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SBMM - Why it is both good and bad

OP HaloBungie343I

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Tetrafy wrote:
Tetrafy wrote:
SBMM is terribly implmented and always should be lightened in social. It has killed the cod community look at cold war everyone is quiting. Devs should look at theatest data you are making people quit because games aren't fun anymore. People play ranked if they want to rank up. You want people to take ranked seeious inplement it like h3 rank add inheritor ranks specific to ranked. Lower sbmm I dont need to play pros every other game in social. The rankjng system in h5 is terrible. It should be w/l only. You should be allowed to play in a to4 without being punished.
That's how H5 system is already?
Except you can't search 4s? And you never match all onyx. There will 100 percent be all onyx players on youll get 1 and a dimond and two gold like every game even searching as champs. Ive lost 10 csr for dropping 20kills and 5 deaths because I get matched with plats and golds that go neg 15. But Ill play in 4s alll night play 20 games and only get 20 csr its stupid.
was just referring to the bold and italicized portion of your statement.

I also share the same sediment in regards to matchmaking criteria in some regard...didnt know you couldn search in a team of 4 though...that kind of seems off/wrong.
You can but you only get 1 csr per game if you have either high onyx or champ on your team unless you play top tiers because generally it matches solo champs with like golds which is insane imo. We used to have striahgt onyx games now it never happens.
Tetrafy wrote:
Tetrafy wrote:
Tetrafy wrote:
SBMM is terribly implmented and always should be lightened in social. It has killed the cod community look at cold war everyone is quiting. Devs should look at theatest data you are making people quit because games aren't fun anymore. People play ranked if they want to rank up. You want people to take ranked seeious inplement it like h3 rank add inheritor ranks specific to ranked. Lower sbmm I dont need to play pros every other game in social. The rankjng system in h5 is terrible. It should be w/l only. You should be allowed to play in a to4 without being punished.
That's how H5 system is already?
Except you can't search 4s? And you never match all onyx. There will 100 percent be all onyx players on youll get 1 and a dimond and two gold like every game even searching as champs. Ive lost 10 csr for dropping 20kills and 5 deaths because I get matched with plats and golds that go neg 15. But Ill play in 4s alll night play 20 games and only get 20 csr its stupid.
was just referring to the bold and italicized portion of your statement.

I also share the same sediment in regards to matchmaking criteria in some regard...didnt know you couldn search in a team of 4 though...that kind of seems off/wrong.
You can but you only get 1 csr per game if you have either high onyx or champ on your team unless you play top tiers because generally it matches solo champs with like golds which is insane imo. We used to have striahgt onyx games now it never happens.
That’s a population problem more than likely.
Tetrafy wrote:
Tetrafy wrote:
Tetrafy wrote:
SBMM is terribly implmented and always should be lightened in social. It has killed the cod community look at cold war everyone is quiting. Devs should look at theatest data you are making people quit because games aren't fun anymore. People play ranked if they want to rank up. You want people to take ranked seeious inplement it like h3 rank add inheritor ranks specific to ranked. Lower sbmm I dont need to play pros every other game in social. The rankjng system in h5 is terrible. It should be w/l only. You should be allowed to play in a to4 without being punished.
That's how H5 system is already?
Except you can't search 4s? And you never match all onyx. There will 100 percent be all onyx players on youll get 1 and a dimond and two gold like every game even searching as champs. Ive lost 10 csr for dropping 20kills and 5 deaths because I get matched with plats and golds that go neg 15. But Ill play in 4s alll night play 20 games and only get 20 csr its stupid.
was just referring to the bold and italicized portion of your statement.

I also share the same sediment in regards to matchmaking criteria in some regard...didnt know you couldn search in a team of 4 though...that kind of seems off/wrong.
You can but you only get 1 csr per game if you have either high onyx or champ on your team unless you play top tiers because generally it matches solo champs with like golds which is insane imo. We used to have striahgt onyx games now it never happens.
That’s a population problem more than likely.
Oh for sure it is. But wouldnt you fix your ranking system to match the population you dont have? And the 4s thing has always been an issue theyve admitted thats how it works. But its like kinda crazy considering it's a team game. You shouldnt get punished for playing in groups of 4. It isnt Halo whos the best solo que player in the pkaylist. Who are the best teams. The guys at the top aremt actually always the best.
Darwi wrote:
GRNT WRK wrote:
So you think me having a problem with getting menked everytime I play social makes me sweaty?
Take a day off dude.
Isn't that like, one of the definitions of sweaty?
Clearly you don't understand the definition of sweaty then.

Again, I have to try less searching ranked and you think that makes sense?
Tetrafy wrote:
Tetrafy wrote:
Tetrafy wrote:
Tetrafy wrote:
SBMM is terribly implmented and always should be lightened in social. It has killed the cod community look at cold war everyone is quiting. Devs should look at theatest data you are making people quit because games aren't fun anymore. People play ranked if they want to rank up. You want people to take ranked seeious inplement it like h3 rank add inheritor ranks specific to ranked. Lower sbmm I dont need to play pros every other game in social. The rankjng system in h5 is terrible. It should be w/l only. You should be allowed to play in a to4 without being punished.
That's how H5 system is already?
Except you can't search 4s? And you never match all onyx. There will 100 percent be all onyx players on youll get 1 and a dimond and two gold like every game even searching as champs. Ive lost 10 csr for dropping 20kills and 5 deaths because I get matched with plats and golds that go neg 15. But Ill play in 4s alll night play 20 games and only get 20 csr its stupid.
was just referring to the bold and italicized portion of your statement.

I also share the same sediment in regards to matchmaking criteria in some regard...didnt know you couldn search in a team of 4 though...that kind of seems off/wrong.
You can but you only get 1 csr per game if you have either high onyx or champ on your team unless you play top tiers because generally it matches solo champs with like golds which is insane imo. We used to have striahgt onyx games now it never happens.
That’s a population problem more than likely.
Oh for sure it is. But wouldnt you fix your ranking system to match the population you dont have? And the 4s thing has always been an issue theyve admitted thats how it works. But its like kinda crazy considering it's a team game. You shouldnt get punished for playing in groups of 4. It isnt Halo whos the best solo que player in the pkaylist. Who are the best teams. The guys at the top aremt actually always the best.
Agree 100% ...it should always be matched according to the closest available KDA (in slayer modes). The rank system in H5 is based on W/L. If you go to the leaderboards you can see that there are crazy KDA’s 1.5+ and then there’s a few with barely over 1+ but their win loss records are what got them to champion ranks.

it’s also a tough balancing act of matching a game in a reasonable time frame as well. I’m a solo player so I know the pain of getting placed terribly but I also am aware there are games where I just get stomped out.
GRNT WRK wrote:
Darwi wrote:
GRNT WRK wrote:
So you think me having a problem with getting menked everytime I play social makes me sweaty?
Take a day off dude.
Isn't that like, one of the definitions of sweaty?
Clearly you don't understand the definition of sweaty then.

Again, I have to try less searching ranked and you think that makes sense?
According to Websters' the definition of sweaty is "someone who gets upset when they are called sweaty".

* Apologies. Xmas silly season.
Tetrafy wrote:
Tetrafy wrote:
Tetrafy wrote:
Tetrafy wrote:
SBMM is terribly implmented and always should be lightened in social. It has killed the cod community look at cold war everyone is quiting. Devs should look at theatest data you are making people quit because games aren't fun anymore. People play ranked if they want to rank up. You want people to take ranked seeious inplement it like h3 rank add inheritor ranks specific to ranked. Lower sbmm I dont need to play pros every other game in social. The rankjng system in h5 is terrible. It should be w/l only. You should be allowed to play in a to4 without being punished.
That's how H5 system is already?
Except you can't search 4s? And you never match all onyx. There will 100 percent be all onyx players on youll get 1 and a dimond and two gold like every game even searching as champs. Ive lost 10 csr for dropping 20kills and 5 deaths because I get matched with plats and golds that go neg 15. But Ill play in 4s alll night play 20 games and only get 20 csr its stupid.
was just referring to the bold and italicized portion of your statement.

I also share the same sediment in regards to matchmaking criteria in some regard...didnt know you couldn search in a team of 4 though...that kind of seems off/wrong.
You can but you only get 1 csr per game if you have either high onyx or champ on your team unless you play top tiers because generally it matches solo champs with like golds which is insane imo. We used to have striahgt onyx games now it never happens.
That’s a population problem more than likely.
Oh for sure it is. But wouldnt you fix your ranking system to match the population you dont have? And the 4s thing has always been an issue theyve admitted thats how it works. But its like kinda crazy considering it's a team game. You shouldnt get punished for playing in groups of 4. It isnt Halo whos the best solo que player in the pkaylist. Who are the best teams. The guys at the top aremt actually always the best.
Agree 100% ...it should always be matched according to the closest available KDA (in slayer modes). The rank system in H5 is based on W/L. If you go to the leaderboards you can see that there are crazy KDA’s 1.5+ and then there’s a few with barely over 1+ but their win loss records are what got them to champion ranks.

it’s also a tough balancing act of matching a game in a reasonable time frame as well. I’m a solo player so I know the pain of getting placed terribly but I also am aware there are games where I just get stomped out.
I can see why they went for W/L. It's a team game and it's the simplest metric.

On an individual basis I remember huge debates about K vs D vs A.

Do you simply look at raw K?. Or the K/D?. How do you reward A? It's confusing.

Going 15-10 contributes the same to the win as someone going 10-5... ie. +5 points. After all if everyone goes +1 then you are guaranteed the win by 4 points! But the first player only has a K:D of 1.5 vs the second player's 2.0

We've all seen plenty of K:D farmers out there. Those who have little interest in playing the team game. Happy to eke out their small scores regardless of the result. They pride themselves on finishing 6-2 but overall hurt the team's chance of winning as they joyfully let the enemy acquire all the power ups and weapons etc.

And what about those A's. We know they contribute a lot to the team's chances of winning.

And my own personal vent is that not all D are the same either. I pride myself on taking out enemy camo players... or those with power weapons. I willingly sacrifice myself to end their run (the classic is standing there with a sticky nade to end an enemies sword spree). But on the stat sheet it's just a 'D'. And similarly... if someone does something silly, like blow themselves up with a rocket launcher, that D hurts more because it often gives over the weapon to the opposition. But anyway, it's unrealistic to fix such things.

W/L is easy.
Darwi wrote:
GRNT WRK wrote:
Darwi wrote:
GRNT WRK wrote:
So you think me having a problem with getting menked everytime I play social makes me sweaty?
Take a day off dude.
Isn't that like, one of the definitions of sweaty?
Clearly you don't understand the definition of sweaty then.

Again, I have to try less searching ranked and you think that makes sense?
According to Websters' the definition of sweaty is "someone who gets upset when they are called sweaty".

* Apologies. Xmas silly season.
But I don't have a problem with being called sweaty. I can for sure play like a sweat. I very much enjoy it. Point is that I don't always want to play like that. That's why you have ranked playlists.

Due to having sbmm in social you actually punish better players because players at that skill level aren't all in one spot. Instead of putting you in a game with low ping you get paired with players from all over.
Right now trying to search solo social is like pulling teeth. I either get people who can't go positive while for some reason playing against stacked teams, or I am shooting marshmallows at people. It's not fun. Back in halo 3 you could search social and have a blast playing all night.

Happy Holidays.
"As far back as CoD Ghosts"
Due to having sbmm in social you actually punish better players because players at that skill level aren't all in one spot. Instead of putting you in a game with low ping you get paired with players from all over. This is the most important part right here.
SBMM was in gaming for a long time (since H2, in fact) and almost every multiplayer game to date has some version of the system in place. What really has people all riled up is COD Black Ops: Cold War's approach to the system. How H2 approached SBMM (and how most games utilize it) is by finding the best match based upon your overall stats. The approach that Cold War took, however, was that it would find the best match based upon your stats from the previous one. So if you end up doing well in a match, in the next one you will be matched with people way above your skill level, which essentially encourages players to not do well in matches.
SBMM was in gaming for a long time (since H2, in fact) and almost every multiplayer game to date has some version of the system in place. What really has people all riled up is COD Black Ops: Cold War's approach to the system. How H2 approached SBMM (and how most games utilize it) is by finding the best match based upon your overall stats. The approach that Cold War took, however, was that it would find the best match based upon your stats from the previous one. So if you end up doing well in a match, in the next one you will be matched with people way above your skill level, which essentially encourages players to not do well in matches.
Yep. The debate shouldn't be over to SBMM or not SBMM.

That's just silly.

It should be - how do we customise SBMM in this particular playlist to maximise the experience.
Honestly, it's pretty simple.

In Unranked matches, prioritize connection and matchmaking speed over anything. Only apply ELO softly, to keep highly advanced players away from kinderspartans.

In Ranked, DON'T use ELO to match players, especially if you plan on having seasonal rank resets. Instead match players on their CURRENT RANK in that playlist, and treat the medal tiers like actual divisions. Players in Silver should be matching players in Silver, not players in Onyx. For teams generally match based on the highest ranked player in the team.
Darwi wrote:
SBMM was in gaming for a long time (since H2, in fact) and almost every multiplayer game to date has some version of the system in place. What really has people all riled up is COD Black Ops: Cold War's approach to the system. How H2 approached SBMM (and how most games utilize it) is by finding the best match based upon your overall stats. The approach that Cold War took, however, was that it would find the best match based upon your stats from the previous one. So if you end up doing well in a match, in the next one you will be matched with people way above your skill level, which essentially encourages players to not do well in matches.
Yep. The debate shouldn't be over to SBMM or not SBMM.

That's just silly.

It should be - how do we customise SBMM in this particular playlist to maximise the experience.
Aka loose like every game prior to Halo 5 was. Same with cod in social it was light restrictions. Bo2.
Fos Kuvol wrote:
Honestly, it's pretty simple.

In Unranked matches, prioritize connection and matchmaking speed over anything. Only apply ELO softly, to keep highly advanced players away from kinderspartans.

In Ranked, DON'T use ELO to match players, especially if you plan on having seasonal rank resets. Instead match players on their CURRENT RANK in that playlist, and treat the medal tiers like actual divisions. Players in Silver should be matching players in Silver, not players in Onyx. For teams generally match based on the highest ranked player in the team.
That's what I think would work.
Bottom line is that any system is only as good as it's population.

I'm sure the H5 algorithm isn't trying to put Onyx in a team of Silvers. It's just that at that point that was the best it could do in regards to time restraints and connection quality.

It's a moot point asking for low latency matches of silver players vs silver players if there aren't enough silver players around.

I don't necessarily have a problem with mixed teams as long as the teams are matched and the players perform as advertised. In my last three games alone - all losses - I have gone +1 while those ranked 'above' me have gone nearly -30. And that doesn't include the 'unranked' team-mate who went -11 in one game.

But anyway, hopefully Halo Infinite will be successful, and match-making will have no problem serving up evenly matched players on good connections.
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