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The return of classic movement mechanics?

OP A So So Sniper

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I like the addition of some advanced movement/ abilities. I'm on the side if Lore. However,
I believe sprint should be an armor ability.
Have player Base speed set to H2/H3 speed, A light jog, but then sprint be a pack that sends a surge of energy tot he suits legs allowing for a large, but short (like 5 seconds), boost of speed. Sprint should also act as spartan charge, if you sprint into an enemy it should kock enemies back and cause damage.

Also I like Jetpack, this is more obvious. I'd prefer Jetpack over grapple hook any day, unless grapplehook ONLY pulled things to chief, non of that spiderman stuff.

Also abilities like invis should be armor abilities like H:R that replace sprint, but abilities like Bubble shield should be pickups like in H3.
I like the addition of some advanced movement/ abilities. I'm on the side if Lore. However,
I believe sprint should be an armor ability.
Have player Base speed set to H2/H3 speed, A light jog, but then sprint be a pack that sends a surge of energy tot he suits legs allowing for a large, but short (like 5 seconds), boost of speed. Sprint should also act as spartan charge, if you sprint into an enemy it should kock enemies back and cause damage.

Also I like Jetpack, this is more obvious. I'd prefer Jetpack over grapple hook any day, unless grapplehook ONLY pulled things to chief, non of that spiderman stuff.

Also abilities like invis should be armor abilities like H:R that replace sprint, but abilities like Bubble shield should be pickups like in H3.
Ew jetpack and spartan charge, those two have zero place in the sandbox and are universally hated.
I like the addition of some advanced movement/ abilities. I'm on the side if Lore. However,
I believe sprint should be an armor ability.
Have player Base speed set to H2/H3 speed, A light jog, but then sprint be a pack that sends a surge of energy tot he suits legs allowing for a large, but short (like 5 seconds), boost of speed. Sprint should also act as spartan charge, if you sprint into an enemy it should kock enemies back and cause damage.

Also I like Jetpack, this is more obvious. I'd prefer Jetpack over grapple hook any day, unless grapplehook ONLY pulled things to chief, non of that spiderman stuff.

Also abilities like invis should be armor abilities like H:R that replace sprint, but abilities like Bubble shield should be pickups like in H3.
Ew jetpack and spartan charge, those two have zero place in the sandbox and are universally hated.
Jetpack is not universally hated. Also spartan charge only sucked because it was linked to default sprint. If sprint was an armor ability pickup and spartan charge was linked to that then it would be far more balanced.
I like the addition of some advanced movement/ abilities. I'm on the side if Lore. However,
I believe sprint should be an armor ability.
Have player Base speed set to H2/H3 speed, A light jog, but then sprint be a pack that sends a surge of energy tot he suits legs allowing for a large, but short (like 5 seconds), boost of speed. Sprint should also act as spartan charge, if you sprint into an enemy it should kock enemies back and cause damage.

Also I like Jetpack, this is more obvious. I'd prefer Jetpack over grapple hook any day, unless grapplehook ONLY pulled things to chief, non of that spiderman stuff.

Also abilities like invis should be armor abilities like H:R that replace sprint, but abilities like Bubble shield should be pickups like in H3.
Ew jetpack and spartan charge, those two have zero place in the sandbox and are universally hated.
Jetpack is not universally hated. Also spartan charge only sucked because it was linked to default sprint. If sprint was an armor ability pickup and spartan charge was linked to that then it would be far more balanced.
Jetpack IS universally hated by anyone who takes the game seriously as it completely breaks map design and ruins most gunfights, spartan charge sucked because it rewarded you for running around like a braindead COD player who has no skill other than mash the melee button while running towards someone to get a free kill.
I like the addition of some advanced movement/ abilities. I'm on the side if Lore. However,
I believe sprint should be an armor ability.
Have player Base speed set to H2/H3 speed, A light jog, but then sprint be a pack that sends a surge of energy tot he suits legs allowing for a large, but short (like 5 seconds), boost of speed. Sprint should also act as spartan charge, if you sprint into an enemy it should kock enemies back and cause damage.

Also I like Jetpack, this is more obvious. I'd prefer Jetpack over grapple hook any day, unless grapplehook ONLY pulled things to chief, non of that spiderman stuff.

Also abilities like invis should be armor abilities like H:R that replace sprint, but abilities like Bubble shield should be pickups like in H3.
Jetpack IS universally hated by anyone who takes the game seriously as it completely breaks map design and ruins most gunfights, spartan charge sucked because it rewarded you for running around like a braindead COD player who has no skill other than mash the melee button while running towards someone to get a free kill.
I'm going to be the devils advocate here and say that in the right setting the jetpack is great, here are the issues.
1. multiple people in the air becomes obnoxious as the lines of sight and pressure make for a strong cheese tactic. It needs to be a limited pick-up.
2. even as a limited map pick-up open air maps with no roof need balance, a map like sanctuary is fine, but say uncaged? even as a pick-up it would be a huge advantage.
Say on a map like countdown it worked great in MLG settings, evade and jetpack when limited and used sparingly brought another dimension to the game.

I am in favour of barebones spawning for this reason, when given options (like CoD) players will figure out the best cheese strat and go for the most abusive gameplay, which is what happened in Reach where any vertical forge map became a nightmare OR H4 with pocket boltshot OR with mobility combos being the basis for skilled gameplay in 5. Spawn barebones and then the new dimensions to gameplay can be fine tuned. Unlike other shooters on the market Halo has longer killtimes so aping the run and gun adrenalised CoD trend tore apart the pacing and balance of Halo, and still does with sprint on-spawn.

Playing with very vertical asymmetric maps, multi-phase gametypes, mobility options with items, objects and weapons & pick-ups with additional effects (eg like CE plasma rifle slow) is how Halo should move forward. Keep the base game and expand on it, more complexity, more creativity without undermining the more methodical, even-tempered, predictive game Halo *mostly* has been.
Jetpack IS universally hated by anyone who takes the game seriously
Is this so that you can establish a true Scotsman situation, where you disregard anyone who doesn't hate Jetpack as "not taking the game seriously", so that you can keep believing your statement?

Jetpack as a base ability is problematic, but as a map pick-up it is interesting. And I have reason to believe that this view is shared among many who disliked Reach. "Armor abilities would've been fine as map pick-ups" is a pretty common sentiment. I believe the only armor ability almost everyone would dismiss completely is Armor Lock.
I always thought that the Jetpack* would work well if it was pretty much just a vertical booster.

Just sent you straight up in the air... and then hover to control your descent.

If you still had thrusters you could have a small horizontal move.

* As a map pick of course :)

You essentially had a limited (or once off) vertical jump to visualise the map, snipe someone, or get to a difficult position.
tsassi wrote:
Jetpack IS universally hated by anyone who takes the game seriously
Is this so that you can establish a true Scotsman situation, where you disregard anyone who doesn't hate Jetpack as "not taking the game seriously", so that you can keep believing your statement?

Jetpack as a base ability is problematic, but as a map pick-up it is interesting. And I have reason to believe that this view is shared among many who disliked Reach. "Armor abilities would've been fine as map pick-ups" is a pretty common sentiment. I believe the only armor ability almost everyone would dismiss completely is Armor Lock.
Ehh not every Reach legend thought jetpack was good as pick up. It still broke maps, and single digit onyx was a nightmare when it was in arena. More people hated al and bloom though hands down. Likewise the only reason bloom was hated was because spamming outbeat pacing so then it became a crouchfest of who could spam better adding a layer of randomness to gunfights. 85 percent was a godsend back in the day.
Tetrafy wrote:
tsassi wrote:
Jetpack IS universally hated by anyone who takes the game seriously
Is this so that you can establish a true Scotsman situation, where you disregard anyone who doesn't hate Jetpack as "not taking the game seriously", so that you can keep believing your statement?

Jetpack as a base ability is problematic, but as a map pick-up it is interesting. And I have reason to believe that this view is shared among many who disliked Reach. "Armor abilities would've been fine as map pick-ups" is a pretty common sentiment. I believe the only armor ability almost everyone would dismiss completely is Armor Lock.
Ehh not every Reach legend thought jetpack was good as pick up. It still broke maps, and single digit onyx was a nightmare when it was in arena. More people hated al and bloom though hands down. Likewise the only reason bloom was hated was because spamming outbeat pacing so then it became a crouchfest of who could spam better adding a layer of randomness to gunfights. 85 percent was a godsend back in the day.
Which is why I didn't say "everybody". All I know that a sizeable portion of the critics of armor abilities thought that making them pick-ups would've sufficed, albeit probably with some omissions. But it's not like I've ran a poll on it.
As a classic fan, I've been open to 343's experimentation with Halo's sandbox and mechanics. In my opinion 343 has tried everything but a return to classic gameplay.
With all that has happened with Halo 5 and the MCC, 343 should give us a classic truly experience, I do believe enough people have asked for it over 343's duration as Halo developers.

We don't play Halo to have ADS, slide, grapple hooks, Battle Royal, or whatever else 343 may or may not copy from their competitors. We are fans of Halo for what Halo brought to the table in terms of gameplay and story. A unique experience, I truly believe that those in control of 343 are not aware of the gem that Halo truly is.
If any other form of business preformed the way 343 has, they would no longer exist, but 343 and Halo still stands. That alone proves that classic gameplay needs to return.
So i know I had made post on this but the moderators said it needed to go here and I for one really would like to hear feedback on this so here it is.
To start,
I am sure this topic has been discussed several dozen times before and I know how dividing it is as well. I have been seeing a lot of people bring the topic back up again however in large numbers and it seems as though no one is trying to compromise or budge in either direction.
So, as a long time Halo fan, having played The old as well as new Halo titles, I have a proposal to solve this conflict and hopefully ease the tension between a lot of older and newer fans. To cover as much ground as I can, here is an introduction of sorts:Halo veterans, as I am sure for those of you who dislike sprint that it is not just nostalgia. A single movement speed does have its many benefits of course. Whether it is the maps that fit the pace of the game or the creative methods of travel like the classic man canons and the teleporters, or the clever placement of vehicles throughout the map.
Or it could be the strategic game-play Halo has always had because it gives every player the same ground to stand on, it made you time out your grenades to get the most value since if you got caught you couldn't effectively or reliable dash away from the explosion. Another perk for a single movement speed is that it really gives every type of player a spot to shine and every type of weapon its own unique value for being used regardless of how you play. For instance you cannot really go around the map in medium to large areas with a shotgun or energy sword, you'd have to bring a BR or a sniper, or an AR, etc. It allows for a more balanced sandbox of weapons when combined with good map making.Now, to greet the newer fans of the series/ Modern fans. I would also group halo reach into this category, It was sort of the introduction into a new style of halo that more closely resembles what he have today as opposed to what we had back in the day. With that out of the way, for those of you reading this who may have joined the series later or prefer what the series has become, I can see why those of you might like it. Some clear benefits of sprint and advanced mobility are of course that it makes for much more diverse game-play with the advanced mobility taking the forefront of it all. However as I am sure we all know Balancing became an issue with advanced mobility and how it should play a role in game-play during Halo 5's lifespan and it did cause a lot of players to leave before they eventually made fixes but to an extent the damage was already done. Now as for sprint itself, Some players like the speed, some like the option out of habit because a lot of modern Halo fans came from Call of Duty and other large FPS titles that had the feature and so not having sprint was jarring as id imagine since it has become a staple feature in those titles.Now, for those who are for sprint in halo infinite i ask you for a favor. If you have a PC with MCC or game-pass and can install MCC, I ask that you play a game of Halo 3 or halo 2 Matchmaking with the FOV at 120 so you get the best experience, And after that I want you to tell me what you thought.
For those who are against sprint in Halo infinite, I will ask you a similar favor. I want those of you who have access to any of the following titles, Halo Reach, Halo 4, Halo 5, and if you do have access to any of those I want you to play a Match from any of those games and tell me what you thought of it.Now after you have done that I wish for you to here out my proposal.My proposal is as follows: Everyone here wants snappy, action packed, content filled game-play. but what I have noticed is that people are not separated on the topic of being fast, People are arguing over the animation for sprint. What I wish to ask is that we ( all halo fans ) can agree to make the base movement speed faster to more closely match that speed of which sprint has. And that we remove the animation for sprint. Those of you who like sprint for the speed will have it, and those of you who dislike sprint will have your single movement speed. I feel like that would be a good blend of modern and classic halo, bringing together all fans so that we all can enjoy the Proper halo we have been waiting for for over a decade. And for those of you still on the bridge about this idea, take a look at Doom eternal and its success, I have not heard one person complain about how it controls and in fact all I have heard is praise for how smooth it is and how nice it feels. If you are still not convinced then I respect your opinion, all I ask is that you give something new a chance. Thank you for reading this, have an amazing day.
tsassi wrote:
Tetrafy wrote:
tsassi wrote:
Jetpack IS universally hated by anyone who takes the game seriously
Is this so that you can establish a true Scotsman situation, where you disregard anyone who doesn't hate Jetpack as "not taking the game seriously", so that you can keep believing your statement?

Jetpack as a base ability is problematic, but as a map pick-up it is interesting. And I have reason to believe that this view is shared among many who disliked Reach. "Armor abilities would've been fine as map pick-ups" is a pretty common sentiment. I believe the only armor ability almost everyone would dismiss completely is Armor Lock.
Ehh not every Reach legend thought jetpack was good as pick up. It still broke maps, and single digit onyx was a nightmare when it was in arena. More people hated al and bloom though hands down. Likewise the only reason bloom was hated was because spamming outbeat pacing so then it became a crouchfest of who could spam better adding a layer of randomness to gunfights. 85 percent was a godsend back in the day.
Which is why I didn't say "everybody". All I know that a sizeable portion of the critics of armor abilities thought that making them pick-ups would've sufficed, albeit probably with some omissions. But it's not like I've ran a poll on it.
At least using the jetpack makes more sense and looks better than a half a ton Spartan using a graplling hook to swing around like Spiderman or literally fly straight forward like Superman.
Naqser wrote:
It should have BOTH!

343, by all means think about it. So the rabid for and against camps can ZIP it unless constructive. Because its getting a bit out of hand.

Campaign:Default: grapple, slide, sprint etc
Skulls either combined or separate for every non " classic " armor equipment, movement ability. Could be unlocked by beating the game on Heroic or something.

Multiplayer:Default: NO grapple, slide, sprint etc in either Casual and Competive playlists. Only as pickup armor enhancments, akin to power weapons and power ups.
Specific playlists for both Competive and Social can have the above on by default

Could use some small changes to make it better. But I still stand on best of both worlds, why do we have to squabble and bicker, toxify and be "proud" to be in either camp when a logical compromise and fine tuning just makes more sense???
At least in my humble opinion.
Great template but for the multiplayer just have options like a separate playlist halo 5 multiplayer has a nice skill gap its balanced well for competitive play being unscoped an loosing your aim when shot at keep it more realistic an immersive you sprint spartan charge evade boost slide etc. Watch some esport matches or streamers take advantage of there armor abilities an then maybe you'll see why they shouldn't take it out the game.
I'm pretty sure even Esports players don't like the Halo 5 mechanics. If I recall correctly, spartan charge and ground pound were removed from tournaments very early on, and even sprint at a later point in favor upping the base movement to sprint speed.

Plus, there have been complaints that Halo 5 is just too complicated to watch and enjoy as casual Esports audiences can't understand what is happening with all the fancy mechanics, compared to the older Halos' slower, simpler, and more comprehensible gameplay. Spartan abilities were not helping Esports at all.
Watch the Halo finals 2018 on YouTube. You can watch execution of all the abilities.
So, just having listened to the Jimquisition regarding Fall Guys, I recommend listening to it, what's the viewership on Halo 5 tournaments been from year to year?

Because it was mentioned on the Jimquisition that simple mechanics are easier to follow as a viewer, meaning outsiders are far more likely to understand what's going on, and be more interested in continuing to watch.
H5 movement mechanics > Halo 4s...
H5 movement mechanics > Halo 4s...
I severely disagree.
The fact that Halo 4's sprint was limited alone makes the movement mechanics of Halo 4 superior, because the multiplayer matches didn't devolve into Roadrunner/Wile-E-Coyote-cartoons.
You could delay a lost battle until your sprint ran out, but you couldn't completely negate it the way you can do in H5G.
Everything else is a different story, loadouts, ordnance, killcams, etc. But the movement itself got significantly worse.
And that's not even factoring in the atrocities that are Spartan charge, clamber, ground pound, etc.
Celestis wrote:
H5 movement mechanics > Halo 4s...
I severely disagree.
The fact that Halo 4's sprint was limited alone makes the movement mechanics of Halo 4 superior, because the multiplayer matches didn't devolve into Roadrunner/Wile-E-Coyote-cartoons.
You could delay a lost battle until your sprint ran out, but you couldn't completely negate it the way you can do in H5G.
Everything else is a different story, loadouts, ordnance, killcams, etc. But the movement itself got significantly worse.
And that's not even factoring in the atrocities that are Spartan charge, clamber, ground pound, etc.
Limited sprint was fun but If I recall when you got shot at in halo 4 you didn't Descope or loose aim !!!
Naqser wrote:
It should have BOTH!

343, by all means think about it. So the rabid for and against camps can ZIP it unless constructive. Because its getting a bit out of hand.

Campaign:Default: grapple, slide, sprint etc
Skulls either combined or separate for every non " classic " armor equipment, movement ability. Could be unlocked by beating the game on Heroic or something.

Multiplayer:Default: NO grapple, slide, sprint etc in either Casual and Competive playlists. Only as pickup armor enhancments, akin to power weapons and power ups.
Specific playlists for both Competive and Social can have the above on by default

Could use some small changes to make it better. But I still stand on best of both worlds, why do we have to squabble and bicker, toxify and be "proud" to be in either camp when a logical compromise and fine tuning just makes more sense???
At least in my humble opinion.
Great template but for the multiplayer just have options like a separate playlist halo 5 multiplayer has a nice skill gap its balanced well for competitive play being unscoped an loosing your aim when shot at keep it more realistic an immersive you sprint spartan charge evade boost slide etc. Watch some esport matches or streamers take advantage of there armor abilities an then maybe you'll see why they shouldn't take it out the game.
I'm pretty sure even Esports players don't like the Halo 5 mechanics. If I recall correctly, spartan charge and ground pound were removed from tournaments very early on, and even sprint at a later point in favor upping the base movement to sprint speed.

Plus, there have been complaints that Halo 5 is just too complicated to watch and enjoy as casual Esports audiences can't understand what is happening with all the fancy mechanics, compared to the older Halos' slower, simpler, and more comprehensible gameplay. Spartan abilities were not helping Esports at all.
Watch the Halo finals 2018 on YouTube. You can watch execution of all the abilities.
So, just having listened to the Jimquisition regarding Fall Guys, I recommend listening to it, what's the viewership on Halo 5 tournaments been from year to year?

Because it was mentioned on the Jimquisition that simple mechanics are easier to follow as a viewer, meaning outsiders are far more likely to understand what's going on, and be more interested in continuing to watch.
H5 movement mechanics > Halo 4s...
But that has nothing to do with my question, at all.
Celestis wrote:
H5 movement mechanics > Halo 4s...
I severely disagree.
The fact that Halo 4's sprint was limited alone makes the movement mechanics of Halo 4 superior, because the multiplayer matches didn't devolve into Roadrunner/Wile-E-Coyote-cartoons.
You could delay a lost battle until your sprint ran out, but you couldn't completely negate it the way you can do in H5G.
Everything else is a different story, loadouts, ordnance, killcams, etc. But the movement itself got significantly worse.
And that's not even factoring in the atrocities that are Spartan charge, clamber, ground pound, etc.
Limited sprint was fun but If I recall when you got shot at in halo 4 you didn't Descope or loose aim !!!
So? This has nothing to do with movement.
Celestis wrote:
Celestis wrote:
H5 movement mechanics > Halo 4s...
I severely disagree.
The fact that Halo 4's sprint was limited alone makes the movement mechanics of Halo 4 superior, because the multiplayer matches didn't devolve into Roadrunner/Wile-E-Coyote-cartoons.
You could delay a lost battle until your sprint ran out, but you couldn't completely negate it the way you can do in H5G.
Everything else is a different story, loadouts, ordnance, killcams, etc. But the movement itself got significantly worse.
And that's not even factoring in the atrocities that are Spartan charge, clamber, ground pound, etc.
Limited sprint was fun but If I recall when you got shot at in halo 4 you didn't Descope or loose aim !!!
So? This has nothing to do with movement.
Yea it does unless you run around unscoped all the time try it out.
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You're saying that a smooth run and gun game would have issues in today's market?
When you bring up Bungie's stuff in today's day and age, are you talking Halo CE, 2 or 3 copies with prettier skins?

I don't think it'd be too difficult "adapting and overcoming the fact that you can't sprint", considering there are games out today which does not feature sprint as a default mechanic. If adapting to a mechanic, or lack thereof is supposedly difficult, how are people jumping between games?
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