" so no matter what there was still a difference and for monochromatic folks they could have made a "heightened contrast" mode where it lets them change how dark and light the team colors were.

also the argument that "it lets me show off my spartan" makes no sense because no one is going to look at your coating, they will see outline shoot till dead and move on. no one wants the be the dude that costed his team the game because he was staring at dead bodies all match. they will wait till after or before match lobby where your colors would have been on display anyways..
There's a lot of approaches you could take to solving the color blind issue and maintain consistent coloring to.

For example, you could always keep the player's team one color, and the enemy the other. Halo supports a range of team colors other than RvB anyway, and you could even let people choose what colors they want friend or foe to wear.

But nah, this is so you feel more incentivized to buy colors cause they're monitized now....even though the game still makes you just care about the color anyway.
I must be one of the few who didn't mind it.
Quote:
also the argument that "it lets me show off my spartan" makes no sense because no one is going to look at your coating, they will see outline shoot till dead and move on. no one wants the be the dude that costed his team the game because he was staring at dead bodies all match. they will wait till after or before match lobby where your colors would have been on display anyways..
1.^) I know what you mean, during the flight i was thinking the same.

Quote:
took all of two seconds to search "outline colorblind", the outline system is intended to sell microtransactions and is using the color blind reason as an excuse. there are so many more ways they could have done this to help color blind people without getting rid of team colors

from what i have seen (note i am not color blind so this may be false when it comes to how color blind colors change) the reason why red vs blue is nice is because "Yellow-blue colourblind people see RvB as Red vs Cyan. Green-red colourblind people see RvB as Gold vs Blue. Only people with monochromatic blindness (full colourblindness) can't see RvB at all" so no matter what there was still a difference and for monochromatic folks they could have made a "heightened contrast" mode where it lets them change how dark and light the team colors were.
2.^) Wow, this is really worrying. I like how open 343i are about the whole development and how they consider feedback from the Community (sadly, not many devs do that) but if they harm the colorblind people more than they help them... i would really hate this fact :/
Honestly, it feels to me like they just over thought it. Is there any good reason why just having friendly indicators over teammates heads wouldn’t work? Color wouldn’t even factor in at that point and people could still have their Spartan look however they wanted. If there’s an icon over them don’t shoot, if not then blast away.

The only downside I can think of is if a friendly is literally directly behind an enemy so the icon looks as if it’s over the enemy’s head instead. But considering how much movement is going on in your typical match, I can’t imagine that being an issue for more than a split second on rare occasions.
I don't even know why we need enemy outlines, it makes more sense to just have a blue outline over friendlies when they are within line of sight. You don't need the entire friendly player outline visible when they are on other side of walls either, an icon and tag are enough.

The whole system just adds unnecessarily clutter to the UI.
WerepyreND wrote:
I don't even know why we need enemy outlines, it makes more sense to just have a blue outline over friendlies when they are within line of sight. You don't need the entire friendly player outline visible when they are on other side of walls either, an icon and tag are enough.

The whole system just adds unnecessarily clutter to the UI.
Agreed. I still wouldn't like it but its a much better solution to have it this way. That, or just give people markers over their heads like in every other game. Like, in battlefield people look generally the same but you can tell who your teammates are with an overhead icon... and you don't need a damn bright outline over everything. More simplistic, just werks, and I could agree with that one.
Best part is that there were a few threads during the flight by color blind people that said the system wasnt as helpful as red and blue, wish they would just let you have RvB as an option.
Yeah I miss RvB already....
Best part is that there were a few threads during the flight by color blind people that said the system wasnt as helpful as red and blue, wish they would just let you have RvB as an option.
Doesn't it depends on their color vision? The test flight had a lot of accessibility, wasn't it a colorblind option in the flight, or did I miss it?
  • Normal color
  • Deuteranopia color
  • Protanopia color
  • Tritanopia color
I think the Idea is well intentioned, but the execution needs work.

They need to monetize the multiplayer without seeming greedy like other games. The idea that people can "show off" their sick coating and that it adds accessibility options for people with various types of colorblindness is all good and well intentioned. The execution of these is where it falls short. For instance, I consistently had trouble telling if someone was on the other team or not when playing pvp, I also had trouble telling the status of an enemy's shields.

The execution of the 'gives players the ability to show off their Spartan' thing is flawed because -and I don't think this is just me- no one cares and no one is looking (in a match). I couldn't even tell what they're armor or coating really looked like until they died and the outline was gone.

I feel like only in custom games or free-for-all, are players really able to "show themselves off", unfortunately, if these game modes force the outline system then that will be lost. I'm sure they will improve the system but I honestly wish they just did forced colors with the addition of colorblind accessibility options that force color. They could still do Red vs Blue and in the settings give people colorblind support based on their team and enemy teams color. This would hit all objectives, and create no new problems.
Here's an idea: A permanent and highly visible waypoint should be above the heads of teammates at all times. The waypoint should be color customizable.

The real issue with the outline system, is that it makes it far too easy to see where enemies are. The glow is so intense, it's even easier to spot people than Red vs Blue coloration. It rewards inattentiveness. It's casualization of the game in a very bad way.
Here's an idea: A permanent and highly visible waypoint should be above the heads of teammates at all times. The waypoint should be color customizable.

The real issue with the outline system, is that it makes it far too easy to see where enemies are. The glow is so intense, it's even easier to spot people than Red vs Blue coloration. It rewards inattentiveness. It's casualization of the game in a very bad way.
I don't think it makes it any easier or harder to spot any enemy.

I'm all for any customisation options though that helps make it easier for players to identify friend or foe. The enemy gamertag above them certainly helped in previous games. The more options for accessibility, the better.
Personally I always felt that RvB was unfair to red team. I think red pops out more than blue and is easier to spot.

That being said, the outline system is not great either. It's inconsistent and makes it difficult to distinguish friend from foe.

Both systems have their flaws in my eyes and both can be worked on.

I would prefer we have teamates with tags above them at all times and having the enemy team not have an outline. Instead, a GT will show up once the reticle is on them. The color of the gt and the color of teamates icons should be customizable. Also, the color blind options should apply to coatings.
Toxhicide wrote:
Most people on the forums, especially if you paid attention to the like ratios, did not seem to think this was positive. At the very least this was controversial... you sure you aren't tooting your own ideological horn by saying this had a positive response? There were PLENTY asking to make it go away. Even now, about 10 threads below this one, there is a topic full of replies that lament this decision. Ridiculous to say that it was positive then go on to reinforce the ideology behind adding it and then blame it on color blindness.
Agreed, I don't imagine I'll be playing much multiplayer if they stick with the outlines... makes it way too... cartoonish.
Ken2379 wrote:
Here's an idea: A permanent and highly visible waypoint should be above the heads of teammates at all times. The waypoint should be color customizable.

The real issue with the outline system, is that it makes it far too easy to see where enemies are. The glow is so intense, it's even easier to spot people than Red vs Blue coloration. It rewards inattentiveness. It's casualization of the game in a very bad way.
I don't think it makes it any easier or harder to spot any enemy.
It definitely does. Imagine someone in a darker area in the corner and you come around the corner not being aware of your surroundings, you can get ninjad. Versus seeing a bright outline literally pointing you towards the enemy. Unnecessary handholding.
Toxhicide wrote:
Ken2379 wrote:
It definitely does. Imagine someone in a darker area in the corner and you come around the corner not being aware of your surroundings, you can get ninjad. Versus seeing a bright outline literally pointing you towards the enemy. Unnecessary handholding.
There's no place in Halo where a player can be hidden while in view of the camera. The outline isn't a light projection. Halo doesn't have dark shadowy corners you can hide in. You can hide in a corner, but you will be equally visible at all times. Maybe not to those with sight issues which makes the outline system a much fairer way of doing things as for most people they will see the enemy either way.

It isn't hand holding, it's an accessibility thing. Most games use the outline system and the fact you can customise the colour is perfect to help everyone be on an even playing field.
Most games do NOT use an outline system, not COD, not Battlefield, a couple do but MOST? Come on now.
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