Skip to main content

Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

The return of classic movement mechanics?

OP A So So Sniper

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 259
  4. 260
  5. 261
  6. 262
  7. 263
  8. ...
  9. 298
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members. This includes stat-flaming.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Spoiler:
Show
For the love of god, stop falling for that guys -Yoink-. At this point it should be clear that he has no intention in having a decent, open minded conversation. You cannot win, he is like any populist -Yoink- poisining the discurse, trying to derail it, slowly dragging it down to his level. No matter what you write, on matter what the facts are, he will just sit back and tell you that it doesn‘t matter since he believes he is right.
So please don‘t let guy trash this thread even further...
i'm the populist? i feel like i'm in the biggest minority there is that thinks sprint can still play like classic halo if balanced correctly.
shooting people out of sprint would easily balance that. we already cant activate sprint in battle unlike thruster.
thruster allows you to thrust mid air and change direction onto different parts of a map which is not possible with sprint.
there is one way to make thruster work with classic halo maps. Only make thruster work on ground and only when not taking damage. However, if sprint is going to be in the game, the new instant slide will act like that thruster.
"That is the risk. Every mechanic base or not has a level of risk vs reward. sprint rewards you with getting to an objective faster, but it has risks which youve explained. It still needs more risks though in order to play like classic halo. sprint should be used sparingly at the right moments as it should come with big risks like getting shot in the back and being forced into a potentially losing battle when sprint gets disabled. people would use sprint much more cautiously, tactically. there will be a constant question of do you risk it where as when you can sprint in halo 5 you can sprint through damage(when full sprint) and thrust to safety. halo 5 sprint needs way more risk than that."

This is where i can't fathom your position, unlike most of the other people who are pro-sprint people who more just argue the status quo and/or for other games you clearly want Halo, you just seem to die on the sprint hill. I just don't see why further imposed risk, at the sake of fun is required when alternatives that have already existed in older games could be expanded upon and utilised. I feel if the base movement speed and map design works in harmony there is no need for sprint in 4v4 maps at all. in BTB maps vehicles, teleporters, and an abundance of 'armour abilities' spawns suffice, the need for an added locomotion above bms isn't classic Halo, a speed pick-up or a weapon which can offer greater mobility or the ability to disarm for faster movement like CSGO would be a better alternative. As long as the difference between BMS and sprint is high it will necessitate use, it won't be used sparingly even with high punishment.

"if you are in bms or in the first seconds of sprint, any damage will stop you using sprint. its risk, but not enough. The sprint shield delay is a horrible mechanic. i created my own thread about that. its just another poor example of trying to design halo around sprint instead of just balancing sprint itself."

Therein lies the problem though, i would need to read your suggestion but to assume atm that it is to knock once shot regardless of speed then while that may work for those that the player does see any player at any distance can shoot you. This is the issue with overemploying risk, one of the issues is that too much will make a player afraid of action due to high risk then not have fun, like adrift in H4, serious slayer matches would end in the 20s because players were to scared to venture down long corridors with no escape routes. In this case only comp players would have the necessary map understanding, visual awareness, reaction time and weapon understanding to make effective use of that system, the remaining population would be punished beyond their skill level, Halo is a very intuitive game, that's its biggest charm out of its abundance of charms, imposing what is essentially an anti-fun mechanic that requires high skill hurts that. I would argue H5 encountered the same issue for different reasons.

"thruster how it works now doesnt work with classic halo . halo was all about meaningful careful movement. risk vs reward. thruster has too much reward and too little risk worse than 5's sprint. It rewards sweaty teamplay by ruining cqb ttk. i played halo for cqb. h5's Thruster ruined it more than anything else now that cqb is wildly inconsistent and not worth the risk. h5 is mainly just boring medium and long ranged combat with little risk of someone getting a "quick" cqb kill on you like classic halo BECAUSE of thruster. it would be fine as a pick up or balanced like the new halo infinite instant slide. as long as we get shot out of sprint, slide will act like a perfectly balanced thruster."

Your second sentence is why i detest sprint and all power off spawn. Your 4th sentence is part of my reasoning for that no matter its permutation. The 5th sentence i would argue is just due to distance and low cooldown and the weird camera thing it should be 1st person only. I play halo for the level of prediction, pressure, intuitiveness and clean information the game has, and its wacky sandbox style. Sprint has ruined that by making it very monotonous, serious, difficult to read once line of sight is lost and difficult to pressure. I would say it is because of advanced movement, the combination of all has created that issue, that issue was present without thruster in H4 and Reach due to sprint. Yet again pick-up is my solution for sprint. slide is neat but making sprint less powerful and swiss army knife is better, could figure out a way to implement it alone, dunno how though like everything theres a million ways to do it wrong.

"in a previous post you did i think. ever wonder why no one cares about doom or quake multiplayer? it was cool for its time but players now desire something less chaotic with more meaningful combat. classic halo was successful because of long ttk at long range, short ttk at close range. the slow movement made it a perfect balance between both. h5's sprint and thruster ruins short ttk and makes it a boring teamshooter because of lack of quick cqb risk, the rest cut for space."

Nah i would of talked about the beauty of quakes mechanics or that doom had autorun but was worthless so it became a default setting, i stay away from popularity arguments mostly, just mainly to talk about how H4 and H5 fell out of top 10 rapidly fast and that they were not popular or a metric for success. Sprint has made steps to remove the slow movement, even if made quicker a uniform move speed will always feel slower even if its always moving at sprint speed. Halo needs a different approach as 343 have mostly aped the new CoD or whatever else is the flavour of the month shooter. None of the main anti-sprint posters want quake, arena in this sense (it first came up as a retort to redefine H4 and H5) is to place weapons on map, players only start with bare essentials, uniform move speed, the focus of strategy is within the map not the spawn attributes. Halo 1 was not only inspired by counterstrike it was just an influence. Within counterstrike and quake you would find most of CE, though it's more quake than CS. CS is a game that has not needed to change in 21 years so cool for its time doesn't hold much weight. Anti-sprinters are not arguing for more chaos but less, the classic game was not chaotic. Clearly there is a desire to add or build on the game, the anti-sprint opinion is to strip it back to the best of CE, 2, 3 and ZBNS Reach then add some extra traits to allow for more variation in engagements. If it was my way i would just have a fluid and snappy BMS with a variety of cool movement and damage items and weapons, take a page out of mobas and play with area denial, crowd control, angled shots, weapon movement, traps etc add more dimension to combat and movement not turn it into another boring monotonous military (or 'advanced') shooter cod clone trash game.
Can this thread die thank you the old ways of halo are gone the new way will ever be accepted so what will be the ever ending debate 🤔, oh yes let's take a forum and bicker like entitled children.
You're free to simply not be here.

I really don't know what you expect to randomly come into a thread to talk down to people with a different opinion and call them petty, as if you have some sort of moral high ground.

And according to you, you said you weren't going to buy it if the game was "Halo 3.5", so you're really acting no better than the people you're trying to lord over.
Yes I will cause it getting real petty and redundant to constantly be advocating for a fame to play to a minority prepective then evovling it to a majority of what is now the standard for A FPS. This entitlement rhetoric fuel nonsense feedback just becomes to much to bear, I grew with what FPS are throughout the times they was introduced i have seen changes and what was dont compare to what its now. Yes caterer to a demographic by providing modes for both. OK
So to repeat what I said before:

You're free to simply not be here.
People seem to give 343 more credit that they really deserve, they haven't put out a single game that hasn't been either decisive or just bad. And even then their best game ( HW2 ) suffers from horrible balance issues and stale maps combined with zero support from the developers past 2018.
Creative Assembly made Halo Wars 2. 🙄 Gameplay, level-design, music, animation, balancing, units... The art-design was a combined effort between them and Blur Studios and MS pushed for MT centric mode, but the core game is all CA!

343 industries started out small and developed the Waypoint app. They than worked on Halo CEA, but even than the biggest chunk of the work went to Saber Interactive in collaboration with Certain Affinity. Once Bungie left they started working directly on the Reach MP rebalancing and on a map pack. Their first big solo gig was obviously Halo 4! Spartan Assault had many lead figures from 343i involved, most of the software side was an effort of Vanguard Games. I guess the same goes for Spartan Strike, but I'm not sure about that one.

They were also partially involved with MCC. From what I could scrabble together 343i designed and developed the combined UI interface, old and new, as well as helping out on the net-coding matchmaking after it was clear that Certain Affinity wouldn't make it in time for the frankly crazy short release window! Until 10 months before that MCC was supposed to be H2A and nothing more mind you, but MS had other plans. Don't wanna know the crunch that went into that mess and we all saw the result! Game was holding up with spit and duct-tape! 343i than took over for patches, add-ons and PC-releases.

Halo Guardians is all 343i, with a hunch of MS marketing team yoinking up some details for good riddance!

And than there is Fireteam Raven. A Game that is still a development mystery to me, because there ain't much infos around Play Mechanix in general on the web. The other co-developer Raw Thrills is wage on their infos as well. All the theme Park stuff that was put together before and after is certainly a 343i efforts, maybe the best thing they have done so far in my books together with the PC release of MCC! The game itself has a CEA like art-direction, but with a lot of the weird elements stolen from Reach gone or remodeled to fit the original CE vibe better. Doesn't look like anything 343i would do basically! XD But it was during the big nostalgia wave of 2018, so who knows?

- -

Long story short, give Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and Halo Wars 2 ain't it my friend! :)
Nuss902928 wrote:
"If you added sprint to a small map such as Lockout, the players would constantly run into walls because of the reduced turn radius."

this is the laughable level of reasoning 343 has to deal with. I dont even have to say anything. anti sprinters defeat themselves.
Way to generalize every single argument against sprint based off of the weakest argument from a post which made 8 different arguments, that definitely doesn't make you look extremely disingenuous and petty.
celestis shouldnt act like he represents the anti sprinters then. All his points are generally weak and not worth my time replying to anymore.
I never did.
And for such "weak" points, you never seem to be able to disprove them.
Even that "laughable level of reasoning" regarding Lockout still stands as you never actually addressed it.
You couldn't even be bothered to do a strawman or make up random numbers like you usually do.
For the love of god, stop falling for that guys -Yoink-. At this point it should be clear that he has no intention in having a decent, open minded conversation. You cannot win, he is like any populist -Yoink- poisining the discurse, trying to derail it, slowly dragging it down to his level. No matter what you write, on matter what the facts are, he will just sit back and tell you that it doesn‘t matter since he believes he is right.
So please don‘t let guy trash this thread even further...
I'm not trying to have a conversation with him, I already realized this is a futile endeavour after a week or so, let alone now that he chooses no longer to reply to any of my statements. (Although he technically still does, but without the Quote-function, as he hopes I won't see it without the notification, so he can finally have that last word he's so desperately craving for.)
No, I'm correcting him when he's wrong for the sake of other users that come into this thread, read his posts and - God forbid - actually believe them if the lies aren't pointed out.
Think of it as an "annotated edition". Like "Mein Kampf" shouldn't be read without proper annotations.
"If you added sprint to a small map such as Lockout, the players would constantly run into walls because of the reduced turn radius."

this is the laughable level of reasoning 343 has to deal with. I dont even have to say anything. anti sprinters defeat themselves.
This ain't the best comment against sprint, point given. Bit out of context, but still. That said, we are on page 260 here. There are many, literally hundreds of post with actual valid and found reasonings for why sprint impacts negatively on the game. Why not choosing one of those and say something about those?
prove what? 343 will know who's statements line up with their own proven knowledge. At this point, 343 will know who is full of crap and who isnt regardless of proof stated here.
Haha. 343 is clueless. At this point I think most people are hoping for a miracle.

Aren't you the same person who didn't like getting killed because you made bad plays? Honestly you should try to learn more about the game before acting like you understand it at the level most of the people against sprint do.
Until 10 months before that MCC was supposed to be H2A and nothing more mind you, but MS had other plans.
I'm not buying into that.
Prior to MMC's release, Dan Ayoub boasted how Microsoft approached them with the request of a Halo 2 Anniversary Edition and explained how it was 343 themselves who came up with the idea of a game compilation.
Then the game releases completely broken and stays that way for half a decade, and suddenly 343 employees claim that it was actually Microsoft who pressured them into going the extra mile.
Sounds more like a company trying to cover their -Yoinks!- after a botched release...
Am very late, but why on earth does Halo Infinite have sprint? As someone who genuinely thinks Halo 2, 3, and Reach have very average gameplay, the decision to put sprint here looks to be the most lackluster attempt of the mechanic. The best thing that one could do is......combine it with slide? There's no thrusters, no momentum to be seen. It practically looks like pure aesthetic but in a way that does not look good. Clamber is something I'm neutral on, but at this point there is no need for sprint to be here. Not even in campaign, given the grapples that launch you across the map.
The more I play mcc again, I vote no sprint. Pls 343
Mlg had perfect speed. There are a huge majority of people who love classic movements and they need to return. All you addy kids who need everything to be so god damn fast, go play cod forever. The OG trilogy will rise from the ashes.
Celestis wrote:
Until 10 months before that MCC was supposed to be H2A and nothing more mind you, but MS had other plans.
I'm not buying into that.
Prior to MMC's release, Dan Ayoub boasted how Microsoft approached them with the request of a Halo 2 Anniversary Edition and explained how it was 343 themselves who came up with the idea of a game compilation.
Then the game releases completely broken and stays that way for half a decade, and suddenly 343 employees claim that it was actually Microsoft who pressured them into going the extra mile.
Sounds more like a company trying to cover their -Yoinks!- after a botched release...
Oh, that's more than possible of course! I just went with the more or less official info I could gather over the years between Wiki, Forbes, WP community updates and such. I didn't double-checked anything in recent times though, I only went by memory. So there could be more minor mistakes or half-truths behind the scenes, it's still the gist of the situation in any case. That time-frame for such a collection and for completely different hardware architectures on top of that? Holy "yoink"! 😨
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post about forum moderation decisions. If you have a question or concern about a forum moderation decision, please private message the applicable moderator. If you have a concern about another forum post, please use the report button.


*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Spoiler:
Show
GRNT WRK wrote:
"If you added sprint to a small map such as Lockout, the players would constantly run into walls because of the reduced turn radius."

this is the laughable level of reasoning 343 has to deal with. I dont even have to say anything. anti sprinters defeat themselves.
This ain't the best comment against sprint, point given. Bit out of context, but still. That said, we are on page 260 here. There are many, literally hundreds of post with actual valid and found reasonings for why sprint impacts negatively on the game. Why not choosing one of those and say something about those?
prove what? 343 will know who's statements line up with their own proven knowledge. At this point, 343 will know who is full of crap and who isnt regardless of proof stated here.
Haha. 343 is clueless. At this point I think most people are hoping for a miracle.

Aren't you the same person who didn't like getting killed because you made bad plays? Honestly you should try to learn more about the game before acting like you understand it at the level most of the people against sprint do.
you are talking about about my other thread and as per usual, an anti sprinter failed to grasp my other threads point. ive played halo 5
enough and still play it to understand what works and what doesnt. if you really think i'm a bad player and that im not qualified to speak like
you. Then that is stat flaming. But youre an anti sprinter. you should be fine.
GRNT WRK wrote:
"If you added sprint to a small map such as Lockout, the players would constantly run into walls because of the reduced turn radius."

this is the laughable level of reasoning 343 has to deal with. I dont even have to say anything. anti sprinters defeat themselves.
This ain't the best comment against sprint, point given. Bit out of context, but still. That said, we are on page 260 here. There are many, literally hundreds of post with actual valid and found reasonings for why sprint impacts negatively on the game. Why not choosing one of those and say something about those?
prove what? 343 will know who's statements line up with their own proven knowledge. At this point, 343 will know who is full of crap and who isnt regardless of proof stated here.
Haha. 343 is clueless. At this point I think most people are hoping for a miracle.

Aren't you the same person who didn't like getting killed because you made bad plays? Honestly you should try to learn more about the game before acting like you understand it at the level most of the people against sprint do.
you are talking about about my other thread and as per usual, an anti sprinter failed to grasp my other threads point. ive played halo 5
enough and still play it to understand what works and what doesnt. if you really think i'm a bad player and that im not qualified to speak like
you. Then that is stat flaming. But youre an anti sprinter. you should be fine.
Correct me if I’m wrong here, mods, but it seems to me the difference between his stat-flaming and yours is that you were the one who initially brought your ‘stats’ into the conversation. GRNT WRK recalled a statement you made in this thread about your own playstyle and then criticized it based strictly on that description. Comparatively, you journeyed outside the conversation, doing research on your opponent and choosing to listen to their stats instead of their words.

I suppose the idea is that in these threads, all participants are treated as equals until they personally say something to differentiate themselves, which you seemed to have done. Is GRNT WRK at fault for using information you yourself brought up?

Just a guess.
Correct me if I’m wrong here, mods, but it seems to me the difference between his stat-flaming and yours is that you were the one who initially brought your ‘stats’ into the conversation. GRNT WRK recalled a statement you made in this thread about your own playstyle and then criticized it based strictly on that description. Comparatively, you journeyed outside the conversation, doing research on your opponent and choosing to listen to their stats instead of their words.

I suppose the idea is that in these threads, all participants are treated as equals until they personally say something to differentiate themselves, which you seemed to have done. Is GRNT WRK at fault for using information you yourself brought up?

Just a guess.
Not something I'm going to explain in this thread, because I don't want to invite people to a rule breaking discussion. This just isn't something we can discuss on the forums, so we should just move on.

If someone here is genuinely concerned or worried about why I have edited some posts, or why I haven't edited some other posts, they are free to ask me about that in a PM. I'm more than happy to share my thoughts, and offer them concrete advice on what they can do. It's just not up for discussion on the forums.
People seem to give 343 more credit that they really deserve, they haven't put out a single game that hasn't been either decisive or just bad. And even then their best game ( HW2 ) suffers from horrible balance issues and stale maps combined with zero support from the developers past 2018.
Creative Assembly made Halo Wars 2. 🙄 Gameplay, level-design, music, animation, balancing, units... The art-design was a combined effort between them and Blur Studios and MS pushed for MT centric mode, but the core game is all CA!

343 industries started out small and developed the Waypoint app. They than worked on Halo CEA, but even than the biggest chunk of the work went to Saber Interactive in collaboration with Certain Affinity. Once Bungie left they started working directly on the Reach MP rebalancing and on a map pack. Their first big solo gig was obviously Halo 4! Spartan Assault had many lead figures from 343i involved, most of the software side was an effort of Vanguard Games. I guess the same goes for Spartan Strike, but I'm not sure about that one.

They were also partially involved with MCC. From what I could scrabble together 343i designed and developed the combined UI interface, old and new, as well as helping out on the net-coding matchmaking after it was clear that Certain Affinity wouldn't make it in time for the frankly crazy short release window! Until 10 months before that MCC was supposed to be H2A and nothing more mind you, but MS had other plans. Don't wanna know the crunch that went into that mess and we all saw the result! Game was holding up with spit and duct-tape! 343i than took over for patches, add-ons and PC-releases.

Halo Guardians is all 343i, with a hunch of MS marketing team yoinking up some details for good riddance!

And than there is Fireteam Raven. A Game that is still a development mystery to me, because there ain't much infos around Play Mechanix in general on the web. The other co-developer Raw Thrills is wage on their infos as well. All the theme Park stuff that was put together before and after is certainly a 343i efforts, maybe the best thing they have done so far in my books together with the PC release of MCC! The game itself has a CEA like art-direction, but with a lot of the weird elements stolen from Reach gone or remodeled to fit the original CE vibe better. Doesn't look like anything 343i would do basically! XD But it was during the big nostalgia wave of 2018, so who knows?

- -

Long story short, give Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and Halo Wars 2 ain't it my friend! :)
What's your point? I know what 343 has worked on and I was simply stating at how mediocre HW2 is. Cool that it was made by CA, ( even though that places the blame on them for the games issues )
Atamus wrote:
I dont want another Call of Halo. If you all want that go play Call of Duty. I want the sprint to be staggered even if you get you shouldn't slow. I want the shield to always charge regardless if you sprint or not. I dont want thrusters to save you in the last second because you were too careless take them out. Halo 5 was made for those kinds of mechanics, I've left many kills on the tables and some I only got assists because the thruster got the guy out just in time for me not to kill him. The books and classic Halo should really be considered. In the books Chiefs visor eliminated all lens flare regardless if he looks at the sun. Halo 5 was horrible when trying to aim because of it. I also found myself over correcting my shots. I want two settings for aiming. You can have your "improved" aim while I want my aim to have more friction so I'm not over correcting when my reticle goes to far in front of you call it "Classic" and let it be... It's not aim assist but it's not so twitchy that likens me to call Halo 5 "Call of Halo". Lastly, stop putting ghosts and banshees in every damn map. Doing this has caused games to feel like being in a blender and I dont get any chance to breathe. You can hardly destroy them unless your entire team is dedicated to taking it out but no worries.. 1-2 minutes later you'll have to do it again because the weapons used to take them out are highly sought after and you are more likely to be mugged trying to fire them at the ghost or banshee. Too much verticality with enemies spawning behind you. Stop the Call of Duty spawning as well. Its garbage. Again follow what made Halo great. Dont try to be relevant and follow others. We carved this path we are relevant.
" I want the sprint to be staggered even if you get you shouldn't slow"
what did you mean to say here?
Easy, have sprint staggered like in past games to where its not insanely fast but you don't sprint forever. Then while you sprint, it shouldn't take you out of your sprint.
I don’t mind sprint. I’m not a fan of unlimited sprint. It will be a difficult task for 343i of trying to keep Halo Infinite’s movement mechanics modern and different while also keeping classic enough to make it still play like Halo. I don’t mind changes to movement mechanics as long as they aren’t overpowered or mandatory.
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 259
  4. 260
  5. 261
  6. 262
  7. 263
  8. ...
  9. 298