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Peez bring back Bungie, 343!
Bungie made the decision to leave over 10 years ago and they have their own thing now. They're not coming back to Halo
stckrboy wrote:
Peez bring back Bungie, 343!
Bungie made the decision to leave over 10 years ago and they have their own thing now. They're not coming back to Halo
I mean the art style.
Don Fergon wrote:
Yes that's what I meant Genesis, but I can almost bet that it wasn't built by Faber but other guys.
It would be. Faber-of-Will-and-Might was the Master Builder, and Genesis is a planet constructed by the Builders.

It goes against everything that you are taught on the elites in Halo 2.
How, pray tell?

If you're going to go on about them being "clumsy", you're forgetting that Spartans are faster than normal humans, and have a higher reaction time than even that of Sangheili. Cutscenes in Halo 4 and 5 reflect this with the Spartans being more agile and quicker than the Sangheili they oppose.
Don Fergon wrote:
Yes that's what I meant Genesis, but I can almost bet that it wasn't built by Faber but other guys.
It would be. Faber-of-Will-and-Might was the Master Builder, and Genesis is a planet constructed by the Builders.

It goes against everything that you are taught on the elites in Halo 2.
How, pray tell?

If you're going to go on about them being "clumsy", you're forgetting that Spartans are faster than normal humans, and have a higher reaction time than even that of Sangheili. Cutscenes in Halo 4 and 5 reflect this with the Spartans being more agile and quicker than the Sangheili they oppose.
Eh... look at the elites in halo 4 and 5.... vs... elites in halo wars 2. Halo wars 2 corrects the elites. Look at the elites size... their biology... their culture. Almost everything about them is supposed to make them fast. I would say the only halos that actually potray elites as they probably should is halo wars 2 , halo 2 A, and halo reach. And as for spartans... Id say halo wars (1), and halo wars 2, halo legends, and halo 2 A, halo 3, maybe parts of halo 5... maybe. This is all concerning their movement.
You are right that spartans are gmo's and they are augumented with power armor. So they should , theoretically speaking , be way faster than elites. But elites shouldnt be as slow as they were in halo 4 and 5.
Elegant swift warriors ... once called dinos... elites are supposed to mirror predators, velociraptors ... having legs like ostrichs, feet that when clad in armor look like horse hoofs... My point? they are fast.
saifa117 wrote:
Don Fergon wrote:
Yes that's what I meant Genesis, but I can almost bet that it wasn't built by Faber but other guys.
It would be. Faber-of-Will-and-Might was the Master Builder, and Genesis is a planet constructed by the Builders.

It goes against everything that you are taught on the elites in Halo 2.
How, pray tell?

If you're going to go on about them being "clumsy", you're forgetting that Spartans are faster than normal humans, and have a higher reaction time than even that of Sangheili. Cutscenes in Halo 4 and 5 reflect this with the Spartans being more agile and quicker than the Sangheili they oppose.
Eh... look at the elites in halo 4 and 5.... vs... elites in halo wars 2. Halo wars 2 corrects the elites. Look at the elites size... their biology... their culture. Almost everything about them is supposed to make them fast. I would say the only halos that actually potray elites as they probably should is halo wars 2 , halo 2 A, and halo reach. And as for spartans... Id say halo wars (1), and halo wars 2, halo legends, and halo 2 A, halo 3, maybe parts of halo 5... maybe. This is all concerning their movement.
You are right that spartans are gmo's and they are augumented with power armor. So they should , theoretically speaking , be way faster than elites. But elites shouldnt be as slow as they were in halo 4 and 5.
Elegant swift warriors ... once called dinos... elites are supposed to mirror predators, velociraptors ... having legs like ostrichs, feet that when clad in armor look like horse hoofs... My point? they are fast.
Also TRY to imagine an elite in H4 or H5 being Stealthily Deadly. Could you actually imagine an elite from 343 being SILENT?
saifa117 wrote:
Don Fergon wrote:
Yes that's what I meant Genesis, but I can almost bet that it wasn't built by Faber but other guys.
Also TRY to imagine an elite in H4 or H5 being Stealthily Deadly. Could you actually imagine an elite from 343 being SILENT?
Haha... sounds like something hidden xperia would say XD. Absolutely not... in halo4 and 5 they cannot be stealthy. Their helmets literally are like... tank armor thick XD...(except halo wars 2... which is by 343). Never was sure why they would make them like that... I know why they mad them "big baddies" lol... but the helmet is so thick... it makes it hard to cosplay XD.
saifa117 wrote:
saifa117 wrote:
Don Fergon wrote:
Yes that's what I meant Genesis, but I can almost bet that it wasn't built by Faber but other guys.
Also TRY to imagine an elite in H4 or H5 being Stealthily Deadly. Could you actually imagine an elite from 343 being SILENT?
Haha... sounds like something hidden xperia would say XD. Absolutely not... in halo4 and 5 they cannot be stealthy. Their helmets literally are like... tank armor thick XD...(except halo wars 2... which is by 343). Never was sure why they would make them like that... I know why they mad them "big baddies" lol... but the helmet is so thick... it makes it hard to cosplay XD.
Who is that?
saifa117 wrote:
saifa117 wrote:
Don Fergon wrote:
Yes that's what I meant Genesis, but I can almost bet that it wasn't built by Faber but other guys.
Also TRY to imagine an elite in H4 or H5 being Stealthily Deadly. Could you actually imagine an elite from 343 being SILENT?
Haha... sounds like something hidden xperia would say XD. Absolutely not... in halo4 and 5 they cannot be stealthy. Their helmets literally are like... tank armor thick XD...(except halo wars 2... which is by 343). Never was sure why they would make them like that... I know why they mad them "big baddies" lol... but the helmet is so thick... it makes it hard to cosplay XD.
I 100% agree. I died watching his video on this topic when he added the earthquake sounds every time an elite took a step!
saifa117 wrote:
saifa117 wrote:
Don Fergon wrote:
Yes that's what I meant Genesis, but I can almost bet that it wasn't built by Faber but other guys.
Also TRY to imagine an elite in H4 or H5 being Stealthily Deadly. Could you actually imagine an elite from 343 being SILENT?
Haha... sounds like something hidden xperia would say XD. Absolutely not... in halo4 and 5 they cannot be stealthy. Their helmets literally are like... tank armor thick XD...(except halo wars 2... which is by 343). Never was sure why they would make them like that... I know why they mad them "big baddies" lol... but the helmet is so thick... it makes it hard to cosplay XD.
Who is that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LibYtxzg1sg
here is a link to a video by him including the reference by M0hammed
the video is also very relevant to "art style" of halo.
Edit:
Also.. 3:30 for "stealthily deadly"
and 10:05 for the reference made of stomping
saifa117 wrote:
saifa117 wrote:
saifa117 wrote:
Don Fergon wrote:
Yes that's what I meant Genesis, but I can almost bet that it wasn't built by Faber but other guys.
Also TRY to imagine an elite in H4 or H5 being Stealthily Deadly. Could you actually imagine an elite from 343 being SILENT?
Haha... sounds like something hidden xperia would say XD. Absolutely not... in halo4 and 5 they cannot be stealthy. Their helmets literally are like... tank armor thick XD...(except halo wars 2... which is by 343). Never was sure why they would make them like that... I know why they mad them "big baddies" lol... but the helmet is so thick... it makes it hard to cosplay XD.
Who is that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LibYtxzg1sg
here is a link to a video by him including the reference by M0hammed
the video is also very relevant to "art style" of halo.
Edit:
Also.. 3:30 for "stealthily deadly"
and 10:05 for the reference made of stomping
Oh so he does video's?
saifa117 wrote:
saifa117 wrote:
saifa117 wrote:
Don Fergon wrote:
Yes that's what I meant Genesis, but I can almost bet that it wasn't built by Faber but other guys.
Also TRY to imagine an elite in H4 or H5 being Stealthily Deadly. Could you actually imagine an elite from 343 being SILENT?
Haha... sounds like something hidden xperia would say XD. Absolutely not... in halo4 and 5 they cannot be stealthy. Their helmets literally are like... tank armor thick XD...(except halo wars 2... which is by 343). Never was sure why they would make them like that... I know why they mad them "big baddies" lol... but the helmet is so thick... it makes it hard to cosplay XD.
Oh so he does video's?
yes... alot of them.
To say something relevant to artstyle... I really like the new master cheif... it seems to me they are taking a stroll down halo legends lane. :3 i approve.
Kelly and Fred look identical in the Halo:Shadows of Reach cover to Halo:Legends, Linda doesn't appear much in Halo:Legends but she looks pretty good. I hope we see a MK I prototype, that would be sick.
saifa117 wrote:
Eh... look at the elites in halo 4 and 5.... vs... elites in halo wars 2. Halo wars 2 corrects the elites. Look at the elites size... their biology... their culture.
They stand no taller, they have the exact same biology, and we learn nothing more about their culture. In fact, Sangheili in Halo Wars 2 are mercenaries. So Sangheili are now "correctly" Kig-Yar? Halo 5 did more for Sangheili culture than even Halo 2 did.

There are also very few examples of Sangheili in Halo Wars 2. We've got a cinematic where a group of Sangheili get their hooves handed to them by a handful of Jiralhanae. Then we've got Let 'Volir, whom we never see in a combat setting.

As for Sangheili being depicted as slower and more clumsy than Spartans? Halo 5 is certainly not the first. At all. We've got the example of "Monsters" from Halo Wars. I mean, look how absolutely sluggish they thrust their pikes. Ripa is taken out by a standard Marine. Or even the Spec Ops Sangheili in "A Day at the Beach" from Halo 2. He was lithe enough, sure. But also showed a complete lack of discipline and skill, against four ODST that had just been rattled in a crash. They should have been mincemeat.

Also TRY to imagine an elite in H4 or H5 being Stealthily Deadly. Could you actually imagine an elite from 343 being SILENT?
Kind of like Gek 'Lhar was when he was hunting Thorne?
saifa117 wrote:
saifa117 wrote:
Don Fergon wrote:
Yes that's what I meant Genesis, but I can almost bet that it wasn't built by Faber but other guys.
Also TRY to imagine an elite in H4 or H5 being Stealthily Deadly. Could you actually imagine an elite from 343 being SILENT?
Haha... sounds like something hidden xperia would say XD. Absolutely not... in halo4 and 5 they cannot be stealthy. Their helmets literally are like... tank armor thick XD...(except halo wars 2... which is by 343). Never was sure why they would make them like that... I know why they mad them "big baddies" lol... but the helmet is so thick... it makes it hard to cosplay XD.
343i's name is everything Halo related, but they didn't worked on HW2 directly. It is Creative Assembly game! :)

As for why the art style of both games are so reminiscent, the art director of both is Jeremy Cook. He is the guy who previously worked for Creative Assembly and than on Hi under 343i until last year.
saifa117 wrote:
Eh... look at the elites in halo 4 and 5.... vs... elites in halo wars 2. Halo wars 2 corrects the elites. Look at the elites size... their biology... their culture.
They stand no taller, they have the exact same biology, and we learn nothing more about their culture. In fact, Sangheili in Halo Wars 2 are mercenaries. So Sangheili are now "correctly" Kig-Yar? Halo 5 did more for Sangheili culture than even Halo 2 did.

There are also very few examples of Sangheili in Halo Wars 2. We've got a cinematic where a group of Sangheili get their hooves handed to them by a handful of Jiralhanae. Then we've got Let 'Volir, whom we never see in a combat setting.

As for Sangheili being depicted as slower and more clumsy than Spartans? Halo 5 is certainly not the first. At all. We've got the example of "Monsters" from Halo Wars. I mean, look how absolutely sluggish they thrust their pikes. Ripa is taken out by a standard Marine. Or even the Spec Ops Sangheili in "A Day at the Beach" from Halo 2. He was lithe enough, sure. But also showed a complete lack of discipline and skill, against four ODST that had just been rattled in a crash. They should have been mincemeat.

Also TRY to imagine an elite in H4 or H5 being Stealthily Deadly. Could you actually imagine an elite from 343 being SILENT?
Kind of like Gek 'Lhar was when he was hunting Thorne?
Hmmm If i recall correctly... I was talking about their movement...
and notice how i havent mentioned halo ce, halo 2 , halo 3, and halo wars. I definetly do not claim that halo 4 and 5 were the first time they moved that slowly.
But do notice how in halo books and lore, elites were supposed to be fast.
Sure in halo wars 2 the elites got their butts kicked by the brutes..... and i especially hold contention that an elite with a freaking energy sword got freaking yeeted.... but other than that, the brutes are stronger and most likely would win up close combat assuming they didnt have weapons.
You are correct that halo 5 does elite culture a fanservice... But I wasnt speaking about 343 getting elites culture wrong...I did mention culture... but only to support the idea that elites were supposed to be fast.

Now i have mentioned halo 2 A.... and I mean particularly in the cutscenes. And waw... now that ive went back to halo 1... ye... they are rather fast there too. But i think there are somethings that come to mind when thinking about speed. There is movement speed, and there is dexterity. And then on top of that, there is nobility and gracefulness.

;w; you have mentioned a few cutscenes I rather like.... but you have a point in . I am rather conflicted about those. In halo wars 'monsters' I believe the main reason they made the elites like that was to capitalize on the spartans dexterity and speed. But halo wars also nodded a bit towards the speed and gracefullness of the elites with ripa... despite his clumsyness. For example in the cutscene with the capture of anders.

Now... you might say well same with halo 5. I most certainly think that is the case. BUT... there is a difference in narative. There seems to be only one case in halo 5 that an elite retains some 'eliteness' XD... and that is when you find arby.

Now im not gonna really argue which of these halo made elites closest to their lore counterparts... In halo 3, they were intellegent, in halo reach they were competent, in halo wars, they were large, in halo 5 they had a unique culture, in halo wars 2 they were fast. All of that is what an elite is. But i have a specific complaint about elites in 4 and 5, and that is in the cutscenes... they are especially slow... also... spartans.... john and locke were also slow af in their fight. halo wars 'monsters' ... ye they were slow too... it isnt exempt from criticism.

There is alot to unpackage.... and you make valid points to points I perhaps implied but did not intend. To summarize: Elites are fast, competent, massive, graceful, and have a rich culture... and halo doesnt really capture all of that in gameplay. In my humble opinion, halo reach does them best.
saifa117 wrote:
Hmmm If i recall correctly... I was talking about their movement...
Well, as I quoted, you also mentioned their size and biology. Something that is consistent throughout every Halo game.

Quote:
and notice how i havent mentioned halo ce, halo 2 , halo 3, and halo wars. I definetly do not claim that halo 4 and 5 were the first time they moved that slowly.
So only Halo Reach and Halo Wars 2 got it right? It took nine years to get their movement right? This is limited to cutscene depiction only, and during gameplay the Sangheili have moved with the same agility and speed. Even in Halo 4 and 5.

Quote:
But do notice how in halo books and lore, elites were supposed to be fast.
Also notice in books and lore how plasma weaponry is supposed to absolutely annihilate anything. Compare what happened to Linda-058 on Reach with how plasma works in any Halo game, even the cutscenes.

Quote:
You are correct that halo 5 does elite culture a fanservice... But I wasnt speaking about 343 getting elites culture wrong...I did mention culture... but only to support the idea that elites were supposed to be fast.
Their agility is not their culture, and yes. You did mention their culture. Specifically in reference to Halo Wars 2 "correcting" several things about the Sangheili, compared to Halo 4 and 5. I quoted you directly on this, and the implication is clearly that Halo 4 and 5 Sangheili are somehow "wrong" in all the things you mentioned.

Quote:
In halo wars 'monsters' I believe the main reason they made the elites like that was to capitalize on the spartans dexterity and speed. But halo wars also nodded a bit towards the speed and gracefullness of the elites with ripa... despite his clumsyness. For example in the cutscene with the capture of anders.
And Halo 4 and 5 do the exact same thing. We see the skill and dexterity of Sangheili when it is appropriate (e.g. Thel climbing a wall with his friggin' sword, as well as the duel when he's rescued, as you mention) and they are downplayed in the exact same manner to showcase the Spartans. As I'm fairly certain I mentioned previously. There are very few instances (three come to mind) where Sangheili are faced off against Spartans, and this narrative is put into effect: Osiris' arrival on Kamchatka, Osiris' rescue of Halsey, and (marginally) Blue Team's arrival on Argent Moon.

Quote:
also... spartans.... john and locke were also slow af in their fight.
Honestly, do you think it would have translated well having rapid movements on par with what Spartans can canonically do? Would the fight have been easy to follow, and convey the same level of tensity? I don't think so. More than this, that cutscene was filmed (as they all were) with motion capture. And regular humans cannot move as fast as Spartans can. Filming it, then speeding it up artificially would have looked very, very cheesy.

Quote:
Elites are fast, competent, massive, graceful, and have a rich culture... and halo doesnt really capture all of that in gameplay. In my humble opinion, halo reach does them best.
Halo gameplay across the board does display Sangheili speed, size, and agility. Skill is even reflected as properly metered across ranks. Their competency is difficult to display in gameplay that varies in difficulty and ultimately is designed for player enjoyment; no one would enjoy playing a slaughter. Not only this, but a species is not going to have competency at a certain level across the entire species - none of them. And canonically, there were Sangheili who worshiped the Flood. As well as them being pawns to the San'Shyuum, and falling prey to the Rise of the Jiralhanae. Their culture is only depicted - both in gameplay and cutscene - in Halo 5.

I don't see how Halo Reach does Sangheili the best, as there was a lot of criticism back in 2010 that they were too bestial. They were animals in armor, snarling and growling rather than speaking any intelligible language.
saifa117 wrote:
waw, oki... XD I see you are very critical. Not sure whats the motive there, but I will admit that im not very good at pinning what exactly disturbs me about the elites in halo 4 and 5. There are things that i can set aside in understanding, like gameplay accomadating the player... with varying degrees of deviation.
You are right about alot. Including the plasma and what not.
Alas, I will make my case for why I think elites in halo reach are my prefered variant.
1- the way they hold their sword
2- the level of their dificulty
3- they speak to each other sangheili
4- they move fast, both speed and dexerity (ignoring the zealots that assualted noble team cutscene... not sure how they were zealots while being so incompetent)
5- their armor... its beautiful except for the general, officer, and ranger... officer i may make an exception but im not liking it as much as the minor, ultra, spec ops, zealot and feild marshall
6- their posture
And that is basically what I can come up with. Maybe im biased because the elite ultra in reach is by far my favorite armor...

Now is the part I say what I like about other elites in other halo games.
They added a sharp toe on the zealot in halo 4... that was nice imo.
Halo 5 took us to their planet... that was pretty awsome. Kaidon armor on the arbiter is looking awsome.
Halo 3 we had the elites go 1 cruiser vs 3 ... and came out ontop . That was nice

I am stating my opinions here. and since i am making positive assertions , its easy for you to tear apart but i suspect you enjoy that kind of thing.
What I request from the art style is simple. Halo 2 A campaign* and Halo wars 2 looking elites... with the competence, difficulty, and ranks of reach. What can stay from halo 5? kaidon armor pls. I dont mind if they do a hybrid looking zealot from halo 4-5 and a spec op from halo reach. They can do new. Like halo wars 2 brough abour that neat sharp fang helmet thing... the executuioner had.
saifa117 wrote:
I am stating my opinions here. and since i am making positive assertions , its easy for you to tear apart but i suspect you enjoy that kind of thing.
You're stating your opinion with Halo Reach, of which I merely put forward my opinion as well. The rest, though, has been stated more as fact than opinion, and they haven't really been stated as positive assertion. However no, it's not the "tearing apart" things that I enjoy (we can do without that, please); rather, I'm weary of seeing tired and baseless criticisms of Halo 4 and 5. Most seem to fall down to them being products of 343. If a claim can be refuted, it will be. Nature of a forum.
saifa117 wrote:
I am stating my opinions here. and since i am making positive assertions , its easy for you to tear apart but i suspect you enjoy that kind of thing.
You're stating your opinion with Halo Reach, of which I merely put forward my opinion as well. The rest, though, has been stated more as fact than opinion, and they haven't really been stated as positive assertion. However no, it's not the "tearing apart" things that I enjoy (we can do without that, please); rather, I'm weary of seeing tired and baseless criticisms of Halo 4 and 5. Most seem to fall down to them being products of 343. If a claim can be refuted, it will be. Nature of a forum.
Well I hope you know I have faith in 343... and I dont think halo 4 and 5 were bad entirely. Although I do get what you mean. Ive seen some people be critical just for the sake of being critical of 343 products.
There are many things in halo 4 and 5 I really do like. I like the guardians... i like the warden eternal... jul mdama, captain lasky... perhaps one of the top 10 characters in the univesre imo, um... exuberant witness... female sangheli.. locke wasnt even that bad of a character imo. The hunters had an amazing upgrade.... hell ya, best iteration of hunters yet imo. They even let us have the hunter's weapon in halo 5... both versions ... Prophet's bane, return of the smg... like. There is alot to love. But some things need to be identified, and brought up, so that 343 is aware of our opinions. I had hope with 343 in 4 and 5.... and stuck with them, despite thier choice of design with the elites which are my favorite species and the design is by far the worst design from all the halos imo.

Elites are my main and perhaps only contention. Why arent they playable... why do they look like they do... why do they move in cutscenes like they do. It is unpleasant to see so little aknowledgement to their previous appearances.
High praise for what they did for the elites in halo 5 especially , we literally visited their planet.
The reason I came at you with that remark of mine was because I noticed the nature of our conversation. I wasnt criticizing you in particular. I was making an observation that I dont see you making an opinion... but rather just being critical of my own. And being critical is healthy, its welcome, and I think it will help the community improve.

What I actually intended was to ask your opinion. Do you prefer the elites aesthetic desing in halo 4 and 5 in comparision to halo reach. If so... why is that?

Further more, along the topic of the thread... Do you prefer the aesthetic of the spartans in halo 4 and 5 in comparision to halo reach? and this one is admitedly a very complex question... because spartans in halo reach are spartan III 's ... and in halo 4 and 5 are spartan 4's with the exception of a few in campaign.
On the subject of the elites.
Unlike a lot of people, I don’t think there is a way to correctly or incorrectly portray the elites. As shown by both games and books, especially in books, some elites are small and slender, and others are hulking behemoths. Some elites are silent and subtle, others are known to be extremely trigger-happy. Halo games and books depict a variety of elites, but a lot of people like to pretend that half of the elites don’t, or shouldn’t exist. I think that elites of all shapes and sizes have a place in Halo.
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