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The return of classic movement mechanics?

OP A So So Sniper

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Spikanor wrote:
what about halo CE and halo 2 when a elite's is coming to you with a energy sword i see then not walking to you i see then more sprinting to you.
same with the brute's in halo 2 and halo 3 when there go beserk i see then not walking to you when there go bezerk to you i see then sprinting to you.
same with the flood in halo 3 i see then not walking to you there are also sprinting to you at some point.
same with the grunts when there go in to suicide mode with 2 plasma grenate's and wane blow you up with it there are also not walking but sprinting.

that are 4 points off gameplay we see in halo CE, halo 2 and halo 3 gameplay.
so then again why in both halo CE,Halo 2 and halo 3 all the AI's use sprint in the gameplay but the supersoldier Spartan cant use it in the gameplay when the enemy's from the spartan can do it and the ally from the spartan also can do it?
Chief certainly isn't "walking" in these games you keep bringing up, and by the gameplay definition of "sprinting" we have in Halo: Reach, 4 and 5, neither are any of the different enemies you brought up "sprinting".

Spikanor wrote:
that there remove the run while shooting has something to do with it maybe that there wane remove most off the things you cant do in the game and use more real elements for there game's now.
Or, it was, as they actually said it: "Gamers expect it" ( sprinting that is )

Celestis wrote:
Mere 400 years ago (when the first firearms appeared) warfare was conducted by having two opposing armies stand completely exposed on an wide open field and take potshots at one another.
Just looking at how much has changed ever since, with the advent of new technologies, I am genuinely dumbfounded how people could seriously think that intergalactic combat in a space age 500 years from now would behave exactly like today.
Isn't it interesting that Spartans are big power armored entities sometimes likened to things like Tanks, or, in the case of Halo 4, fighter jets. The first thing being something which can achieve high speeds, and I'm quite certain, can fire in any direction while moving at top speed. While the later, I'm certain can use their weapons at these high speeds it does achieve.

But, this highly advanced super soldier in a self powered power armor capable of enhancing the users capabilities, costing a fortune to create, it's too unrealistic to have them maintaining top speed in all directions while achieving full accuracy.
Celestis wrote:
1st paragraph: Slide doesn't need to be tied to sprint, it only is because every other game does it and 343 would rather follow the trend of every other shooter to appeal to them.
2nd: Why can't sprint exist outside of the core gameplay? why does the core combat loop require sprint and slide and clamber? isn't Halo supposed to be simple by design?
3rd: So 343 chose the worst option by keeping it in yet making it super slow, appealing neither camp and still causing issues gameplay-wise....great. How can you be shocked by this thread? sprint is so gamechanging to Halo it's a no-brainer as to how decisive it is. If you took COD and made hipfire perfectly accurate with all weapons and removed ADS, you would end up with a mechanic just as decisive as sprint in Halo, don't you think it would be debated until the end of time?
1. Cause you need an initial threshold that allows for slide to be initiated. Otherwise, it can be spammed causing issues
2. It's a good question, but also one that negates the past 10 years of halo. Sprint has been in the game longer than it hasn't. Removing it at this point would only be to appease a section of the community (debatably will be the smallest given the nature of ftp populations). Also, sprint/slide/clamber don't make things complex
3. It's the worst option for you, but for many, it isn't. We also don't have anything that really gauges its speed so you can't claim it's slow. No one can make any claim on the current implementation of sprint until it launches.

I get your point regarding the COD comparison but it's a poor one imo. Mainly cause the COD comparison doesn't actually add anything to the discussion more than "ill talk about that forever." Which if that's your point, cool, just a silly comparison to make.

As for me being shocked this thread is still a thing, the games out in less than a year. We know sprint, clamber and slide is in. The game is designed with those in mind. It makes the debate on their inclusion in infinite (as this is an infinite thread) essentially pointless.
Yes I concur... Hi to those that dont know: slide can be a more effective version of ducking in CQB you ever play PvP. Players been ducking scince H1. I have seen no evidence of clamber but would think. ..
it covers the glitchy crouch jump.
But why does Halo need sliding and clamber, crouch jump isn't glitching and crouching already serves a purpose.
Lol no argument go play the same game then. Funny football players slide an sprint an soldiers might clamber or climb up a surface. MCs a scifi super soldier goes with the lore, why not.
"durrrr lore means I should be able to sprint durr"
I do play the same game and slide does nothing for combat while clamber replaces a better mechanic for no reason other than "durr lore and every other shooter does it durr"
Yall ever go back an play the MCC an felt the crutch not being able to sprint or thrust. After going back to Halo 5 an MCC recently I have realized sprint an thrusters felt like there missing from Previous titles. In H5 I recently favored using ground pound for a span an in PvP sacks are still a rarity risky but fun to attain. It would be splendid if all or most of the H5 armor abilities made it into Infinite as having more freedom moving around has been exciting. In my view halo has excellent gameplay I've generally favored over other FPS titles. Im excited over the new grapple hook, the ability to carry weapons from one mission to the next an the open world setting. sprinting or running faster with guns down would be missed.
Naqser wrote:
Isn't it interesting that Spartans are big power armored entities sometimes likened to things like Tanks, or, in the case of Halo 4, fighter jets. The first thing being something which can achieve high speeds, and I'm quite certain, can fire in any direction while moving at top speed. While the later, I'm certain can use their weapons at these high speeds it does achieve.
I am not familiar enough with fighter jets to comment on this, but tanks definitely can.
The M1 Abrams tank's top speed is 45mph and it is absolutely capable of firing the main cannon at this speed - and not just in forward direction.

Yall ever go back an play the MCC an felt the crutch not being able to sprint or thrust. After going back an playing Halo 5 an MCC recently I have realized sprint an thrusters feel like there missing from Previous titles.
Nope, never.
On the contrary, whenever Halo 4 randomly pops up in MCC matchmaking, I constantly feel annoyed that I abitrarily have to lower my weapon now, just to be able to move at full speed.
H5G is so atrocious with all its fad mechanics they Frankenstein'd into the game, I'm not touching that with a 60 foot pole.
Spikanor wrote:
so what all do we play a supersoldier game from 1000 years in the future then is still the same problem.
No it's not. Super Soldiers in 500 years should be able to do more than regular soldiers are being able to do today.
Remove the sprint mechanic, increase base movement speed. That way Chief is always sprinting while still being able to shoot.
Problem solved.

Spikanor wrote:
let me explane it more on this way then.
Spoiler:
Show
Because it's a cutscene.
Also, this has nothing to do with sprint as a mechanic. You can still have the player run at the same speed without forcing them to lower their weapons.

Spikanor wrote:
same go's from all the missions in halo 3 all the mariens are sprinting there and we are play the supersoldier that is the best there got but there cant sprint will the mariene's can that are so weak then the spartans.
You're looking at this backwards. Marines need to lower their weapons to sprint because they are weaker than Spartans. Spartan-II's, including Chief, can still shoot while sprinting. Not being able to shoot while moving makes the player weaker, not stronger.

Spikanor wrote:
why ask me that and not the developers why there not have add that in the halo game's.
Because it was your claim that Halo has sprint to become more "realistic". You make a claim, you support it by evidence.

Spikanor wrote:
then i going to tell it again.
why in halo 3 most Ai's are can sprint the mariene's can do it and the elite's are also sprinting.
but the Supersoldier cant only in 1 cutcence is he doing it but the player cant.
And I'm going to answer again:
You are wrong that the Supersoldier can't sprint. He doesn't need to put his weapon away to sprint because he is more powerful than regular marines.

Spikanor wrote:
maybe thats why in halo reach there have give the spartan the sprint option and in halo 4 and halo 5 the chief can do it also.
Halo Reach Spartans are Spartan-III's. They are weaker than Chief and the other Spartan-II's, so they need to lower their weapons in order to sprint. The sprint mechanic in Reach is literally a hack by Kat that disables the Mjolnir safety regulations which prevent them from going as fast as Spartan-II's can. Bungie explained this themselves in "Behind the Scenes" videos. (As far as I know it's somewhere in this video here.)
Sprint was added to Chief in Halo 4 and H5G because 343 Industries don't care about lore consistency in their games. That's why the "Forward Unto Dawn" is suddenly a different class of ship in Halo 4. Or why it has weapons loaded in its inventory with logos that didn't exist when the ship left. Same reason why they added Aim Down Sights in H5G.

Spikanor wrote:
no that sprint is not perfect what we have see in halo 4 with unlimit sprint is not good.
that it needs to cost stamina for using sprint is something there need to do in halo infinite then its something prefect there have done with sprint that it will cost stemina to use it.
That won't fix anything. Reach already had limited sprint, Halo 4 already had limited sprint. The mechanic was still hot garbage in both games. As long as sprint disables combat it will still be garbage.

Spikanor wrote:
so then again why in both halo CE,Halo 2 and halo 3 all the AI's use sprint in the gameplay but the supersoldier Spartan cant use it in the gameplay when the enemy's from the spartan can do it and the ally from the spartan also can do it?
Because Gameplay and Cutscenes are two different things.
Noble 6 and Jun can go prone in Reach.
So can Marines in New Mombasa.
Miranda Keyes can hold a Shotgun and a Pistol at the same time, and aim in completely opposite directions.
So why can't the player?
Because cutscenes are completely irrelevant for the game.
Proning wouldn't work in gameplay, so it wasn't included.
Aiming in two opposite directions wouldn't work in gameplay, so it wasn't included.
Sprint doesn't work (active voice, present tense) in gameplay for over ten years by now, so it's long overdue to be thrown out.
Celestis wrote:
Naqser wrote:
Isn't it interesting that Spartans are big power armored entities sometimes likened to things like Tanks, or, in the case of Halo 4, fighter jets. The first thing being something which can achieve high speeds, and I'm quite certain, can fire in any direction while moving at top speed. While the later, I'm certain can use their weapons at these high speeds it does achieve.
I am not familiar enough with fighter jets to comment on this, but tanks definitely can.
The M1 Abrams tank's top speed is 45mph and it is absolutely capable of firing the main cannon at this speed - and not just in forward direction.

Yall ever go back an play the MCC an felt the crutch not being able to sprint or thrust. After going back an playing Halo 5 an MCC recently I have realized sprint an thrusters feel like there missing from Previous titles.
Nope, never.
On the contrary, whenever Halo 4 randomly pops up in MCC matchmaking, I constantly feel annoyed that I abitrarily have to lower my weapon now, just to be able to move at full speed.
H5G is so atrocious with all its fad mechanics they Frankenstein'd into the game, I'm not touching that with a 60 foot pole.
That point about the tank is really good. If a modern tank can do it for the last 20+ years, why can't a supersoldier trained from childhood, with a powered exoskeleton with energy shields, in a sci-fi setting, do it 500+ years from now? Just because some people might expect Sprint in current year video game, does not make it a good inclusion. Doom 2016 and Eternal are doing just fine without it. Why? Because the level and enemy design in them is easily some of the best in any FPS to this date. 343 should pull a Nintendo on this one, and subvert expectations for the better of the series.
Celestis wrote:
No it's not. Super Soldiers in 500 years should be able to do more than regular soldiers are being able to do today.
Remove the sprint mechanic, increase base movement speed. That way Chief is always sprinting while still being able to shoot.
Problem solved.
if thats the only reason you can give only that you hate sprint that you cant shoot will you are running then you need to deal with it if 343i not wane see it happing in the halo series any more.
there are a lot off reasons maybe why there have add sprint in the halo series but sadly we never going to know the truth about it since there not going to tell us.
one off the reasons is maybe that there find it to much over powert the sprint and shooting at the same time and to give it a good belance there have added a sprint mechanic so that you cant shoot and running at the same time any more and need to choose more.

a other reason can also be what you see now more in a lot off shooter game's is that there make it more noob friendly then it was back then.
that there not focus on the pro's and skilled player but make the halo series more noob friendly can also be a reason.
a lot off shooter game's are doing it that there focus is not more on the hardcore players any more but also on the players that only play it for fun and also like to win some match's and wane make it what easyer for then.

sadly we never going to know the truth about it and can only speculate about it what the reason maybe is.

Celestis wrote:
why it has weapons loaded in its inventory with logos that didn't exist when the ship left. Same reason why they added Aim Down Sights in H5G.
so what the weapons have now all Aim Down Sights in halo 5 thats something good that give the weapons more accuracy when shooting then shoot in the wild with it.
a basic assault rifle shoots better on the target then it go's miss.
for some weapons like the shotgun is it not needed since its a close range gun but for the long range gun's and middel range gun's is it something good to have so i have no problem with it its a good thing.
+ it make's what easyer to look on the target easy with some weapons also.
and like i told before: there making the game slowly more and more realistic with some things.

Celestis wrote:
Sprint was added to Chief in Halo 4 and H5G because 343 Industries don't care about lore consistency in their games. That's why the "Forward Unto Dawn" is suddenly a different class of ship in Halo 4.
or there cant do notting with the old art style from halo 3 with the Forward Unto Dawn ship that is broken in 2 piece's to make a full mision from it.
that there need to upgrade the art style at some point since there cant do notting with it and need to chance it to do something with it.

Celestis wrote:
That won't fix anything. Reach already had limited sprint, Halo 4 already had limited sprint. The mechanic was still hot garbage in both games. As long as sprint disables combat it will still be garbage.
for you and other people that hate sprint find it more garbage thats you choose and then.
but for a lot off others its not garbage and is it fun to play.
there are hardcore players that wane see sprint stay in the game.
but there are other hardcore players that not wane see it in the game.
its for both there own choose if there hate it or not.
but what i see more is that when somebody like's sprint and tells on this thread or other sprint thread's have told there like sprint.
then its all wrong there are telling that there also need to accept that sprint in halo game's are wrong but sadly most off then are not listing and not chance it and keep like to see sprint in the halo series.

and what has been told all planty off time's on the sprint thread is that the developers have a hard choose to make about it to keep it or not and there is no other way to find the perfect belance between the disscusion about sprint.
so in the end when the game release 1 side has won it and the other side lose it the discussion about sprint in the halo series.
Spikanor wrote:
and what has been told all planty off time's on the sprint thread is that the developers have a hard choose to make about it to keep it or not and there is no other way to find the perfect belance between the disscusion about sprint.
so in the end when the game release 1 side has won it and the other side lose it the discussion about sprint in the halo series.
Sooo why are you here in particular again? This idea that a discussion is something to be "won" and "lost" is kinda detrimental to the topic at hand.

Of course no one is listening. You're trying to talk down to them first with excuses, and then with your already established notion that those against sprint "lost."
Sooo why are you here in particular again? This idea that a discussion is something to be "won" and "lost" is kinda detrimental to the topic at hand.
first off all i not have to tell you when i am back on this thread so thats the answer about your question.

and second off all.
how manny suggestions and idea's have not been make on this thread to make it not about lose the sprint discusion or win the discusion and find a good belance between the 2 groups.
but all the idea's that have been done to make it not about wining or lose it has all been trow away by the people that hate sprint in the game.
to remember you.
and i will pick 2 off then out for it.
1: the idea to make sprint a armor abilitie again is something a lot off people not wane see.
2: to make a 2 seperate playlist's in matchmaking that one playlist has sprint and the other not hate also a lot off anti sprint people.
both suggestions and others are hate by people that not wane see sprint you know why.
since some people not wane see it in the campaing mode, others not wane see it in matchmaking and others not wane see it in the game at all.
so in the end if making a good belance between the 2 groups is not working then there is only 1 thing you have left.
and thats that 1 side is going to win it and the other side lose it and needs to deal with it what the developers have choose.
then you get a win and lose thing about the sprint discusion what nobody more wane see but sadly its the only thing left.

Of course no one is listening. You're trying to talk down to them first with excuses, and then with your already established notion that those against sprint "lost."
its still not 100% sure yet.
but the only we all know so far is that the campaign will have a sprint mechanic in it again so for the people that wane see sprint remove from the full game and the campaign have lost it more all the discusion about it but to know for sure we have to see the full game if the campaign has the sprint mechanic and what the matchmaking will have when the game has been release.
Sprint in halo 5 feels great to me I have played halo forever and the stabilizers and thruster in 5 created a great skill gap it was balanced and kept fair starts more skill more advantages I think sprint can be great as long as it doesn’t take forever to shoot out of sprint and doesn’t give players an easy out to a gunfight.
i just have to say that playing mcc on pc i play with controller(xbox 360) halo 1 2 3 and with mouse and keywoard halo reach and halo 4.
So I wont have problem with halo infinite.
Spikanor wrote:
Sooo why are you here in particular again? This idea that a discussion is something to be "won" and "lost" is kinda detrimental to the topic at hand.
first off all i not have to tell you when i am back on this thread so thats the answer about your question.
That didn't answer my question. At all.

Spikanor wrote:
and second off all.
how manny suggestions and idea's have not been make on this thread to make it not about lose the sprint discusion or win the discusion and find a good belance between the 2 groups.
but all the idea's that have been done to make it not about wining or lose it has all been trow away by the people that hate sprint in the game.
winning and losing have been thrown away, yet you are here trying to make the discussion about winning or losing.

Again, that kind of notion is detrimental to the topic. Someone brought this up to you before: with your level of contribution to the topic, it's more your unwillingness to understand the argument than your actual ability to.
That didn't answer my question. At all.
since i not have to explane my self why after a long time i have make a replay on this thread again so you not have to know the reason and i am not going to give you one also since its not of your business to know it.

Again, that kind of notion is detrimental to the topic. Someone brought this up to you before: with your level of contribution to the topic, it's more your unwillingness to understand the argument than your actual ability to.
if a lot off people are telling that the developers cant choose both side's in the sprint or any other mechanic's thread discussion to agree what both side's wane see in the halo series.
that you always will end up with people that are not happy with the decision the developers have choose since there cant make all the people happy about things there wane see remove or add in the halo series.
and thats the truth we all most face when the game release what the decision the developers took about sprint and other mechanic's in the halo series and there are always people that are not happy with the decision the developers took but thats something with all the game's you have where you get always people that are not happy with it.

and its not 100% sure yet what halo Infinite will give us in the campaign and matchmaking mode what for mechanics there have added in the game thats something we only see when the game has been release and then we know it.
we can keep the discussion about sprint open but the decision has been make all by the developers what to do with it for halo Infinite about sprint.
Spikanor wrote:
so what the weapons have now all Aim Down Sights in halo 5 thats something good that give the weapons more accuracy when shooting then shoot in the wild with it.
1. Aim Down Sights makes no sense in the Halo Universe, because the weapons themselves have cameras built into them that can calculate where the bullets will go. You simply don't need to use archaic weapon sights to aim.
2. Every weapon having pinpoint accuracy is a bad thing in terms of gameplay balance. It ruins the unique niche that certain guns are supposed to have and makes certain weapons too powerful in ranges they were never supposed to be used. E.g. Assault Rifle Sniping.

Spikanor wrote:
and like i told before: there making the game slowly more and more realistic with some things.
And I have already corrected you before: They're not. None of this is realistic.
Looking at a weapon from a different angle does not change the way bullets fly when you fire.
Having to slow down to shoot goes against what human beings are capable of, much less genetically augmented and cybernatically enhanced supersoldiers from 500 years in the future.
The reason why these mechanics were added is because other games have it and they want to make Halo more appealing to those gamers. Sadly though it doesn't work, and they are losing the original Halo fanbase in the process.

Spikanor wrote:
or there cant do notting with the old art style from halo 3 with the Forward Unto Dawn ship that is broken in 2 piece's to make a full mision from it.
that there need to upgrade the art style at some point since there cant do notting with it and need to chance it to do something with it.
1. Art Style has nothing to do with level design.
2. Nobody was forcing them to have the first level set on the Forward Unto Dawn. It could have been set on a Covenant Ship which managed to capture the Chief and Cortana. They blow it up and the campaign of Halo 4 continues like normal.

Spikanor wrote:
there are hardcore players that wane see sprint stay in the game.
Name one.

Spikanor wrote:
but what i see more is that when somebody like's sprint and tells on this thread or other sprint thread's have told there like sprint.
then its all wrong there are telling that there also need to accept that sprint in halo game's are wrong but sadly most off then are not listing and not chance it and keep like to see sprint in the halo series.
You're not wrong for liking sprint on principle.
Your arguments are wrong. There's a difference.

No, sprint does not make the game more realistic, it makes it less so.
No, sprint does not give the player more options, it only takes them away.
No, sprint does not make the pacing faster, it slows it down.
Etc, etc.
Celestis wrote:
they are losing the original Halo fanbase in the process.
so what you wane see more is that the classic fanbase more come's on the first place and the new fan players have notting to say anymore and suggest with idea's there wane see in the halo game since the classic fanbase is something holy in halo?
that there are losing the original halo fanbase is basic normal and thats something you need to learn to deal with that its basic normal.
its 343i choose what for direction there wane go with halo.
do there wane stay in the classic direction or do there wane go to a new direction with adding a lot off new stuff in it what is not classic like sprint.
and it seems there are moving away from the classic direction with the game so its there call to make not yours or anyone's to tell what for direction 343i needs to take with halo serie's.
you can still disagree with there direction there have choose but you still need to accept it what for direction there have choose with the halo serie's.
and it seems there are moving away from the classic part so its there choose not yours.

Celestis wrote:
Aim Down Sights makes no sense in the Halo Universe.
its wierd that in halo CE T/M Halo reach all the snipper rilfe's version got Aim Down Sights and same go's for the beamrilfe.
so if its makes no sense in the halo universe why has most off the classic weapons in the classic halo titels then Aim Down Sights if it makes no sense in the halo universe?
so please explane that since you care so much about the classic halo and not wane see Aim Down Sights in the halo weapons.
and i forgot to add also the halo 3 rocket launcher has also Aim Down Sights.

Celestis wrote:
The reason why these mechanics were added is because other games have it and they want to make Halo more appealing to those gamers.
so there focus on that type off gamers more and less on the original Halo fanbase if that the direction 343 wane go with the halo series there going to do it since its there game so there can choose what for direction there wane go with the game.
its with all the game's that the owner from the titels can choose the directions there wane go with that game and where it needs to go.

Celestis wrote:
1. Art Style has nothing to do with level design.
2. Nobody was forcing them to have the first level set on the Forward Unto Dawn. It could have been set on a Covenant Ship which managed to capture the Chief and Cortana. They blow it up and the campaign of Halo 4 continues like normal.
do you remember the final cutcene and mission in halo 3 how it ended.
since if you look on youtube or play all the missions play on legendary you get after the credits a cutcence and if you look on youtube you will see how halo 4 is going to start its first mission.
so it was bungie that has set all the derection how the halo 4 story is going to become and it was 343i that has develop it.
so your idea about the covenant ship is not going to work then any more.
and we all know since the halo 5 legendary ending that halo 6 is going to start on a new halo ring.
Celestis wrote:
Spikanor wrote:
so what the weapons have now all Aim Down Sights in halo 5 thats something good that give the weapons more accuracy when shooting then shoot in the wild with it.
1. Aim Down Sights makes no sense in the Halo Universe, because the weapons themselves have cameras built into them that can calculate where the bullets will go. You simply don't need to use archaic weapon sights to aim.
2. Every weapon having pinpoint accuracy is a bad thing in terms of gameplay balance. It ruins the unique niche that certain guns are supposed to have and makes certain weapons too powerful in ranges they were never supposed to be used. E.g. Assault Rifle Sniping.
Celestis wrote:
Spikanor wrote:
there are hardcore players that wane see sprint stay in the game.
Name one.

Spikanor wrote:
but what i see more is that when somebody like's sprint and tells on this thread or other sprint thread's have told there like sprint.
then its all wrong there are telling that there also need to accept that sprint in halo game's are wrong but sadly most off then are not listing and not chance it and keep like to see sprint in the halo series.
You're not wrong for liking sprint on principle.
Your arguments are wrong. There's a difference.

No, sprint does not make the game more realistic, it makes it less so.
No, sprint does not give the player more options, it only takes them away.
No, sprint does not make the pacing faster, it slows it down.
Etc, etc.
So to start off I'll go with hardcore players that wanna see games like 5 since that's the easiest. You said name one so I'll say Frosty. The mvp. He has said multiple times that 5 is the best and his favorite game. Moving on the term AR Sniping is ridiculous. If you wanna try and fight me with your AR from long ranges be my guest. I'll simply 5 you while you hit 1 or 2 shots. The most it can be used for is to hit 1 or 2 bullets to kill one shots at long ranges. Which the magnum is more efficient. And using lore in your respons to ADS since if you wanted lire accuracy sprint would be a non negotiable that it should be in the game. And to your arguments on the last part. You are wrong on the more options part it gives you more, it does make pacing faster idk what you mean, and realism is wierd to argue. But oh yes super soldiers not being able to sprint is soooooooo realistic.
In conclusion, your arguments are weak at best in some parts and flat out nonsensical at other points.
Spikanor wrote:
so what you wane see more is that the classic fanbase more come's on the first place and the new fan players have notting to say anymore
What new players? H5G is the least-selling Halo game since Combat Evolved.

Spikanor wrote:
its 343i choose what for direction there wane go with halo.
So that's your standard response when you run out of arguments?
"343 can do what they want, deal with it"
Well, no -Yoink- Sherlock, of course it's their choice what game they want to make.
But here's a friendly reminder: It's also the customer's choice whether or not they want to pay for the product.

Spikanor wrote:
you can still disagree with there direction there have choose but you still need to accept it
No, I don't. Nobody is forcing me to give them money for doing something I fundamentally disagree with.

Spikanor wrote:
its wierd that in halo CE T/M Halo reach all the snipper rilfe's version got Aim Down Sights
No, they don't.
UNSC Snipers in Bungie's Halo games had a screen on top of the barrel, not a scope. It's easiest visible in Halo 2, where the screen directly shows the live feed of the smart-link camera. But the exact same thing still holds true for the other variants, including the Reach Sniper that you mentioned.

Spikanor wrote:
and i forgot to add also the halo 3 rocket launcher has also Aim Down Sights.
Where?
Spikanor wrote:
so there focus on that type off gamers more and less on the original Halo fanbase if that the direction 343 wane go with the halo series there going to do it since its there game so there can choose what for direction there wane go with the game.
its with all the game's that the owner from the titels can choose the directions there wane go with that game and where it needs to go.
There it is again, the "343 can do what they want" reply...
That still wasn't the point.

Spikanor wrote:
do you remember the final cutcene and mission in halo 3 how it ended.
since if you look on youtube or play all the missions play on legendary you get after the credits a cutcence and if you look on youtube you will see how halo 4 is going to start its first mission.
so it was bungie that has set all the derection how the halo 4 story is going to become and it was 343i that has develop it.
so your idea about the covenant ship is not going to work then any more.
Dude, I have literally already explained to you how it would work.
343 already has changed Bungie's ending of Halo 3 by adding a Covenant fleet that wasn't there before.
They could have easily made one more change and have Chief wake up after the Covenant invaded the FUD and took his cryo pod to their ship.
Nobody was forcing them to have the Dawn even in the game, much less to change its design. They did it because they were lazy and/or didn't care about internal consistency. Same reason with sprint and ADS.

Spikanor wrote:
and we all know since the halo 5 legendary ending that halo 6 is going to start on a new halo ring.
And we all know since Johnson died in the Legendary Ending of Halo CE, that all games that came after are noncanon because they contradict it...

Kozren wrote:
So to start off I'll go with hardcore players that wanna see games like 5 since that's the easiest. You said name one so I'll say Frosty. The mvp. He has said multiple times that 5 is the best and his favorite game.
Fair enough.

Kozren wrote:
Moving on the term AR Sniping is ridiculous. If you wanna try and fight me with your AR from long ranges be my guest. I'll simply 5 you while you hit 1 or 2 shots. The most it can be used for is to hit 1 or 2 bullets to kill one shots at long ranges. Which the magnum is more efficient.
I haven't touched the game in five years, so they might have patched it, but on launch a smart-linked AR would consistently outshoot BRs and DMRs at mid-ranges, especially when using the control scheme that would automatically return to ADS just by holding the trigger. Those guns shoot roughly three bullets per second that can knock the AR out of ADS for a blink of an eye, whereas the AR shoots so fast, it would basically keep them from ever going into zoom, thus negating the entire benefit of increased accuracy for those players.

Kozren wrote:
And using lore in your respons to ADS since if you wanted lire accuracy sprint would be a non negotiable that it should be in the game.
On the contrary. Spartan-II's are canonically able to shoot at nigh-perfect accuracy while sprinting, so arbitrarily forcing the player to lower their weapons to run at speeds that are slower than what they are capable of goes directly against lore.

Kozren wrote:
And to your arguments on the last part. You are wrong on the more options part it gives you more,
No, it doesn't. You can run while not shooting or you can shoot while not running. I was already able to do all of that in classic Halo. The difference is, I was also able to do both at the same time.

Kozren wrote:
it does make pacing faster idk what you mean,
H5G is slower-paced than Halo 3, with matches taking longer to finish even though less kills are being made. Is it all sprint's fault? Probably not. But it certainly doesn't help that the maps have been bloated to compensate for sprint speed and reduced turn radius, while at the same time the game doesn't allow you to move (efficiently) around the environment and fight at the same time.

Kozren wrote:
and realism is wierd to argue. But oh yes super soldiers not being able to sprint is soooooooo realistic.
For the record: I wasn't the one who started with the realism argument - Spikanor was.
That being said, no, genetically augmented and cybernetically enhanced Super-Soldiers from 500 years in the future not being able to run and shoot at the same time - something soldiers today are already able to do - isn't realistic.

Kozren wrote:
In conclusion, your arguments are weak at best in some parts and flat out nonsensical at other points.
In conclusion, you know too little about the games and the franchise as a whole to be able to make that judgement.
Celestis wrote:
Spikanor wrote:
so what you wane see more is that the classic fanbase more come's on the first place and the new fan players have notting to say anymore
What new players? H5G is the least-selling Halo game since Combat Evolved.

Spikanor wrote:
its 343i choose what for direction there wane go with halo.
So that's your standard response when you run out of arguments?
"343 can do what they want, deal with it"
Well, no -Yoink- Sherlock, of course it's their choice what game they want to make.
But here's a friendly reminder: It's also the customer's choice whether or not they want to pay for the product.

Spikanor wrote:
you can still disagree with there direction there have choose but you still need to accept it
No, I don't. Nobody is forcing me to give them money for doing something I fundamentally disagree with.

Spikanor wrote:
its wierd that in halo CE T/M Halo reach all the snipper rilfe's version got Aim Down Sights
No, they don't.
UNSC Snipers in Bungie's Halo games had a screen on top of the barrel, not a scope. It's easiest visible in Halo 2, where the screen directly shows the live feed of the smart-link camera. But the exact same thing still holds true for the other variants, including the Reach Sniper that you mentioned.

Spikanor wrote:
and i forgot to add also the halo 3 rocket launcher has also Aim Down Sights.
Where?
Spikanor wrote:
so there focus on that type off gamers more and less on the original Halo fanbase if that the direction 343 wane go with the halo series there going to do it since its there game so there can choose what for direction there wane go with the game.
its with all the game's that the owner from the titels can choose the directions there wane go with that game and where it needs to go.
There it is again, the "343 can do what they want" reply...
That still wasn't the point.

Spikanor wrote:
do you remember the final cutcene and mission in halo 3 how it ended.
since if you look on youtube or play all the missions play on legendary you get after the credits a cutcence and if you look on youtube you will see how halo 4 is going to start its first mission.
so it was bungie that has set all the derection how the halo 4 story is going to become and it was 343i that has develop it.
so your idea about the covenant ship is not going to work then any more.
Dude, I have literally already explained to you how it would work.
343 already has changed Bungie's ending of Halo 3 by adding a Covenant fleet that wasn't there before.
They could have easily made one more change and have Chief wake up after the Covenant invaded the FUD and took his cryo pod to their ship.
Nobody was forcing them to have the Dawn even in the game, much less to change its design. They did it because they were lazy and/or didn't care about internal consistency. Same reason with sprint and ADS.

Spikanor wrote:
and we all know since the halo 5 legendary ending that halo 6 is going to start on a new halo ring.
And we all know since Johnson died in the Legendary Ending of Halo CE, that all games that came after are noncanon because they contradict it...

Kozren wrote:
So to start off I'll go with hardcore players that wanna see games like 5 since that's the easiest. You said name one so I'll say Frosty. The mvp. He has said multiple times that 5 is the best and his favorite game.
Fair enough.

Kozren wrote:
Moving on the term AR Sniping is ridiculous. If you wanna try and fight me with your AR from long ranges be my guest. I'll simply 5 you while you hit 1 or 2 shots. The most it can be used for is to hit 1 or 2 bullets to kill one shots at long ranges. Which the magnum is more efficient.
I haven't touched the game in five years, so they might have patched it, but on launch a smart-linked AR would consistently outshoot BRs and DMRs at mid-ranges, especially when using the control scheme that would automatically return to ADS just by holding the trigger. Those guns shoot roughly three bullets per second that can knock the AR out of ADS for a blink of an eye, whereas the AR shoots so fast, it would basically keep them from ever going into zoom, thus negating the entire benefit of increased accuracy for those players.

Kozren wrote:
And using lore in your respons to ADS since if you wanted lire accuracy sprint would be a non negotiable that it should be in the game.
On the contrary. Spartan-II's are canonically able to shoot at nigh-perfect accuracy while sprinting, so arbitrarily forcing the player to lower their weapons to run at speeds that are slower than what they are capable of goes directly against lore.

Kozren wrote:
And to your arguments on the last part. You are wrong on the more options part it gives you more,
No, it doesn't. You can run while not shooting or you can shoot while not running. I was already able to do all of that in classic Halo. The difference is, I was also able to do both at the same time.

Kozren wrote:
it does make pacing faster idk what you mean,
H5G is slower-paced than Halo 3, with matches taking longer to finish even though less kills are being made. Is it all sprint's fault? Probably not. But it certainly doesn't help that the maps have been bloated to compensate for sprint speed and reduced turn radius, while at the same time the game doesn't allow you to move (efficiently) around the environment and fight at the same time.

Kozren wrote:
and realism is wierd to argue. But oh yes super soldiers not being able to sprint is soooooooo realistic.
For the record: I wasn't the one who started with the realism argument - Spikanor was.
That being said, no, genetically augmented and cybernetically enhanced Super-Soldiers from 500 years in the future not being able to run and shoot at the same time - something soldiers today are already able to do - isn't realistic.

Kozren wrote:
In conclusion, your arguments are weak at best in some parts and flat out nonsensical at other points.
In conclusion, you know too little about the games and the franchise as a whole to be able to make that judgement.
Ok I don't wanna delete a ton so I'll only be responding to my parts starting with AR Sniping. An AR has never been able to outshoot precision weapons at mid range. If you experienced that then you just got out skilled massively. The AR was tuned but it was never a good weapon at mid range when you had other options. Alot of your arguments rely on sprinting and shooting. The thing is you can shoot right out of sprint in halo 5 pretty much instantly. And if they can run and shoot then why weren't they always running in the past games multiplayers? Arguing cannon is just weird. And more options it gives you a ton of options. It allows for alot of options in halo 5s movement specifically. It makes a ton of jumps possible. Makes slide possible which leads to one of the best movement options in the game, the thrust slide. And moving efficiently? LMAO. Saying you can't move efficiently in halo 5 is ridiculous. There are so many options and jumps that you can do. And finally to your last response, you are throwing stones from a giant glass house. You haven't played 5 in 5 years, and you are trying to criticize its movement. You are obviously uninformed in the topic of 5. On the contrary I play 5 nearly everyday I'm on and have played mcc regularly for months. You know too little on 5 to make any judgements on its movement if we are gonna try this game.
Celestis wrote:
What new players? H5G is the least-selling Halo game since Combat Evolved.
it has notting to do with the game but with the way there are selling it.
since halo 5 was more a digital only game more without a disc and that was the reason why it sells not good since there was a lot off complain about it that there not wane have a digital version but a disc version off it.

Celestis wrote:
No, they don't.
UNSC Snipers in Bungie's Halo games had a screen on top of the barrel, not a scope. It's easiest visible in Halo 2, where the screen directly shows the live feed of the smart-link camera. But the exact same thing still holds true for the other variants, including the Reach Sniper that you mentioned.
but you still zoom in with all the UNSC sniper rilfs and Beam Rilf's.
the only thing i can agree with you is weapons like the assault rifle that got no scope on it cant use the ADS but if you can add a scope on it like on halo 5 then you also most agree that it most have a working ADS also then.

about the rocket launcher is this one.
Celestis wrote:
343 already has changed Bungie's ending of Halo 3 by adding a Covenant fleet that wasn't there before.
sadly you are wrong with that part also.
if you have play halo 4 and find the terminals you unlock video's from the story off the game.
and lucky for you there is a story video about how the covenant fond the Forward Unto Dawn ship.
and lucky for you is here the link: Halo 4 Terminal 1 Dawn.
so yea there are showing it but sadly you need to look it on youtube since there have close the halo 4 app on the site sadly since that was the only way to watch it if you have unlock the terminal in the game.
so it was more back then a easter egg more to see what is happing before mission 1 in halo 4.

Celestis wrote:
And we all know since Johnson died in the Legendary Ending of Halo CE, that all games that came after are noncanon because they contradict it...
on this clip you hear how johnson has make it alive back from halo CE ending.
halo 2 first mission and go to 4:36 there you see that master guns is asking it to johnson it.
Kozren wrote:
The thing is you can shoot right out of sprint in halo 5 pretty much instantly.
Can you chase someone who's sprinting, keep up with them, and at the same time, lay down damage on them?

Kozren wrote:
And if they can run and shoot then why weren't they always running in the past games multiplayers?
Please clarify.
Is it a question about pure speed? Sensation thereof? The animation?
What exactly makes them "not run" in the past games?

Kozren wrote:
Arguing cannon is just weird.
You're free to feel that way, doesn't decrease the value others see in it and they get to continue to do it. If you don't wish to partake in that discussion, then you're probably better of not engaging in it in any way whatsoever.

Kozren wrote:
And more options it gives you a ton of options. It allows for alot of options in halo 5s movement specifically.
Let's examine:

Kozren wrote:
It makes a ton of jumps possible.
That's a design choice.
Any jump possible with sprint now, could easily be designed to be achievable without sprint.
Those jumps do not exist in a vacuum without any sort of references to what's possible for the player to do in the game.

Kozren wrote:
Makes slide possible which leads to one of the best movement options in the game
Sprint being made a pre-requisite for sprinting is a developer design choice.
Sliding could easily have been tied to thrusters instead, or, in a thrusterless and sprintless game, have top speed a pre-requisite of sliding.

Kozren wrote:
And moving efficiently? LMAO. Saying you can't move efficiently in halo 5 is ridiculous.
Remove sprint, and sprint only. Tie slide to top speed, and you have achieve a far more efficient movement than in Halo 5, as sprint locks you into a forward motion only. Without sprint, maps would be designed around the BMS speed, which you'd use to traverse the maps, and also use in engagements.
Or, let's play with this scenario:
Which option do you think is more efficient in map traversal in Halo 5?

Option 1:
BMS: 100%
Sprint: 125%

Option 2:
BMS: 125%
No sprint.

Heck, if you had these two options in the game as loadouts, which would you choose? Which do you think would be the most used option overall?
Then, please do explain why you think that is.
inb4: "But slide and spartan charge".

Kozren wrote:
There are so many options and jumps that you can do.
Let me illustrate:
Halo 5:
Can you move max speed and not shoot? Yes
Can you move non-max speed and shoot? Yes
Can you move max speed and shoot? No

Halo 3:
Can you move max speed and not shoot? Yes
Can you move non-max speed and shoot? Yes
Can you move max speed and shoot? Yes.

Sprint restricts you as a player by having you do either-or with actions you possess.

You can look at any Halo 3 map, point to a gap and argue it'd be doable with sprint.
You can look at any Halo 5 map, point to a gap and say it's doable with sprint.

I can look at any Halo 3 map, point to a gap, and say, that's possible to traverse with BMS speed alone.
I can look at any Halo 5 map, point to a gap, and say, despite your sprint, this isn't possible to make with sprint.

Any gap you can make without abusing glitches, is made possible for you to make with the mechanics present in the game.
If Halo 3 had sprint, any jump you point and say would be possible with sprint, but isn't with BMS, most highly likely wouldn't be possible with sprint either way, because the gap would surely have been made larger for you to not make it at all. Because that's the way the designers intended the map at that point.
If Halo 5 didn't have sprint, then any jump which now require sprint, would most likely be doable without sprint, because the map designers intend for you to make that jump due to their ideas with the map.

Kozren wrote:
And finally to your last response, you are throwing stones from a giant glass house. You haven't played 5 in 5 years, and you are trying to criticize its movement. You are obviously uninformed in the topic of 5. On the contrary I play 5 nearly everyday I'm on and have played mcc regularly for months. You know too little on 5 to make any judgements on its movement if we are gonna try this game.
From the looks of it, you've omitted to take into account map design when it comes to game mechanics, as with all the "all the possible jumps".
Incredibly vague when it comes to describing past Halo games movement "speeds"?
You're also the person coming in, ranting to the answering person, not the one who took it up first, "canon / lore", and deciding for everyone else what to discuss, no?

So, is it faster paced? Or did that just drop? Considering all the experience you've gathered playing halo everyday, I was expecting something.

Spikanor wrote:
but you still zoom in with all the UNSC sniper rilfs and Beam Rilf's.
the only thing i can agree with you is weapons like the assault rifle that got no scope on it cant use the ADS but if you can add a scope on it like on halo 5 then you also most agree that it most have a working ADS also then.
about the rocket launcher is this one.
Scoping is not ADS.
You're showing Scoping, which is the camera feed of the weapon.
In Halo 5 your spartan smacks the gun to their helmet.
In Halo 1-4, the camera's view is projected onto the helmet.

Spikanor wrote:
sadly you are wrong with that part also.
if you have play halo 4 and find the terminals you unlock video's from the story off the game.
and lucky for you there is a story video about how the covenant fond the Forward Unto Dawn ship.
and lucky for you is here the link: Halo 4 Terminal 1 Dawn.
so yea there are showing it but sadly you need to look it on youtube since there have close the halo 4 app on the site sadly since that was the only way to watch it if you have unlock the terminal in the game.
so it was more back then a easter egg more to see what is happing before mission 1 in halo 4.
i343 wrote all that.
i343 decided all of that
i343 changed the design of FuD because they felt like it.
Nothing you show or tell here change that i343 didn't have to make Halo 4's beginning like they made it.

Spikanor wrote:
on this clip you hear how johnson has make it alive back from halo CE ending.
halo 2 first mission and go to 4:36 there you see that master guns is asking it to johnson it.
Legendary ending.
As was said, due to this ending. Every sequel to Halo CE, is non-canon because Johnson could not have survived that. Maybe chief is hallucinating / dreaming in his Longsword fighter outside Alpha Halo's debris field.
Naqser wrote:
Kozren wrote:
The thing is you can shoot right out of sprint in halo 5 pretty much instantly.
Can you chase someone who's sprinting, keep up with them, and at the same time, lay down damage on them?

Kozren wrote:
And if they can run and shoot then why weren't they always running in the past games multiplayers?
Please clarify.
Is it a question about pure speed? Sensation thereof? The animation?
What exactly makes them "not run" in the past games?

Kozren wrote:
Arguing cannon is just weird.
You're free to feel that way, doesn't decrease the value others see in it and they get to continue to do it. If you don't wish to partake in that discussion, then you're probably better of not engaging in it in any way whatsoever.

Kozren wrote:
And more options it gives you a ton of options. It allows for alot of options in halo 5s movement specifically.
Let's examine:

Kozren wrote:
It makes a ton of jumps possible.
That's a design choice.
Any jump possible with sprint now, could easily be designed to be achievable without sprint.
Those jumps do not exist in a vacuum without any sort of references to what's possible for the player to do in the game.

Kozren wrote:
Makes slide possible which leads to one of the best movement options in the game
Sprint being made a pre-requisite for sprinting is a developer design choice.
Sliding could easily have been tied to thrusters instead, or, in a thrusterless and sprintless game, have top speed a pre-requisite of sliding.

Kozren wrote:
And moving efficiently? LMAO. Saying you can't move efficiently in halo 5 is ridiculous.
Remove sprint, and sprint only. Tie slide to top speed, and you have achieve a far more efficient movement than in Halo 5, as sprint locks you into a forward motion only. Without sprint, maps would be designed around the BMS speed, which you'd use to traverse the maps, and also use in engagements.
Or, let's play with this scenario:
Which option do you think is more efficient in map traversal in Halo 5?

Option 1:
BMS: 100%
Sprint: 125%

Option 2:
BMS: 125%
No sprint.

Heck, if you had these two options in the game as loadouts, which would you choose? Which do you think would be the most used option overall?
Then, please do explain why you think that is.
inb4: "But slide and spartan charge".

Kozren wrote:
There are so many options and jumps that you can do.
Let me illustrate:
Halo 5:
Can you move max speed and not shoot? Yes
Can you move non-max speed and shoot? Yes
Can you move max speed and shoot? No

Halo 3:
Can you move max speed and not shoot? Yes
Can you move non-max speed and shoot? Yes
Can you move max speed and shoot? Yes.

Sprint restricts you as a player by having you do either-or with actions you possess.

You can look at any Halo 3 map, point to a gap and argue it'd be doable with sprint.
You can look at any Halo 5 map, point to a gap and say it's doable with sprint.

I can look at any Halo 3 map, point to a gap, and say, that's possible to traverse with BMS speed alone.
I can look at any Halo 5 map, point to a gap, and say, despite your sprint, this isn't possible to make with sprint.

Any gap you can make without abusing glitches, is made possible for you to make with the mechanics present in the game.
If Halo 3 had sprint, any jump you point and say would be possible with sprint, but isn't with BMS, most highly likely wouldn't be possible with sprint either way, because the gap would surely have been made larger for you to not make it at all. Because that's the way the designers intended the map at that point.
If Halo 5 didn't have sprint, then any jump which now require sprint, would most likely be doable without sprint, because the map designers intend for you to make that jump due to their ideas with the map.

Kozren wrote:
And finally to your last response, you are throwing stones from a giant glass house. You haven't played 5 in 5 years, and you are trying to criticize its movement. You are obviously uninformed in the topic of 5. On the contrary I play 5 nearly everyday I'm on and have played mcc regularly for months. You know too little on 5 to make any judgements on its movement if we are gonna try this game.
From the looks of it, you've omitted to take into account map design when it comes to game mechanics, as with all the "all the possible jumps".
Incredibly vague when it comes to describing past Halo games movement "speeds"?
You're also the person coming in, ranting to the answering person, not the one who took it up first, "canon / lore", and deciding for everyone else what to discuss, no?

So, is it faster paced? Or did that just drop? Considering all the experience you've gathered playing halo everyday, I was expecting something.
I'll give you this you at least make some good points unlike the other guy.
Anyways. You can easily chase someone down who's sprinting while dealing damage. Damage impairs a players movement making them slower. If you get an open shot you can easily and quickly kill them.

And making jumps possible is not talking about designed purposeful jumps. Those can obviously be designed differently. I'm speaking about things like the, the jump from p1 to top mid on truth. The ability to thrust slide jump to pipes from plaza on plaza. Etc.

Idk how to respond to slide, I mean, I guess, but you cut out what I said with it which was the thrust slide. And what that helps and allows. Sliding makes no real sense when it is used at the speed you are always going. Because sliding is using the movement you build up on sprint.

The next things are very similar to what you said before.

But to the last, the games are alot faster paced. Most of the time. For example of someone throws a nade in front of a doorway then walks behind the wall you can't do much in halo 3. In halo 5 you have the option to pust past and get the kill instead of waiting.
Here's a video explaining why sprint is a good thing for combat. https://youtu.be/2mwAwYnfGJI
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