Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

Take Promethean's out of the game

OP wadehamilton

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I really hope Halo Infinite completely gets rid of promethean's. They are the lamest enemy to fight in all the halo games (including the flood). Not only is it not fun to shoot them, it's not fun to get shot at by them.

Let's break it down by enemy:

-Crawlers: mini possessed demon dogs that they fire shots which autolock onto you and you can't dodge. If 5+ crawlers lock onto with their auto aim you don't even have an opportunity to dodge the shots, or find cover.
-Watchers: You essentially have to kill the watchers first otherwise they'll heal/shield other prometheans. This takes all creativity out your gameplay/strategy. It's the game telling you "shoot this first, then shoot that - you don't get an option."
-Soldiers: This is a teleporting piece of sheet metal. Most games ill just pump shots into soldiers and be bored out of my mind. There's no real indication of how close to dead they are until they completely lose their "shield" and are 1 hit. This is different to elite's/other enemies where you can see their health deteriorate. It honestly feels like I'm just shooting a wall. In addition, they often teleport randomly in a fight, which completely stops any action and you just have to sit there like an idiot waiting for them to go to their final destination then start the fight again. This creates the same effect armor lock had which everyone hated. Stopping the action.
-Knights: Again I feel like I'm just shooting a metal wall. I know these are suppose to be comparable to hunter's, but it just doesn't feel the same. I know they have weak points but it doesn't feel like any shots are worth while/hurting them. There's not enough animations that you're damage is meaningful.
-Warden: I think these are the only somewhat decent enemies to fight. It's fun when they chase you down with a sword and you have to get away, or shoot an EMP pulse at your vehicle you can try to dodge.

Let's break it down by weapon you can use:
-Boltshot: Poor man's pistol (even though you don't have to aim it, it's less effective)
-Supressor: Poor man's assault rifle (less effective), you have to wait 5 hours for it to speed up in shot
-Scattershot: Poor man's shotgun - useless weapon
-Binary Rifle: Poor man's sniper rifle - less effective than actual sniper/beam rifle as your position/aim is given away.
-Incineration Cannon: The only decent comparison to a spartan's weapon (Rockets)

So in conclusion: Promethean's are teleporting sheets of metal that autolock on to you with their shots, and have virtually useless weapons. 343 please take the promethean's out. Shooting at them isn't fun. Getting shot by them isn't fun.

Please bring back the brutes - they were/are the funnest of all enemies to fight. Hell even bring back the flood at this point.

Did I miss anything?
I'm with you on swapping them with brutes. I never like the prometheans or the art style of them and the forerunner architecture under 343.

Bring in the Banished and get rid of the prometheans. But given how this game is a continuation from H5 the Prometheans will likely be back with the Cortana threat.
I really hope Halo Infinite completely gets rid of promethean's. They are the lamest enemy to fight in all the halo games (including the flood). Not only is it not fun to shoot them, it's not fun to get shot at by them.

Let's break it down by enemy:-Crawlers: mini possessed demon dogs that they fire shots which autolock onto you and you can't dodge. If 5+ crawlers lock onto with their auto aim you don't even have an opportunity to dodge the shots, or find cover.
-Watchers: You essentially have to kill the watchers first otherwise they'll heal/shield other prometheans. This takes all creativity out your gameplay/strategy. It's the game telling you "shoot this first, then shoot that - you don't get an option."
-Soldiers: This is a teleporting piece of sheet metal. Most games ill just pump shots into soldiers and be bored out of my mind. There's no real indication of how close to dead they are until they completely lose their "shield" and are 1 hit. This is different to elite's/other enemies where you can see their health deteriorate. It honestly feels like I'm just shooting a wall. In addition, they often teleport randomly in a fight, which completely stops any action and you just have to sit there like an idiot waiting for them to go to their final destination then start the fight again. This creates the same effect armor lock had which everyone hated. Stopping the action.
-Knights: Again I feel like I'm just shooting a metal wall. I know these are suppose to be comparable to hunter's, but it just doesn't feel the same. I know they have weak points but it doesn't feel like any shots are worth while/hurting them. There's not enough animations that you're damage is meaningful.
-Warden: I think these are the only somewhat decent enemies to fight. It's fun when they chase you down with a sword and you have to get away, or shoot an EMP pulse at your vehicle you can try to dodge.

Let's break it down by weapon you can use:-Boltshot: Poor man's pistol (even though you don't have to aim it, it's less effective)
-Supressor: Poor man's assault rifle (less effective), you have to wait 5 hours for it to speed up in shot
-Scattershot: Poor man's shotgun - useless weapon
-Binary Rifle: Poor man's sniper rifle - less effective than actual sniper/beam rifle as your position/aim is given away.
-Incineration Cannon: The only decent comparison to a spartan's weapon (Rockets)

So in conclusion: Promethean's are teleporting sheets of metal that autolock on to you with their shots, and have virtually useless weapons. 343 please take the promethean's out. Shooting at them isn't fun. Getting shot by them isn't fun.

Please bring back the brutes - they were/are the funnest of all enemies to fight. Hell even bring back the flood at this point.

Did I miss anything?
My question to you is why are you using a smurf account to post?! Did your main account get banned for pointless thread posting?

Two giant questions come to mind; change is bad and its bad so get rid of it... If its bad then correct the flaw, don't remove completely.
Even though I didn't like them, I'm not sure if it's a good idea taking them out of the game because then I might be worried that the story could make sense then unless we know what happens to them.
Gears had the same problem, they introduced scrap metal enemies, which were boring to fight against, didn't add anything interesting to the game and in addition were annoying as well because of the terrible sound design behind them. However, Gears5 managed to turn the cards on the table by making them something that actually did fit in the universe and was fun to fight against. Even the sound-design added a creepy factor that was befitting for the series!

The Coalition couldn't take them out either though, but they managed to make the best out of a bad situation. Now I'm even a fan of infested DeeBees! Hate the OG ones with a passion still, but damn me if that wasn't a nice turn around!

343i is in the same boat: there is no way Prometheans aren't in the game, but the community hate to fight them so they can't keep them like they're now either. Imho they need to find new niche for every class first, so that they make sense on a story level while still being a nice and fresh addition on the battlefield. Than something has to happen, something to spin the concept completely around and transform them into something the community actually wants to fight against!
I highly doubt that prometheans are in halo infinite, itll probably be other types of forerunner things and covenant type enemies like always but i doubt itll be forerunner, the game just has that feel to it with everything official thats come out so i dont think it will be anything like recent games with enemies.
The Brutes were bullet sponges, how were they the most fun to fight? I'd rather have Brutes and Prometheans. Both could be re-tooled. This community needs to get past the knee-jerk "JUST THROW IT AWAY!" mindset which they inevitably whine about later when things do get cut.
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The Brutes were bullet sponges, how were they the most fun to fight? I'd rather have Brutes and Prometheans. Both could be re-tooled. This community needs to get past the knee-jerk "JUST THROW IT AWAY!" mindset which they inevitably whine about later when things do get cut.
In what game were brutes bullet sponges? Only chieftains, but 1 of those 2 varieties can get backsmacked and the other is easy to noob combo. 2, 3 and Reach brutes were fair. Main spongey enemies in Bungie halo were Reach elites and hunters.
Prometheans is 343’s creation so they won’t be taking them out. I liked when it was just the covenant and the flood too.
I don't want them removed but I do want an overhaul in their gameplay and visuals.
I hate the Flood more than Prometheans tbh. Unless you want to make it really hard on yourself all you need to do is just grab a shotgun and mow them down, meleeing the occasional infection form here or there (Note that I'm a normal or heroic difficulty player, legendary may be different. I wouldn't know). Extremely boring. Maybe my opinion would change if most of the levels that featured the Flood weren't the most repetitive and boring levels in franchise history but until that day comes I'll stand by it.
Prometheans cannot be taken out of Halo, now. The story needs them. What could be done to improve them is to:

A) Re-introduce wall running for the Crawlers. I thought this was kind of neat.

B) No, or VERY obvious, power weapon holding for the Crawlers.

C) Replace the teleport mechanic that the Knights and Soldiers have with the ball shown in the GDC talk linked below (at 31:56). This would make it so that the Knights and Soldiers no longer have times of invulnerability.

https://gdcvault.com/play/1017935/The-Design-of-New-Enemies
Quote:
The Brutes were bullet sponges, how were they the most fun to fight? I'd rather have Brutes and Prometheans. Both could be re-tooled. This community needs to get past the knee-jerk "JUST THROW IT AWAY!" mindset which they inevitably whine about later when things do get cut.
In what game were brutes bullet sponges? Only chieftains, but 1 of those 2 varieties can get backsmacked and the other is easy to noob combo. 2, 3 and Reach brutes were fair. Main spongey enemies in Bungie halo were Reach elites and hunters.
Every Halo game they’ve been in, except for Halo Wars. For heavens sake that was an admission by Bungie back when making Halo 3.
I think the main problem with the Prometheans, and the Brutes for that matter, is that they are essentially trying to reinvent the wheel. With the exception of the Watcher, the Crawlers, Soldiers/H4Knights, and H5 Knights are filling a very similar role to the original, Grunt, Elite, Hunter setup(+ Jackals) that we started out with.

That original setup of cannon fodder, leader class, specialist, and big bruisers is such a strong foundation that is hard to really match or surpass. This is why the Flood, at least in CE, works for me because the way they fight you and you them feels very different from the Covenant. Likewise I think the Drones and Skirmishers are probably the most successful of all the new additions as they don't really step on the toes of any existing enemy type.

I like the idea of Watchers as a support unit rather than a direct combatant, it is interesting on paper, but in practice I agree with the criticisms that there real reason not to target them first in every encounter.

Long story short, the Promethean sandbox needs to find its own unique space to occupy that isn't a retread of past ideas. As for what those ideas would be its hard to say, I can't really say I hated either iteration of the Prometheans aside from the Soldier, I just think they need some more refinements.

P.S. One of the reasons the Prometheans feel so bullet spongy is that 343(and post CE Bungie to a lesser degree) are incredibly stingy with ammo. The amount of ammo you can carry in these games is so low that any encounter with Prometheans uses a much greater proportion of ammo than you would if every weapon had CE levels of ammo capacity.
I don't think it's just the ammo count. It's a factor for sure, but even with less bullets a Brute would never feel as spongy as a Promethean Knight.

Let's think about it, technically speaking Halsey ain't wrong: Brutes in H3 are bullet sponges! There is no denying it. And yet go around and ask the community what they think about them, almost anyone would call them sponges. That's because a lot of health for an enemy type is not a bad thing per se. As long as they're well implement and rich with interesting aspect more health can actually be a positive note!

Firstly the obvious factor, it helps that they aren't mecha enemies period. You shoot them, they bleed and flinch like you would expect a Brute would, which gives the player an instant and satisfactory damage indication that floating metal sheet pieces can't give you. Secondly they don't have rechargeable shields, so every bullet counts and you always know how far they're gone thanks to the degrading armor. Also they got weak points and you can take them out with stealth too in many situations. Explosives also are very effective against them, which gives you more combat options.

Fighting against Brutes in general gives you a lot more variety!

A) More complex AI routines with better interaction between races and pathfinding, and
B) They have phases. An angry Brute will give you a different experience than a calm one.

H5 luckily added some of those aspects into Knights already, but it wasn't nearly enough imho. Also all the other Promethean still got the same or at least similar issues H4 had. They need a huge overhaul, a better art direction with less caothic visual cues for the player and way better/varioys AI routines.
I don't want them removed but I do want an overhaul in their gameplay and visuals.
Yeah I agree, I rather they change them up and blame some lore. Like these are new because they came from a new planet.
I would not be against them being in Halo Infinite, but they need to be reworked considerably, in both a design and combat sense. Knights and soldiers need to be less bullet spongey, most of all.

I want the brutes and flood to return as well. That way there would be at least 4 types of enemy factions to mix up the ganeplay scenarios.
Prometheans to me should feel more like WARHAMMER 40K: ELDAR where they are "wizardly" in aspect as the things they do are beyond understanding. Revamping to match this counterpart is key.
  • Warlock (support) class that throws out "spells"... *ahem* Defensive Buff: Hardlight Shields; Healing: Regeneration, Offensive Buff: Gravitational Manipulation, Movement: Teleporter Grid (they should be the ones controlling it not Knights and Soliders RNGing everywhere) etc.
New Aspect: Prometheans would be "buildable" where they could either be single entities like a Knight or Soldiers or reintegrate into something larger, and more powerful. Basically less numbers, more power or less power, more numbers. Having robotic elements is a key aspect to making them more desirable and unique without being spongey.
Promethean's what? TELL US!
I think with some tweaking the Prometheans can be a lot more balanced. Given the current story arc, they can't really just make them go away. They're a rather intricate part of the story, it would be bad writing to just make them poof out of existence.

Some changes I think are in order to make them feel a bit less tedious/boring to fight:

Crawlers: take out the ability to track with homing bolts but give them back the Boltshot's secondary fire mode if they're close (if they use the secondary fire mode, it stuns them for several seconds due to recoil). This way you have to think about getting too close to too many. Crawlers are much easier to take out in Halo 5 (Halo 4 it felt like you could shoot them in the face all day but never get a headshot) as you can now easily pop them in the face and be done with them.

Watchers: Limit the number of Watchers that can be summoned at any given time (unless it's scripted for there to be many). Halo 4's biggest problem with these little buggers is that they were quick, bullet spongey, and quickly dove to cover the moment you shot them even once. This made them very hard to take out, on top of that, Knights would occasionally glitch into 'baby maker' mode and continuously just keep pumping them out non-stop. With their ability to shield allies, it made them top priority to eliminate. The best way to deal with that is to give them the same cool down we have when using the Hardlight Shield. They use it too long, it burns out or damage starts to leak through until it just breaks. In Halo 5 they weren't as tanky, so they are relatively easy to take out, which is nice.

Soldiers: The biggest problem with Soldiers is 1) the inability to see just how damaged they are until their face plate pops open and 2) their non-stop bunny hop. The best way to fix this is adding armor degradation stages for sections of their health pool (example: damage starts to show at 75% health, more at 50%, face plate pops off at 25%), this would help give more reason as to why Watchers feel inclined to repair their armor. As for the other problem; they need a cool down on that bunny hop. It feels like you're wasting ammo shooting at them because they just keep teleporting.

Knights: I don't have much issues with Knights, but the shooting of their wings doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me. I think they should just go back to the shield mechanic. Being able to run them over again would also be nice.
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