Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

The return of classic movement mechanics?

OP A So So Sniper

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I'm sick of "advanced" movement. To me, it doesn't add anything to the game except a level of needless complexity. I would prefer the removal of redical bloom, sprint, and armor effects. These features aren't needed in Halo. They make Halo just like any other shooter of a similar genre. By removing these things you'll do 2 things. 1, you'll make Halo feel more like classic Halo which I think fans will love and 2, you'll bring a unique feeling to Halo in the modern era of gamming.
Unknown wrote:
Battle wrote:
If sprint isn't really needed or wanted or even considered a strategy to use when out gunned. Even nerfed to be limited or stopped due to damage. Why not hold that same standard to other mechanics? Lets say Sprint is the same as walking from point A to B just faster (not comparing remake maps from originals in older games).
. The same can be said for Reloading, the reload button is the same as empting the magazine then the game auto reloads. The gun gets reloaded either way so why have a reload button? Or since reloading with the button is an extra mechanic why not nerf it by taking longer if under fire suppression? Or totally cancelled if you take damage?
. Maybe the same could be said for jumping? What if you take damage as you jump? Could that knock someone out of their jump? Then people couldn't "halo jump" as a defense while getting shot. Or why even have jump? Couldn't the level designers make every level walkable?
. I'm sure there's more nerfing or removal that could be done to the mechanics in the game, but why only hold sprint to a different stanard then all the other mechanics? Judge all equally.
.
We don't want nerfed. We want it removed.
You missed my point. There are other mechanics like reload, jump, zoom, etc. That could be removed just like sprint. All the same points people use for their desire to remove one mechanic could be used to removed other mechanics aswell. The people trying to make some kind of justifaction for their opinion should use that same reasoning for all issues. Otherwise they invalidate their opinions from technical facts on gameplay to simply its what they want, and they just to be heard.
However if the same people that want sprint removed could explain why reload, jump, zoom should be removed aswell? Maybe I would accept that opinion more easily.

Why shouldn't we remove reload? Guns reload on their own when they are empty, so why the reload button?

If level designers want higher levels they can just use ramps, right? Why have jump?

If game designers just make a weapon like the sniper automatically zoomed in when its equipped. Why have zoom? Why have two zooming levels?

H5 added seat switching in a vehicle. Why keep that?

A grenade switching feature, why have that?

If someone could argue these points to all be removed along with sprint I might cosider them to have justification in the points they are trying to make.

This post has been hidden.

4
Unknown wrote:
Battle wrote:
Unknown wrote:
Battle wrote:
If sprint isn't really needed or wanted or even considered a strategy to use when out gunned. Even nerfed to be limited or stopped due to damage. Why not hold that same standard to other mechanics? Lets say Sprint is the same as walking from point A to B just faster (not comparing remake maps from originals in older games).
. The same can be said for Reloading, the reload button is the same as empting the magazine then the game auto reloads. The gun gets reloaded either way so why have a reload button? Or since reloading with the button is an extra mechanic why not nerf it by taking longer if under fire suppression? Or totally cancelled if you take damage?
. Maybe the same could be said for jumping? What if you take damage as you jump? Could that knock someone out of their jump? Then people couldn't "halo jump" as a defense while getting shot. Or why even have jump? Couldn't the level designers make every level walkable?
. I'm sure there's more nerfing or removal that could be done to the mechanics in the game, but why only hold sprint to a different stanard then all the other mechanics? Judge all equally.
.
We don't want nerfed. We want it removed.
You missed my point. There are other mechanics like reload, jump, zoom, etc. That could be removed just like sprint. All the same points people use for their desire to remove one mechanic could be used to removed other mechanics aswell. The people trying to make some kind of justifaction for their opinion should use that same reasoning for all issues. Otherwise they invalidate their opinions from technical facts on gameplay to simply its what they want, and they just to be heard.
However if the same people that want sprint removed could explain why reload, jump, zoom should be removed aswell? Maybe I would accept that opinion more easily.

Why shouldn't we remove reload? Guns reload on their own when they are empty, so why the reload button?

If level designers want higher levels they can just use ramps, right? Why have jump?

If game designers just make a weapon like the sniper automatically zoomed in when its equipped. Why have zoom? Why have two zooming levels?

H5 added seat switching in a vehicle. Why keep that?

A grenade switching feature, why have that?

If someone could argue these points to all be removed along with sprint I might cosider them to have justification in the points they are trying to make.
You're comparing a new, alien, and foreign mechanic like sprint which fundamentally changed Halo, to basic actions like reloading and jumping. This is the most desperate argument for sprint I've heard yet. I get it, not only do.you want sprint, but you want it how it was in Halo 4; sprinting around the map without consequences. There's nothing wrong with your opinion. In fact, I'd rather 343 go all out and change everything about Halo like they did with 4. At least then Halo would "sort of" be it's own thing, and cater to one group. It's much better than mix matching like Halo 5, trying to please both crowds.
I am trying to keep my opinon out of it. I haven't posted my opinion how I like or dislike sprint in months. So why are you trying to validate your point with your own assumption of my opinion on sprint? This is why I have a hard time taking most of these arguments seriously.

Sprint isn't that new to gaming. It isn't foreign or alien to gaming. Neither is reload or jump. However can you explain how sprint changes gameplay negatively in a way that the same can't be said for jump? The first first person gameplay in a game was just walking around in a maze. No sprint, no jump, no guns, no reload, just walking. The game was Maze in 1973. The first addition to the game was the ability to play with a second person. Not jumping or sprint. Then came the guns. So if sprint is new, alien, and foreign. I would argue so is everything besides walking around.

I understand my point is about first person shooter gameplay in general and yours is specifically about Halo. However my main point is that all arguents for the removal of sprint can be used as arguements to remove other so called basic mechanics like jump. On the revese side the same could be said about keeping sprint along with jump and other mechanics.

As far as Halo "sort of" being its own thing? Its classified as a FPS and like it or not, sprint in FPS's is a thing. Not that is right or wrong, good or bad. In my opinion, its Halo's lore and epic scale of storytelling in all different mediums such as the books, and comics that makes it its "own thing" more than weither sprint is in gameplay or not.

This post has been hidden.

3
Battle wrote:
Unknown wrote:
Battle wrote:
Unknown wrote:
Battle wrote:
If sprint isn't really needed or wanted or even considered a strategy to use when out gunned. Even nerfed to be limited or stopped due to damage. Why not hold that same standard to other mechanics? Lets say Sprint is the same as walking from point A to B just faster (not comparing remake maps from originals in older games).
. The same can be said for Reloading, the reload button is the same as empting the magazine then the game auto reloads. The gun gets reloaded either way so why have a reload button? Or since reloading with the button is an extra mechanic why not nerf it by taking longer if under fire suppression? Or totally cancelled if you take damage?
. Maybe the same could be said for jumping? What if you take damage as you jump? Could that knock someone out of their jump? Then people couldn't "halo jump" as a defense while getting shot. Or why even have jump? Couldn't the level designers make every level walkable?
. I'm sure there's more nerfing or removal that could be done to the mechanics in the game, but why only hold sprint to a different stanard then all the other mechanics? Judge all equally.
.
We don't want nerfed. We want it removed.
You missed my point. There are other mechanics like reload, jump, zoom, etc. That could be removed just like sprint. All the same points people use for their desire to remove one mechanic could be used to removed other mechanics aswell. The people trying to make some kind of justifaction for their opinion should use that same reasoning for all issues. Otherwise they invalidate their opinions from technical facts on gameplay to simply its what they want, and they just to be heard.
However if the same people that want sprint removed could explain why reload, jump, zoom should be removed aswell? Maybe I would accept that opinion more easily.

Why shouldn't we remove reload? Guns reload on their own when they are empty, so why the reload button?

If level designers want higher levels they can just use ramps, right? Why have jump?

If game designers just make a weapon like the sniper automatically zoomed in when its equipped. Why have zoom? Why have two zooming levels?

H5 added seat switching in a vehicle. Why keep that?

A grenade switching feature, why have that?

If someone could argue these points to all be removed along with sprint I might cosider them to have justification in the points they are trying to make.
You're comparing a new, alien, and foreign mechanic like sprint which fundamentally changed Halo, to basic actions like reloading and jumping. This is the most desperate argument for sprint I've heard yet. I get it, not only do.you want sprint, but you want it how it was in Halo 4; sprinting around the map without consequences. There's nothing wrong with your opinion. In fact, I'd rather 343 go all out and change everything about Halo like they did with 4. At least then Halo would "sort of" be it's own thing, and cater to one group. It's much better than mix matching like Halo 5, trying to please both crowds.
I am trying to keep my opinon out of it. I haven't posted my opinion how I like or dislike sprint in months. So why are you trying to validate your point with your own assumption of my opinion on sprint? This is why I have a hard time taking most of these arguments seriously.

Sprint isn't that new to gaming. It isn't foreign or alien to gaming. Neither is reload or jump. However can you explain how sprint changes gameplay negatively in a way that the same can't be said for jump? The first first person gameplay in a game was just walking around in a maze. No sprint, no jump, no guns, no reload, just walking. The game was Maze in 1973. The first addition to the game was the ability to play with a second person. Not jumping or sprint. Then came the guns. So if sprint is new, alien, and foreign. I would argue so is everything besides walking around.

I understand my point is about first person shooter gameplay in general and yours is specifically about Halo. However my main point is that all arguents for the removal of sprint can be used as arguements to remove other so called basic mechanics like jump. On the revese side the same could be said about keeping sprint along with jump and other mechanics.

As far as Halo "sort of" being its own thing? Its classified as a FPS and like it or not, sprint in FPS's is a thing. Not that is right or wrong, good or bad. In my opinion, its Halo's lore and epic scale of storytelling in all different mediums such as the books, and comics that makes it its "own thing" more than weither sprint is in gameplay or not.
Sprint isn't a universal thing to have in a FPS's, take counter strike and overwatch for example, they are still FPS games. Sprint is quite new to halo, added in halo reach, so it is foreign and alien to many people who have been playing halo before reach was released , the other mechanics such as jump and crouch have been in halo since the beginning, and no one had a problem with them,thus I really don't think people are going to want to get rid of the base mechanics. The thing is that it's all up to the opinion of the community. Though I agree that the same arguments can be used to remove other mechanics, no one is really trying to remove crouch and jump, people want sprint removed.
Gameplay is as important to a game as storytelling is, its a game not a movie. And why are you talking about FPS's in general and not halo, when you are on a halo forum?
Unknown wrote:
Battle wrote:
Unknown wrote:
Battle wrote:
Unknown wrote:
Battle wrote:
If sprint isn't really needed or wanted or even considered a strategy to use when out gunned. Even nerfed to be limited or stopped due to damage. Why not hold that same standard to other mechanics? Lets say Sprint is the same as walking from point A to B just faster (not comparing remake maps from originals in older games).
. The same can be said for Reloading, the reload button is the same as empting the magazine then the game auto reloads. The gun gets reloaded either way so why have a reload button? Or since reloading with the button is an extra mechanic why not nerf it by taking longer if under fire suppression? Or totally cancelled if you take damage?
. Maybe the same could be said for jumping? What if you take damage as you jump? Could that knock someone out of their jump? Then people couldn't "halo jump" as a defense while getting shot. Or why even have jump? Couldn't the level designers make every level walkable?
. I'm sure there's more nerfing or removal that could be done to the mechanics in the game, but why only hold sprint to a different stanard then all the other mechanics? Judge all equally.
.
We don't want nerfed. We want it removed.
You missed my point. There are other mechanics like reload, jump, zoom, etc. That could be removed just like sprint. All the same points people use for their desire to remove one mechanic could be used to removed other mechanics aswell. The people trying to make some kind of justifaction for their opinion should use that same reasoning for all issues. Otherwise they invalidate their opinions from technical facts on gameplay to simply its what they want, and they just to be heard.
However if the same people that want sprint removed could explain why reload, jump, zoom should be removed aswell? Maybe I would accept that opinion more easily.

Why shouldn't we remove reload? Guns reload on their own when they are empty, so why the reload button?

If level designers want higher levels they can just use ramps, right? Why have jump?

If game designers just make a weapon like the sniper automatically zoomed in when its equipped. Why have zoom? Why have two zooming levels?

H5 added seat switching in a vehicle. Why keep that?

A grenade switching feature, why have that?

If someone could argue these points to all be removed along with sprint I might cosider them to have justification in the points they are trying to make.
It's alien and new to Halo. Not COD, not Battlefield...Halo. That was truly a strawman If I ever saw one. You're defending sprint so it's obvious you like it. You didn't have to come right out and say it. There's nothing wrong with that opinion either.
There are dozens of videos of people explaining why sprint doesn't work for Halo elsewhere, and there are hundreds of points being made here. There's nothing more to say about it.
And then you brought up lore. Why do guys keep mentioning lore as if it matters in any way whatsoever? Should Jerome be able to take out two scarabs online in Halo Wars 2 on his own just because he can do it in the books? It's a stupid argument.
I'm interested in why sprint should be removed and not jump or other mechanics? I agree there are many points for and against sprint. However the arguement can be made to remove other mechanics too. Jump, Highjack, Zoom, Reload among others could still be removed and Halo would still be a functional FPS game. Walk, Shoot, Punch, Grenade and Drive thats all that is need for a game so why have anything else?

Here's a point for removing reload. In Halo CE, most of the Covenant weapons didn't need to be reloaded. Why not make all the guns like that?

As far as me bringing up the lore, I didn't mention anything about Jerome or any other character being able to do anything in the lore that should be in the game. Your making up stuff I didn't say again. Please stop that. I said the extended lore in the other media beyond the games is what gives halo its own thing.

So unless you have a reason other than, because you say so or because you like what you like. I think I'll quote you on your opinion of Sprint. "There's nothing more to say about it" for you, anyway.
I H4Q3R I wrote:
Battle wrote:
Unknown wrote:
Battle wrote:
Unknown wrote:
Battle wrote:
If sprint isn't really needed or wanted or even considered a strategy to use when out gunned. Even nerfed to be limited or stopped due to damage. Why not hold that same standard to other mechanics? Lets say Sprint is the same as walking from point A to B just faster (not comparing remake maps from originals in older games).
. The same can be said for Reloading, the reload button is the same as empting the magazine then the game auto reloads. The gun gets reloaded either way so why have a reload button? Or since reloading with the button is an extra mechanic why not nerf it by taking longer if under fire suppression? Or totally cancelled if you take damage?
. Maybe the same could be said for jumping? What if you take damage as you jump? Could that knock someone out of their jump? Then people couldn't "halo jump" as a defense while getting shot. Or why even have jump? Couldn't the level designers make every level walkable?
. I'm sure there's more nerfing or removal that could be done to the mechanics in the game, but why only hold sprint to a different stanard then all the other mechanics? Judge all equally.
.
We don't want nerfed. We want it removed.
You missed my point. There are other mechanics like reload, jump, zoom, etc. That could be removed just like sprint. All the same points people use for their desire to remove one mechanic could be used to removed other mechanics aswell. The people trying to make some kind of justifaction for their opinion should use that same reasoning for all issues. Otherwise they invalidate their opinions from technical facts on gameplay to simply its what they want, and they just to be heard.
However if the same people that want sprint removed could explain why reload, jump, zoom should be removed aswell? Maybe I would accept that opinion more easily.

Why shouldn't we remove reload? Guns reload on their own when they are empty, so why the reload button?

If level designers want higher levels they can just use ramps, right? Why have jump?

If game designers just make a weapon like the sniper automatically zoomed in when its equipped. Why have zoom? Why have two zooming levels?

H5 added seat switching in a vehicle. Why keep that?

A grenade switching feature, why have that?

If someone could argue these points to all be removed along with sprint I might cosider them to have justification in the points they are trying to make.
Sprint isn't a universal thing to have in a FPS's, take counter strike and overwatch for example, they are still FPS games. Sprint is quite new to halo, added in halo reach, so it is foreign and alien to many people who have been playing halo before reach was released , the other mechanics such as jump and crouch have been in halo since the beginning, and no one had a problem with it. I really don't think people are going to want to get rid of the base mechanics. The thing is that it's all up to the opinion of the community. Though I agree that the same arguments can be used to remove other mechanics, no one is really trying to remove crouch and jump, people want sprint removed.
Gameplay is as important to a game as storytelling is, its a game not a movie. And why are you talking about FPS's in general and not halo, when you are on a halo forum?
I'm trying to understand why people focus so much on one mechanic instead of holding that same standard to every mechanic in the game. There are many new things brought into Halo since CE but only sprint seems to get 90% of the flak. Why not any other features?

Maybe this example will help. People seem to use bumper jumper to use jump as a defensive manouver. Some would claim its legit, to others its an in game exploit. Does that mean we should call for its removal because people can't agree on this simple technique? Or nerf it like Fortnite? So why only discuss the removal of Sprint when some look at it as a legit tactic for encounters with gameplay, and others see it as a catalyst for destroying Halos very fundations? I'm not assuming your thoughts on the subject are that extreme, I'm just trying give an example.

In my opinion Sprint or no. The biased opinions focused solely on sprint if not done fairly for all mechanics in a particular game is just "food for the Trolls."
Battle wrote:
I H4Q3R I wrote:
Battle wrote:
Unknown wrote:
Battle wrote:
Unknown wrote:
Battle wrote:
If sprint isn't really needed or wanted or even considered a strategy to use when out gunned. Even nerfed to be limited or stopped due to damage. Why not hold that same standard to other mechanics? Lets say Sprint is the same as walking from point A to B just faster (not comparing remake maps from originals in older games).
. The same can be said for Reloading, the reload button is the same as empting the magazine then the game auto reloads. The gun gets reloaded either way so why have a reload button? Or since reloading with the button is an extra mechanic why not nerf it by taking longer if under fire suppression? Or totally cancelled if you take damage?
. Maybe the same could be said for jumping? What if you take damage as you jump? Could that knock someone out of their jump? Then people couldn't "halo jump" as a defense while getting shot. Or why even have jump? Couldn't the level designers make every level walkable?
. I'm sure there's more nerfing or removal that could be done to the mechanics in the game, but why only hold sprint to a different stanard then all the other mechanics? Judge all equally.
.
We don't want nerfed. We want it removed.
You missed my point. There are other mechanics like reload, jump, zoom, etc. That could be removed just like sprint. All the same points people use for their desire to remove one mechanic could be used to removed other mechanics aswell. The people trying to make some kind of justifaction for their opinion should use that same reasoning for all issues. Otherwise they invalidate their opinions from technical facts on gameplay to simply its what they want, and they just to be heard.
However if the same people that want sprint removed could explain why reload, jump, zoom should be removed aswell? Maybe I would accept that opinion more easily.

Why shouldn't we remove reload? Guns reload on their own when they are empty, so why the reload button?

If level designers want higher levels they can just use ramps, right? Why have jump?

If game designers just make a weapon like the sniper automatically zoomed in when its equipped. Why have zoom? Why have two zooming levels?

H5 added seat switching in a vehicle. Why keep that?

A grenade switching feature, why have that?

If someone could argue these points to all be removed along with sprint I might cosider them to have justification in the points they are trying to make.
Sprint isn't a universal thing to have in a FPS's, take counter strike and overwatch for example, they are still FPS games. Sprint is quite new to halo, added in halo reach, so it is foreign and alien to many people who have been playing halo before reach was released , the other mechanics such as jump and crouch have been in halo since the beginning, and no one had a problem with it. I really don't think people are going to want to get rid of the base mechanics. The thing is that it's all up to the opinion of the community. Though I agree that the same arguments can be used to remove other mechanics, no one is really trying to remove crouch and jump, people want sprint removed.
Gameplay is as important to a game as storytelling is, its a game not a movie. And why are you talking about FPS's in general and not halo, when you are on a halo forum?
I'm trying to understand why people focus so much on one mechanic instead of holding that same standard to every mechanic in the game. There are many new things brought into Halo since CE but only sprint seems to get 90% of the flak. Why not any other features?
Maybe this example will help. People seem to use bumper jumper to use jump as a defensive manouver. Some would claim its legit, to others its an in game exploit. Does that mean we should call for its removal because people can't agree on this simple technique? Or nerf it like Fortnite? So why only discuss the removal of Sprint when some look at it as a legit tactic for encounters with gameplay, and others see it as a catalyst for destroying Halos very fundations? I'm not assuming your thoughts on the subject are that extreme, I'm just trying give an example.

In my opinion Sprint or no. The biased opinions focused solely on sprint if not done fairly for all mechanics in a particular game is just "food for the Trolls."
Yeah, why doesn't anyone question why we have a First Person POV? I can't believe someone would have the shear gall to criticize the addition of sprint while not examining how the ability to shoot can affect the game...

Its almost like there are people that are just not bothered by those other mechanics in the context of Halo since they have been there from the beginning so if they strongly disliked them they probably wouldn't have become fans in the first place. Oh and let's not forget that no one has ever complained about any other new addition in the context of whether they enjoy it in Halo specifically, certainly not bloom, spread, equipment, dual wielding, armor abilities, or loadouts. And they most certainly have never let changes like vehicle boarding, seat switching, or regenerating health slide by mostly unopposed because they happened to like those changes while disliking others.

I mean the nerve of the folks in a thread titled "the return of classic movement mechanics" to focus on how they feel about returning to classic movement mechanics as opposed to keeping newer movement mechanics rather than talk about a jump mechanic that is present in either system.

In all seriousness, saying that criticizing a newly added mechanic is "unfair" because the same level of scrutiny isn't applied to every other design decision to an equal degree is absurd. Mechanics that created the foundation that made Halo what it was are simply not subject to equal scrutiny as newly added mechanics. To suggest that they are means that you could change literally any design decision(or narrative decision for that matter) and it would still be equally 'Halo.' You could of course make a Halo themed without say jumping(or again literally anything else) but that doesn't make it a "Halo" game as in the main video game series that certain folks have decided they enjoy. Naturally no one person is the arbiter of what is or is not "Halo" but one person saying they don't like sprint in Halo for X reasons doesn't make them a hypocrite for not caring that you could make a similar argument regarding Y mechanic that has been in the game since day 1.

Without the existing context of "Halo" as in the game series that consists of those specific design quirks the discussion about the merits or demerits of sprint is totally meaningless.
Battle wrote:
I H4Q3R I wrote:
Battle wrote:
I'm trying to understand why people focus so much on one mechanic instead of holding that same standard to every mechanic in the game. There are many new things brought into Halo since CE but only sprint seems to get 90% of the flak. Why not any other features?
Maybe this example will help. People seem to use bumper jumper to use jump as a defensive manouver. Some would claim its legit, to others its an in game exploit. Does that mean we should call for its removal because people can't agree on this simple technique? Or nerf it like Fortnite? So why only discuss the removal of Sprint when some look at it as a legit tactic for encounters with gameplay, and others see it as a catalyst for destroying Halos very fundations? I'm not assuming your thoughts on the subject are that extreme, I'm just trying give an example.

In my opinion Sprint or no. The biased opinions focused solely on sprint if not done fairly for all mechanics in a particular game is just "food for the Trolls."
The reason people focus so much on sprint is because it fundamentally changes the way that Halo is played and designed in negative ways, and it was added late into the franchises history. Reload, Jump, and Zoom are fundamental mechanics of Halo that have been there from the very first game, their importance to Halo is thus indisputable. A Halo without reload, jump, and zoom would not only completely change the way that the game is played but would also have negative side affects on top of the identity issues that their absence would cause.

A Halo without manual reload would break the balance and strategy of reloading and severely nerf power weapons. Having to rely on automatic reload would mean that guns would need to be completely empty before they could be reloaded, which would waste both ammo and time as people would have to waste any remaining ammo in their guns between engagements, this would be especially bad for power weapons, as they typically have very low ammo capacities. This would also ruin basic engagement principles, because players would no longer be able to simply stop and reload behind cover so that they can get a full clip after using just some of their ammo. Being able to have a full magazine at a moments notice is absolutely vital to combat in Halo.

A Halo without jump would be an incredibly boring and broken game. Only having ramps as you suggested would completely ruin the pacing and also look of every Halo map ever designed. Moving around the map would take much longer and the way that the player would traverse the map would be mundane, 2 dimensional, and ruin the creativity that players are allowed when moving around maps. Without jump, players would also be much more vulnerable to vehicle splattering, and explosive splash damage, as well as close range weapons. Removing jump would also neuter the creative freedom of forge maps and completely remove the ability to make interesting obstacle courses and races.

A Halo without zoom would be an absolute dumpster fire of weapon imbalance. Precision weapons like the Battle Rifle would be severely underpowered, heavy weapons like the Rocket Launcher, and Spartan Laser would be extremely difficult to use at long range, and long range power weapons like the Sniper Rifle would be practically useless. An automatic zoom function such as the one you suggested would be absolutely terrible, because it would force the player to navigate the environment with no peripheral vision, and would also make acquiring targets extremely difficult. A lack of manual zoom would also make precision weapons like the Battle rifle have no usability at close or sometimes even medium range due to the restriction of movement and vision while locked in zoom.

People do not just focus on Sprint, every mechanic introduced from Duel Wielding, to equipment, to Armor Abilities, to Spartan Abilities, as well as Sprint have been heavily debated, to categorize Sprint as being the only thing that gets negative attention is completely false and dishonest. Every new mechanic introduced in each game has been debated at length, and there are pages upon pages of threads discussing these mechanics as well as many different YouTube videos, which present all sorts of arguments regarding these mechanics, these arguments are not all the same and thus do not create any sort of hypocrisy when it comes to the original, well founded, core mechanics of Halo. There is no "standard" argument or treatment that is being made against sprint, there are many, and these arguments have no bearing whatsoever on the original core mechanics of Halo, Reload, Jump, and Zoom are not up for debate, they are core mechanics, they do not need to be defended because they cannot be removed without fundamentally changing what Halo is.
I've watched videos and read tons of comments for both sides on sprint. I still don't see the difference. Sprint won't make or break Halo anymore than removing jump or reload would. I recently watched an old video on dual weilding and the golden triangle (combat with guns>melee>grenade) with bungie's original vision. They said they removed it because people weren't using the golden triangle for encounters anymore. People stopped using melee and grenades for many encounters. So they removed it.

Mechanics like sprint, reload, driving, clamber, and some AA's block the golden triangle temporarily. However unlike dual weilding people still use the golden triangle with all these mechanics.

Some might think the golden triangle would be complimented by the movement triangle of walk, sprint, jump. Or the vehicle triangle of light, heavy, air vehicles. Power ups invis, overshield, speed boost? Perhaps map sizes? Small, medium, large.

There are so many features in the game the could be argued over sprint hasn't broken combat or level design anymore than any other feature. People keep saying sprint wasn't part of the original foundation. Are not foundations meant to be built upon?
I honestly think Infinite will have sprint because 343 seems to have learned their lesson about misleading advertisements. Also they said the discover hope trailer is the opening scene. I don't think its too much of a stretch to assume sprint is in Inifinite since at the Chief puts his gun away then sprints out of the pelican. Is this a fair assumption?
Battle wrote:
I'm trying to understand why people focus so much on one mechanic instead of holding that same standard to every mechanic in the game. There are many new things brought into Halo since CE but only sprint seems to get 90% of the flak. Why not any other features?
Maybe this example will help. People seem to use bumper jumper to use jump as a defensive manouver. Some would claim its legit, to others its an in game exploit. Does that mean we should call for its removal because people can't agree on this simple technique? Or nerf it like Fortnite? So why only discuss the removal of Sprint when some look at it as a legit tactic for encounters with gameplay, and others see it as a catalyst for destroying Halos very fundations? I'm not assuming your thoughts on the subject are that extreme, I'm just trying give an example.

In my opinion Sprint or no. The biased opinions focused solely on sprint if not done fairly for all mechanics in a particular game is just "food for the Trolls."
People find problems with sprint that they don't find with other mechanics, and they see benefits in other mechanics that they don't see in sprint. What else is there to say?

Comparing sprint to other vastly different mechanics is a dangerous road to go down, because you easily end up fixating on one similarity between those mechanics and thinking that someone is hypocritical for accepting one while rejecting the other. Let's talk about reloading. Why have a reload button at all? On the surface, you could throw the same argument that is given against sprint at this: it puts the player into an animation that prevents them from shooting (or performing any combat actions for that matter). But some facts ignored here include: reloads last less time than sprinting (so it's less disruptive) and reloading is not a movement mechanic (so it doesn't separate movement from combat). Furthermore, reloading is weapon specific—it gives finer control over the weapon sandbox. Reloading is why we can have a rocket launcher with a fast rate of fire that isn't totally OP. Reloading lets us prevent precision weapon users from pushing forward endlessly. Reload times are a useful tool in a weapon designer's toolbox, which gives reloading a very meaningful role in design.

For other mechanics, the same story repeats: they are not sprint. They do different things, they function differently, they have different effects on gameplay. If you feel like jumping is a mechanic that should be removed, then by all means, explain to us why it needs to be removed. But the fact that I want sprint to be removed does not oblige me in any way to agree that jumping should be removed (or, indeed, to even take the idea of its removal seriously). It also doesn't oblige me to explain why I approve jumping, because a priori the jump mechanic has nothing to do with sprint. Of course, if you genuinely don't understand the difference between the two mechanics, I do have an explanation for it. It's just that by default I consider the difference to be well understood, and regard explaining the difference between sprint and X, sprint and Y, sprint and Z, and so on, as waste of everyone's time.

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tsassi wrote:
Battle wrote:
I'm trying to understand why people focus so much on one mechanic instead of holding that same standard to every mechanic in the game. There are many new things brought into Halo since CE but only sprint seems to get 90% of the flak. Why not any other features?
Maybe this example will help. People seem to use bumper jumper to use jump as a defensive manouver. Some would claim its legit, to others its an in game exploit. Does that mean we should call for its removal because people can't agree on this simple technique? Or nerf it like Fortnite? So why only discuss the removal of Sprint when some look at it as a legit tactic for encounters with gameplay, and others see it as a catalyst for destroying Halos very fundations? I'm not assuming your thoughts on the subject are that extreme, I'm just trying give an example.

In my opinion Sprint or no. The biased opinions focused solely on sprint if not done fairly for all mechanics in a particular game is just "food for the Trolls."
People find problems with sprint that they don't find with other mechanics, and they see benefits in other mechanics that they don't see in sprint. What else is there to say?

Comparing sprint to other vastly different mechanics is a dangerous road to go down, because you easily end up fixating on one similarity between those mechanics and thinking that someone is hypocritical for accepting one while rejecting the other. Let's talk about reloading. Why have a reload button at all? On the surface, you could throw the same argument that is given against sprint at this: it puts the player into an animation that prevents them from shooting (or performing any combat actions for that matter). But some facts ignored here include: reloads last less time than sprinting (so it's less disruptive) and reloading is not a movement mechanic (so it doesn't separate movement from combat). Furthermore, reloading is weapon specific—it gives finer control over the weapon sandbox. Reloading is why we can have a rocket launcher with a fast rate of fire that isn't totally OP. Reloading lets us prevent precision weapon users from pushing forward endlessly. Reload times are a useful tool in a weapon designer's toolbox, which gives reloading a very meaningful role in design.

For other mechanics, the same story repeats: they are not sprint. They do different things, they function differently, they have different effects on gameplay. If you feel like jumping is a mechanic that should be removed, then by all means, explain to us why it needs to be removed. But the fact that I want sprint to be removed does not oblige me in any way to agree that jumping should be removed (or, indeed, to even take the idea of its removal seriously). It also doesn't oblige me to explain why I approve jumping, because a priori the jump mechanic has nothing to do with sprint. Of course, if you genuinely don't understand the difference between the two mechanics, I do have an explanation for it. It's just that by default I consider the difference to be well understood, and regard explaining the difference between sprint and X, sprint and Y, sprint and Z, and so on, as waste of everyone's time.
I think he is trying to understand why people mostly focus on sprint. I also agree that sprint is a different mechanic and i would like to see it go away in halo and other mechanics function different and therefore are not as big as a problem to people than sprint.

on the reloading topic: for the weapon specific characteristics of the rocket launcher or precision weapons, there could be an alternative like overheating or a cooldown (similar to plasma weapons and the beam rifle). so i kind of think that there could be made an argument against reloading at all. i don't mean that the weapon reloads automaticly after the clip is empty, i mean that it never has to be reloaded, similar to doom (maybe an exception for if you pick up ammo for an empty weapon, so you have to load it once). but like you said: it's not a movement mechanic (although you could argue it's a mechanic which is affected by sprint bc you can't reload while sprinting).

but overall i have to say, that i much prefer classic halo movement mechanics and it will depend on what i see about the gameplay on which system i will get infinite (maybe i would even get it just used if it is build on advanced movement mechanics)
Battle wrote:
I've watched videos and read tons of comments for both sides on sprint. I still don't see the difference. Sprint won't make or break Halo anymore than removing jump or reload would. I recently watched an old video on dual weilding and the golden triangle (combat with guns>melee>grenade) with bungie's original vision. They said they removed it because people weren't using the golden triangle for encounters anymore. People stopped using melee and grenades for many encounters. So they removed it.

Mechanics like sprint, reload, driving, clamber, and some AA's block the golden triangle temporarily. However unlike dual weilding people still use the golden triangle with all these mechanics.
Some might think the golden triangle would be complimented by the movement triangle of walk, sprint, jump. Or the vehicle triangle of light, heavy, air vehicles. Power ups invis, overshield, speed boost? Perhaps map sizes? Small, medium, large.

There are so many features in the game the could be argued over sprint hasn't broken combat or level design anymore than any other feature. People keep saying sprint wasn't part of the original foundation. Are not foundations meant to be built upon?
The problem with trying to reason on the basis of any kind of "triangle" is that there are as many different meanings of "the golden triangle" as there are people who believe that the golden triangle is a meaningful concept.

As someone who doesn't understand why the community has been obsessed with triangles and polygons of various other shapes, the argument you try to make here doesn't have any substance to me. Like, you start with the assumption that groups of three things are good. But why? Why light, heavy, and air vehicles? Why not just light and heavy; or ground, air, and sea; or light ground, medium ground, heavy ground, light air, medium air, and heavy air; or just light ground, heavy ground, light air, and heavy air; or any other arbitrary subdivision of possible vehicle types for that matter? Why these specific three things and not, say, some other four things? Why not just walk and jump; or walk, crouch, and jump; or walk, crouch, jump, and roll?

We're just listing arbitrary sets of semi-related things, but what's the point of it? Just listing a group of three semi-related things, "a triangle", doesn't explain anything.
Battle wrote:
I don't think its too much of a stretch to assume sprint is in Inifinite since at the Chief puts his gun away then sprints out of the pelican. Is this a fair assumption?
No. We see Chief running without guns, or lower his gun, in various cutscenes of the original trilogy. It's just a cutscene animation, not a gameplay animation.
tsassi wrote:
Battle wrote:
Battle wrote:
I don't think its too much of a stretch to assume sprint is in Inifinite since at the Chief puts his gun away then sprints out of the pelican. Is this a fair assumption?
No. We see Chief running without guns, or lower his gun, in various cutscenes of the original trilogy. It's just a cutscene animation, not a gameplay animation.
Didn't someone spot run and ability while chief's armors booting up?
I will say it once again since it was on the first few pages and clearly no one reads them at this point.
Chief has always been sprinting. The original trilogy slowed down the movement and combat , so our non-augmented , non-A.I. enhanced minds , could process the information and react in a timely manner. Could you imagine trying to play Halo at 45 mph? or 25mph? or whatever the "accepted" standard sprint speed of the average spartan?
The original trilogy was built before sprint had become a major mechanic in most game genres , and although their were thoughts to include it , they came to the conclusion that it would just over crowd an already crammed controller setup , and make the game even more alien than it already was (remember , twin stick controls were still a new concept when CE first launched).
They included sprint in Reach (firstly as a test bed for Destiny) as they figured they had given themselves a buffer by making it a prequel. Who iterates from the prequel when you have three main-line games from which to move forward? They even said Reach was a military test bed for advanced technologies , "most of which never made it off Reach". AAs were never meant to be the future of the series. (At least from the anecdotal evidence ,IMO).
I H4Q3R I wrote:
tsassi wrote:
Battle wrote:
Battle wrote:
I don't think its too much of a stretch to assume sprint is in Inifinite since at the Chief puts his gun away then sprints out of the pelican. Is this a fair assumption?
No. We see Chief running without guns, or lower his gun, in various cutscenes of the original trilogy. It's just a cutscene animation, not a gameplay animation.
Didn't someone spot run and ability while chief's armors booting up?
Well, during the boot sequence there's a list of strings WPN_CHK, RUN_CHK, and ABL_CHK. Could these refer to weapons, sprint, and abilities? Sure. They also could not, like, why would you write RUN instead of SPR for sprint? Why distinguish sprint from other abilities?

But assuming that the obvious interpretation is exactly what the person who wrote these intended, what then? Would they make a reveal of the movement mechanics in such an unceremonious way, or is it just a meaningless tease to make the fans speculate? How much about the game's mechanics can we infer from a three-letter string that appears for 30 frames in a sequence 343i knew would be analyzed frame by frame by a relatively small group of people? If I were in that position and had the opportunity to troll a group of people in a cruel but ultimately meaningless way, you bet I would.
tsassi wrote:
I H4Q3R I wrote:
tsassi wrote:
Battle wrote:
Battle wrote:
I don't think its too much of a stretch to assume sprint is in Inifinite since at the Chief puts his gun away then sprints out of the pelican. Is this a fair assumption?
No. We see Chief running without guns, or lower his gun, in various cutscenes of the original trilogy. It's just a cutscene animation, not a gameplay animation.
Didn't someone spot run and ability while chief's armors booting up?
Well, during the boot sequence there's a list of strings WPN_CHK, RUN_CHK, and ABL_CHK. Could these refer to weapons, sprint, and abilities? Sure. They also could not, like, why would you write RUN instead of SPR for sprint? Why distinguish sprint from other abilities?

But assuming that the obvious interpretation is exactly what the person who wrote these intended, what then? Would they make a reveal of the movement mechanics in such an unceremonious way, or is it just a meaningless tease to make the fans speculate? How much about the game's mechanics can we infer from a three-letter string that appears for 30 frames in a sequence 343i knew would be analyzed frame by frame by a relatively small group of people? If I were in that position and had the opportunity to troll a group of people in a cruel but ultimately meaningless way, you bet I would.
That's the part that got Mr, why RUN and not SPR?
RUN could refer to the software of the armor.
I don't even know why I brought this up, it's that one thought bothering me right now, will halo infinite have sprint or not. And when someone does a video on that it just adds fuel to the fire.

On a side note: after the hidden audio was found, did 343 say that there are more secrets in the trailer?
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