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Ten Year Plan

OP Sev808

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Given the fact that H:CEA and H:2A have terrible framerates now and H5 is constantly freezing up after matches, i do not have faith in 343i to pull off anything of a 10 year plan with Infinite. Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen
The same way they keep netflix and hulu relevant. Microsoft wants gamepass to be its primary source of income. So new content that keeps people paying monthly subscriptions. I'd expect things like campaign expansions possibly as well as well as spartan ops either making a return with episodic content or something similar. And probably map pack releases similar to halo5 with only 1 or 2 maps released every couple of months with new weapon variations
Exactly. Microsoft is pushing game pass hard and games will have to adapt.

Infinite won't be the last game to change the way they drop future content.

There is going to be some experimentation here and there. Not all of it will work. But as the platform matures I'm sure it will improve rapidly.
Also, Halo 5 has been out for 5 years now. And how many maps have they added since launch? I still play the same 3 over and over and over again
Darwi wrote:
The same way they keep netflix and hulu relevant. Microsoft wants gamepass to be its primary source of income. So new content that keeps people paying monthly subscriptions. I'd expect things like campaign expansions possibly as well as well as spartan ops either making a return with episodic content or something similar. And probably map pack releases similar to halo5 with only 1 or 2 maps released every couple of months with new weapon variations
Exactly. Microsoft is pushing game pass hard and games will have to adapt.

Infinite won't be the last game to change the way they drop future content.

There is going to be some experimentation here and there. Not all of it will work. But as the platform matures I'm sure it will improve rapidly.
I'm interested to see what they do with perfect dark. If there ever was a game in ms first party catalog that could benefit from 10 years of episodic content. While being fresh and diverse. It's this franchise
I hope Infinite is an amazing game if this 10 year plan is followed.
Sev808 wrote:
The last thing we need right now is another Anthem, another Destiny, another game as a live service. They don't work, they more or less piss off their customers, and it gives studios the idea that they can get away with releasing either an unfinished project or a sub-par project and then when they get flack for it they can fall back on that whole "roadmap" garbage. They also seem to have the nerve to charge full price for these games. With things the way they are, I'm holding onto every penny I got, I have about a 10% chance of buyng a new game. Games need to really impress me now more than ever for me to spend on it.
While I agree we don't need another anthem. I strongly disagree with "games as a live service don't work" rainbow six siege has 60k plus players on just steam alone.
Destiny 2 just broke 240k online at once on steam alone.
And let's not get WoW involved in this.
For those unaware, Rainbow Six Siege was not the intended release of the series, it was Patriots, but apparently that game offended to many people with tiny-heart-syndrome and so a huge amount of people lost their jobs and we ended up with...Siege. A potentially great story was -Yoink--canned for a live-service game. WoW earned its legacy, I have nothing bad to say about it. Though it's been some days since I originally posted this thread, I've thought about something, Destiny 2 is indeed showing greater promise but if Halo is to go this route, I expect more than recycled raids, if you catch my meaning.
I think the "10 year plan" is almost taboo in the game industry at this point. Few games have been successful with such a goal and they are usually very different in scale. So honestly I think it's a knee jerk reaction to be worried when hearing it, and it might have merit.

What I am worried about with a "10 year plan" in Halo, is the very worrying trend of population in the past few Halos. They all had varying drops in population but I feel like 5 and MCC are the most applicable.

MCC started TERRIBLE and went from having a coffen fitted to jumping up and sprinting. I would say this is a good example of how it could be done, but obviously will need more for 10 years.

Halo 5 however had a better start (I am trying to be objective about that) had more frequent updates sooner after release. But unlike with MCC it steadily lost players while MCC has gained. Granted for the first 8 or so months Halo 5s updates were more like finishing the base game.

My worry is if they do the constant updates will it be a gain like MCCs? Or a loss over time like 5s?
I think the "10 year plan" is almost taboo in the game industry at this point. Few games have been successful with such a goal and they are usually very different in scale. So honestly I think it's a knee jerk reaction to be worried when hearing it, and it might have merit.

What I am worried about with a "10 year plan" in Halo, is the very worrying trend of population in the past few Halos. They all had varying drops in population but I feel like 5 and MCC are the most applicable.

MCC started TERRIBLE and went from having a coffen fitted to jumping up and sprinting. I would say this is a good example of how it could be done, but obviously will need more for 10 years.

Halo 5 however had a better start (I am trying to be objective about that) had more frequent updates sooner after release. But unlike with MCC it steadily lost players while MCC has gained. Granted for the first 8 or so months Halo 5s updates were more like finishing the base game.

My worry is if they do the constant updates will it be a gain like MCCs? Or a loss over time like 5s?
They need to keep the players engaged, give them a reason to continue to play the game, and you need to continue to push original and fresh content, no recycling of content. I doubt 343 is capable of doing so, but I would like to be proven wrong. The ONLY games on their resume is Halo 4 and Halo 5. The rest are the works of others and are not counted towards their capabilities as a development studio, they do know how to dish out their license to other companies well though.
Sev808 wrote:
I think the "10 year plan" is almost taboo in the game industry at this point. Few games have been successful with such a goal and they are usually very different in scale. So honestly I think it's a knee jerk reaction to be worried when hearing it, and it might have merit.

What I am worried about with a "10 year plan" in Halo, is the very worrying trend of population in the past few Halos. They all had varying drops in population but I feel like 5 and MCC are the most applicable.

MCC started TERRIBLE and went from having a coffen fitted to jumping up and sprinting. I would say this is a good example of how it could be done, but obviously will need more for 10 years.

Halo 5 however had a better start (I am trying to be objective about that) had more frequent updates sooner after release. But unlike with MCC it steadily lost players while MCC has gained. Granted for the first 8 or so months Halo 5s updates were more like finishing the base game.

My worry is if they do the constant updates will it be a gain like MCCs? Or a loss over time like 5s?
They need to keep the players engaged, give them a reason to continue to play the game, and you need to continue to push original and fresh content, no recycling of content. I doubt 343 is capable of doing so, but I would like to be proven wrong. The ONLY games on their resume is Halo 4 and Halo 5. The rest are the works of others and are not counted towards their capabilities as a development studio, they do know how to dish out their license to other companies well though.
Yeah, I am a little worried that they are more of a sudo publisher at this point. I would also like to have my doubts and fears proven wrong. Ultimately, we are all here hoping to have a good Halo game.
Even though I would like to be optimistic, I cannot see Infinite panning out over a 10 year span. The amount of content required for that would be enormous, not to mention that the game would become severely bloated over time if they introduce large updates & expansions. These would probably cause problems of their own in terms of bugs and server crashes. Ask anyone who's played Destiny 2 about the track record of the servers during large updates/new expansions.
To add to that point, Destiny 2 is running better than ever with all extra stuff vaulted. Loading into destinations is SO much faster; there are fewer visual bugs; different instances rarely need to pause to load; in general the game is running even better than it did on launch day. And this is on a standard Xbox One.

Meanwhile, I tried playing GTA Online a few days ago, and it took TEN (10!!!) minutes to load in. Game Bloat is not something to be taken lightly.
I think I'm in the minority here, but I can see this happen. 343i has been supporting the MCC for 6 years already.
Adding 4 years more to such an ambitious project like Infinite doesn't appear such a stretch IMO.
I think they're going to add massive story expansions every few years and instead of making them their own separate games they'll just add it to Infinite, that's my guess anyway. As for the MP, they're probably going to divide content into seasons like a BR does, have a battle pass and all that. Also just a guess.
Legitsky wrote:
I hope Infinite is an amazing game if this 10 year plan is followed.
SMOK69KMK wrote:
I think I'm in the minority here, but I can see this happen. 343i has been supporting the MCC for 6 years already.
Adding 4 years more to such an ambitious project like Infinite doesn't appear such a stretch IMO.
The 10 year plan offers nothing but bad.

  • Graphics, Performance, & Gameplay Resources

    Considering how much the graphics were struggling in the 2020 demo with bad lighting and pop in as an Xbox One game ported to Xbox Series X, that is a horrible foundation to stretch 10 years over.

    Even if the Xbox One version is eventually dropped, the hardware potential for future content is already capped as the Slipspace Engine has been limited for Xbox One utility first and foremost.

    Let's say they plan a cool gameplay expansion to feature 500 enemies on screen at once for example, they might have been able to do that if the engine was made for the Xbox Series X, but the engine is already limited to outdated Xbox One hardware, so they have to settle with only 30 enemies without remaking the engine.
  • Campaign & Story

    10 years means that instead of getting a proper Halo 7 and Halo 8 campaign, they'll be shoehorned into Halo Infinite.

    It would be like instead of getting Halo 2 and Halo 3, the campaigns were instead story DLCs for Halo CE. It's easy on Microsoft as they save time and resources, but offers the consumers a worse experience.

    It could even detriment the base campaign if it's built with future story expansions in mind. It would be like if Halo CE's campaign stopped at the mission Keyes, years of expansions come out to pad out the story, then we get a highly altered version of the final mission The Maw after 10 years. Developing with a fragmented story in mind leads to the base campaign lacking a structed beginning, middle, and end.
I'm not really confident a game like Halo can sustain itself for 10 years, Halo will always be curated by the developer and content added is ultimately up to them, the reason WoW is so successful after 15+ years is because the world is ever expanding & offers a wide variety of things to do, Counter Strike, TF2 & Quake have held on for so long because the community keeps them alive with community servers and custom content, It'd be cool if mod support was more widely supported in Halo and even encouraged, but I don't see that happening.
When I first heard about the 10 year plan, I was like "wait what?" But then I realized Halo 5 is going to be about 6 years old before Infinite comes out so I'm open to it. Plus I'm curious to see how they keep Halo Infinite feeling fresh.
WerepyreND wrote:
Having a "ten year plan" is pretty empty promise given the uncertainties of development and player reception. Any possible plan more than a year or two out(and even that is pushing it) is nothing but a bare outline that could change or fall apart in an instant.

Given 343's track record between Spartan Ops' lackluster execution, the MCC disaster(which had left for dead until they needed something to market the X1X), and Halo 5's post launch support consisting mostly of content we used to expect out of a Halo game at launch I can't imagine how anyone could give them the benefit of the doubt regarding any long term support for Infinite.

A truly great, content rich game doesn't need to make lofty promises of support because it will either become self-sustaining without developer involvement or it will be in the Dev's best interest to support it long term because of the game's popularity.

I'm incredibly leery of any dev trying to tout years long support and roadmaps before their game has even released(or after an underwhelming release) given many of the recent high profile examples we have had. Square Enix just posted a big loss on an Avengers game which should have been the easiest layup of all time. But hey why build a more traditional action game with with the brand recognition of one of the biggest movie franchises of all time when you could build a dreary "live service" game where the Hulk needs to hunt around for loot.....

Then we have Anthem vanished off the face of the Earth. Fallout 76's continued support seem is more akin to Halo 5 where they are adding the actual Fallout to their Fallout game. You have the odd instance of a miraculous turnaround like FF14 a Realm Reborn or Rainbow Six Siege managing to persevere, but again it was only after 2 years before it ever really took off again. Why should anyone stick around and wait months or even years on the chance that a game might get good eventually?

That all being said I would love for 343 to surprise me, but given the way that 343 and the industry at large has operated the last few years, touting "10 years of support" is more worrying than encouraging. Combined with the decision to go F2P and the radio silence, I am very worried Infinite multiplayer is going to be incredibly bare bones at launch.
they are reusing halo 5 code so all the modes will be more than ready. halo 6 is gonna be an extenstion of halo 5 with an upgrade on their old engine, a different art style and a rebalanced multiplayer.
WerepyreND wrote:
self snip
they are reusing halo 5 code so all the modes will be more than ready. halo 6 is gonna be an extenstion of halo 5 with an upgrade on their old engine, a different art style and a rebalanced multiplayer.
I have no idea why you would assume that. If it were that easy no Halo game would ever have any missing modes because they were all ultimately built off the engine of the previous game with new bells and whistles.
WerepyreND wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
self snip
they are reusing halo 5 code so all the modes will be more than ready. halo 6 is gonna be an extenstion of halo 5 with an upgrade on their old engine, a different art style and a rebalanced multiplayer.
I have no idea why you would assume that. If it were that easy no Halo game would ever have any missing modes because they were all ultimately built off the engine of the previous game with new bells and whistles.
when a mode is designed, it has to be customizable with custom settings for custom games. forge and custom games have been completely rebuilt in each halo. halo infinite is going to copy halo 5's system and expand on it because from a design perspective it was pretty well done.
chris lee said theyre reusing code from halo 5 that saved a lot of time.
WerepyreND wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
self snip
they are reusing halo 5 code so all the modes will be more than ready. halo 6 is gonna be an extenstion of halo 5 with an upgrade on their old engine, a different art style and a rebalanced multiplayer.
I have no idea why you would assume that. If it were that easy no Halo game would ever have any missing modes because they were all ultimately built off the engine of the previous game with new bells and whistles.
when a mode is designed, it has to be customizable with custom settings for custom games. forge and custom games have been completely rebuilt in each halo. halo infinite is going to copy halo 5's system and expand on it because from a design perspective it was pretty well done.
chris lee said theyre reusing code from halo 5 that saved a lot of time.
You are going to need to show me the source for that quote that they straight up copied Halo 5's systems, because that doesn't square with the fact that the Slipspace engine is a major overhaul of the blam engine. They might have the same lineage, but that doesn't mean you can just copy past gamemodes and expect them all to be there at launch, especially given 343's track record. The only set of Halo games where you could realistically claim they "reused" or "copied" any systems from a previous Halo game is going from Halo 4 to Halo 2A and Halo Infinite does not appear to share such a close relationship with Halo 5.
WerepyreND wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
self snip
they are reusing halo 5 code so all the modes will be more than ready. halo 6 is gonna be an extenstion of halo 5 with an upgrade on their old engine, a different art style and a rebalanced multiplayer.
I have no idea why you would assume that. If it were that easy no Halo game would ever have any missing modes because they were all ultimately built off the engine of the previous game with new bells and whistles.
when a mode is designed, it has to be customizable with custom settings for custom games. forge and custom games have been completely rebuilt in each halo. halo infinite is going to copy halo 5's system and expand on it because from a design perspective it was pretty well done.
chris lee said theyre reusing code from halo 5 that saved a lot of time.
You are going to need to show me the source for that quote that they straight up copied Halo 5's systems, because that doesn't square with the fact that the Slipspace engine is a major overhaul of the blam engine. They might have the same lineage, but that doesn't mean you can just copy past gamemodes and expect them all to be there at launch, especially given 343's track record. The only set of Halo games where you could realistically claim they "reused" or "copied" any systems from a previous Halo game is going from Halo 4 to Halo 2A and Halo Infinite does not appear to share such a close relationship with Halo 5.
slipspace is an extension on the blam engine. https://youtu.be/8qqGrIFlgXQ?t=2106
WerepyreND wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
self snip
they are reusing halo 5 code so all the modes will be more than ready. halo 6 is gonna be an extenstion of halo 5 with an upgrade on their old engine, a different art style and a rebalanced multiplayer.
I have no idea why you would assume that. If it were that easy no Halo game would ever have any missing modes because they were all ultimately built off the engine of the previous game with new bells and whistles.
when a mode is designed, it has to be customizable with custom settings for custom games. forge and custom games have been completely rebuilt in each halo. halo infinite is going to copy halo 5's system and expand on it because from a design perspective it was pretty well done.
chris lee said theyre reusing code from halo 5 that saved a lot of time.
You are going to need to show me the source for that quote that they straight up copied Halo 5's systems, because that doesn't square with the fact that the Slipspace engine is a major overhaul of the blam engine. They might have the same lineage, but that doesn't mean you can just copy past gamemodes and expect them all to be there at launch, especially given 343's track record. The only set of Halo games where you could realistically claim they "reused" or "copied" any systems from a previous Halo game is going from Halo 4 to Halo 2A and Halo Infinite does not appear to share such a close relationship with Halo 5.
slipspace is an extension on the blam engine. https://youtu.be/8qqGrIFlgXQ?t=2106
Did you even watch the section you are meant to be using as evidence? Nowhere in that particular talk do say anything that could be construed as just straight up "reusing" code in a way that would allow just easy porting of gamemodes. They only reference Halo 5 in regards to maintaining the "feel" of a Halo game on the Blam! engine from which the slipspace engine is derived.

They can bring things in from Halo 5, but that does not inherently make it quick or easy enough to be able to claim that Halo Infinite will have a full content suite at launch. Likewise there are always some holdovers from previous games, but again that doesn't mean that what we had in one game will necessarily carry over into newer games.

Now of course I would love for Infinite to be a fully featured Halo game at launch, they've certainly had the time where it would be inexcusable for it not to be. But given 343's track record, the development struggles, the F2P transition and the meaningless "ten year plan" do not inspire me with confidence. Again, there is just no good reason to just assume things from Halo 5 can be quickly and easily implemented into Infinite, that could be the case but there isn't really a rational reason to assume so at this juncture.
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