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Precision Weapon Balancing

OP commando544

Considering this game is stated to last 10 years, we will most likely be getting most if not all precision weapons found in prior Halo games so it only makes sense to think of ways to design them so they fit in the sandbox and are unique.

  • Battle Rifle: not much to be said as it's the baseline 3 round burst weapon effective at medium range but capable in close and long if skilled enough. 2X zoom
  • DMR: should be balanced so it does not receive RRR at close range, this would force it to be used at medium to long range where it should take 4-5 shots to kill with a slower fire rate than all other DMR's ( this way it won't be a death sentence for people running in the open but still very effective at range where it should be ) 5 or 6X zoom
  • Magnum: assuming the magnum will come later it should probably follow the H2A and H4 model of being precise at close to medium range with low-medium damage and fire rate ( low damage high fire rate or medium damage but slow fire rate ) 2X zoom for slow fire rate magnum, no zoom or 1.25X zoom for rapid-fire magnum
  • Carbine: in previous titles this weapon has largely been redundant thanks to being outclassed overall by other weapons, lets remedy this by giving the carbine the fastest TTK of all precision weapons but making the aim assist and bullet magnetism significantly lower than other weapons, rewarding skill and adding more options for combat ( and perhaps reducing it's RRR ) 1.5X zoom
  • Lightrifle: Version A: H5 did a good job with this weapon as it had the fasted TTK, however for H:I it should probably find some other niche. So lets give it a slower TTK than the BR when unzoomed in but faster than the BR when zoomed, but making zoomed aim assist lower and unzoomed higher. Version B: Or a different approach to the lightrifle is making it slow firing 3-shot-kill weapon with low aim assist hip-fire and none when zoomed in ( or very little ) tell me which you prefer with version A or B. 3X zoom
  • Boltshot: We'll follow the H4 version, turning this pistol into a medium firing hand cannon ( with short-medium RRR ) with an alt fire that burst-fires the weapon with high recoil ( and it won't insta-kill, maybe only drain shields ) and is limited by ammo consumption. No zoom
  • Mangler: The demo showed this weapon as a medium-ish range revolver with high damage, perhaps it can be balanced to where it has very high headshot damage but low body shot damage. No Zoom
  • Commando: Not sure how this weapon functions but we can probably assume it's a fast firing but low damage weapon requiring you to track your target for longer than other precision weapons but rewarded with quick headshots on unshielded targets. 2X zoom but could be reduced to 1.5X
Nowhere was it ever stated Infinite would last 10 years...
The quote is that “Infinite will be the start of the next 10 years of Halo”. That is a big difference.
Consider the fact that the Xbox One would be 17 years old by the end of those “10 years”.

As for weapon balancing, I’m sure it’ll be fine for the most part. There isn’t any weapon in mind that really stands out as OP. Warzone was a fairly great example that a multitude of weapons can exist and not really break the sandbox too much.
Making everything unique however is a much more difficult task and frankly I don’t think that’s possible, there will be some level of crossover at some level.
TheDonCJG wrote:
Nowhere was it ever stated Infinite would last 10 years...
The quote is that “Infinite will be the start of the next 10 years of Halo”. That is a big difference.
Consider the fact that the Xbox One would be 17 years old by the end of those “10 years”.

As for weapon balancing, I’m sure it’ll be fine for the most part. There isn’t any weapon in mind that really stands out as OP. Warzone was a fairly great example that a multitude of weapons can exist and not really break the sandbox too much.
Making everything unique however is a much more difficult task and frankly I don’t think that’s possible, there will be some level of crossover at some level.
The first paragraph is semantics, you know what I meant. As for your second, that's the whole point of the thread....( to reduce crossover by making weapons different and unique in other ways than H5 did )
I don't think it'd be necessary to have every precision weapon in Halo in one game. That being said, as long as they're functionally all different and serve different roles in the sandbox it'd work. It's have to be done in a way where nobody would pick up a BR for long-range kills unless they had nothing else, if you get what I mean.
Fun fact the carbine has always had a slightly (and I mean slightly) higher ttk than the br in all appearances. I should know because I pick up the carbine over the br everytime. Same for the needle rifle Vs dmr in reach.
Fun fact the carbine has always had a slightly (and I mean slightly) higher ttk than the br in all appearances. I should know because I pick up the carbine over the br everytime. Same for the needle rifle Vs dmr in reach.
you sure? I've played all the games and I have never seen the carbine out trade a BR...Halo 4 seems to be the closest compared to the other weapons
Fun fact the carbine has always had a slightly (and I mean slightly) higher ttk than the br in all appearances. I should know because I pick up the carbine over the br everytime. Same for the needle rifle Vs dmr in reach.
you sure? I've played all the games and I have never seen the carbine out trade a BR...Halo 4 seems to be the closest compared to the other weapons
The Carbine's rate of fire is uncapped in Halo 2 Vista, and also MCC since it uses the Vista version, so it could potentially out-shoot a BR if you could shoot it fast enough. You'd need to shoot it very fast of course, but in theory it is possible.
Fun fact the carbine has always had a slightly (and I mean slightly) higher ttk than the br in all appearances. I should know because I pick up the carbine over the br everytime. Same for the needle rifle Vs dmr in reach.
you sure? I've played all the games and I have never seen the carbine out trade a BR...Halo 4 seems to be the closest compared to the other weapons
The Carbine's rate of fire is uncapped in Halo 2 Vista, and also MCC since it uses the Vista version, so it could potentially out-shoot a BR if you could shoot it fast enough. You'd need to shoot it very fast of course, but in theory it is possible.
I thought this was patched recently, I remember a version of MCC with a carbine that had a faster ROF. Either way I think it should be more apparent to make the carbine require more skill.
Or, and hear me out on this one, they could just not have a ton of nearly-identical weapons?

From what I've seen we have the Mangler, Sidekick, Commando, Battle Rifle, and Pulse Carbine.

What I can glean from them is that the Mangler functions sort of like a harder hitting version of the Halo 3 Magnum, being a powerful close range option that can accel at medium range with enough skill. For the player that wants to beat a BR up close.

The Commando seems to exist to give players an Automatic utility option, so that the AR doesn't have to drastically change to "try to keep up" with them.

The Sidekick seems designed to fill a true sidearm role, being pretty awful at killing opponents on its own but working very well for cleaning up kill. Wouldn't be surprised if it's weapon swap speed is insanely fast to exemplify its role as a combo weapon. (Especially if paired with a Plasma Pistol). Think like the Halo 2 pistol if it was actually fast and accurate enough to be worth hitting Y in the middle of a gunfight to use.

And finally the Pulse Carbine seems to be an attempt to make a Plasma weapon that can hang with the range and power of the Utility class. Trading skillsets from one about landing headshots, to one focused on shot leading. Doubling as a superb mid-range teamshot weapon due to its high shield damage.

This set, along with the BR as a baseline, definitely seems targetted at making the weapons have unique gameplay experiences, vs previously when the Magnum, BR, Carbine, DMR, NR, and LR all felt like they were doing the same thing with varying maximum range, rate of fire, and damage values. Like they were all just different Destiny Scout Rifles.
Fos Kuvol wrote:
Or, and hear me out on this one, they could just not have a ton of nearly-identical weapons?

From what I've seen we have the Mangler, Sidekick, Commando, Battle Rifle, and Pulse Carbine.

What I can glean from them is that the Mangler functions sort of like a harder hitting version of the Halo 3 Magnum, being a powerful close range option that can accel at medium range with enough skill. For the player that wants to beat a BR up close.

The Commando seems to exist to give players an Automatic utility option, so that the AR doesn't have to drastically change to "try to keep up" with them.

The Sidekick seems designed to fill a true sidearm role, being pretty awful at killing opponents on its own but working very well for cleaning up kill. Wouldn't be surprised if it's weapon swap speed is insanely fast to exemplify its role as a combo weapon. (Especially if paired with a Plasma Pistol). Think like the Halo 2 pistol if it was actually fast and accurate enough to be worth hitting Y in the middle of a gunfight to use.

And finally the Pulse Carbine seems to be an attempt to make a Plasma weapon that can hang with the range and power of the Utility class. Trading skillsets from one about landing headshots, to one focused on shot leading. Doubling as a superb mid-range teamshot weapon due to its high shield damage.

This set, along with the BR as a baseline, definitely seems targetted at making the weapons have unique gameplay experiences, vs previously when the Magnum, BR, Carbine, DMR, NR, and LR all felt like they were doing the same thing with varying maximum range, rate of fire, and damage values. Like they were all just different Destiny Scout Rifles.
You know 343 is making this game for 10 years right? so of course they are going to add new weapons.....and which weapons do you think are going to get added over time?

The whole point of this thread is to find a solution to a problem that will probably come up during Infinites lifespan...
Fos Kuvol wrote:
Or, and hear me out on this one, they could just not have a ton of nearly-identical weapons?

From what I've seen we have the Mangler, Sidekick, Commando, Battle Rifle, and Pulse Carbine.

What I can glean from them is that the Mangler functions sort of like a harder hitting version of the Halo 3 Magnum, being a powerful close range option that can accel at medium range with enough skill. For the player that wants to beat a BR up close.

The Commando seems to exist to give players an Automatic utility option, so that the AR doesn't have to drastically change to "try to keep up" with them.

The Sidekick seems designed to fill a true sidearm role, being pretty awful at killing opponents on its own but working very well for cleaning up kill. Wouldn't be surprised if it's weapon swap speed is insanely fast to exemplify its role as a combo weapon. (Especially if paired with a Plasma Pistol). Think like the Halo 2 pistol if it was actually fast and accurate enough to be worth hitting Y in the middle of a gunfight to use.

And finally the Pulse Carbine seems to be an attempt to make a Plasma weapon that can hang with the range and power of the Utility class. Trading skillsets from one about landing headshots, to one focused on shot leading. Doubling as a superb mid-range teamshot weapon due to its high shield damage.

This set, along with the BR as a baseline, definitely seems targetted at making the weapons have unique gameplay experiences, vs previously when the Magnum, BR, Carbine, DMR, NR, and LR all felt like they were doing the same thing with varying maximum range, rate of fire, and damage values. Like they were all just different Destiny Scout Rifles.
You know 343 is making this game for 10 years right? so of course they are going to add new weapons.....and which weapons do you think are going to get added over time?

The whole point of this thread is to find a solution to a problem that will probably come up during Infinites lifespan...
343 never actually said that Infinite will be the only game for the next few years. They said Infinite is the start of the next 10 years of Halo, and that they want to create a more uniform story to be told over the next decade. All that really means, is that the 2010's were full of numbered Halo titles that continuously served as soft reboots to the franchise. From Reach, to 4 to 5 each one wound up having little-to-no connection to the last, in the case of 4 and 5 they both started a brand new story that never got concluded in game-form, and new gameplay that didn't carry over to the next game. Rather their stories got "explained away" in the supplementary lore to make room for the next big soft reboot. They want the story that's beginning in Infinite to have a proper middle, and end over the course of the 2020's, while keeping the gameplay more similar across the titles, like in Halo's 1-3. (This is also why Atriox isn't the villain in Infinite, defeating him would mean ending the Banished, and the Banished need to stick around until the end of this story arc much like the Covenant did before them)
Fos Kuvol wrote:
Fos Kuvol wrote:
Or, and hear me out on this one, they could just not have a ton of nearly-identical weapons?

From what I've seen we have the Mangler, Sidekick, Commando, Battle Rifle, and Pulse Carbine.

What I can glean from them is that the Mangler functions sort of like a harder hitting version of the Halo 3 Magnum, being a powerful close range option that can accel at medium range with enough skill. For the player that wants to beat a BR up close.

The Commando seems to exist to give players an Automatic utility option, so that the AR doesn't have to drastically change to "try to keep up" with them.

The Sidekick seems designed to fill a true sidearm role, being pretty awful at killing opponents on its own but working very well for cleaning up kill. Wouldn't be surprised if it's weapon swap speed is insanely fast to exemplify its role as a combo weapon. (Especially if paired with a Plasma Pistol). Think like the Halo 2 pistol if it was actually fast and accurate enough to be worth hitting Y in the middle of a gunfight to use.

And finally the Pulse Carbine seems to be an attempt to make a Plasma weapon that can hang with the range and power of the Utility class. Trading skillsets from one about landing headshots, to one focused on shot leading. Doubling as a superb mid-range teamshot weapon due to its high shield damage.

This set, along with the BR as a baseline, definitely seems targetted at making the weapons have unique gameplay experiences, vs previously when the Magnum, BR, Carbine, DMR, NR, and LR all felt like they were doing the same thing with varying maximum range, rate of fire, and damage values. Like they were all just different Destiny Scout Rifles.
You know 343 is making this game for 10 years right? so of course they are going to add new weapons.....and which weapons do you think are going to get added over time?

The whole point of this thread is to find a solution to a problem that will probably come up during Infinites lifespan...
343 never actually said that Infinite will be the only game for the next few years. They said Infinite is the start of the next 10 years of Halo, and that they want to create a more uniform story to be told over the next decade. All that really means, is that the 2010's were full of numbered Halo titles that continuously served as soft reboots to the franchise. From Reach, to 4 to 5 each one wound up having little-to-no connection to the last, in the case of 4 and 5 they both started a brand new story that never got concluded in game-form, and new gameplay that didn't carry over to the next game. Rather their stories got "explained away" in the supplementary lore to make room for the next big soft reboot. They want the story that's beginning in Infinite to have a proper middle, and end over the course of the 2020's, while keeping the gameplay more similar across the titles, like in Halo's 1-3. (This is also why Atriox isn't the villain in Infinite, defeating him would mean ending the Banished, and the Banished need to stick around until the end of this story arc much like the Covenant did before them)
What does the story have to do with the fact that Infinite will serve as the 10-year platform with the same weapons....
They did say in the recent post that they were trying to do away with redundancy in the weapon sandbox, at least for launch... wouldn't be surprised if a few of these weapons didn't make the cut. And depending on what they cut and what reasons are behind it, it could be a good thing.
Fos Kuvol wrote:
Fos Kuvol wrote:
Or, and hear me out on this one, they could just not have a ton of nearly-identical weapons?

From what I've seen we have the Mangler, Sidekick, Commando, Battle Rifle, and Pulse Carbine.

What I can glean from them is that the Mangler functions sort of like a harder hitting version of the Halo 3 Magnum, being a powerful close range option that can accel at medium range with enough skill. For the player that wants to beat a BR up close.

The Commando seems to exist to give players an Automatic utility option, so that the AR doesn't have to drastically change to "try to keep up" with them.

The Sidekick seems designed to fill a true sidearm role, being pretty awful at killing opponents on its own but working very well for cleaning up kill. Wouldn't be surprised if it's weapon swap speed is insanely fast to exemplify its role as a combo weapon. (Especially if paired with a Plasma Pistol). Think like the Halo 2 pistol if it was actually fast and accurate enough to be worth hitting Y in the middle of a gunfight to use.

And finally the Pulse Carbine seems to be an attempt to make a Plasma weapon that can hang with the range and power of the Utility class. Trading skillsets from one about landing headshots, to one focused on shot leading. Doubling as a superb mid-range teamshot weapon due to its high shield damage.

This set, along with the BR as a baseline, definitely seems targetted at making the weapons have unique gameplay experiences, vs previously when the Magnum, BR, Carbine, DMR, NR, and LR all felt like they were doing the same thing with varying maximum range, rate of fire, and damage values. Like they were all just different Destiny Scout Rifles.
You know 343 is making this game for 10 years right? so of course they are going to add new weapons.....and which weapons do you think are going to get added over time?

The whole point of this thread is to find a solution to a problem that will probably come up during Infinites lifespan...
343 never actually said that Infinite will be the only game for the next few years. They said Infinite is the start of the next 10 years of Halo, and that they want to create a more uniform story to be told over the next decade. All that really means, is that the 2010's were full of numbered Halo titles that continuously served as soft reboots to the franchise. From Reach, to 4 to 5 each one wound up having little-to-no connection to the last, in the case of 4 and 5 they both started a brand new story that never got concluded in game-form, and new gameplay that didn't carry over to the next game. Rather their stories got "explained away" in the supplementary lore to make room for the next big soft reboot. They want the story that's beginning in Infinite to have a proper middle, and end over the course of the 2020's, while keeping the gameplay more similar across the titles, like in Halo's 1-3. (This is also why Atriox isn't the villain in Infinite, defeating him would mean ending the Banished, and the Banished need to stick around until the end of this story arc much like the Covenant did before them)
What does the story have to do with the fact that Infinite will serve as the 10-year platform with the same weapons....
They pointed out how disconnected 4 and 5 are from what came before and after and made a promise to make Halo in the 2020's an more continuous experience. Halo Infinite being the platform for the next 10 year means Infinite is the baseline, that the story started in it will continue through the decade and that the core gameplay of future titles will stay consistent with it, changing in much smaller ways than we saw through the 2010's. Much like how Halo CE was the platform of Halo for the 2000's, as core gameplay was fairly consistent between it, and Halo's 2 and 3, and the story was continuous between those games.
Fun fact the carbine has always had a slightly (and I mean slightly) higher ttk than the br in all appearances. I should know because I pick up the carbine over the br everytime. Same for the needle rifle Vs dmr in reach.
you sure? I've played all the games and I have never seen the carbine out trade a BR...Halo 4 seems to be the closest compared to the other weapons
Throughout all the games I've actively picked up non human precision weapons and out shot br and dmr users. Just have to not miss a single shot and hope there isn't two enemies aiming at you but yeah both carbine and needle rifle outshoot their counterparts by a little bit. Especially in reach with the Title Update (TU slayer) the needle rifle is just a better option imo
reducing the precision weapons bullet speed according to their targeted max range and bullet magnetism according to their minimum effective range helps balancing.
Fun fact the carbine has always had a slightly (and I mean slightly) higher ttk than the br in all appearances. I should know because I pick up the carbine over the br everytime. Same for the needle rifle Vs dmr in reach.
you sure? I've played all the games and I have never seen the carbine out trade a BR...Halo 4 seems to be the closest compared to the other weapons
Throughout all the games I've actively picked up non human precision weapons and out shot br and dmr users. Just have to not miss a single shot and hope there isn't two enemies aiming at you but yeah both carbine and needle rifle outshoot their counterparts by a little bit. Especially in reach with the Title Update (TU slayer) the needle rifle is just a better option imo
I can 100% confirm this for Halo 3. If both players start shooting at the same time, and trade perfect hits, the Carbine wins, just barely. The Carbine also gets the benefit of being able to make up for misses more easily. But where the Carbine falters, in all instances aside from 5, is with its accuracy. Carbine shots have a wider base spread than any other precision weapon, which makes it laughably ineffective when you get into longer range engagements (for a solid example, on Guardian the Carbine fails to effectively land shots between Sniper and Lift, but can go toe to toe and edge out the BR in virtually every other engagement on the map).

It also suffers from being incapable of keeping up with a BR when cover-shooting. You really need to keep them in your sight for the entire battle to really take advantage of it.