Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

The return of classic movement mechanics?

OP A So So Sniper

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Delta5931 wrote:
Vinman720 wrote:
In my opinion, this game has a really high chance of bringing back the classic gameplay so many old Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
please not... if that's the case then I'll skip this one.
You people are so confusing to me. How can you say you liked Halo? Please go put some actual time into Halo 2 and Halo 3 and you will realize not EVERY MODERN SHOOTER NEEDS TO HAVE SPRINT. Why is that hard to understand. COD does it and suddenly its a norm? There are other ways to innovate gameplay. Look at DOOM. It is such a unique FPS gameplay and Halo used to have that. This is frightening.
Yet DOOM is so different from the original game, they did it right, Halo also did it right, the thing is this bunch of people wallowing in nostalgia cause Halo 2 and Halo 3 were the most successful games at the moment. H5 was a success, it has maintained player population for many years. These complainers comparing it to H2-3 levels just don't understand how much of a different era it is.

The community complains, yet they're a small percentage of the players. Their opinion and input is really important, but it's not be-all, specially if they can't get over a 15 year old game.
DOOM maintains the core of what made DOOM 1 and 2 good though. Just get in there, shoot all the stuff, and leave. Halo 5 is nearly unrecognizable when put next to Halo 3 or Halo 2. I don't think anyone is wallowing in nostalgia. Halo 2 and Halo 3 kept their player-base very well. Also, Halo 5 is probably a success because it was the only new Halo game released on the Xbox One and was the only one that actually worked on launch.

Also, Citation Needed for your last paragraph.
Campaign wise there isn't much difference in the Halo core. As for the Arena shooter core in MP, it has changed, when it did the most on H4 it wasn't well taken and a failure, yet it came back in H5 and it keeps core gameplay with new mechanics, which is what Doom does. I have rarely seen complains on Halo's campaign gameplay, the story is a different thing. In the end, let's see how much population Doom Eternal has in 4 years and how it compares to today's H5.. I don't think Doom's MP is even a deal.

As I say, 2 and 3 kept their base cause the era was so much different, Live was new, H2 was the first of it's kind, there weren't many other competitors, there were less games, etc... times change.

I don't have the citation and I won't do the numbers, but I'm pretty sure that maybe even less than 1% of the halo players have participated in this topic. You're free to do the math if you want to.
I think you are severely underestimating the amount of classic Halo gameplay fans. Most of them are not simply nostalgia mongers, they just like the way Halo played in the past and don't like how it plays now.

This idea that the classic Halo fans are a minority is very worrying to me. On waypoint, it looks more like that due to the fact that most people on waypoint are fans of the CURRENT games, while classic fans wouldn't bother posting on forums for a game they don't play. But at the end of the day the player base and community was significantly larger for the older games. This is not to say that the new games are objectively worse, but that there is a LARGE market for a classic Halo gameplay styled game, and that demand is not really reflected well on Waypoint. Look at classic Halo players like Ninja who have left the series with the recent installments, but who frequently express desire for a classic Halo game. Similarly, on YouTube you will find a large proportion of channels expressing a desire to play classic Halo. These people have large fanbases and large influence. People do want this, and that isn't to say we should just ignore all the newer fans, but classic fans have been starved of content for years now.

This is something I hope 343 is noticing, and that a classic Halo game would likely do extremely well and I hope they don't take the Waypoint feedback as gospel. Gotta be aware of the sample set.
saifa117 wrote:
Halo TP wrote:
I think Halo Infinite should have a return of everything Spartan and Armor Abilities. Equal starts and Reach / Halo 4 style Custom Loadouts for Custom Games so players have a choice of a game session they want to set up. But Equal Starts only for Matchmaking.
the one abilities to remove is spartan charge and the game is 100% ready
Both Spartan Charge and Ground Pound both need removing. Keep Sprint, Slide, Clamber and Thrust. All Armor Abilities from Reach and Halo 4 for Custom Games all need to make a comeback ~ Armor Lock, Jet Pack, Drop Shield, Active Camo, Hologram, Evade, Hardlight Shield, Promethian Vision, Autosentry, Regeneration Field.
thats quite a bold opinion, with little explanation... and starting the list off with *armor lock* out of all the abilities you could have mentioned first. Do you have any idea how conflicted the community is about armor lock? All reasoning made against "advanced movement" double goes for armor lock.
(and then I realized you mentioned "for custom games" . If by that you mean not competitive matchmaking then sure more options are great.)

Although I like variety, I actually dont think going back to those armor abilities is a good idea. We already have a game that has those. I rather advaocate for new things... or old things with a spin on them. Example: halo reach had the drop sheild which was pretty much a nerfed bubble sheild but you could deploy it multiple times.
Another example: Halo 4 had thruster pack which pretty much was a worse evade. . . Im not saying that was a good thing. Im just saying innovation in that manner, without the degrading is in my opinion a good idea.

However there are somethings fundamentally tied to the univere that cant really change much... like active camo.... only active camo from your list lol. But take this for instance. Instead of auto sentry, how about depolying a turret that has the option to be manned.
Or instead of promethian vision, how about an sonar echo blast that shows enemies for a moment on your motion tracker even if they were crouching?

And when you mention those things ... are those map pickups? or are we going back to loadouts?

Steering back on topic:
If thrust returns I want a serious reworking of it...
and im actually kind of optimistic in that it probably will be.

Going back to what we had is most likely not going to happen imo... nor do i even want that.
I agree that usually armor abilities have been broken and can alter map design, HOWEVER, what do you think of armor abilities only being present in large modes like Warzone and BTB? 4v4 Arena could be locked to either just a reworked thrust as an armor ability or no armor ability at all. Thus classic gameplay would exist in the competitive scene with smaller maps, while larger maps can offer more casual and unique gameplay experiences, all the while enhancing custom games.

I have been thinking more about this option lately and I think it would work very well, lemme know what you think. I personally want a classic Halo game but this might be a good midpoint because I often see people in here referencing BTB as being too slow without sprint.
There is no limit to what the speed can be. Sprint is the speed limiting mechanic because you HAVE to move slower in order to shoot or move in any direction except forwards.
See, and that makes sense to us. Moving "slower" to fight and fire, and sprinting for mobility and getting to a place quicker. The point of sprinting isn't to zip around the map firing wildly like it's DOOM.
Regardless of if YOU like that change, it is SIGNIFICANTLY different from what Halo was known for in its glory days. I think looking at these abilities from a realism or lore perspective is ridiculous and is blatantly ignoring how these changes alter base gameplay.

Those who drop significant time into the older games will see that it forces them to change the way they play, and the gameplay is really great. I used to be in your same boat, but after putting a lot of time into H3 I understand that the new games don't compare.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making posts that do not contribute to the topic at hand.
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I mean... you're here aren't you? So clearly you're interested in being drawn back into it.
Vinman720 wrote:
Delta5931 wrote:
Vinman720 wrote:
In my opinion, this game has a really high chance of bringing back the classic gameplay so many old Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
please not... if that's the case then I'll skip this one.
You people are so confusing to me. How can you say you liked Halo? Please go put some actual time into Halo 2 and Halo 3 and you will realize not EVERY MODERN SHOOTER NEEDS TO HAVE SPRINT. Why is that hard to understand. COD does it and suddenly its a norm? There are other ways to innovate gameplay. Look at DOOM. It is such a unique FPS gameplay and Halo used to have that. This is frightening.
Yet DOOM is so different from the original game, they did it right, Halo also did it right, the thing is this bunch of people wallowing in nostalgia cause Halo 2 and Halo 3 were the most successful games at the moment. H5 was a success, it has maintained player population for many years. These complainers comparing it to H2-3 levels just don't understand how much of a different era it is.

The community complains, yet they're a small percentage of the players. Their opinion and input is really important, but it's not be-all, specially if they can't get over a 15 year old game.
DOOM maintains the core of what made DOOM 1 and 2 good though. Just get in there, shoot all the stuff, and leave. Halo 5 is nearly unrecognizable when put next to Halo 3 or Halo 2. I don't think anyone is wallowing in nostalgia. Halo 2 and Halo 3 kept their player-base very well. Also, Halo 5 is probably a success because it was the only new Halo game released on the Xbox One and was the only one that actually worked on launch.

Also, Citation Needed for your last paragraph.
Campaign wise there isn't much difference in the Halo core. As for the Arena shooter core in MP, it has changed, when it did the most on H4 it wasn't well taken and a failure, yet it came back in H5 and it keeps core gameplay with new mechanics, which is what Doom does. I have rarely seen complains on Halo's campaign gameplay, the story is a different thing. In the end, let's see how much population Doom Eternal has in 4 years and how it compares to today's H5.. I don't think Doom's MP is even a deal.

As I say, 2 and 3 kept their base cause the era was so much different, Live was new, H2 was the first of it's kind, there weren't many other competitors, there were less games, etc... times change.

I don't have the citation and I won't do the numbers, but I'm pretty sure that maybe even less than 1% of the halo players have participated in this topic. You're free to do the math if you want to.
I think you are severely underestimating the amount of classic Halo gameplay fans. Most of them are not simply nostalgia mongers, they just like the way Halo played in the past and don't like how it plays now.

This idea that the classic Halo fans are a minority is very worrying to me. On waypoint, it looks more like that due to the fact that most people on waypoint are fans of the CURRENT games, while classic fans wouldn't bother posting on forums for a game they don't play. But at the end of the day the player base and community was significantly larger for the older games. This is not to say that the new games are objectively worse, but that there is a LARGE market for a classic Halo gameplay styled game, and that demand is not really reflected well on Waypoint. Look at classic Halo players like Ninja who have left the series with the recent installments, but who frequently express desire for a classic Halo game. Similarly, on YouTube you will find a large proportion of channels expressing a desire to play classic Halo. These people have large fanbases and large influence. People do want this, and that isn't to say we should just ignore all the newer fans, but classic fans have been starved of content for years now.

This is something I hope 343 is noticing, and that a classic Halo game would likely do extremely well and I hope they don't take the Waypoint feedback as gospel. Gotta be aware of the sample set.
Please don't post multiple time in a row. If you need to add more information or quote other users, you can edit your last post. Thanks
Vinman720 wrote:
saifa117 wrote:
Halo TP wrote:
I think Halo Infinite should have a return of everything Spartan and Armor Abilities. Equal starts and Reach / Halo 4 style Custom Loadouts for Custom Games so players have a choice of a game session they want to set up. But Equal Starts only for Matchmaking.
the one abilities to remove is spartan charge and the game is 100% ready
Both Spartan Charge and Ground Pound both need removing. Keep Sprint, Slide, Clamber and Thrust. All Armor Abilities from Reach and Halo 4 for Custom Games all need to make a comeback ~ Armor Lock, Jet Pack, Drop Shield, Active Camo, Hologram, Evade, Hardlight Shield, Promethian Vision, Autosentry, Regeneration Field.
thats quite a bold opinion, with little explanation... and starting the list off with *armor lock* out of all the abilities you could have mentioned first. Do you have any idea how conflicted the community is about armor lock? All reasoning made against "advanced movement" double goes for armor lock.
(and then I realized you mentioned "for custom games" . If by that you mean not competitive matchmaking then sure more options are great.)

Although I like variety, I actually dont think going back to those armor abilities is a good idea. We already have a game that has those. I rather advaocate for new things... or old things with a spin on them. Example: halo reach had the drop sheild which was pretty much a nerfed bubble sheild but you could deploy it multiple times.
Another example: Halo 4 had thruster pack which pretty much was a worse evade. . . Im not saying that was a good thing. Im just saying innovation in that manner, without the degrading is in my opinion a good idea.

However there are somethings fundamentally tied to the univere that cant really change much... like active camo.... only active camo from your list lol. But take this for instance. Instead of auto sentry, how about depolying a turret that has the option to be manned.
Or instead of promethian vision, how about an sonar echo blast that shows enemies for a moment on your motion tracker even if they were crouching?

And when you mention those things ... are those map pickups? or are we going back to loadouts?

Steering back on topic:
If thrust returns I want a serious reworking of it...
and im actually kind of optimistic in that it probably will be.

Going back to what we had is most likely not going to happen imo... nor do i even want that.
I agree that usually armor abilities have been broken and can alter map design, HOWEVER, what do you think of armor abilities only being present in large modes like Warzone and BTB? 4v4 Arena could be locked to either just a reworked thrust as an armor ability or no armor ability at all. Thus classic gameplay would exist in the competitive scene with smaller maps, while larger maps can offer more casual and unique gameplay experiences, all the while enhancing custom games.

I have been thinking more about this option lately and I think it would work very well, lemme know what you think. I personally want a classic Halo game but this might be a good midpoint because I often see people in here referencing BTB as being too slow without sprint.
Not the person you're replying to - but I think that's a potentially great way to bridge the gap between classic and modern fans. Traditional 4 vs. 4 ranked arena can feature one-gun gameplay, with reduced mechanics and abilities to offer an experience that closely resembles what was present in Halo CE and 2. Then Warzone - or whatever it's successor is called - can go nuts with gun variations, abilities, equipment, etc. The possibilities for this are... infinite!
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making posts that do not contribute to the topic at hand.
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I mean... you're here aren't you? So clearly you're interested in being drawn back into it.
Dude calm down, nobody is asking you to beg, we just find it odd that you lost interest. If you really hate notifications so much then you should delete your comments, insulting the discussion by calling it useless and thereby also insulting everybody who still cares is not helping either, you're practically asking to be responded to with condescending statements like that.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making posts that do not contribute to the topic at hand.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
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I wonder if 343 is taking notice to this being the most popular discussion topic on the Halo Infinite forums?

I want classic Halo back. I’d even settle for NO sprint & keep thrusters & dare I say it...clamber. Just to please fans over “advanced movement”.

clearly this topic is important. I don’t care if you’re an older or newer Halo fan. The overwhelming consensus here is that we want classic Halo back. This doesn’t mean we want the game to devolve, we just want Halo to be Halo. That’s all & I hope 343 is listening
Axiios wrote:
I wonder if 343 is taking notice to this being the most popular discussion topic on the Halo Infinite forums?

I want classic Halo back. I’d even settle for NO sprint & keep thrusters & dare I say it...clamber. Just to please fans over “advanced movement”.

clearly this topic is important. I don’t care if you’re an older or newer Halo fan. The overwhelming consensus here is that we want classic Halo back. This doesn’t mean we want the game to devolve, we just want Halo to be Halo. That’s all & I hope 343 is listening
How do 343 determine the importance/value of a popular thread on an (albeit official) forum?

How do they differentiate between "overwhelming consensus" and "vocal minority"?

What metrics do you think will have influenced their (already made) decision...

I suggested "feet on ground" a couple of times. Player populations in older games / Mythic playlists / custom games with advanced movement turned off... but that has been waved away.

How about discussions with pro-gamers (and the broadcasters) or streamers. I would imagine the classic form would be easier to capture and stream in these mediums?

Do we know of anyone who has been invited into play testing? And if so... do we know what their leanings are...

But anyway, I guess we'll know in 6 weeks. Good luck everyone... how ever you self identify in regards to play mechanics.
Axiios wrote:
I wonder if 343 is taking notice to this being the most popular discussion topic on the Halo Infinite forums?

I want classic Halo back. I’d even settle for NO sprint & keep thrusters & dare I say it...clamber. Just to please fans over “advanced movement”.

clearly this topic is important. I don’t care if you’re an older or newer Halo fan. The overwhelming consensus here is that we want classic Halo back. This doesn’t mean we want the game to devolve, we just want Halo to be Halo. That’s all & I hope 343 is listening
343 has probably already decided the movement. Not saying they can't change it, but it's still pretty late to change a core mechanic. When you build a game, the first thing you discuss/program is your player movement. When a game has really bad movement, it was most likely thrown in later during development. It's best that 343 doesn't change up their movement right now, unless they absolutely know that the change is going to please fans and work well.
Darwi wrote:
How do 343 determine the importance/value of a popular thread on an (albeit official) forum?

How do they differentiate between "overwhelming consensus" and "vocal minority"?

What metrics do you think will have influenced their (already made) decision...

I suggested "feet on ground" a couple of times. Player populations in older games / Mythic playlists / custom games with advanced movement turned off... but that has been waved away.

How about discussions with pro-gamers (and the broadcasters) or streamers. I would imagine the classic form would be easier to capture and stream in these mediums?

Do we know of anyone who has been invited into play testing? And if so... do we know what their leanings are...

But anyway, I guess we'll know in 6 weeks. Good luck everyone... how ever you self identify in regards to play mechanics.
I don't know, maybe they could just recognize that classic Halo games are historically popular?

There is nothing "risky" about making a classic Halo game. Players can't buy games that don't exist, that is the only metric worth measuring and even that won't necessarily tell the whole story. You can't make an accurate judgement using unsupported games(OG titles), famously broken titles that were left to rot for years(MCC), nor can you reasonably expect fans of classic Halo to stick with Halo 5 on the off chance they might end up getting a token playlist that they could support which leaves them with a tiny fraction of the content they used to have.

I don't know how we could possibly trust whatever "metrics" 343 is using when it resulted in Halo 4 multi and Halo 5 campaign respectively. If they still can't figure it out after almost a decade, then that doesn't bode well for anyone regardless of what type of games you enjoy.
I'm not expecting them to get rid of sprint, they'll probably get rid of spartan charge and ground pound, maybe slider as well but I think they're going to keep thrusters and sprint as default options, I'd be interested in a more classic approach, no sprint but with fast default movement like Doom and with thrusters still in but I'm sure that's not going to happen, either way I'm still excited for Halo Infinite.
Darwi wrote:
Axiios wrote:
How do 343 determine the importance/value of a popular thread on an (albeit official) forum?

How do they differentiate between "overwhelming consensus" and "vocal minority"?

What metrics do you think will have influenced their (already made) decision...

I suggested "feet on ground" a couple of times. Player populations in older games / Mythic playlists / custom games with advanced movement turned off... but that has been waved away.

How about discussions with pro-gamers (and the broadcasters) or streamers. I would imagine the classic form would be easier to capture and stream in these mediums?

Do we know of anyone who has been invited into play testing? And if so... do we know what their leanings are...

But anyway, I guess we'll know in 6 weeks. Good luck everyone... how ever you self identify in regards to play mechanics.
If you had judged the popularity of Halo 4s additions based on either halowaypoint consensus or by playlist population, even just prior to H5 gameplay being revealed in early 2015, it would of looked overwhelmingly in support of Halo 4. Now in retrospect the amount of people who argue for infinity settings or customisable loadouts is pitiful, considering i argued against a wall of supporters for nearly 3 years i would of thought that their argument wouldn't suddenly vanish. It did.

If you were to ask pros or streamers the opinion is overwhelmingly in favour of classic Halo, i have not met a streamer who is into Halo (but doesn't actively play it) that supports 4 or 5. Most pros went back to H3, Reach or H2A the moment H5 tournaments stopped receiving a prizepool, that's rather telling isn't it?

Coming from New Zealand it's quite easy to gauge the popularity of 4 and 5 in the oceanic scene, the games pushed away most of the players who put time in and didn't attract many new players who did play it often (say 10,000 MM kills+ worth of playtime). Not just the competitive scene, but online crowds and custom groups fell off completely. Most of these people still play games and talk about wanting to get back into it. The craze the Halo Infinite teaser and trailer and the oft repeated "has it returned" echoing across the internet should also be a tell.

If you just gave a re-envisioned H3 i'm sure it would be more popular than H5, i still feel it would be dead in the water. We mention sprint and its impact on gameplay, there are many small changes 343 made to make the game feel less like Halo. What the classic audience wants is the next natural step, not a remake or re-imagining, not a left turn like 4 or 5, but the next logical step.

It doesn't directly involve what you're saying but people seem to be baffled where the fervent desire for no sprint or classic Halo comes from. I'm sure there are many reasons but the turning point i noticed was actually leading into 4, not before or during Reach. The main criticisms of Reach were lack of maps, armour abilities and bloom, there were other criticisms though these were the big ones.

During Reach there were playlists made to provide a more classic experience prior to 343 taking the helm, once 343 took the helm the first major thing was giving players the option of no bloom no sprint. Leading into Halo 4 the main slogan was H4 was going to "feel like Halo' again, implying Reach veered away from what Halo is. Now unless this was just due to a lack of Master Chief, it seems like that wouldn't justify such a bold claim. The level of criticism AAs received was the big dividing point. I need to try find it but i remember the claim they wanted to make the gameplay feel like Halo again just before they were doing the pro tournament / gameplay reveal. To then double down on the main point of division in 4, then expand on it in 5 has lead to where we are now, there has been no greater point of division within the Halo fanbase.

It felt in Reach that the 'CoD' additions were controversial and that the game would return to form. After the population of Reach dipped in half the time of H3 and lost support from tournament organisers and split the community the classic crowd expected a heal, what we got was a wedge then a cold shoulder. The buzz around Infinite is the possibility that we are welcomed back and that their diehard desire to force sprint is gone.

You cannot gauge consensus, you can only fathom that the H4 and 5 population dropped off hard in the first 6 months, outside top 10 played, which is shameful considering it's the flagship online game, it's like if mario wasn't a big seller for Nintendo. You can also see that prior Halos had a healthier population. Giving classic players a little playlist in 4 or 5 is worthless, you dont pay fullprice for a trash campaign and 1 playlist that jankily offers something similar to what you want. MCC was a broken mess for years and search times were unplayable for longer than it should of. Many devs are grateful if their game is popular for 6 months. 4, MCC or 5 doesn't really become a 'good' experience until then.
yeah, bc people like u, i Will be forced to hop every 2 seconds for whole campaign and half minute walking to finnaly get on warthog in btb maps and probably get sniped while hopping. Nice experience 🙌🙌
yeah, bc people like u, i Will be forced to hop every 2 seconds for whole campaign and half minute walking to finnaly get on warthog in btb maps and probably get sniped while hopping. Nice experience 🙌🙌
So, you assume i343 would make it so that constantly jumping forward would be faster than just moving forward?
Why isn't that the case now? Or do you constantly sprint jump? If so, what's the difference?

Why is the warthog 30 seconds away?
yeah, bc people like u, i Will be forced to hop every 2 seconds for whole campaign and half minute walking to finnaly get on warthog in btb maps and probably get sniped while hopping. Nice experience 🙌🙌
Fortnite is a far slower game despite having sprint, didnt stop millions from playing it did it? I'd argue the same applies for CSGO and Siege, slower games yet a huge appeal. You make it seem like scouting your surroundings and deciding on where to look or move, or what to grab isn't an aspect of the game. If 24/7 action with no dead time is what you want then maybe BTB isnt your thing, even H4 and H5 BTB with sprint has that. As for campaign if the game has a wide open space then it provides a vehicle. If you can give me an example of where it doesn't then i can use that same example as an example of bad design. Lastly 4 and 5 campaigns had more inactive time than classic campaigns, mindlessly sprinting is no better than mindlessly walking.
yeah, bc people like u, i Will be forced to hop every 2 seconds for whole campaign and half minute walking to finnaly get on warthog in btb maps and probably get sniped while hopping. Nice experience 🙌🙌
Fortnite is a far slower game despite having sprint, didnt stop millions from playing it did it? I'd argue the same applies for CSGO and Siege, slower games yet a huge appeal. You make it seem like scouting your surroundings and deciding on where to look or move, or what to grab isn't an aspect of the game. If 24/7 action with no dead time is what you want then maybe BTB isnt your thing, even H4 and H5 BTB with sprint has that. As for campaign if the game has a wide open space then it provides a vehicle. If you can give me an example of where it doesn't then i can use that same example as an example of bad design. Lastly 4 and 5 campaigns had more inactive time than classic campaigns, mindlessly sprinting is no better than mindlessly walking.
To be fair, Two Betrayals in Halo CE had a long way to go after the underground section before you got a Ghost so you could go and get a Banshee. But even then, that's intentional so the player can observe the Flood fight the Covenant.
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