Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

The return of classic movement mechanics?

OP A So So Sniper

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 164
  4. 165
  5. 166
  6. 167
  7. 168
  8. ...
  9. 188
This is an old vid that is so relevant to this prolonged discussion. It's only 90 secs, but succinctly explains why H5's "enhanced mobility" is very restrictive, compared to classic gameplay. I encourage you to watch:

Here, take this link on the go! This is why despite fun being subjective, you can't objectively say that h5 (mythic being an exception) hasn't removed fundamental tools from the arena shooter roots classic halo was grounded in. And Imfinite seems to be drawing inspiration heavily from classic halo's, so I hope they do the right thing
I linked the video for 'ya, but frankly everyone visiting the forum half-regularly here has seen it already. Multiple times in fact!

It get re-posted every five pages or so, with good reasons though, I give you that. I've a hard time understanding who still defends sprint and climb after watching it... Even if you disagree, you should at least be able to understand why we're against sprint in Halo!
This is an old vid that is so relevant to this prolonged discussion. It's only 90 secs, but succinctly explains why H5's "enhanced mobility" is very restrictive, compared to classic gameplay. I encourage you to watch:

Here, take this link on the go! This is why despite fun being subjective, you can't objectively say that h5 (mythic being an exception) hasn't removed fundamental tools from the arena shooter roots classic halo was grounded in. And Imfinite seems to be drawing inspiration heavily from classic halo's, so I hope they do the right thing
I linked the video for 'ya, but frankly everyone visitingtthe forum half-regularly here has seen it already. Multiple times in fact! It get re-posted every five pages or so, with good reasons though, I give you that. I've a hard time understanding who still defends sprint and climb after watching it... Even if you disagree, you should at least be able to understand why we're against sprint in Halo!
Thanks for that man. Hopefully 343 considered this when going through their project Sprints for Infinite (pun intended).

Yeah like what you like, but it is undeniable that enhanced movement takes away from the core Halo experience (even in spite of what ppl may believe it adds).

Not against certain abilities being available as modifiers in customs. But to have enhanced movement as the pillar for gameplay, map design and weapon balancing, does not bode well for a faithful 'Halo' experience.
What I mean by the feel of the game was misunderstood. It's not a subjective feeling. You were slow in the old Halo games. I said you always felt slow. That never changed, I just said that it didn't age well for me today.
First of all, what you said exactly was this:
When I hope back on and play Halo 3 or 2 anniversary, I felt like I was slower than I remember.
This lead me to believe that you didn't think the original trilogy was slow at the time. And for good reason, because...
Second: 7m/s isn't slow. It might not be a Spartan's top speed but it certainly doesn't warrant the statement "in Bungie's OG trilogy, you could not even run". Which brings me to...
Third: What annoyed me about RegentTitan45's original comment (and a common misconception I have seen plenty of times) is that supposedly you aren't running just because the gun isn't lowered. It has been suggested raising the BMS, plenty of times, even to H5G's sprint levels, yet people still kept referring to this as "racewalking".
And because 343 catered to this group of people based on their feelings, we now have a Halo franchise that is mechanically broken.

I'm not for or against Sprint. I just want them to make a game where movement is fast.
While I'm personally not opposed to raising the BMS, it needs to be considered what levels are still acceptable. At some point the movement gets so high that the player's aiming will suffer, meaning that either autoaim needs to be increased or shield strength lowered. Both of which would be desastrous for the gameplay.
Celestis wrote:
Third: What annoyed me about RegentTitan45's original comment (and a common misconception I have seen plenty of times) is that supposedly you aren't running just because the gun isn't lowered. It has been suggested raising the BMS, plenty of times, even to H5G's sprint levels, yet people still kept referring to this as "racewalking".
All it would really take is for someone to load MCC or Halo 3 BC, go to Theater take a picture of Chief moving with both feet in the air, and boom, by definition he's running. Unless we're going to change what the word means in the dictionary.

Also he would therefore be disqualified from any racewalking competitions lol.
Celestis wrote:
Snockooz wrote:
Yes Halo 3 sold very well we know this, but Halo 2 a game with practically the exact same gameplay only sold over 8 million. Less than Halo 3, Reach and 4. clearly Halo 3 sold very well but that wasn't because of gameplay if it was Halo 2 would have sold just as well.
At the time of Halo 2's release, the OG Xbox had an install base of roughly 15 Million units.
At the time of Halo 3's release, the Xbox 360 had an install base of roughly 13 Million units.
Halo 2 sold 5+ Million units within the first three weeks.
Halo 3 sold 4.92 Million units within the first three weeks.
Seems pretty similar to me.
The only reason why Halo 3 ended up outselling Halo 2 in the end is because the 360 reached total lifetime sales of 85.8 Million Units while the OG Xbox phased out at 25 Million units sold.
Meaning that in total attach rate, Halo 2 actually was more successful than its sequel.
Halo has always been a Console seller. 1 of the biggest Reasons the OG Xbox ended up selling well was because of Halo CE. With Halo 3's launch the Xbox 360 sale numbers more than doubled. Halo 3 was one of the reasons 360 Sold so well. Also the Only other Shooter game that Came out around in 2004 was Half life 2 and it had no MP. Halo 3 launch along side COD4. 360 also Has a much longer Life time than OG Xbox. OG Xbox was only 4 years. 360 was 7 years. The Xbox 360 had only sold around 30 million console at it's 4th year(2009). Still more but not that much more. Also Halo 2 was backwards comparable with 360 so people could have bought a 360 in 2005 and Halo 2 with it. The Console numbers are not the reason Halo 3 sold so well.
I personally wouldnt want to slowly walk around like halo 3 I like having sprint and being able to clamber and aim down sights not so much a fan of ground pound I rarely use it but I hope halo infinite isnt just halo 3 2020 I'm an original halo player but I'd like to keep halo modern but halo like halo 5 did just not as many abilities dropping ground pound and leaving sprint would be a good compromise for both new and og players
I personally wouldnt want to slowly walk around like halo 3 I like having sprint and being able to clamber and aim down sights not so much a fan of ground pound I rarely use it but I hope halo infinite isnt just halo 3 2020 I'm an original halo player but I'd like to keep halo modern but halo like halo 5 did just not as many abilities dropping ground pound and leaving sprint would be a good compromise for both new and og players
Here's the thing. There isn't a single Halo Trilogy game (Halo CE, 2 or 3) in which you walk around slowly. There are several signs to show that you're running if you can't already tell.
  • Third-Person Spartan animations - The animation at full speed is clearly that of a Spartan running, not walking. To see the Spartan walking, you have to let the analogue stick pull back on the controller so that it's only slightly pushed forward.
  • First-Person Spartan animations when you look down - Again, it's clear the Master Chief / your multiplayer Spartan is running based on the way the legs move and make contact with the ground.
  • Scale - I.e. A Warthog is over five metres long. A marine is six feet tall. Etc. Use the sizes of things you know to work out the distances across environments, then see how quickly it takes for your Spartan to travel those distances.
  • Sniper HUD - The HUD of the Sniper when zoomed in Halo CE and Halo 3 reveals distance and elevation. Again, see how quickly your Spartan closes that gap over those distances. That's running speed.
If you want to feel like you're moving even faster, then the best option would be to somehow increase your FOV. Adding extra buttons that lower your weapon does not improve the game in any way.
Celestis wrote:
What I mean by the feel of the game was misunderstood. It's not a subjective feeling. You were slow in the old Halo games. I said you always felt slow. That never changed, I just said that it didn't age well for me today.
First of all, what you said exactly was this:
When I hope back on and play Halo 3 or 2 anniversary, I felt like I was slower than I remember.
This lead me to believe that you didn't think the original trilogy was slow at the time. And for good reason, because...
Second: 7m/s isn't slow. It might not be a Spartan's top speed but it certainly doesn't warrant the statement "in Bungie's OG trilogy, you could not even run". Which brings me to...
Third: What annoyed me about RegentTitan45's original comment (and a common misconception I have seen plenty of times) is that supposedly you aren't running just because the gun isn't lowered. It has been suggested raising the BMS, plenty of times, even to H5G's sprint levels, yet people still kept referring to this as "racewalking".
And because 343 catered to this group of people based on their feelings, we now have a Halo franchise that is mechanically broken.

I'm not for or against Sprint. I just want them to make a game where movement is fast.
While I'm personally not opposed to raising the BMS, it needs to be considered what levels are still acceptable. At some point the movement gets so high that the player's aiming will suffer, meaning that either autoaim needs to be increased or shield strength lowered. Both of which would be desastrous for the gameplay.
Ok my intentions was to say that the older halos always felt slow and today feel slower.

If you want to talk about this using an actual speed then fine. 7m/s is about 16mph. For a spartan in miolner armor, that is not enough. Ok, so you have your gun up always that's great. Why make Spartans reach up to 40mph if there was never a use for it. It's because there is a use for it. In multiplayer, having the ability to up your speed at the risk of lowering your weapon is a mechanic just like any other. I realize that people say well now the maps are just bigger and more open ended to accommodate for Sprint. Well same can be said the other way. Most maps designed without Sprint tend to be smaller and have lots of corners or obstacles. They are like that to accommodate the perception of slow movement. Are there old maps I love, yes off course, but I also like some new maps as well. Both were made to fit their movement.

Lastly I can say Halo 4 was mechanically broken. However, Halo 5 is not. Spartan charge is the only ability that I would say is annoying, but not broken. The rest of the movement mechanics play a role in gameplay and raise the skill gap. Learning the map, different routes, skill jumps, and a focus on precision weapons and melee are still there. These are the things that have always been in Halo and are still exclusive to it. If you don't like it that is fine, but it is not mechanically broken. You may not think it's how Halo should be and that's fine as well.
If you want to talk about this using an actual speed then fine. 7m/s is about 16mph. For a spartan in miolner armor, that is not enough. Ok, so you have your gun up always that's great. Why make Spartans reach up to 40mph if there was never a use for it. It's because there is a use for it.
Where are we moving at 40 mph again?

In multiplayer, having the ability to up your speed at the risk of lowering your weapon is a mechanic just like any other.
Well, you're not really just lowering your weapon.
Turn radius introduced, strafing and backpedling disabled.
In Halo 5 your shield's recharge countdown is reset and paused.

Just like any other? I'm not really sure what you mean here.
Feels like it could be applied to anything added to the game, regardless if its effect on gameplay.

I realize that people say well now the maps are just bigger and more open ended to accommodate for Sprint. Well same can be said the other way. Most maps designed without Sprint tend to be smaller and have lots of corners or obstacles. They are like that to accommodate the perception of slow movement. Are there old maps I love, yes off course, but I also like some new maps as well. Both were made to fit their movement.
With the difference here that it's entirely possible, and was done, in Halo CE, 2 and 3, to make large open ended maps without sprint, providing a good mix of smaller close quarter maps, and larger long range maps.

Lastly I can say Halo 4 was mechanically broken.
Why?
Aren't they just mechanics like any other?

However, Halo 5 is not. Spartan charge is the only ability that I would say is annoying, but not broken. The rest of the movement mechanics play a role in gameplay and raise the skill gap.
Thrust and sprint away, two button presses to decrease a disadvantage.
Clamber, get a second chance on most jumps.

I'd also assume that weapon auto aim features took into account these mechanics, so that it wouldn't be too difficult hitting a spastic target.

One of the more interesting things regarding "skill gap", to me atleast, would be that, some games which do have that, a good skill gap, tend to become popular in the competitive aspect.

But, how much depth did these mechanics add to Halo? At the increase of complexity?
I personally love spartan abilities and I actually hope they include more in Infinite.
Naqser wrote:
Thrust and sprint away, two button presses to decrease a disadvantage.
Clamber, get a second chance on most jumps.

I'd also assume that weapon auto aim features took into account these mechanics, so that it wouldn't be too difficult hitting a spastic target.

One of the more interesting things regarding "skill gap", to me atleast, would be that, some games which do have that, a good skill gap, tend to become popular in the competitive aspect.

But, how much depth did these mechanics add to Halo? At the increase of complexity?
Or increase an advantage. Clamber that allows for Drop back Clambering as well ans numinous skill jumps.
Auto Aim? You mean bullet magnetism? Yeah, beside the Sniper rifle which is a broken smart gun that defies physics, Halo 5's weapons don't have anymore bullet magnetism than Halos 2 and 3. If anything some have more consistent bullet magnetism.
No they increase the skill gap by adding variety to how you can engage both an enemy and the Map itself.
Here's the thing. There isn't a single Halo Trilogy game (Halo CE, 2 or 3) in which you walk around slowly. There are several signs to show that you're running if you can't already tell.
  • Third-Person Spartan animations - The animation at full speed is clearly that of a Spartan running, not walking. To see the Spartan walking, you have to let the analogue stick pull back on the controller so that it's only slightly pushed forward.
  • First-Person Spartan animations when you look down - Again, it's clear the Master Chief / your multiplayer Spartan is running based on the way the legs move and make contact with the ground.
  • Scale - I.e. A Warthog is over five metres long. A marine is six feet tall. Etc. Use the sizes of things you know to work out the distances across environments, then see how quickly it takes for your Spartan to travel those distances.
  • Sniper HUD - The HUD of the Sniper when zoomed in Halo CE and Halo 3 reveals distance and elevation. Again, see how quickly your Spartan closes that gap over those distances. That's running speed.
If you want to feel like you're moving even faster, then the best option would be to somehow increase your FOV. Adding extra buttons that lower your weapon does not improve the game in any way.
Yeah Sorry That is not running. That is something in between speed walking and jogging and it sure as blam ain't sprinting. You want to see what a Spartan should look like at top speed? Here.
Warthogs aren't on every map and they cant be used by everyone.
FOV doesn't increase your speed it just makes it look like your moving faster cuz you can see more and high fov can give people headaches and nausea. It also looks really weird.
Naqser wrote:
If you want to talk about this using an actual speed then fine. 7m/s is about 16mph. For a spartan in miolner armor, that is not enough. Ok, so you have your gun up always that's great. Why make Spartans reach up to 40mph if there was never a use for it. It's because there is a use for it.
Where are we moving at 40 mph again?
In almost every other piece of Halo media feacturing Spartans that isnt the games.
Naqser wrote:
If you want to talk about this using an actual speed then fine. 7m/s is about 16mph. For a spartan in miolner armor, that is not enough. Ok, so you have your gun up always that's great. Why make Spartans reach up to 40mph if there was never a use for it. It's because there is a use for it.
Where are we moving at 40 mph again?

In multiplayer, having the ability to up your speed at the risk of lowering your weapon is a mechanic just like any other.
Well, you're not really just lowering your weapon.
Turn radius introduced, strafing and backpedling disabled.
In Halo 5 your shield's recharge countdown is reset and paused.

Just like any other? I'm not really sure what you mean here.
Feels like it could be applied to anything added to the game, regardless if its effect on gameplay.

I realize that people say well now the maps are just bigger and more open ended to accommodate for Sprint. Well same can be said the other way. Most maps designed without Sprint tend to be smaller and have lots of corners or obstacles. They are like that to accommodate the perception of slow movement. Are there old maps I love, yes off course, but I also like some new maps as well. Both were made to fit their movement.
With the difference here that it's entirely possible, and was done, in Halo CE, 2 and 3, to make large open ended maps without sprint, providing a good mix of smaller close quarter maps, and larger long range maps.

Lastly I can say Halo 4 was mechanically broken.
Why?
Aren't they just mechanics like any other?

However, Halo 5 is not. Spartan charge is the only ability that I would say is annoying, but not broken. The rest of the movement mechanics play a role in gameplay and raise the skill gap.
Thrust and sprint away, two button presses to decrease a disadvantage.
Clamber, get a second chance on most jumps.

I'd also assume that weapon auto aim features took into account these mechanics, so that it wouldn't be too difficult hitting a spastic target.

One of the more interesting things regarding "skill gap", to me atleast, would be that, some games which do have that, a good skill gap, tend to become popular in the competitive aspect.

But, how much depth did these mechanics add to Halo? At the increase of complexity?
When I was talking about 40 mph, I was talking about the lore because the person before me gave actual speeds. We don't ever go that fast in the games which is fine. Point is there is a need to have a change in speed.

All the things you listed when sprinting such as lowered turn radius, no back peddling, lowered weapon, and shield regen only add to what I was saying. It cannot simply be spammed and using it incorrectly comes at a cost. This can be said for all the abilites.

Regarding the big maps in older games. While many of them played okay, they played better in reach. Bloodgulch is a good example of this. The base movement was slow and basically forced you to take a vehicle to get somewhere. Everyone would know exactly where you were at because of it. Sprint does not have to be the solution to this. I'm just pointing out that the base movement speed in the older halos were at their worst in big maps.

Mechanically broken which I thought explains itself I guess does not. For a mechanic to be broken means it is not balanced within the gameplay. A mechanic can be overpowered or completely useless to be broken. Halo 4 mechanics were broken. Promethean vision had no bad side effects. Sprint was easily spammed with the only real downside being lowering your weapon. But even the risk of that was lowered because shields recharged while sprinting. This meant you can just keep sprinting until your out of danger. It also allowed you to Sprint in the middle of a fight. That is a broken mechanic. The thruster in Halo 4 was so useless that no one used it. That was a bad mechanic. It was just there and was very poorly implemented. Then there were classes in the game and kill streaks. This took away all the fundamentals of Halo mp. It took away even starts, map movement/control due to classes, and lowered the skill gap. So yes, it is mechanically broken.

You don't have enough experience with Halo 5 if your saying just thrust or Sprint away. First of all, your spartan will not start to Sprint if your being shot at. If you choose to shoot a spartan already sprinting and they get to cover, that is on you. That's the same as shooting someone in Halo 3 right before they turn a corner. If you can aim you don't need a huge gap to kill a sprinting spartan and anyone who plays Halo 5 alot knows this. Specially in diamond and up. Thruster is a one time use in a fight. In old halos we strafe, jump, and crouch in a fight. Now you can thruster as well. See a grenade coming, thruster out of the way. If the grenade was thrown correctly, thruster won't be able to keep you undamaged. It will just reduce the damage taken. It also plays a role in map movement. Their are skill jumps used that need thruster. Again. Clamber is to improve fluidity. There is no reason to go all the way around certain obstacle. Ramps are a great example. Just clamber half way up a ramp rather than having to go near the bottom of it. It is not a second chance either. There are a large amount of jumps that don't need clamber. If you took the time to play and master the game as many did with Halo 3 you would know that. Those that learned the map will not be slowed down by a clamber animation or lower their weapon. There are certain skill jumps that require it. However, these jumps have to be practiced.

The skill gap in Halo 5 is huge. The skill gap also is clearly visible in every aspect. This includes aim. Higher level players have ridiculously good aim compared to lower levels. Many people have horrible aim in Halo 5 and the bullet magnetism did not save them. You will notice that every rank up has an increase in aim. The skill gap also shows in other ways. Map movement, map control, map knowledge such as skill jumps and routes, and decision making. All of these things are what we all loved in the old Halo games and they are still here.

Halo 5 had a good HCS run. Pros are still learning things to this day. Proximity talks about that in a video he has. It is not overly complex like it might seem. The mechanics in Halo 5 mold together we'll. It is more complex than the original trilogy but I would not say it's over board. The reason the skill gap is huge is because the players are able to implement what they actually have in mind more than they could in the older games. It's not just the small increase in complexity
Snockooz wrote:
Also the Only other Shooter game that Came out around in 2004 was Half life 2 and it had no MP.
Counterstrike Source and Unreal Tournament 2004(!) would like to have a word with you.

Snockooz wrote:
The Console numbers are not the reason Halo 3 sold so well.
No, but the console numbers are the reason why Halo 2 sold so little.
Celestis wrote:
Snockooz wrote:
Also the Only other Shooter game that Came out around in 2004 was Half life 2 and it had no MP.
Counterstrike Source and Unreal Tournament 2004(!) would like to have a word with you.

Snockooz wrote:
The Console numbers are not the reason Halo 3 sold so well.
No, but the console numbers are the reason why Halo 2 sold so little.
No its Not, like i said You could still play Halo 2 on the 360 I know I did, It came out a year after Halo 2. Its possible people played Halo 2 more on 360 than they did on OG Xbox. OG Xbox Sold about 25 million and by the time Halo 3 came out(3 years) 360 had sold about 13 million that's 38 million consoles halo 2 could be played on. By the time Halo Reach came out in 2010(also 3 years) sales numbers for 360 were about 40 million. The sales of the consoles that Both games were on during their heyday seem pretty similar to me.
You have also provided zero proof to indicate that the console sale numbers were the reason. Simply stating OG xbox sold less proves nothing.

This post has been hidden.

0
If you want to talk about this using an actual speed then fine. 7m/s is about 16mph. For a spartan in miolner armor, that is not enough. Ok, so you have your gun up always that's great. Why make Spartans reach up to 40mph if there was never a use for it. It's because there is a use for it.
To be fair, this number is only first mentioned in Ghosts of Onyx, which came out after Halo CE and Halo 2. The sole mention of Spartan speeds before that were John tearing his Achilles tendon because he was running too fast in his Mjolnir (65mph). It was never established before what the maximum sustainable speed was.

Most maps designed without Sprint tend to be smaller and have lots of corners or obstacles.
Oh, really?
Boarding Action.
Derelict.
Hang 'Em High.
Ascension.
Relic.
Construct.
Isolation.
Narrows.
Snowbound.
I deliberately omitted maps with vehicular combat that are larger by necessity (and yes, I know that there are vehicle spawns on Relic, Snowbound and Isolation, however the maps were mostly used in rotation without them). I have also left out some where it's debatable if they have an unusual number of "corners or obstacles". (Such as Damnation, Battle Creek or Epitaph, etc.)
Sure, there have also always been mazes like Chiron TL-34, but that wasn't the norm - nor the exception. Every Halo game had always had maps of all sizes.

Lastly I can say Halo 4 was mechanically broken. However, Halo 5 is not.
Yes it is, it still has sprint. Every game with sprint is broken into two parts: "Movement mode" and "Combat mode". That's fine for most franchises that weren't intentionally designed with Run'n'Gun in mind.

You don't have enough experience with Halo 5 if your saying just thrust or Sprint away.
From the attacker's point of view.
From the runner's point of view.

The skill gap in Halo 5 is huge.
No, the skill floor is huge. The gap between skill floor and ceiling is comparatively small, as there are only very few advanced mechanics, such as extending your jumps with hover, spring jumping, the aforementioned drop clamber, etc. And most of these aren't mechanically challenging but just not obvious to new players.
Snockooz wrote:
Auto Aim? You mean bullet magnetism? Yeah, beside the Sniper rifle which is a broken smart gun that defies physics, Halo 5's weapons don't have anymore bullet magnetism than Halos 2 and 3.
Maybe not, but the autoaim in the game is still insane.
EDIT: Forgot to link the video. Fix'd.

Snockooz wrote:
Yeah Sorry That is not running.
Well done, picking a gif from a map where you literally cannot see the feet because they disappear within the sand.
Here's one from Halo CE instead.
And here's the Halo 2 Regret ending cutscene.
Both of these are the same animations (and speed) as in standard gameplay, the difference only being the lack of a gun.
I've even seen people ask why Chief can sprint(!) in this cutscene when he can't during gameplay, just because people (wrongly) expect the arms to shake when running.

Snockooz wrote:
In almost every other piece of Halo media feacturing Spartans that isnt the games.
These media also show Spartans being able to shoot while sprinting, and at higher speeds than in the games.
(On a side note, the running animation in this scene also looks the same as in the games. I assume they got all the character and gun models directly from the developers and just modified them for visual fidelity.)
If you want a canonically correct Halo game, remove sprint and up the BMS. Fine with me.
Snockooz wrote:
No its Not, like i said You could still play Halo 2 on the 360 I know I did, It came out a year after Halo 2. Its possible people played Halo 2 more on 360 than they did on OG Xbox.
Possible, but not verified.

Snockooz wrote:
OG Xbox Sold about 25 million and by the time Halo 3 came out(3 years) 360 had sold about 13 million that's 38 million consoles halo 2 could be played on. By the time Halo Reach came out in 2010(also 3 years) sales numbers for 360 were about 40 million. The sales of the consoles that Both games were on during their heyday seem pretty similar to me.
You have also provided zero proof to indicate that the console sale numbers were the reason. Simply stating OG xbox sold less proves nothing.
Even disregarding the fact that there is overlap between people who bought an Xbox 1 and an Xbox 360, meaning that the numbers of unique players could still be as "low" as 25M.... there was no boost in sales from the release of the 360. By August 2007, Halo 2 had sold "over 8 Million copies". This number, however, had already been reached on November 8, 2005, some weeks before the 360 released. Meaning the vast majority of first hand(!) sales was done on the Xbox 1.
Enough proof for you?
Celestis wrote:
If you want to talk about this using an actual speed then fine. 7m/s is about 16mph. For a spartan in miolner armor, that is not enough. Ok, so you have your gun up always that's great. Why make Spartans reach up to 40mph if there was never a use for it. It's because there is a use for it.
To be fair, this number is only first mentioned in Ghosts of Onyx, which came out after Halo CE and Halo 2. The sole mention of Spartan speeds before that were John tearing his Achilles tendon because he was running too fast in his Mjolnir (65mph). It was never established before what the maximum sustainable speed was.

Most maps designed without Sprint tend to be smaller and have lots of corners or obstacles.
Oh, really?
Boarding Action.
Derelict.
Hang 'Em High.
Ascension.
Relic.
Construct.
Isolation.
Narrows.
Snowbound.
I deliberately omitted maps with vehicular combat that are larger by necessity (and yes, I know that there are vehicle spawns on Relic, Snowbound and Isolation, however the maps were mostly used in rotation without them). I have also left out some where it's debatable if they have an unusual number of "corners or obstacles". (Such as Damnation, Battle Creek or Epitaph, etc.)
Sure, there have also always been mazes like Chiron TL-34, but that wasn't the norm - nor the exception. Every Halo game had always had maps of all sizes.

Lastly I can say Halo 4 was mechanically broken. However, Halo 5 is not.
Yes it is, it still has sprint. Every game with sprint is broken into two parts: "Movement mode" and "Combat mode". That's fine for most franchises that weren't intentionally designed with Run'n'Gun in mind.

You don't have enough experience with Halo 5 if your saying just thrust or Sprint away.
From the attacker's point of view.
From the runner's point of view.

The skill gap in Halo 5 is huge.
No, the skill floor is huge. The gap between skill floor and ceiling is comparatively small, as there are only very few advanced mechanics, such as extending your jumps with hover, spring jumping, the aforementioned drop clamber, etc. And most of these aren't mechanically challenging but just not obvious to new players.
most of the maps you showed show an open area but can never be played there. Ascension was played along the outskirts and from tower to tower. Due to the lack of movement, your best option was on the rim of the map. And the rim had short sight lines to accommodate the movement. Snowbound was fought mainly underground due to the same reasons. I could go on.

The videos you showed are actually useless. As I said you can't Sprint if being shot at. They thrustered away and then blindly started sprinting. That just does not happen. 9 times out of ten they will die. From the first person view it's even worse. Just spray with the AR at someone already moveing at top speed about to go around a corner. The problem is not Sprint but the person playing. Why not just get a headshot and be done. Their shield was obviously down. It's a troll video and not representative of actual matches. If you ever played enough of Halo 5 or saw any of HCS you would know sprinting doesn't work that way.

The skill gap is huge. It's the highest skill gap a Halo has had. It's not the skill floor that is different. It's the same skill floor as any Halo. Why should it be different. The skill floor of any Halo is understanding the basics. This means an understanding of a focus on precision weapons, melee damage, grenades, and shield health. That is the skill floor for any Halo and it's not any different for Halo 5. Should we take out aim being part of the skill gap in halo 3 because everyone looked like they were moving to slow? Or should we make the skill floor a minimum of knowing the best areas in a map to crouch jump? No, off course not, that's ridiculous right. All Halo games have the same skill floor.

Really, you think the movement or skill jumps in Halo 5 are not challenging. That's fine, were they ever a challenge in old games. We had crouch jumping being the main one and then what. Knowing which ledges we can magically stand on to get to places. That is not difficult either. The movement at a base level in Halo 5 is not challenging but the skill jumps are, some are really hard and others are decent.

Just because you don't have your gun up does not make it a separate mode. Again, Sprint is a tool, I can't stress this enough. Most of the game is not spent sprinting. That's because having your gun up is important. However, when my friend spots the enemy and tells me, I can now close the gap and flank by changing my speed. It's a tool used for it's purposes.

Look, I enjoy both styles of Halo, I really do. But you can't keep over simplifying advanced movement. It works as a Halo game but I understand you may not like it. That's is fine. Personally I'll be happy with infinite with or without advanced movement. I would prefer to keep thruster and would like a higher base movement speed if Sprint is gone. Then, as long as the basic rules of Halo CE, 2,3, and 5 are there such as even starts, I'll be happy
Ascension was played along the outskirts and from tower to tower. Due to the lack of movement, your best option was on the rim of the map. And the rim had short sight lines to accommodate the movement. Snowbound was fought mainly underground due to the same reasons. I could go on.
Ascension gave you the option to move slowly around the edges of the map in cover or cross faster across the dish at the risk of being exposed. This is the so often lauded "risk vs. reward" system used to defend sprint, and it was achieved purely by map design, without butchering the core mechanics.
Snowbound had the overshield and camo spawn outside the maps, encouraging/forcing the player to go outside or lose an advantage. Weapons spawned usually where they weren't useful, such as the beam rifle spawning inside the base but the plasma pistol or needler spawning on top. So you had to go outside either to get the weapons that were effective inside, or stay outside to make the most use of the weapons you got inside.
I can also go on, if you want to go on.

The skill gap is huge. It's the highest skill gap a Halo has had.
No. No, it's really, really not. The difference between an intermediate player and a high-rank player is very small due to all the tools that are set in place by the game for you to suck less. Sprint, clamber, Autoaim, Bullet Magnetism, etc. I'm not saying the gap is the smallest it has been in the franchise, but it's definitely in the lower half. Maybe only undermined by Halo 4, because of the killstreaks and the resulting snowball effect during matches. The highest skill gap, however, is still in Halo CE, arguably Halo 2 if you include all the button combos.

The skill floor of any Halo is understanding the basics.
Correct.
H5G has more basics than previous games, with the addition of new mechanics (and I'm not just talking movement, but also Ground Pound, ADS, etc.) so there is more to learn, so there is a higher skill floor.
The original Halo games were "easy to learn, hard to master". H5G, however, is "hard to learn, slightly harder to master".
And no, I'm not just talking from me sucking at the game. There is a huge amount of users complaining online, including right here in these forums, about the game being "too sweaty".

Really, you think the movement or skill jumps in Halo 5 are not challenging. That's fine, were they ever a challenge in old games. We had crouch jumping being the main one and then what. Knowing which ledges we can magically stand on to get to places. That is not difficult either. The movement at a base level in Halo 5 is not challenging but the skill jumps are, some are really hard and others are decent.
The jumps themselves were not challenging in the original trilogy. The challenge came from learning to do them, say, backwards, while still fighting the enemy. That is also a difference between skill floor and skill ceiling. H5G hardly has any jumps that can be done without clamber, so there is no skill to be learned here, because A) clamber is an inherently forgiving mechanic and B) you're forced to face the wall to do them, disrupting combat and thus even removing a skill that was present in previous games.

Just because you don't have your gun up does not make it a separate mode.
Fine, call it "movement phase" and "combat phase" if you want to. It doesn't change the fact that the gameplay is now fractured into two distinct pieces that originally accompanied one another.

It works as a Halo game
No, it doesn't. Halo games are built around Run'n'Gun. Recent titles don't have Run'n'Gun. That has nothing to do with me liking it or not.
I also don't like sprint in other games, such as CoD, but it fits into those game because everything is balanced in such a way to supplement everything else. Case in point, TTK is so low that sprinting in the wrong situation leaves you dead. The last few "Halo" games, however, were still balanced similarly to the series roots but now have (a) mechanic(s) that completely undermine(s) the concept. You may not like the videos posted, which - admittedly - were making fun of the mechanic, but they are still factually correct: It is ridiculously easy to run away in "modern Halo", even after desprint was added, thanks to stuff such as thrusters, clamber and let's not forget sprint now being literally infinite.
Vice versa, I do like SWAT (preferrably without sprint). But I would never argue for it to be the basis of Halo games, because removing the shields across the board would completely alter the gameplay, as it does, well, in SWAT. It's fine for one or two modes but it has no buisness being in, say, BTB or even campaign.
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 164
  4. 165
  5. 166
  6. 167
  7. 168
  8. ...
  9. 188