Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

The return of classic movement mechanics?

OP A So So Sniper

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ClRQUE wrote:
In my opinion, this game has a really high chance of bringing back the classic gameplay so many old Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!

EDIT: A few things that have already been thoroughly discussed in favor of the removal of sprint, as said by commenters in this thread.

1. Just because sprint is not present does not mean the game is going to be slow. There are many ways to give the player a feeling of speed without the inclusion of sprint, such as higher field of view, smaller maps, or just an increase in the base movement speed.
In terms of BTB-sized maps, the designers could be encouraged to implement more creative ways to traverse the map on foot, like the previously used teleporters, man-cannons, speed boosts, and vehicles, making each map far more unique than if they were all wide-open plains you simply run across to reach your destination. Sprint is arguably the laziest and least entertaining form of map traversal.

2. You can't just split the game in half, with one 'modern' side that has enhanced mobility and a 'classic' side that does not. the difference between the two are far too large to reuse any assets, there would have to be separate maps, extensively tweaked weapons and enemies, and much more. The massive differences essentially create two games in one, and 343 would not be able to support either side enough to satisfy both.
That being said, you also can't create a game around Spartan Abilities and then provide a little playlist that just doesn't have them. The balancing of the game around the enhanced movement will not flow smoothly if they just removed the abilities, when explosion radii are balanced around players thrusting out of the way, and tracking weapons to more strongly track to counter constant movement.
Sprint is fine it makes it better to get from place to place. I don't see what the problem with it is. Now boosting, and all the melee mechanics can go, but I don't want to only be able walk around the map again.
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What do you mean by the melee mechanics can go? You don't want to be able to punch someone? Melee has been a core component of Halo since Halo CE. I definitely don't want melee to go.

If you don't like the melee component of Halo, I hate saying it, but maybe Halo, at least the MP part, maybe isn't for you then.
Uhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I meant ground pound and spartan charge
ClRQUE wrote:
Sprint is fine it makes it better to get from place to place. I don't see what the problem with it is. Now boosting, and all the melee mechanics can go, but I don't want to only be able walk around the map again.
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This looks like the comment of someone who hasn't read more than a few pages of the thread.

I would argue that most of that list is a limitation of the weapon/vehicle sandbox, not a limitation of the player.
I still hold onto the understanding of clamber in a similar manner as I do driving a mongoose.
Clamber is a base trait, mongoose exists as a part of the sandbox. They are not similar.
I was responding to the OP not the few pages of the thread
There's clearly existing elements in 'classic Halo' that remove the player from this desired 'gun-always-up' state (switching weapons, reloading ammo, entering/exiting a vehicle, driving certain vehicles, entering/exiting a turret, deploying equipment, not to mention throwing grenades, or meleeing - I may be forgetting more) so why are these examples accepted as exceptions to the rule; more so than clamber for instance?
"Gun-always-up" isn't to be taken literally. If you look at where this phrase comes from, you'll find that it refers to the fact that movement abilities shouldn't interfere with combat abilities; that movement and combat should work together seamlessly rather than as two separate modes of play where a player has to interrupt one to do the other. But that's a very long thing to say all the time, so people come up with all kinds of shorthands for it.

When it comes to the things you listed, switching weapons is a necessary mechanic that gives the player the ability to hold two weapons. That is so immensely beneficial to gameplay that the fraction of a second delay makes no difference. But here it's worth noticing that the weapon switch animations in Halo are always very fast, because restricting the player to a long animation would significantly alter the feel and style of gameplay.

Use of melee and throwing items are combat abilities. Therefore they don't even interfere with combat. With that said, I see no immediate reason why the player shouldn't be able to throw things with their left hand while shooting with the other. However, there's an obvious limitation to the speed of melee and why it blocks weapon use, which is to avoid insta-kill animations like BXR in Halo 2.

Reloading is not a necessary gameplay mechanic. Indeed, there are weapons in Halo that don't have a reload mechanism. But it is also a useful mechanic for limiting the usability of some weapons. It is part of the cadence of a weapon, just like the rate of fire. Generally speaking, the length of reload animations isn't even an issue asd long as they're reasonable, since the player can reload anywhere they want, which almost always allows them to time their reloads outside of combat.

Vehicles are an entirely separate mode of play. Nobody has to use them—indeed, you can play Halo multiplayer without ever seeing a vehicle if you want to—but they are accepted as an extension of the sandbox that intentionally provides an experience completely different from on-foot play. Therefore nothing one can say about on-foot play needs to apply to vehicle use. And that doesn't matter because they take nothing away from on-foot play.

Nothing here is an exception to a rule, not only because these mechanics have nothing to do with standard player movement, but because there is no rule. There is just a philosophical principle that explains why some mechanics are disliked more than others. One should never try to apply philosophical principles as rules, let alone literal interpretations of shorthands for those principles.
ClRQUE wrote:
Sprint is fine it makes it better to get from place to place. I don't see what the problem with it is. Now boosting, and all the melee mechanics can go, but I don't want to only be able walk around the map again.
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This looks like the comment of someone who hasn't read more than a few pages of the thread.

I would argue that most of that list is a limitation of the weapon/vehicle sandbox, not a limitation of the player.
I still hold onto the understanding of clamber in a similar manner as I do driving a mongoose.
Clamber is a base trait, mongoose exists as a part of the sandbox. They are not similar.
The statement I made about the mongoose and clamber is not false - they can be different while eliciting the same effect in the game.
ClRQUE wrote:
Sprint is fine it makes it better to get from place to place. I don't see what the problem with it is. Now boosting, and all the melee mechanics can go, but I don't want to only be able walk around the map again.
<p></p>
This looks like the comment of someone who hasn't read more than a few pages of the thread.

I would argue that most of that list is a limitation of the weapon/vehicle sandbox, not a limitation of the player.
I still hold onto the understanding of clamber in a similar manner as I do driving a mongoose.
Clamber is a base trait, mongoose exists as a part of the sandbox. They are not similar.
The statement I made about the mongoose and clamber is not false - they can be different while eliciting the same effect in the game.
I see where you're coming from. Getting something useful in return, for putting your weapon down. Mongoose: Put your gun down for a long time, but gain a lot of movement speed. Clamber: Put your gun down for a second, gain the ability to travel a vertical distance higher than a standard Jump. I'm more a fan of a Double Jump now, but the basic idea of what you're saying, is true.
No thrusters ground pound spartan charge and stabilizers they make the game unbalanced and take the skill out of the game
ClRQUE wrote:
Sprint is fine it makes it better to get from place to place. I don't see what the problem with it is. Now boosting, and all the melee mechanics can go, but I don't want to only be able walk around the map again.
<p></p>
This looks like the comment of someone who hasn't read more than a few pages of the thread.

I would argue that most of that list is a limitation of the weapon/vehicle sandbox, not a limitation of the player.
I still hold onto the understanding of clamber in a similar manner as I do driving a mongoose.
Clamber is a base trait, mongoose exists as a part of the sandbox. They are not similar.
The statement I made about the mongoose and clamber is not false - they can be different while eliciting the same effect in the game.
Spartan Charge is like the sword.
Ground Pound is like the Gravity Hammer
Meleeing is like the shotgun

Even if I were to agree with your "clamber is mongoose" statement, that effect is just one out of many both parts have on the game, and it also leaves out something else, how it is achieved and what that means to the game.

Armor Lock is like Overshield, when you pick up the overshield you're invulnerable for as long as it charges, though I don't recall if that was the case in Halo 5.
Honestly, I felt like Halo 5's movement was alright.

Sprinting was not really that useful other than to relocate as you couldn't regen health and the weapon ready speed was not that fast. I would always stop sprinting before going into a corner.
If you really want to make the game slower, then I guess the out of sprint weapon ready speed could be slowed down even more to the point where you will simply never win a gunfight if you bumped into an enemy. Making it very high risk, high reward.

Thrusters, are nice. It reduces the grenade spam that you will usually encounter in previous Halo games (which is really annoying and not considered 'skill').

Shoulder charge, remove it. This should nerf the sprint aspect even more.

Forgot the name of it as I never use it, but the thing where you ground pound. Not really bothered if this goes. It seems useless.

Hovering. It's good but then it's also not. Maybe half the hover time? Giving you enough time to mantle on to things but not really enough to get kills.
Dynamiquel wrote:
Honestly, I felt like Halo 5's movement was alright.

Sprinting was not really that useful other than to relocate as you couldn't regen health and the weapon ready speed was not that fast. I would always stop sprinting before going into a corner.
If you really want to make the game slower, then I guess the out of sprint weapon ready speed could be slowed down even more to the point where you will simply never win a gunfight if you bumped into an enemy. Making it very high risk, high reward.

Thrusters, are nice. It reduces the grenade spam that you will usually encounter in previous Halo games (which is really annoying and not considered 'skill').

Shoulder charge, remove it. This should nerf the sprint aspect even more.

Forgot the name of it as I never use it, but the thing where you ground pound. Not really bothered if this goes. It seems useless.

Hovering. It's good but then it's also not. Maybe half the hover time? Giving you enough time to mantle on to things but not really enough to get kills.
It's not about making the game slower, it's about moving at the intended speed at all times and being able to transfer that speed from being only forward to being for all angles of movement.

I don't like Thrusters because I've had the opposite experience you've had. Can't tell you how many BTB games I've played where if both teams are basically in a chokepoint, it becomes grenade avenue. Every grenade in both team's arsenal are thrown, trying to get a lucky hit in. This is made worse by teammates respawning so close with grenades and the entire process just repeating itself. It creates incredibly boring matches where both teams are at a very strong standstill because neither wants to move forward.

I don't like Hover either, because I find it entirely worthless. You make yourself a target by just sitting there and jumping in place does the exact same thing in cover that Hover does.
Dynamiquel wrote:
If you really want to make the game slower
Go and read the thread. Sprint slows the game down, not the other way around.
After much thought and deliberation, I've decided that I don't really care how Infinite plays. My ideal game would have thrust (could be replaced with an evade animation, if people really don't want thruster packs), clamber, and dual wielding. I think a dodge button would be a good core addition to Halo, and clamber is just a QoL enhancement. Dual wielding just adds to the power fantasy, even if it's not really viable most of the time. But I really don't care at this point; I just want a complete, content filled Halo game at launch.
Ascalon71 wrote:
After much thought and deliberation, I've decided that I don't really care how Infinite plays. My ideal game would have thrust (could be replaced with an evade animation, if people really don't want thruster packs), clamber, and dual wielding. I think a dodge button would be a good core addition to Halo, and clamber is just a QoL enhancement. Dual wielding just adds to the power fantasy, even if it's not really viable most of the time. But I really don't care at this point; I just want a complete, content filled Halo game at launch.
Sounds like a fun Halo.
Dang this threads still going? I left this thread a year ago and it's still going strong. Well that shows how divided the player base is over this. Probably one of the most debated topics in Halo.
Dang this threads still going? I left this thread a year ago and it's still going strong. Well that shows how divided the player base is over this. Probably one of the most debated topics in Halo.
It's been very divided since Reach, really. It's just that a lot of us are coming back around since:

1. The Master Chief Collection released on PC.

2. Halo: Infinite was announced and reverted from the newer, unpopular artstyle to one that is more in-line with "Classic Halo". This has - perhaps foolishly - given some of us old exiles hope that we'll see a return to the Classic Halo gameplay that was largely abandoned with Reach, and almost shot with Halo 4, and then buried with Halo 5.
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Dang this threads still going? I left this thread a year ago and it's still going strong. Well that shows how divided the player base is over this. Probably one of the most debated topics in Halo.
It's been very divided since Reach, really. It's just that a lot of us are coming back around since:

1. The Master Chief Collection released on PC.

2. Halo: Infinite was announced and reverted from the newer, unpopular artstyle to one that is more in-line with "Classic Halo". This has - perhaps foolishly - given some of us old exiles hope that we'll see a return to the Classic Halo gameplay that was largely abandoned with Reach, and almost shot with Halo 4, and then buried with Halo 5.
Old exiles "Discovered Hope" with the last E3 trailer.

Seriously though, people think Halo 5's Mythic Arena gamemode is what Halo Infinite's gameplay will be like, and I'd say it's a return to classic-in-spirit Halo gameplay.

Very exciting.
D1LLYBEAN wrote:
Dang this threads still going? I left this thread a year ago and it's still going strong. Well that shows how divided the player base is over this. Probably one of the most debated topics in Halo.
It's been very divided since Reach, really. It's just that a lot of us are coming back around since:

1. The Master Chief Collection released on PC.

2. Halo: Infinite was announced and reverted from the newer, unpopular artstyle to one that is more in-line with "Classic Halo". This has - perhaps foolishly - given some of us old exiles hope that we'll see a return to the Classic Halo gameplay that was largely abandoned with Reach, and almost shot with Halo 4, and then buried with Halo 5.
Old exiles "Discovered Hope" with the last E3 trailer.

Seriously though, people think Halo 5's Mythic Arena gamemode is what Halo Infinite's gameplay will be like, and I'd say it's a return to classic-in-spirit Halo gameplay.

Very exciting.
I admit I never played Halo 5, so I know very little about the Mythic Arena gameplay. What does that entail?
I hope they keep the thruster pack (and possibly sprint) and ditch everything else. Thrusters make it easier to strafe and can provide a quick movement boost.
D1LLYBEAN wrote:
Dang this threads still going? I left this thread a year ago and it's still going strong. Well that shows how divided the player base is over this. Probably one of the most debated topics in Halo.
It's been very divided since Reach, really. It's just that a lot of us are coming back around since:

1. The Master Chief Collection released on PC.

2. Halo: Infinite was announced and reverted from the newer, unpopular artstyle to one that is more in-line with "Classic Halo". This has - perhaps foolishly - given some of us old exiles hope that we'll see a return to the Classic Halo gameplay that was largely abandoned with Reach, and almost shot with Halo 4, and then buried with Halo 5.
Old exiles "Discovered Hope" with the last E3 trailer.

Seriously though, people think Halo 5's Mythic Arena gamemode is what Halo Infinite's gameplay will be like, and I'd say it's a return to classic-in-spirit Halo gameplay.

Very exciting.
I admit I never played Halo 5, so I know very little about the Mythic Arena gameplay. What does that entail?
I haven't played much Halo 5 since launch (switched to PC), but I saw a video on it's Mythic Arena gamemode which had me interested. The gamemode was briefly rotated through matchmaking, i heard, but you can still try it out by downloading the gamemode to custom games, i think.

Mythic Arena in Halo 5:Faster base movement speed/acceleration
Higher jump height
No sprint
No clamber
No ground pound
No spartan charge
Weaker thrust with longer cooldown
No change to stabilize or spring jump
H2 BR starting weapon
3 melees to kill
No radar
No power weapon respawn timers
Outlines don't appear on dropped weapons
Maps forged around these game mechanics

I think the more classic movement system (no sprint/clamber/etc., faster movement, higher jump) could incorporate some advanced movement features (nerfed thrusters, spring jump, etc.) to give the player more advanced options without disrupting the sandbox too much. The spring jump could be designed as a fully-adopted mechanic (not a bug/glitch) and the sandbox could be designed with its inclusion in mind. Stabilize can stay or go, I have no preference either way. With that said, I don't like the 3-punch-beatdown idea (keep it 2 with shorter range), and I think radar should be included in most classic gamemodes.

Mythic Arena is missing half of classic Halo's charm by only having tight arenas. I'd like to see them try out Mythic BTB or something if they have time before Halo Infinite's release. Overall though, I think Mythic Arena could be a good starting point for designing Halo Infinite's multiplayer (and I suspect it is).
Let's be real: Halo Inifnite will have Sprint, gameplay will be very similar to Halo 5.
Why? Because 343i doesn't care about what Halo used to be or what it made it to be good, they only want to sell as much games as possible, and that means adding features of other popular games such as Sprint, because that's considered "cool" and "modern", and because Halo now is a Teen ESBR game, which means they wabt to sell more, as demanded by Microsoft.
They don't care about the core fans of Halo, they already showed how much they don't care about our "opinions" so I really don't hope much about the next release. I didn't buy Halo 4 and 5, and veeeeery probably 6 neither.
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