Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

Quite Frankly, I Like Armor Abilities

OP Kalyx triaD

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I know they have next to no chance of returning outside of custom games options, but while awkward in Reach, I found them very fun and tactically rich in H4. And for that matter I loved Loadouts as well, though I often disagreed with the official set-ups. I also miss the more flexible scoring options.

Ya know what? I like Halo 4. Despite how the mechanics were recieved, they made custom game creation/adjusting the best in the series. While I totally understand Infinite doing its own thing, I'd really like those options back. Except for Ordinance. Actually so long as its optional add that too. Add everything that ever happened in this series. Dual Wielding, whatever.

Have your official playlist rulesets, but give me the power to flex in custom game creation. The power to make Halo 4 with dual wielding.
Horses for courses mate. It's not for everyone but I wouldn't argue with anyone who enjoyed something I didn't. Glad you liked it :)
Loadouts kill EVEN spawns and vehicle combat, they don't belong to Halo, they were straight copied from CoD.
Armor Abilities were surely better than Spartan Abilities in terms of map design but they have their issues too.
Agreed on Ordinance being not present.

They can't realistically add everything before Halo Infinite, but if I could choose I would add everything pre-Halo 4.

After many years I can appreciate some things that Halo 4 has as its own game, but still to me it is not Halo.
That's fine that you like them. You can enjoy anything you want :)

Personally, I liked them too but not the way they were implemented in Reach or 4. Reaches MLG playlist did it best where all armour abilities were map pick up items. Once you died, you lost it. If AA we're done like this, I'm pretty sure they would have been much more widely accepted just like equipment was in Halo 3.

Loadouts I don't like in Halo nor do I want them in in anyway. Same with kill streaks, ordinance, ADS style zooming and kill cams. One of the big reasons why I started playing Halo way back when, was because it didn't have ADS style zooming, no joke.

When I go back and play Halo 4, it feels REALLY foreign to me. I use to think at the time it didn't feel very haloish, but now I really do. It's not a terrible game, It just doesn't feel like Halo to me. Even Reach I wasn't a big fan of, but overall I still liked it more then 4.

I'm all for whatever to be put into custom games though that's for sure 👍
Tactically rich? Being able to see through walls using promethean vision was everything but tactically rich, it was a hack.
And that's a fact, not an opinion.

But as you said, armor abilities were really funny in custom games, still I don't think they will come back.
I'm all for adding as much as possible for customs.
Conceptually I never had a problem with Armor abilities or a "4th leg of fun" at large. I think they potentially could have been the "right" solution, but they were implemented in the worst possible way.

Loadouts were always the real problem, how I wish I could have seen what Reach would have been like if armor abilities had been conceived around being map pickups rather instead of being chained to loadouts. Loadouts, while being a useful custom game tool for niche gametypes, are completely antithetical to what core Halo gameplay is about and poisoned almost everything they touched where matchmaking is concerned.
'Abilities' can work but at the same time it also can't...it really depends on what it is.
I don't mind things like pickups items like the 'limited' jet-pack or bubble shield but there are some things that shouldn't be included in any Halo games like 'abilities' that let people see through walls since that feels like cheating. I would love duel wielding back but some abilities need to stay gone like the 'Promethean vision' or 'kill-cams'.
Keep armour ability's because they are good but don't over do it with Infinite!
Karim wrote:
Tactically rich? Being able to see through walls using promethean vision was everything but tactically rich, it was a hack.
And that's a fact, not an opinion.

But as you said, armor abilities were really funny in custom games, still I don't think they will come back.
Not a single AA in H4 was broken. They had limited active time and fairly restrictive cooldowns. Not to mention common sense counter play, some counters were built into the ability itself.

Lot of people spoke about how AAs broke the game but I've never actually seen posts explaining how any one AA ruined the game. Even the most infamous AA, Vision, was NOT the most used/seen AA in a match. Late life, if people hung around that long, the sentry bot started seeing way more play - but nobody ever complained about them online.

Makes me think the actual argument was it's different rather than overt balance issues.
Loadouts kill EVEN spawns and vehicle combat, they don't belong to Halo, they were straight copied from CoD.
Armor Abilities were surely better than Spartan Abilities in terms of map design but they have their issues too.
Agreed on Ordinance being not present.

They can't realistically add everything before Halo Infinite, but if I could choose I would add everything pre-Halo 4.

After many years I can appreciate some things that Halo 4 has as its own game, but still to me it is not Halo.
Choosing sticky grenades killed vehicle combat.

But I didn't ask for mandatory inclusions of these systems so I'm not sure why some of you responded the way you did lol.
I'm glad you enjoyed those games , a lot of us didn't. And although I loved using the Jet pack it was completely broken. It broke map flow , it broke map creation from time to time (maps with places only jet-packs can get to [if it made it faster or easier to get to is one thing , but having to use a specific ability to reach areas that are other wise inaccessible is just bad map design]) and it made for horrible social games because you inevitably had one or two people every game who couldn't do anything with it but become a Spartan skeet.
Loadouts kill EVEN spawns and vehicle combat, they don't belong to Halo, they were straight copied from CoD.
Armor Abilities were surely better than Spartan Abilities in terms of map design but they have their issues too.
Agreed on Ordinance being not present.

They can't realistically add everything before Halo Infinite, but if I could choose I would add everything pre-Halo 4.

After many years I can appreciate some things that Halo 4 has as its own game, but still to me it is not Halo.
Choosing sticky grenades killed vehicle combat.

But I didn't ask for mandatory inclusions of these systems so I'm not sure why some of you responded the way you did lol.
To be fair, you can't pose a question that has been a hotly debated topic in the community and expect people to not respond as such. This is an issue that has divided the community in more ways than one.

As for sticky grenades, they actually provide an organic balance to vehicle combat. Without them, anyone who doesn't have a vehicle might as well just quit because they have no way of fighting back until they find a vehicle of their own. This is especially true for aerial vehicles because you can't board them as easily. Being able to lob a grenade to defend yourself makes it possible for someone not in a vehicle to be able to take part in vehicle combat.
Karim wrote:
Tactically rich? Being able to see through walls using promethean vision was everything but tactically rich, it was a hack.
And that's a fact, not an opinion.

But as you said, armor abilities were really funny in custom games, still I don't think they will come back.
Not a single AA in H4 was broken. They had limited active time and fairly restrictive cooldowns. Not to mention common sense counter play, some counters were built into the ability itself.

Lot of people spoke about how AAs broke the game but I've never actually seen posts explaining how any one AA ruined the game. Even the most infamous AA, Vision, was NOT the most used/seen AA in a match. Late life, if people hung around that long, the sentry bot started seeing way more play - but nobody ever complained about them online.

Makes me think the actual argument was it's different rather than overt balance issues.
Being able to see through walls or spawning with active camo wasnt broken?
Loadouts kill EVEN spawns and vehicle combat, they don't belong to Halo, they were straight copied from CoD.
Armor Abilities were surely better than Spartan Abilities in terms of map design but they have their issues too.
Agreed on Ordinance being not present.

They can't realistically add everything before Halo Infinite, but if I could choose I would add everything pre-Halo 4.

After many years I can appreciate some things that Halo 4 has as its own game, but still to me it is not Halo.
Choosing sticky grenades killed vehicle combat.

But I didn't ask for mandatory inclusions of these systems so I'm not sure why some of you responded the way you did lol.
To be fair, you can't pose a question that has been a hotly debated topic in the community and expect people to not respond as such. This is an issue that has divided the community in more ways than one.

As for sticky grenades, they actually provide an organic balance to vehicle combat. Without them, anyone who doesn't have a vehicle might as well just quit because they have no way of fighting back until they find a vehicle of their own. This is especially true for aerial vehicles because you can't board them as easily. Being able to lob a grenade to defend yourself makes it possible for someone not in a vehicle to be able to take part in vehicle combat.
(For the record, I agree that stickies on Loadout wasn't the end of the world. But their effect on vehicle play can't be dismissed.)

I didn't post a question. I very clearly expressed my enjoyment if the mechanics and how I'd like them back as options. Tben people responded as if I requested them back for playlist rules/base mechanics.
Karim wrote:
Tactically rich? Being able to see through walls using promethean vision was everything but tactically rich, it was a hack.
And that's a fact, not an opinion.

But as you said, armor abilities were really funny in custom games, still I don't think they will come back.
Not a single AA in H4 was broken. They had limited active time and fairly restrictive cooldowns. Not to mention common sense counter play, some counters were built into the ability itself.

Lot of people spoke about how AAs broke the game but I've never actually seen posts explaining how any one AA ruined the game. Even the most infamous AA, Vision, was NOT the most used/seen AA in a match. Late life, if people hung around that long, the sentry bot started seeing way more play - but nobody ever complained about them online.

Makes me think the actual argument was it's different rather than overt balance issues.
Being able to see through walls or spawning with active camo wasnt broken?
No.

Promethean Vision gave off a signal than enemy was using it, was very brief, and obsured the environment into a xray styled filter that was not very nice on the eyes. Again, there's a reason Everybody in the match didn't just default to Vision. There's a reason it wasn't ever a high meta pick.

Camo went opaque when you moved at a speed that would otherwise put you on radar. It also obscured your own radar with dots which also showed up on enemy radar giving you away. And all abilities were regulated with energy resource with recharge time.

It kinda proves my point that rather than explain how they were broken... you ask a loaded question. But I played a lot of H4. Active on various forums related to H4. The arguments against AAs were always about how they subverted several Halo traditional pillars, which is fair enough criticism.

Nobody, and I mean nobody articulated how any one of them were broken. The only one that was massively disruptive was Armor Lock in Reach and sure enough it got one major nerf in Reach and never came back in H4. H4 AAs required one major balance pass ever.
I know they have next to no chance of returning outside of custom games options, but while awkward in Reach, I found them very fun and tactically rich in H4. And for that matter I loved Loadouts as well, though I often disagreed with the official set-ups. I also miss the more flexible scoring options.

Ya know what? I like Halo 4. Despite how the mechanics were recieved, they made custom game creation/adjusting the best in the series. While I totally understand Infinite doing its own thing, I'd really like those options back. Except for Ordinance. Actually so long as its optional add that too. Add everything that ever happened in this series. Dual Wielding, whatever.

Have your official playlist rulesets, but give me the power to flex in custom game creation. The power to make Halo 4 with dual wielding.
As fun as it'd be to have everything back as options, there are a few things to consider.

-Control scheme: Think of how many different combinations of enabled/disabled mechanics there are, and what possible new things they may have for Infinite. Halo 5's controller scheme felt crowded with what it had, now think about having Dual Wielding, equipment, AA's and Spartan Abilities enabled, and going in with whatever Infinite might have.
-Assets: Equipment and AA's require their own assets, Meshes, code, sound and animations. Dual Wielding require single wield weapons, and having a small number of single wields wouldn't exactly make dual wielding that fun, or? Then there's the question of how to handle them in terms of damage? All single wields get a damage reduction while dual wielded? Are all single wields going to be made available everywhere else in the game? Are these single wields made soley added for Dual Wielding in custom options? And as such bloating the "sandbox proper"? Not to mention that these features also need to be tested individuelly and as groups in combinations of each other.
-Resources: i343 has limited resources, additions like these would most certainly take away from other things in the game development where those resources could be used to make the "main game" better, more polished.
-"Value": Kind of difficult for me to pinpoint a specific descriptive word for this.
Now, these features would be Custom Game options only, meaning they'd be absent from any other mode than multiplayer.
If we consider that any game up untill now has tried to make each mechanic / trait / feature something the player would have access to and be made to use as much as possible, then the value of the work put into these would be very low, as the mechanics / traits / features wouldn't be used as much.

It's not impossible, but I find it highly improbable they'd do it. Even more unlikely that they'll pull it of well if they actually decide to go through with it.
Naqser wrote:
I know they have next to no chance of returning outside of custom games options, but while awkward in Reach, I found them very fun and tactically rich in H4. And for that matter I loved Loadouts as well, though I often disagreed with the official set-ups. I also miss the more flexible scoring options.

Ya know what? I like Halo 4. Despite how the mechanics were recieved, they made custom game creation/adjusting the best in the series. While I totally understand Infinite doing its own thing, I'd really like those options back. Except for Ordinance. Actually so long as its optional add that too. Add everything that ever happened in this series. Dual Wielding, whatever.

Have your official playlist rulesets, but give me the power to flex in custom game creation. The power to make Halo 4 with dual wielding.
As fun as it'd be to have everything back as options, there are a few things to consider.

-Control scheme: Think of how many different combinations of enabled/disabled mechanics there are, and what possible new things they may have for Infinite. Halo 5's controller scheme felt crowded with what it had, now think about having Dual Wielding, equipment, AA's and Spartan Abilities enabled, and going in with whatever Infinite might have.
-Assets: Equipment and AA's require their own assets, Meshes, code, sound and animations. Dual Wielding require single wield weapons, and having a small number of single wields wouldn't exactly make dual wielding that fun, or? Then there's the question of how to handle them in terms of damage? All single wields get a damage reduction while dual wielded? Are all single wields going to be made available everywhere else in the game? Are these single wields made soley added for Dual Wielding in custom options? And as such bloating the "sandbox proper"? Not to mention that these features also need to be tested individuelly and as groups in combinations of each other.
-Resources: i343 has limited resources, additions like these would most certainly take away from other things in the game development where those resources could be used to make the "main game" better, more polished.
-"Value": Kind of difficult for me to pinpoint a specific descriptive word for this.
Now, these features would be Custom Game options only, meaning they'd be absent from any other mode than multiplayer.
If we consider that any game up untill now has tried to make each mechanic / trait / feature something the player would have access to and be made to use as much as possible, then the value of the work put into these would be very low, as the mechanics / traits / features wouldn't be used as much.

It's not impossible, but I find it highly improbable they'd do it. Even more unlikely that they'll pull it of well if they actually decide to go through with it.
- Control would be the biggest issue since the Ability button was put to other uses in H5. This is a legit complication that I have thought about. No clear answer here other than customs specific controls which would be over doing it.

- Game development is developing things like assets and sound.

- We'd only need three dual wield weapons that are mix and match ready. That's a decent enough number to balance around, too.

- No need to nerf damage when dual wielding them, simply make them weak solo. Encourage the main point, if you're choosing to have that in a customs game. And they would be exclusive to customs, for exactly the reason seen in this thread. Misunderstandings nearly went into debate. That's why I rather these be optional.

- I don't have much sympathy for the AAA games industry in terms of resource management. I feel this would make the game better and now I gotta hear about resource management. How about they don't waste resources on campaign and do this for me and custom creators?

- What is the value of the several Forge items, Warzone weapon variants, campaign environments, and armor pieces that were probably seen and used a few times ever?
Naqser wrote:
I know they have next to no chance of returning outside of custom games options, but while awkward in Reach, I found them very fun and tactically rich in H4. And for that matter I loved Loadouts as well, though I often disagreed with the official set-ups. I also miss the more flexible scoring options.

Ya know what? I like Halo 4. Despite how the mechanics were recieved, they made custom game creation/adjusting the best in the series. While I totally understand Infinite doing its own thing, I'd really like those options back. Except for Ordinance. Actually so long as its optional add that too. Add everything that ever happened in this series. Dual Wielding, whatever.

Have your official playlist rulesets, but give me the power to flex in custom game creation. The power to make Halo 4 with dual wielding.
As fun as it'd be to have everything back as options, there are a few things to consider.

-Control scheme: Think of how many different combinations of enabled/disabled mechanics there are, and what possible new things they may have for Infinite. Halo 5's controller scheme felt crowded with what it had, now think about having Dual Wielding, equipment, AA's and Spartan Abilities enabled, and going in with whatever Infinite might have.
-Assets: Equipment and AA's require their own assets, Meshes, code, sound and animations. Dual Wielding require single wield weapons, and having a small number of single wields wouldn't exactly make dual wielding that fun, or? Then there's the question of how to handle them in terms of damage? All single wields get a damage reduction while dual wielded? Are all single wields going to be made available everywhere else in the game? Are these single wields made soley added for Dual Wielding in custom options? And as such bloating the "sandbox proper"? Not to mention that these features also need to be tested individuelly and as groups in combinations of each other.
-Resources: i343 has limited resources, additions like these would most certainly take away from other things in the game development where those resources could be used to make the "main game" better, more polished.
-"Value": Kind of difficult for me to pinpoint a specific descriptive word for this.
Now, these features would be Custom Game options only, meaning they'd be absent from any other mode than multiplayer.
If we consider that any game up untill now has tried to make each mechanic / trait / feature something the player would have access to and be made to use as much as possible, then the value of the work put into these would be very low, as the mechanics / traits / features wouldn't be used as much.

It's not impossible, but I find it highly improbable they'd do it. Even more unlikely that they'll pull it of well if they actually decide to go through with it.
- Control would be the biggest issue since the Ability button was put to other uses in H5. This is a legit complication that I have thought about. No clear answer here other than customs specific controls which would be over doing it.

- Game development is developing things like assets and sound.

- We'd only need three dual wield weapons that are mix and match ready. That's a decent enough number to balance around, too.

- No need to nerf damage when dual wielding them, simply make them weak solo. Encourage the main point, if you're choosing to have that in a customs game. And they would be exclusive to customs, for exactly the reason seen in this thread. Misunderstandings nearly went into debate. That's why I rather these be optional.

- I don't have much sympathy for the AAA games industry in terms of resource management. I feel this would make the game better and now I gotta hear about resource management. How about they don't waste resources on campaign and do this for me and custom creators?- What is the value of the several Forge items, Warzone weapon variants, campaign environments, and armor pieces that were probably seen and used a few times ever?
So you want to take away from the experience that more than half the community plays the game for (literal whole communities have arisen around campaign play , which is what got most of us into this series to begin with ; no matter what game you started playing Halo , the campaign was likely the first experience) , to enrich parts of the game aimed at a niche audience. Even if it is or was only played once fully thru , most Halo fans have finished the Halo campaigns just to stay up on the story (Compared to most games where 10% of players on average see the end). What is bolded is highly doubtful.

I'm not trying to belittle the customs crowd or map creators , a lot of them do great work. However , to expect the main draw of the game to be reduced so they can expand the offerings wanted by a smaller group , just isn't good business. If the Halo community at large was made of mostly customs players , or had an abundance of highly skilled forge creators , this might make sense. Unfortunately , customs have been losing popularity since the end of Halo 2 , it was a regular ocurence to have multiple friends in different custom lobbies during it's heyday , or even have open invites on Bungie forums to join customs , or get an invite from a previous MM opponent (before the proliferation of "1v1 me bro"). Since then not so much.

And I am not trying to say that expanded custom tools and options would not be well received , on the contrary , I think most Halo players feel the more custom options you have the longer the game can last , but not at the expense of the main single player story (which is becoming more and more rare in today's gaming landscape).
Karim wrote:
Tactically rich? Being able to see through walls using promethean vision was everything but tactically rich, it was a hack.
And that's a fact, not an opinion.

But as you said, armor abilities were really funny in custom games, still I don't think they will come back.
Sunsdune wrote:
I'm glad you enjoyed those games , a lot of us didn't. And although I loved using the Jet pack it was completely broken. It broke map flow , it broke map creation from time to time (maps with places only jet-packs can get to [if it made it faster or easier to get to is one thing , but having to use a specific ability to reach areas that are other wise inaccessible is just bad map design]) and it made for horrible social games because you inevitably had one or two people every game who couldn't do anything with it but become a Spartan skeet.
Nobody, and I mean nobody articulated how any one of them were broken.
Sunsdune wrote:
I'm glad you enjoyed those games , a lot of us didn't. And although I loved using the Jet pack it was completely broken. It broke map flow , it broke map creation from time to time (maps with places only jet-packs can get to [if it made it faster or easier to get to is one thing , but having to use a specific ability to reach areas that are other wise inaccessible is just bad map design]) and it made for horrible social games because you inevitably had one or two people every game who couldn't do anything with it but become a Spartan skeet.
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