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So, how long do you think AR starts will last?

OP Fos Kuvol

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I couldn't help but notice that all of the gameplay in the multiplayer reveal appeared to be AR starts.

Considering Halo's history with AR starts, that being it only works if the Magnum is a competent utility weapon, how long do you think it will be before the community pushes for BR starts to become the norm?

The Sidekick is no CE/5 Magnum, so I really don't think it will be that long.
AR starts is honestly my favorite way to play Halo so hopefully forever.
If the ARs have enough meat to them and stay capable of being reliable I'd hope they could keep them as a start weapon. Maybe it will be set to certain modes or maps when it launches but id for one be happy to move away from the BR is only viable weapon meta.
Easy,

One playlist for AR starts
Another for BR starts.
AR starts is honestly my favorite way to play Halo so hopefully forever.
Same. I have LONG ago grown tired of the same old scoped rifle trading back and forth.
Hopefully not long but that depends on how the pistol is. It seems pretty good but fires fast so I don't seeing it being a powerful primary. I was fine with AR starts in H4/Reach only because of the pistol.
I hope forever tbh, I love Auto-slayer on MCC. I’ve always despised BR starts, not because it’s a bad weapon, but because it breaks the sandbox. Why pick up other weapons and make fun/practical combos if you spawn with most people’s “go to” primary weapon.

the beauty in AR starts is really more social for me. I’m more inclined to play with everything else if I don’t have a BR because most things have more killing potential but having the AR be viable is also important.

BR starts also increase playing at a range instead of being close and it makes getting close super difficult. If BR starts are the norm, I hope it stays to ranked/arena playlists and out of social/slayer playlists
With any luck it won't last past the flighting. You can make both the AR/Sidekick as good as you want, but having a proper ranged weapon off spawn is a necessity.

How many times do we have to learn the same lesson? I don't want to be forced to play ranked just to get a functional starting loadout. I have no special attachment to the BR, but it has remained remarkably unchanged in terms of core design, which has always been a versatile, skill based headshot weapon which makes it the ideal starting weapon given what we know about the Infinite sandbox so far. The Halo community figured this out almost 20 years ago, due to the quirks of Halo's design respawning players need to be able to defend themselves from a variety of threats otherwise games snowball into one sided stomps. Every time auto starts have been tried, "BR" starts(or otherwise similar weapons) always come back to take the dominant spot if they were not already an option at launch.

Versatile precision weapon starts are how Halo is meant to be played, auto starts(give or take a short range pistol) have never ever "worked." People who support auto starts do not understand Halo and do not understand the issues with the sandboxes of prior games. The auto starts only ever "worked" for them because literally no one in those lobby's know what they are doing
Depends on the quality of the Pistol. A garbage secondary option Magnum will lead to more teams getting spawn trapped within an AR starts mode. I sure hope they bring back a deadly accurate 5-shot magnum with a competitive TTK.
Fos Kuvol wrote:
I couldn't help but notice that all of the gameplay in the multiplayer reveal appeared to be AR starts.

Considering Halo's history with AR starts, that being it only works if the Magnum is a competent utility weapon, how long do you think it will be before the community pushes for BR starts to become the norm?

The Sidekick is no CE/5 Magnum, so I really don't think it will be that long.
This is always an interesting topic however I think we miss the actual problem. In the past we have had the sword, rockets, and sniper being the main "got to have" weapons especially for casual players outside of the Battle Rifle. If you can put interesting weapons that are balanced and worth picking up around the map then this conversation changes because you feel rewarded having the other guns.

All of the weapons they have shown have displayed a uniqueness to each individual weapon. This is incredibly important. It's kind of like in a Battle Royale when you get a weapon that is good, but not great. You want the better weapon however you don't feel like you are being penalized having a capable weapon. I personally love starting with a BR however if I can get a gun that is slightly better or the same caliber of usefulness I am not going to realize I don't have one that often.
Depends entirely on how capable the AR is, as well as the Sidekick. If these two weapons are low in traditional-lethality and power, BR-starts will be the way to go for most competitive playlists. However, I don't think 343 have ever made an AR or Pistol that felt weak. If these starting weapons are powerful (but of course, not too much so), then AR-starts will serve the game just fine.

H5 was a great example, although I do think the AR/Pistol were overtuned in that game (your spawning weapons should be *slightly* weaker than the BR, to promote scavenging off the map) and so, should have been nerfed slightly. H3 is an example of a game that needed BR-starts for competitive. You need somewhat capable spawning weapons to break out of spawn-traps and control the map. The H3AR/Magnum did not serve this role well (the H3 Magnum is one of the most unreliable weapons in the history of the franchise, the AR wasn't a skillful precision weapon, and was severely let down by the game's netcode), so all comp playlists spawned with BRs.

It also probably doesn't help that the gunplay did not feel particularly satisfying regarding these two weapons in H3 (especially compared to other guns like the BR), so people didn't enjoy AR starts. I doubt that will be a problem for Infinite, judging from the footage. The gunplay looks pretty crisp regarding both of those weapons.

Tldr; depends on how good/bad the spawning weapons are (and also how satisfying they are to use).
WerepyreND wrote:
With any luck it won't last past the flighting. You can make both the AR/Sidekick as good as you want, but having a proper ranged weapon off spawn is a necessity.

How many times do we have to learn the same lesson? I don't want to be forced to play ranked just to get a functional starting loadout. I have no special attachment to the BR, but it has remained remarkably unchanged in terms of core design, which has always been a versatile, skill based headshot weapon which makes it the ideal starting weapon given what we know about the Infinite sandbox so far. The Halo community figured this out almost 20 years ago, due to the quirks of Halo's design respawning players need to be able to defend themselves from a variety of threats otherwise games snowball into one sided stomps. Every time auto starts have been tried, "BR" starts(or otherwise similar weapons) always come back to take the dominant spot if they were not already an option at launch.

Versatile precision weapon starts are how Halo is meant to be played, auto starts(give or take a short range pistol) have never ever "worked." People who support auto starts do not understand Halo and do not understand the issues with the sandboxes of prior games. The auto starts only ever "worked" for them because literally no one in those lobby's know what they are doing
Completely support this, mostly for all ranked variants and BTB. Nothing is more frustrating then feeling that you first need to find a weapon to be able to sufficiently engage in fights.
AR and sidekick will probably be the starting load out on social arena matches though. Hard to judge how this will effect the dynamic of matches, also considering the open layout of those maps (bazaar for example). I would still want to scavenge a commando/BR asap tbh
I think the AR in this game has a larger effective range and utility than traditionally it has in the past. I believe AR/ Sidekick starts will last, however BR starts will be the norm for competitive settings.
AR and BR starts are my favourite so if I have to pick between the two I’m hoping AR starts stay. Depending on how strong the AR is however may see it change from a starting weapon to a map pickup.

always enjoyed the Halo games where the AR has a decent TTK, other than Reach the AR has been weaker than previous titles.
Im sure AR starts will be changed to some medium range scoped weapon like it usually is.
Maybe there will be an option for precision slayer and normal slayer like mcc.
I hope forever tbh, I love Auto-slayer on MCC. I’ve always despised BR starts, not because it’s a bad weapon, but because it breaks the sandbox. Why pick up other weapons and make fun/practical combos if you spawn with most people’s “go to” primary weapon.

the beauty in AR starts is really more social for me. I’m more inclined to play with everything else if I don’t have a BR because most things have more killing potential but having the AR be viable is also important.

BR starts also increase playing at a range instead of being close and it makes getting close super difficult. If BR starts are the norm, I hope it stays to ranked/arena playlists and out of social/slayer playlists
This. BR starts destroys the sandbox making a lot of the weapons on the map seem unappealing to pick up. Why look for pick ups if you start off with an already viable weapon that's only outclassed by power weapons? AR starts is the best way to play Halo.
My main issue with precision weapon starts is that it almost defeats the purpose of putting things like the AR, BR, Carbine etc. on the map.

If we keep the pistol I hope they range it in a little bit, I think its effective range of use is far too large for a weapon off spawn.
If you look at a DMR and think to yourself, no I think the weapon I spawned with is better, something's wrong.
Fos Kuvol wrote:
I couldn't help but notice that all of the gameplay in the multiplayer reveal appeared to be AR starts.

Considering Halo's history with AR starts, that being it only works if the Magnum is a competent utility weapon, how long do you think it will be before the community pushes for BR starts to become the norm?

The Sidekick is no CE/5 Magnum, so I really don't think it will be that long.
It's probably a bit early to be looking at the weapon starts, the footage we have seen so far will be custom games done to showcase the game and probably isn't balanced particularly well yet. That said I prefer AR starts.
This. BR starts destroys the sandbox making a lot of the weapons on the map seem unappealing to pick up. Why look for pick ups if you start off with an already viable weapon that's only outclassed by power weapons? AR starts is the best way to play Halo.
BR starts(or any other utility start) have never "destroyed" the sandbox. There has only been a small subsection of the sandbox that contained numerous boring redundant clone weapons that were bad at their jobs.

The weapons on the map need to be appealing on their own merits, not just be pure upgrades over spawning weapons. Auto starts, give or take short range pistol, only "work" when no one in the lobby knows what they are doing, otherwise games devolve in a one sided pub stomp where fresh respawns can't do anything about players with long ranged weapons and are helpless against close range oriented power weapons. Its hilariously easy to predict what a fresh respawn will do when they are stuck with close range weapon. Either A.) They stick to close range paths on the map, which makes it easy to predict where they will come from. or B.) They rush for the handful of range capable weapons on the map and their teammates are still stuck with nothing effectively resulting in a 3V4(at best) scenario.

Trying to take the BR(or whatever the resident precision weapon is) out of the equation doesn't make the sandbox better if it is still loaded with redundant clone weapons with nothing unique to offer. At best you end up with prettier light show of players running around spraying their assorted bullet hoses.
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