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Quite Frankly, I Like Armor Abilities

OP Kalyx triaD

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Battle wrote:
The preset loadouts in Reach were so far the best way to handle AA's. Even though I wasn't a big fan of them using different guns for each. Could you imagine H5's starting Pistol and AR with any Reach AA? I think that would be fun. Once the spawning weapons are tweeked were most people function well with them just adding choice AA's on spawn and some swapable ons on the map would be a blast.
Imho starts without anything besides two basic weapons and a frag is the way to go. At least in 4v4 TDM or classic slayer! Loadouts are more of team strategy based modes, meaning something like firefight, Invasion or Warzone. However slayer modes in my opinion are better with equal starts and equipment on the map (in this case AA) that you got conquer!

Having to fight for the equipment also makes map design a more interesting endeavour. Think about areas that can only be reached or at least cut short by specific AAs, however you got to earn them first on completely different points on the map for instance! Those map positions also might be dangerous for the player to reach for the sake of balancing: maybe the PW is on an open space making you an easy target, or it may be surrounded by lava, meaning your landing must be perfect to get the goodie! Or maybe the PW is placed on a high spot of some machinery, but other player can activate it from below and kill the enemy player by doing so. Just to drop some ideas! And anything like this would be well integrated if player could just choose the loadout from the get go.

...not to mention weapons should be different based on the AA in any case, because some gun+ability combos are just too strong to spawn with. Let's not forget that disaster that was H4 my Halo comrades! Yes, I am watching Chernobyl right now!^^
Odd thing is that armor abilities while it was possible for them to be placed as pickup items, they were utilized more like a class ability? Which was probably why they were not item that was dropped after death, where as H3 had the concept of the equipment dump where you just hit the equipment button before dying to prevent it from being used later.

On a classic reach map I am working on I have this bad habit of trying to put ever single item (weapon, vehicle, grenade, powerup) in my maps. Which includes Armor lock. So that being said I am thinking of making Armor Lock a limited item as only 2 per team 3rd stage and does not respawn. So it is treated more like a consumable resource in which dying expends it. Why they didn't consider that in multiplayer matches along with things like jetpacks I don't know why. Possibly because hoarders would waste it as soon as it was spawned.
On a classic reach map I am working on I have this bad habit of trying to put ever single item (weapon, vehicle, grenade, powerup) in my maps. Which includes Armor lock. So that being said I am thinking of making Armor Lock a limited item as only 2 per team 3rd stage and does not respawn. So it is treated more like a consumable resource in which dying expends it. Why they didn't consider that in multiplayer matches along with things like jetpacks I don't know why. Possibly because hoarders would waste it as soon as it was spawned.
The problem with armor lock becoming a consumable resource is that it would still be a bad ability. When I come down to it the vast majority of Time all it ever does is pause combat. The only times it can effectively counter an opponent is if their shooting a rocket at you, are barrelling toward you in a fast vehicle, or if the player simply doesnt know how armor lock works. If they brought it back, in my opinion, it would have to be altered. Fusing armor lock with invincibility from halo 3 is a good way to do it. When you activate it you can still move just at half speed, it still has the imp effect once it ends, it could last 10-20 seconds, it could still have the effect of deflecting weapon fire and destroying vehicles that try to ram it. if they want there to be a way to counter it they could allow assassinations to still happen but the imp effect will still taking away the assassins shields in the process along with anyone else that's too close.

Yes it does, by a considerable margin too. Even 343 have been supporting H3 more than H5 for the past year if you didn’t know. H5 is no longer the featured competitive title, it’s been H3 for almost a year now I believe.
You mind posting a source for that?
Quote:
Also H3 has the best art style by a landslide. H4s is the worst in the series being so dull and H5s looks alright but the art style just doesn’t look as real as H3s and doesn’t give off that Halo vibe. So don’t know what your on about?
Liking or disliking the art style is nothing but your opinion unless there is some study I dont know about that proves the majority of people prefer halo 3s art style over 4 and 5's
Snockooz wrote:
On a classic reach map I am working on I have this bad habit of trying to put ever single item (weapon, vehicle, grenade, powerup) in my maps. Which includes Armor lock. So that being said I am thinking of making Armor Lock a limited item as only 2 per team 3rd stage and does not respawn. So it is treated more like a consumable resource in which dying expends it. Why they didn't consider that in multiplayer matches along with things like jetpacks I don't know why. Possibly because hoarders would waste it as soon as it was spawned.
The problem with armor lock becoming a consumable resource is that it would still be a bad ability. When I come down to it the vast majority of Time all it ever does is pause combat. The only times it can effectively counter an opponent is if their shooting a rocket at you, are barrelling toward you in a fast vehicle, or if the player simply doesnt know how armor lock works. If they brought it back, in my opinion, it would have to be altered. Fusing armor lock with invincibility from halo 3 is a good way to do it. When you activate it you can still move just at half speed, it still has the imp effect once it ends, it could last 10-20 seconds, it could still have the effect of deflecting weapon fire and destroying vehicles that try to ram it. if they want there to be a way to counter it they could allow assassinations to still happen but the imp effect will still taking away the assassins shields in the process along with anyone else that's too close.

Yes it does, by a considerable margin too. Even 343 have been supporting H3 more than H5 for the past year if you didn’t know. H5 is no longer the featured competitive title, it’s been H3 for almost a year now I believe.
You mind posting a source for that?
Quote:
Also H3 has the best art style by a landslide. H4s is the worst in the series being so dull and H5s looks alright but the art style just doesn’t look as real as H3s and doesn’t give off that Halo vibe. So don’t know what your on about?
Liking or disliking the art style is nothing but your opinion unless there is some study I dont know about that proves the majority of people prefer halo 3s art style over 4 and 5's
Being a bad ability is not the same as a bad mechanic. As for invulnerability from Halo 3 there was a reason that Bungie didn't even put it in forge. Of course Armor lock would have to be altered and IMHO having a player assassinate through armor lock would be a great place to start. As for vehicles well engaging infantry at extreme close ranges (aka ramming) has always been a risky prospect thanks to boarding. So players should have understand that you can't just run over infantry unless they were caught unaware.
I know they have next to no chance of returning outside of custom games options, but while awkward in Reach, I found them very fun and tactically rich in H4. And for that matter I loved Loadouts as well, though I often disagreed with the official set-ups. I also miss the more flexible scoring options.

Ya know what? I like Halo 4. Despite how the mechanics were recieved, they made custom game creation/adjusting the best in the series. While I totally understand Infinite doing its own thing, I'd really like those options back. Except for Ordinance. Actually so long as its optional add that too. Add everything that ever happened in this series. Dual Wielding, whatever.

Have your official playlist rulesets, but give me the power to flex in custom game creation. The power to make Halo 4 with dual wielding.
Halo 4 and 5, for all their flaws and faults, introduced innovation that really evolved the way we play Halo--and that makes me happy. It really does. I'm not a fan of thrust, but clamber was needed, and sprint just makes sense for a super soldier (not as an ability though, just at will).
Clamber makes tons of sense. What kind of idiot super soldier can't grab a ledge and pull himself up. Nothing was more annoying in the old days than jumping up to a ledge and just falling back down because it was a little too high.
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Snockooz wrote:
Yes it does, by a considerable margin too. Even 343 have been supporting H3 more than H5 for the past year if you didn’t know. H5 is no longer the featured competitive title, it’s been H3 for almost a year now I believe.
You mind posting a source for that?
Quote:
It's in the link at the top of this page. ESPORTS. It does seem to be Halo 3 more than any other. Back on topic, I'm not a fan of abilities but I would be ok with them added to customs.
I just don't understand why after 10 years (Reach in 2010) people are so against Halo returning to its roots for H6 (2020). The last 10 years obsviously haven't worked out as intended (even 343 has acknowledged this with H4, MCC and the decreased popularity of H5). Just give it a shot. It can't possibly fair worse. The orignal Halo fans will come back and the newer ones that have picked up the game can try the old style. Older players have been playing this new style for 10 years now, so can't we do a switch? I don't see Halo losing players for going back to the tried and true formula. Even if some people don't like it and decided to go play CoD or another similar game the old Halo players coming back would well and truely make up for it (but like I said previously Halo fans are Halo fans, they will buy the game regardless and I don't see many leaving). Even if you look at CoD, they are going back to their roots this year as they too have fallen in a slump like Halo has.
The last time CoD went back to their roots didn’t do as well as people though. Thing is that not many newer players would like the old gameplay, except for those who have played the older games and know the feel of playing it (like me.) From a business point of view, 343 will want to attract both older and newer players. So why not find a middle ground for old and new?
Not sure where your getting your information from, but COD WW2 did incredibly well!! A simple Google search will tell you how well it has done. LinkNot only has it sold super well, it sold twice as fast as advanced warfare. A game that has "advance moment" Link 2Halo has every reason to go back to a more simplistic move style. Not only do sales numbers in there series show that "advance moment" hasn't done as well, but new games such as Overwatch and Doom that have little or no advance moment have sold incredibly well.

So from a business point of view, 343I/Microsoft have EVERY reason to "go back to Halo's roots" as they have lots information out there that show if done properly, the majority of people seem to like those types of games better then games with "advanced movement"

I've said this lots of times. As Long as the game is fun, people don't care what mechanics are in the game
Now that I look back, I think I worded it wrong when I said that people didn’t like WW2. However, it wasn’t better than WaW for example. It sold well because the older CoD fans saw that it went back to their roots, and the little kids saw a new CoD, which meant it’d sell well for sure.

You can’t actually use Doom as an example for a game with no advanced movement, because when you try walking, it feels like you’re still sprinting without actually sprinting.

As for Microsoft having every reason to go for classic gameplay, they don’t. They have every reason, though, to appeal to both old and new players.
Now that I look back, I think I worded it wrong when I said that people didn’t like WW2. However, it wasn’t better than WaW for example. It sold well because the older CoD fans saw that it went back to their roots, and the little kids saw a new CoD, which meant it’d sell well for sure.
Wait, what's the point here exactly? I really don't understand what you're comparing. Based on sales WW2 did a lot better than WaW, didn't it? Also the second one is often described to be among the least liked games of the series by the CoD community, while I saw WW2 getting praised a lot (until Activision greed ruined it with yet another gambling mechanic that is).

So is the comparison about sales, population, popularity...? I really don't follow you here mate! 😅

You can’t actually use Doom as an example for a game with no advanced movement, because when you try walking, it feels like you’re still sprinting without actually sprinting.
Ehm, yes we can? I mean, you're describing exactly why we're using DOOM as an example in first place! Halo 1 to 3 did exactly that -> you were sprinting with your gun up and without using an additional button to reach max speed. So what are we talking about?

And for the why it doesn't FEEL like you're running (at least in H3 and partially in H2) it was explained many times before as well. FOV in primis. Which is also why we're using DOOM as an example: it's a modern shooter with the move-set we desire for Halo, but without the technical issues from past Bungie entries.

So sorry if your statement baffles me to say the least, but it means you didn't got our point and reasoning at all! 😐

As for Microsoft having every reason to go for classic gameplay, they don’t. They have every reason, though, to appeal to both old and new players.
Fine by me, but like I asked you before without getting an answer: how is this compromise going to look like?
I just don't understand why after 10 years (Reach in 2010) people are so against Halo returning to its roots for H6 (2020). The last 10 years obsviously haven't worked out as intended (even 343 has acknowledged this with H4, MCC and the decreased popularity of H5). Just give it a shot. It can't possibly fair worse. The orignal Halo fans will come back and the newer ones that have picked up the game can try the old style. Older players have been playing this new style for 10 years now, so can't we do a switch? I don't see Halo losing players for going back to the tried and true formula. Even if some people don't like it and decided to go play CoD or another similar game the old Halo players coming back would well and truely make up for it (but like I said previously Halo fans are Halo fans, they will buy the game regardless and I don't see many leaving). Even if you look at CoD, they are going back to their roots this year as they too have fallen in a slump like Halo has.
Please don't post multiple time in a row. If you need to add more information or quote other users, you can edit your last post. Thanks
You can’t actually use Doom as an example for a game with no advanced movement, because when you try walking, it feels like you’re still sprinting without actually sprinting.
Isn't that word for word what people want? To feel like they're going really fast?

From here it sounds like you just described the compromise for both "old" and "new" players.
You can’t actually use Doom as an example for a game with no advanced movement, because when you try walking, it feels like you’re still sprinting without actually sprinting.
Isn't that word for word what people want? To feel like they're going really fast?

From here it sounds like you just described the compromise for both "old" and "new" players.
I don't know exactly. I think Halo you need to be more at a "speed walking" pace. Not feeling like you're sprinting but moving fast enough that you feel like you're moving quickly.
Just curious what Halo game you started with? And since you are just talking about custom games why not just play H4? Why does Infinite need them when it’s one of the reasons the last few games have suffered in terms of population. Look at the bigger picture in terms of what people want.

90% (I’m being generous) of players don’t want these abilities and mechanics to make a return. These features are one of the sole reasons why Halo is currently dead. The basis of Halo is equal starts, with armour abilities and loadouts the core of Halo is completely stripped away. If you look at the longevity of the Halo games the ones without these mechanics lasted the longest and were the most popular.

Btw I played a lot of H4 but that game was just Microsoft’s version of CoD.
I've played Halo games since H1 and Xbox launched, day 1 of the whole thing. Hosted H1 LAN parties and large scale parties in H2. Created and hosted lots of H3 custom getogethers. I'm not some dude. I understood that Halo was amazing before most gamers trusted Xbox and Bungie enough to give it a try. Guys like me went online to tell people to use the damn pistol. I been around.

Here's the thing; nobody cares about online complaints. That's not to say online outrage doesn't change things, they do. But by and large most people aren't online yelling at the creators of their fave things. So throwing around 90% this and that is moot, the difference between the Halo playerbase and its online community is staggering.

But that's neither here or there, since I very clearly and fairly noted that I'm not asking for the next game to use AAs in its base gameplay. In fact, functionally speaking, H2A is probably where 343 should begin to design a new Halo game since it's functionally quintessential 'Halo'.

PS: H4 was not a CoD clone, just a hodge of dissonant design decisions corrected by a few switches in the custom game options.
Just curious what Halo game you started with? And since you are just talking about custom games why not just play H4? Why does Infinite need them when it’s one of the reasons the last few games have suffered in terms of population. Look at the bigger picture in terms of what people want.

90% (I’m being generous) of players don’t want these abilities and mechanics to make a return. These features are one of the sole reasons why Halo is currently dead. The basis of Halo is equal starts, with armour abilities and loadouts the core of Halo is completely stripped away. If you look at the longevity of the Halo games the ones without these mechanics lasted the longest and were the most popular.

Btw I played a lot of H4 but that game was just Microsoft’s version of CoD.
I've played Halo games since H1 and Xbox launched, day 1 of the whole thing. Hosted H1 LAN parties and large scale parties in H2. Created and hosted lots of H3 custom getogethers. I'm not some dude. I understood that Halo was amazing before most gamers trusted Xbox and Bungie enough to give it a try. Guys like me went online to tell people to use the damn pistol. I been around.

Here's the thing; nobody cares about online complaints. That's not to say online outrage doesn't change things, they do. But by and large most people aren't online yelling at the creators of their fave things. So throwing around 90% this and that is moot, the difference between the Halo playerbase and its online community is staggering.

But that's neither here or there, since I very clearly and fairly noted that I'm not asking for the next game to use AAs in its base gameplay. In fact, functionally speaking, H2A is probably where 343 should begin to design a new Halo game since it's functionally quintessential 'Halo'.

PS: H4 was not a CoD clone, just a hodge of dissonant design decisions corrected by a few switches in the custom game options.
I'm not a fan of the armor abilities. I played Halo since Halo 2 in 2004 and it's the reason I bought an xbox. I set up and attended my fair share of Halo LAN parties at home and in game shops around. I'm totally good with what you're suggesting here. I don't like the AA's but if you want to include them for custom games go for it.
PS: H4 was not a CoD clone, just a hodge of dissonant design decisions corrected by a few switches in the custom game options.
Yeah, but people here were talking about matchmaking and not custom games. And there most modes got personalized loadouts with AAs, kill-streaks with a new fancy name, sprints, a weapon sandbox created around sprint and tunnel like circular level-designs with three paths. So yeah, I understand why people call Halo 4 "CoD with shields"! 🤷‍♂️ ...and frankly I don't disagree!
PS: H4 was not a CoD clone, just a hodge of dissonant design decisions corrected by a few switches in the custom game options.
Yeah, but people here were talking about matchmaking and not custom games. And there most modes got personalized loadouts with AAs, kill-streaks with a new fancy name, sprints, a weapon sandbox created around sprint and tunnel like circular level-designs with three paths. So yeah, I understand why people call Halo 4 "CoD with shields"! 🤷‍♂️ ...and frankly I don't disagree!
Don't forget Flinch, Grenade Indicators and Kill Cams.
Naqser wrote:
PS: H4 was not a CoD clone, just a hodge of dissonant design decisions corrected by a few switches in the custom game options.
Yeah, but people here were talking about matchmaking and not custom games. And there most modes got personalized loadouts with AAs, kill-streaks with a new fancy name, sprints, a weapon sandbox created around sprint and tunnel like circular level-designs with three paths. So yeah, I understand why people call Halo 4 "CoD with shields"! 🤷‍♂️ ...and frankly I don't disagree!
Don't forget Flinch, Grenade Indicators and Kill Cams.
And no de-scope....
Now that I look back, I think I worded it wrong when I said that people didn’t like WW2. However, it wasn’t better than WaW for example. It sold well because the older CoD fans saw that it went back to their roots, and the little kids saw a new CoD, which meant it’d sell well for sure.
Wait, what's the point here exactly? I really don't understand what you're comparing. Based on sales WW2 did a lot better than WaW, didn't it? Also the second one is often described to be among the least liked games of the series by the CoD community, while I saw WW2 getting praised a lot (until Activision greed ruined it with yet another gambling mechanic that is).

So is the comparison about sales, population, popularity...? I really don't follow you here mate! 😅

You can’t actually use Doom as an example for a game with no advanced movement, because when you try walking, it feels like you’re still sprinting without actually sprinting.
Ehm, yes we can? I mean, you're describing exactly why we're using DOOM as an example in first place! Halo 1 to 3 did exactly that -> you were sprinting with your gun up and without using an additional button to reach max speed. So what are we talking about?

And for the why it doesn't FEEL like you're running (at least in H3 and partially in H2) it was explained many times before as well. FOV in primis. Which is also why we're using DOOM as an example: it's a modern shooter with the move-set we desire for Halo, but without the technical issues from past Bungie entries.

So sorry if your statement baffles me to say the least, but it means you didn't got our point and reasoning at all! 😐

As for Microsoft having every reason to go for classic gameplay, they don’t. They have every reason, though, to appeal to both old and new players.
Fine by me, but like I asked you before without getting an answer: how is this compromise going to look like?
Agree on all points. Especially DOOM, movement and FoV. Halo with quicker bsm, gun always up and FoV slider would be fine with me. When it comes to FPS games, I was weened on Wofenstein, DOOM and Quake, it's the best option imo. That way we don't need the ability / abilities. I appreciate some like them, so perhaps add them to customs ?
Naqser wrote:
PS: H4 was not a CoD clone, just a hodge of dissonant design decisions corrected by a few switches in the custom game options.
Yeah, but people here were talking about matchmaking and not custom games. And there most modes got personalized loadouts with AAs, kill-streaks with a new fancy name, sprints, a weapon sandbox created around sprint and tunnel like circular level-designs with three paths. So yeah, I understand why people call Halo 4 "CoD with shields"! 🤷‍♂️ ...and frankly I don't disagree!
Don't forget Flinch, Grenade Indicators and Kill Cams.
And no de-scope....
And centered aiming, and the horrendous CoD like button layout as standard. I think we could go on for a while here! 😂
Naqser wrote:
PS: H4 was not a CoD clone, just a hodge of dissonant design decisions corrected by a few switches in the custom game options.
Yeah, but people here were talking about matchmaking and not custom games. And there most modes got personalized loadouts with AAs, kill-streaks with a new fancy name, sprints, a weapon sandbox created around sprint and tunnel like circular level-designs with three paths. So yeah, I understand why people call Halo 4 "CoD with shields"! 🤷‍♂️ ...and frankly I don't disagree!
Don't forget Flinch, Grenade Indicators and Kill Cams.
And no de-scope....
And centered aiming, and the horrendous CoD like button layout as standard. I think we could go on for a while here! 😂
Oh god I forgot about the fish stick control layout rofl
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