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The return of classic movement mechanics?

OP A So So Sniper

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The obvious nerf to sprint and deletion of several mobility mechanics implies 343 is trying to at least partially cater to the classic crowd
its still for a lot of people not the right thing there are doing.
there are classic players that can accept the nerf sprint.
but then you have still left the classic players that wane see it remove from the campaign or multiplayer mode's.
and then you have the classic players that wane see it for good in both multiplayer and campaign mode's.
that means with the nerf from sprint that 2 groups off classic players are not happy with it.

like it has been told all on this thread a lot off time's and on other threads about it.
you always get unhappy players with the dissision 343 has make.

To your point about a separate playlist: this won't work. Everything in the game, from maps to weapons, are balanced with enhanced mobility in mind.
it was not a problem for a lot off people in halo 5 when there have added a classic playlist.
the problem is with it is the same you have in halo 5 that you only get game type's that are 4 vs 4 and only play on small maps.
for players that wane see a BTB classic playlist is not happing since you that type off problems then but its not for the small maps.

so in the end about sprint and other new mechanics is it more that we all need to deal and accept it with the choice 343 has make with it.
and if you not happy with the choice's 343 has make then not buy the game since there not chance it on the big parts any more its now all about the small things.
Darwi wrote:
Generally during combat I am no longer trying transverse the map so the only speed that is important is the one that I use to traverse the area of engagement.

The initial engagement can take many forms. Sprint / slide provide options. I may (or may not) be forced to sprint across the map. But I am not forced to sprint into the actual engagement. That gives me options. How I round that corner into an area where the enemy is waiting is important. I may (or may not) be slowing - but where we disagree is that either speed is sub-optimal. The important bit for me is that I have options.
Options in Halo 3:
- Move at 100% speed while not shooting
- Move at less than 100% speed while shooting
- Move at 100% speed while shooting

Options in H5G:
- Move at 100% speed while not shooting
- Move at less than 100% speed while shooting

Sprint doesn't give you more options. All it does is take them away. That's a fact and completeley independent of whether or not either of those speeds is considered "optimal" or not.
Even if you were to redesign classic Halo so that 75% movement speed were "optimal" for combat (by adding arbitrary restrictions, such as a blurred screen to simulate fast movement or whatever) you could still chose to move at a so-called "sub-optimal speed" any time you wanted to, including during combat. H5G (and any other Halo game with sprint) takes that choice away from you and forces you to move at <100% for combat.

Now, it's okay to actually prefer this version of gameplay. There is nothing inherently wrong with liking something and I will never try to convince someone that they are wrong for enjoying something I don't (or vice versa). However, it is wrong to try and justify your own preference with something that isn't actually there, and I will correct false statements without batting an eye.

Pheinted wrote:
When people say it slows down the game, I just feel that they've perhaps never viewed it from the other perspective. I try to see both sides.
It's not an issue of perspective. It can be objectively measured that the last few games were slower than the original trilogy in various aspects, depending on what criteria you choose to determine "fast".
In terms of kills, H5G matches take longer to finish with less kills being made than Halo 3.
However, it has already been mentioned that kills aren't necessarily a good measure for overall engagement between players, because not every encounter needs to end with a kill; and I fully agree with that statement.
Which is why I have personally measured the time between encounters across multiple games several years ago (some time around 2015). I defined "encounter" as every time I took an action that would directly affect another player, such as melee, shooting, throwing a grenade, etc. or such an action was taken against me. My dataset included 40 matches from each of the Halo titles available to me at that time (Halo CE and Halo 2 via XBC/XLK, Halo 3, Reach and 4 on the 360), played in 4v4 on vanilla maps.
Downtime between two encounters increased from an average 5-10 seconds in the original trilogy to 15-20 seconds in the "modern" games.
EDIT: One small addendum - I did not count respawn timers as part of downtime, so Halo 4's instant respawn (or the other titles' lack thereof) did not affect the results.

Again, it's perfectly fine to actually prefer the slower pace in the new games. But claiming to like the new mechanics because they allegedly make the game "faster" is not only false but a blatant misrepresentation of objectively verifyable facts.

Sprint doesn't remove fluid gameplay at all, it just adds button combos into movement much like H2 had button combos for some combat.
Yes it does, and it does so by definition.
In games without sprint, in order to reach top speed, you move the stick forwards and the game gradually accelerates your character until you have reached the maximum BMS.
In games with sprint, in order to reach top speed, you move the stick forwards and the game gradually accelerates your character until you have reached the maximum BMS, and then you press an additional button that just instantly raises your speed from 60-80% (depending on the game) to 100%.
There is no other way to reach top speed without this sudden jump, and the game actively locks you out of any movement speeds in between (say, 90%). And you will experience that stutter multiple times per minute, because you have to flip-flop between movement-mode and combat-mode repeatedly, as the game arbitrarily strips your of your combat abilities during sprint.
That is objectively not fluid but abrupt, disjointed and flat out janky.

I posted this next opinion in this thread a looooong time ago, and no one seemed to care. I almost guarantee Infinite will have playlists both with and without sprint.
Nobody cares because it's still nothing but a band-aid solution.
The vanilla maps will be once again designed for sprint with respect to size, distance between covers, object placement (like team bases, etc.) so any classic gametype will either play like crap or be once more relegated to nothing but forge maps.
Weapons and vehicles will be tuned for sprint gameplay in terms of damage, spread, magazine size, vehicle speed and health, and unlike maps - which can be at least be forged - none of this can be individually(!) modified in the first place in custom settings.
It's also completely useless for PvE modes such as campaign, firefight or whatever else 343 might implement this time.

Spikanor wrote:
i think and i am sure a lot off people going to disagree with it but i think its time to make a end on this discusion more about sprint and other mechanics and that thread can be closed.
So you're not gonna answer any of the questions that I asked you almost one week ago, instead ingnoring them and demanding the thread being closed?
Why doesn't that surprise me...?
I've whatched the MP reveal in slow-mo. it seems that the movement speed during sprinting and shooting is the same (only one case where i'm unsure, because walking seems slightly slower but the perspective shifts). there are also no recovery frames from sprinting to shooting it seems.

if this is the case the "sprint" button is just a mini thruster pack to go to top bms and sliding is just thrusters on ground.

this is a possibility i hope to be true, as it would keep classic gameplay fully while giving the modern sprint animation when not firing. having the reticule show fully during running wouldbe preferable for me though.
Celestis wrote:
Darwi wrote:
Generally during combat I am no longer trying transverse the map so the only speed that is important is the one that I use to traverse the area of engagement.

The initial engagement can take many forms. Sprint / slide provide options. I may (or may not) be forced to sprint across the map. But I am not forced to sprint into the actual engagement. That gives me options. How I round that corner into an area where the enemy is waiting is important. I may (or may not) be slowing - but where we disagree is that either speed is sub-optimal. The important bit for me is that I have options.
Options in Halo 3:
- Move at 100% speed while not shooting
- Move at less than 100% speed while shooting
- Move at 100% speed while shooting

Options in H5G:
- Move at 100% speed while not shooting
- Move at less than 100% speed while shooting

Sprint doesn't give you more options. All it does is take them away.
Sprint does NOT take away options. This is only true because you still look at sprint being the optimal speed, but under what metric. Top speed is not necessarily the best or optimal speed. Why can't crouch walk be the optimal speed since I don't show up on radar. I can choose that as optimal speed for that purpose alone if this is what I feel is most important.

I say for halo 5, max base movement speed is what I set as the optimal speed. Now the list will change slightly from yours.

Options in H5G:
- Move at 100% speed while shooting
- Move at less than 100% speed while shooting
- Move at 120% speed while not shooting

So here I choose to set base movement speed as optimal because I prefer to have my gun up. However, there are cases where you may want to get somewhere faster and need to risk a sprint. This can be to aid a teammate or to flank while enemies are fighting.

Smaller maps can be used and have been in classic halo. However, this comes with its own map design which is fine.

The perspective can be flipped for whatever flow you prefer but it is not true that it takes options away.
Celestis wrote:
Darwi wrote:
Generally during combat I am no longer trying transverse the map so the only speed that is important is the one that I use to traverse the area of engagement.

The initial engagement can take many forms. Sprint / slide provide options. I may (or may not) be forced to sprint across the map. But I am not forced to sprint into the actual engagement. That gives me options. How I round that corner into an area where the enemy is waiting is important. I may (or may not) be slowing - but where we disagree is that either speed is sub-optimal. The important bit for me is that I have options.
Options in Halo 3:
- Move at 100% speed while not shooting
- Move at less than 100% speed while shooting
- Move at 100% speed while shooting

Options in H5G:
- Move at 100% speed while not shooting
- Move at less than 100% speed while shooting

Sprint doesn't give you more options. All it does is take them away. That's a fact and completeley independent of whether or not either of those speeds is considered "optimal" or not.
Even if you were to redesign classic Halo so that 75% movement speed were "optimal" for combat (by adding arbitrary restrictions, such as a blurred screen to simulate fast movement or whatever) you could still chose to move at a so-called "sub-optimal speed" any time you wanted to, including during combat. H5G (and any other Halo game with sprint) takes that choice away from you and forces you to move at <100% for combat.

Now, it's okay to actually prefer this version of gameplay. There is nothing inherently wrong with liking something and I will never try to convince someone that they are wrong for enjoying something I don't (or vice versa). However, it is wrong to try and justify your own preference with something that isn't actually there, and I will correct false statements without batting an eye.

Pheinted wrote:
When people say it slows down the game, I just feel that they've perhaps never viewed it from the other perspective. I try to see both sides.
It's not an issue of perspective. It can be objectively measured that the last few games were slower than the original trilogy in various aspects, depending on what criteria you choose to determine "fast".
In terms of kills, H5G matches take longer to finish with less kills being made than Halo 3.
However, it has already been mentioned that kills aren't necessarily a good measure for overall engagement between players, because not every encounter needs to end with a kill; and I fully agree with that statement.
Which is why I have personally measured the time between encounters across multiple games several years ago (some time around 2015). I defined "encounter" as every time I took an action that would directly affect another player, such as melee, shooting, throwing a grenade, etc. or such an action was taken against me. My dataset included 40 matches from each of the Halo titles available to me at that time (Halo CE and Halo 2 via XBC/XLK, Halo 3, Reach and 4 on the 360), played in 4v4 on vanilla maps.
Downtime between two encounters increased from an average 5-10 seconds in the original trilogy to 15-20 seconds in the "modern" games.
EDIT: One small addendum - I did not count respawn timers as part of downtime, so Halo 4's instant respawn (or the other titles' lack thereof) did not affect the results.

Again, it's perfectly fine to actually prefer the slower pace in the new games. But claiming to like the new mechanics because they allegedly make the game "faster" is not only false but a blatant misrepresentation of objectively verifyable facts.

Sprint doesn't remove fluid gameplay at all, it just adds button combos into movement much like H2 had button combos for some combat.
Yes it does, and it does so by definition.
In games without sprint, in order to reach top speed, you move the stick forwards and the game gradually accelerates your character until you have reached the maximum BMS.
In games with sprint, in order to reach top speed, you move the stick forwards and the game gradually accelerates your character until you have reached the maximum BMS, and then you press an additional button that just instantly raises your speed from 60-80% (depending on the game) to 100%.
There is no other way to reach top speed without this sudden jump, and the game actively locks you out of any movement speeds in between (say, 90%). And you will experience that stutter multiple times per minute, because you have to flip-flop between movement-mode and combat-mode repeatedly, as the game arbitrarily strips your of your combat abilities during sprint.
That is objectively not fluid but abrupt, disjointed and flat out janky.

I posted this next opinion in this thread a looooong time ago, and no one seemed to care. I almost guarantee Infinite will have playlists both with and without sprint.
Nobody cares because it's still nothing but a band-aid solution.
The vanilla maps will be once again designed for sprint with respect to size, distance between covers, object placement (like team bases, etc.) so any classic gametype will either play like crap or be once more relegated to nothing but forge maps.
Weapons and vehicles will be tuned for sprint gameplay in terms of damage, spread, magazine size, vehicle speed and health, and unlike maps - which can be at least be forged - none of this can be individually(!) modified in the first place in custom settings.
It's also completely useless for PvE modes such as campaign, firefight or whatever else 343 might implement this time.

Spikanor wrote:
i think and i am sure a lot off people going to disagree with it but i think its time to make a end on this discusion more about sprint and other mechanics and that thread can be closed.
So you're not gonna answer any of the questions that I asked you almost one week ago, instead ingnoring them and demanding the thread being closed?
Why doesn't that surprise me...?
I don't mean this at all to sound offensive, but you need to have played 5 at a certain level to realize how fast it is. You barely even touched the game. Theres no way you have any accurate data over it. The criteria of fast in halo 5 is the ability to create momentum shifts through advanced mobility synergistically during combat. I suggest some film review of good players to at least see some of the stuff you've most Likely never seen done before.

Many many many players complained that h5 is too fast, too competitive, too sweaty...even today this exists. It is not in their heads. Do you honestly believe for 1 second that if the game felt slower they'd be saying this.? When they're literally saying "sometimes I just wish I could chill out and play halo at a slower pace." These are the same players that hold a game like halo 3 dear to them. That's their concept of "chill" halo. This isn't to say 1 or the other is better, but it definitely shows their differences.

At any rate, halo infinite is missing the catalyst of the advanced movement that makes 5 feel fast. Thrusters. Could infinite feel slow? Idk maybe? I just want to play a new halo game tbh. I don't want to play halo 3. I don't want to play halo 5. I want to play halo infinite..then I'll make up my mind after I've spent a good amount of time with the game I may have an opinion that bares more weight.

If you decide to reply, please only reply to my portion so I can quote and not exceed the limit. I'm replying through my phone.
Celestis wrote:
Darwi wrote:
I say for halo 5, max base movement speed is what I set as the optimal speed. Now the list will change slightly from yours.

Options in H5G:
- Move at 100% speed while shooting
- Move at less than 100% speed while shooting
- Move at 120% speed while not shooting

So here I choose to set base movement speed as optimal because I prefer to have my gun up. However, there are cases where you may want to get somewhere faster and need to risk a sprint. This can be to aid a teammate or to flank while enemies are fighting.
Sir, you can not just change the definition of words just because it makes your arguments appear more consistent. You seem to be conflating the definition of optimal with that of maximum. Just because you believe the optimal speed to be base move speed, doesn't suddenly mean that base move speed is now the maximum (100%) speed of traversal.

If we're discussing speed, then then the maximum (not necessarily optimal) speed of traversal is that achieved while sprinting. Thus, sprinting speed is 100% speed, and base move speed is something less, meaning the analogy Celestis has made is more accurate.
Sprint does NOT take away options. This is only true because you still look at sprint being the optimal speed, but under what metric. Top speed is not necessarily the best or optimal speed. Why can't crouch walk be the optimal speed since I don't show up on radar. I can choose that as optimal speed for that purpose alone if this is what I feel is most important.

I say for halo 5, max base movement speed is what I set as the optimal speed. Now the list will change slightly from yours.

Options in H5G:
- Move at 100% speed while shooting
- Move at less than 100% speed while shooting
- Move at 120% speed while not shooting

So here I choose to set base movement speed as optimal because I prefer to have my gun up. However, there are cases where you may want to get somewhere faster and need to risk a sprint. This can be to aid a teammate or to flank while enemies are fighting.
As has already been mentioned by PumpkinFern, this rebuttal entirely misses the point.
I will say it again, I don't care about what some people deem to be "optimal" speeds. This word doesn't even exist to me in this discussion.
The fact is that Classic Halo allows you to shoot while moving at all speed whereas "modern" Halo doesn't, thereby taking choice away from the player.
If you wanted to go the extra mile, it also bars all speeds in between Top speed and BMS. So if BMS were, say, 80%, you couldn't go at 85%, 90%, 95%, etc. in a game with sprint, thereby taking away even more choice.
This issue just wouldn't exist if BMS were Top speed.
Pheinted wrote:
Celestis wrote:
Darwi wrote:
I don't mean this at all to sound offensive, but you need to have played 5 at a certain level to realize how fast it is. You barely even touched the game. Theres no way you have any accurate data over it. The criteria of fast in halo 5 is the ability to create momentum shifts through advanced mobility synergistically during combat. I suggest some film review of good players to at least see some of the stuff you've most Likely never seen done before.

Many many many players complained that h5 is too fast, too competitive, too sweaty...even today this exists. It is not in their heads. Do you honestly believe for 1 second that if the game felt slower they'd be saying this.? When they're literally saying "sometimes I just wish I could chill out and play halo at a slower pace." These are the same players that hold a game like halo 3 dear to them. That's their concept of "chill" halo. This isn't to say 1 or the other is better, but it definitely shows their differences.

At any rate, halo infinite is missing the catalyst of the advanced movement that makes 5 feel fast. Thrusters. Could infinite feel slow? Idk maybe? I just want to play a new halo game tbh. I don't want to play halo 3. I don't want to play halo 5. I want to play halo infinite..then I'll make up my mind after I've spent a good amount of time with the game I may have an opinion that bares more weight.

If you decide to reply, please only reply to my portion so I can quote and not exceed the limit. I'm replying through my phone.
As someone who has put in countless hours into the multiplayer and was an onyx level player I can say it’s really not that fast💁.

clamber slows you down, stabilizing slowed you down, sprinting slowed you down soon as you ran into an engagement. It all has to do with combat readiness which is completely tossed away when you used these abilities. What’s actually faster is being able to crouch jump while still shooting, something you can’t do in halo 5 because soon as you clamber your gun is gone till the animation finishes. I won’t get into the competitiveness or sweatiness because all games had that excuse from select people, fact is those are the casual players so when you run into people playing more seriously even in a non ranked mode then of course it’ll be competitive (I did a lot of non ranked playing myself).

when it comes to map traversal itself sprinting elongates the maps, there are lots of videos comparing the older games BMS to sprint and times will be the same, why? Because maps are elongated for sprint but your traversal in all actuality isn’t increasing, you’re just traveling a longer distance which ends up equalizing it out to being the same as older games. So you mentioned there’s a reason people say halo is to fast, I’ll say people can say whatever but it doesn’t make it true in all cases and I will actually be one to say it’s in their head. Halo 5 could be fast because it’s kill times are shorter because team shooting is more prevalent, halo 5 could be faster simply cause it’s not running on 10 year old tech, I’d assume shooters today would run more fluidly today than they did back then based on controls, visuals that give illusions, and added little elements like the thruster that nullified strafing to an extent. But the way of moving IE it’s BMS and sprint? that’s not why it’ll be faster, not if you’re stretching the maps to accommodate them in the first place.
Pheinted wrote:
I don't mean this at all to sound offensive, but you need to have played 5 at a certain level to realize how fast it is. You barely even touched the game. Theres no way you have any accurate data over it. The criteria of fast in halo 5 is the ability to create momentum shifts through advanced mobility synergistically during combat. I suggest some film review of good players to at least see some of the stuff you've most Likely never seen done before.

Many many many players complained that h5 is too fast, too competitive, too sweaty...even today this exists. It is not in their heads. Do you honestly believe for 1 second that if the game felt slower they'd be saying this.? When they're literally saying "sometimes I just wish I could chill out and play halo at a slower pace." These are the same players that hold a game like halo 3 dear to them. That's their concept of "chill" halo. This isn't to say 1 or the other is better, but it definitely shows their differences.
Seems a bit unnecessary to claim that one needs to have at least a specific arbitrary amount of skill at the game to be able to make a judgement on how fast the game is when, as you correctly point out, one can simply review gameplay footage of the game. You give someone a concrete measurable definition of "speed", and they can go out there and measure it for themselves.

Players saying Halo 5 feels too fast are definitely not wrong. A pragmatist would say "okay, these players feel the game is too fast, is there some concrete metric that correlates with their experience?"

I think there are metrics by which Halo 5 may be faster than, say, Halo 3. Average actions per minute seems like one that would be fairly possible (but tedious) to measure from enough gameplay footage. Another metric by which Halo 5 actually probably is faster than Halo 3 is root mean squared acceleration or similar. Now, there's no sensible way to measure it without running the game in some sort of debug mode, but it's fairly easy to believe because of Thruster Pack and Sprint, and I think it's well motivated because people's sense of speed tends to be tied to changes in speed.

But you also have to ask: why do other people insist that Halo 5 is not that fast? People perceive things differently. Someone may be really sensitive to APM or the kind of quick jerks from thrusting around. Another person may be less so, and may be more sensitive to the time spent in vs. out of encounters, or the rate of progress (e.g., the portion of encounters in Slayer that end in death).

Both of you use the word "fast", but mean very different things with it. Maybe that's where the source of your disagreement is.
Pheinted wrote:
Celestis wrote:
Darwi wrote:
I don't mean this at all to sound offensive, but you need to have played 5 at a certain level to realize how fast it is.
Well, not to sound offensive, but I assure you I have played every Halo, including Halo 5, at a level far higher than you ever have, or probably ever will. I can tell you with 100% certainty, sprint as it existed in previous iterations significantly slowed gameplay down. Celestis already provided data and I have linked videos showing other people discussing this point.
Quote:
Many many many players complained that h5 is too fast, too competitive, too sweaty...even today this exists. It is not in their heads. Do you honestly believe for 1 second that if the game felt slower they'd be saying this.? When they're literally saying "sometimes I just wish I could chill out and play halo at a slower pace." These are the same players that hold a game like halo 3 dear to them. That's their concept of "chill" halo. This isn't to say 1 or the other is better, but it definitely shows their differences.
This is an unfortunate truth that exists in this discussion. Not that what they're saying is true, but that so many people say these things. From a gameplay perspective, older halo titles were actually faster, but gave the illusion of being slow (narrow FoV, no enhanced mobility), while the opposite is true for newer halo titles. Fact is, most people don't know what they're talking about most of the time, and even of those who do, many aren't able to articulate what they truly feel. All this is to say, these kinds of vague remarks that you hear random people say don't mean anything. They have no substance; they're just off the cuff, wishy washy statements, that don't discuss anything fundamental, and so quoting them as though they mean something in this conversation is pointless.
Pheinted wrote:
I don't mean this at all to sound offensive, but you need to have played 5 at a certain level to realize how fast it is. You barely even touched the game. Theres no way you have any accurate data over it. The criteria of fast in halo 5 is the ability to create momentum shifts through advanced mobility synergistically during combat. I suggest some film review of good players to at least see some of the stuff you've most Likely never seen done before.
You are correct, I haven't played H5G on a high level or for exceeding amounts of time.
But the MLG/HCS players from which the data that shows H5G being slower in terms of kills was taken, did.
I have also played significant amounts of Reach and Halo 4 (at least 1000 matches in the latter to get the Raider DSTT helmet), both of which have sprint.
If H5G really were faster than Halo 3 - to which no evidence I have ever seen points towards, on the contrary - it can be objectively said that it isn't because of sprint, but rather in spite of it, because Reach and 4 already had that mechanic and both of them were significantly slower than Classic Halo.
So once again, if H5G were faster than all prior games, you could just add whatever it was that made it faster to Classic Halo, if that is the effect you wanted to achieve. No sprint needed.

Pheinted wrote:
Many many many players complained that h5 is too fast, too competitive, too sweaty...even today this exists. It is not in their heads. Do you honestly believe for 1 second that if the game felt slower they'd be saying this.? When they're literally saying "sometimes I just wish I could chill out and play halo at a slower pace." These are the same players that hold a game like halo 3 dear to them. That's their concept of "chill" halo. This isn't to say 1 or the other is better, but it definitely shows their differences.
You're mixing apples and oranges here.
The game might feel faster, but cold, hard data shows it isn't.
That is inherently the problem with this discussion. Some people judging sprint (and other mechanics) based on how they feel whereas others judge it on what they do.
You feel like going faster, because you don't realize that maps have been adjusted to give you that feeling. You feel as if you're doing something in the game, because you're required to push one additional button for something that was previously just accessible via the left analog stick.
I never commented on how the game feels because emotions are inherently tied to one's specific perspective and differ from person to person. I did comment on objectively verifiable facts pulled from data.
Celestis wrote:
So you're not gonna answer any of the questions that I asked you almost one week ago, instead ingnoring them and demanding the thread being closed?
Why doesn't that surprise me...?
for some reason i feel i most explane to you why i not have give you a replay back from the last time.
and i will give you the same anwser i have give to the other guy that has ask it also on this thread.
its not off your business if i replay somebody back or not.

but since you wane know it that sadly i will give you a reason.
i have not replay on your questions since i am more done with this discusion about sprint if its wrong or not.
since there have show the multiplayer trailer on the E3 that sprint is going to stay in the halo series and since we have to wait 10 more years for a new game is it for me no point to keep going with this point less discusion about something that is not going to chance in the halo series but is staying in the halo series.
we can keep this discusion alive between us but its at some point becoming point less to keep going since you keep belive that without sprint its better and classic way from bungie is good for the series.
and i keep with the point that sprint is good for the halo series and what 343 is doing with it is good for the series.

what maybe also have play a role is that bringing up other game's up like COD or fortnite that you hate that 343 is using that for halo is getting old and boring at some point to replay back on points like that what has been use all a lot on this thread.
and same go's for questions like: How do I disable ADS or sprint and stuff like that is also getting old to use since i am going to replay my self only more with the answer from ask that to 343 and not me why there not have add it.
and yes i also use some replay's that are getting old since if you tell that notting can be chance in the halo series and it most always become the same thing then you ask also for it that you get the getting old replays back.

and here is something i told to somebody about it also.
if classic fans keep telling that notting can be chance or it most stay the same as in halo CE,2 or 3 then you are asking for it that there going to use a old replay what has been told all before a lot off time's like: what is the point then for developing a new halo game if notting new is welcome.
and its the same if people tell that sprint make's it more modern then there are asking it for old replay that has been use for it.
then you get old replay's like: why has that game it not then when its doing good. then you have it that somebody else that like's sprint get a old replay.
Spikanor wrote:
i have not replay on your questions since i am more done with this discusion about sprint if its wrong or not.
since there have show the multiplayer trailer on the E3 that sprint is going to stay in the halo series and since we have to wait 10 more years for a new game is it for me no point to keep going with this point less discusion about something that is not going to chance in the halo series but is staying in the halo series.
So why are you still on this thread? Replying to everybody else. If you're done with the discussion, you could just as well leave... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Spikanor wrote:
what maybe also have play a role is that bringing up other game's up like COD or fortnite that you hate
Where did I ever say I hate CoD or Fortnite?

Spikanor wrote:
and same go's for questions like: How do I disable ADS or sprint and stuff like that is also getting old to use since i am going to replay my self only more with the answer from ask that to 343 and not me why there not have add it.
You said you could use the classic zoom in H5G. I asked you how, then you stopped replying.
Don't complain when people hold you accountable for your own statements.

Spikanor wrote:
and yes i also use some replay's that are getting old since if you tell that notting can be chance in the halo series and it most always become the same thing then you ask also for it that you get the getting old replays back.

and here is something i told to somebody about it also.
if classic fans keep telling that notting can be chance or it most stay the same as in halo CE,2 or 3 then you are asking for it that there going to use a old replay
Blatant strawman.
Nobody ever said nothing can be added to Halo.
You just keep telling yourself that because it makes it easier for you to argue against instead of giving some actual thought to what is good change and what is bad change.

Spikanor wrote:
what is the point then for developing a new halo game if notting new is welcome.
Besides the fact that nobody ever said "nothing new is welcome", I have already answered that question:
Celestis wrote:
New guns, new vehicles, new missions, new maps, new story, etc... you can do all that without changing the gameplay.
For the sake of Custom Games, I hope 343 eventually updates Sprint to be a modular ability. I know that Sliding is inherently tied to it and the maps are more than likely designed around Sprint as well, but if we want to see even more crazy game modes, Halo Infinite has to be even more modular than it already is, even if refactoring the player control scripts to replace Sprint with a second modular system might take too much work and time.

With Sprint being replaced by a new modular toolkit, Jetpacks and Thrusters could see a return to form, with both having secondary functions like how Slide is a secondary function of Sprint. Thrusters could reintroduce the controversial Ground Pound, and Jetpacks could reintroduce hovering or introduce a new charged jump. More options, more unique and emergent gameplay opportunities. And it's still Halo at a fundamental level because those abilities are optional. Future map design might take a hit, but Forge was always the backbone of multiplayer Halo since it was introduced, even in the competitive scene.
What’s the point of having sprint if it more or less have no effect?
They even let you sprint while holding the flag because you barely move faster anyway (Seen in video).
Is this not completely pointles?

Ether have sprint that let’s you actually run.
Or don’t have sprint at all and make the BMS as fast as Infinites current sprint.
Celestis wrote:
Sprint does NOT take away options. This is only true because you still look at sprint being the optimal speed, but under what metric. Top speed is not necessarily the best or optimal speed. Why can't crouch walk be the optimal speed since I don't show up on radar. I can choose that as optimal speed for that purpose alone if this is what I feel is most important.

I say for halo 5, max base movement speed is what I set as the optimal speed. Now the list will change slightly from yours.

Options in H5G:
- Move at 100% speed while shooting
- Move at less than 100% speed while shooting
- Move at 120% speed while not shooting

So here I choose to set base movement speed as optimal because I prefer to have my gun up. However, there are cases where you may want to get somewhere faster and need to risk a sprint. This can be to aid a teammate or to flank while enemies are fighting.
As has already been mentioned by PumpkinFern, this rebuttal entirely misses the point.
I will say it again, I don't care about what some people deem to be "optimal" speeds. This word doesn't even exist to me in this discussion.
The fact is that Classic Halo allows you to shoot while moving at all speed whereas "modern" Halo doesn't, thereby taking choice away from the player.
If you wanted to go the extra mile, it also bars all speeds in between Top speed and BMS. So if BMS were, say, 80%, you couldn't go at 85%, 90%, 95%, etc. in a game with sprint, thereby taking away even more choice.
This issue just wouldn't exist if BMS were Top speed.
I'm sorry if I misunderstood something here, but I still don't get how an extra option reduces options? (Not sure what "optimal" speed means either)

Classic Halo has 2 speeds and you can shoot at both, Modern Halo has 3 speeds and you can still shoot at two of them. You have to weight the risks v rewards for sprinting - can I sprint and help my friend out, or is someone watching the lane to pick me off?

If BMS was 100% you either crouch at 50% or walk at 100%. With sprint, your BMS is still 100%, you can still crouch at 50%, but you can now also run at 120%. So those are in fact more options right.

FWIW I play M&K. I know that with controllers you can vary the walk speed but not sprint speed, so maybe I'm entirely misunderstanding this convo?
Celestis wrote:
Where did I ever say I hate CoD or Fortnite?
if you read is what further in the text i told you that you hate that 343 is copy some things from cod and other game's and its not halo for you any more if there copy things from other game's for the halo series.
and that are things that are old news and also getting old to see from classic fans that there use the copy from other game's as reason what is wrong that are things that is old news and gets boring to replay back on.

Celestis wrote:
You said you could use the classic zoom in H5G. I asked you how, then you stopped replying.
Don't complain when people hold you accountable for your own statements.
if you wane have a answer about that question then i give it to you.
unlock the classic Battle Rilf and DMR weapon with the basic scope on it since when i look in my weapon list from halo 5 you can do that unlock the basic weapons with the basic scope or no scope.
battle rilfe with basic scope from halo 5
classic halo 2 battle rilfe if you get lucky. basic DMR with basic scope. so you have it with your basic scope for the battle rilfe and DMR that the options in halo 5 there is to use.
and if you are lucky with the golden REQ pack you get the halo 2 battle rilfe version also.
Spam8358 wrote:
What’s the point of having sprint if it more or less have no effect?
They even let you sprint while holding the flag because you barely move faster anyway (Seen in video).
Is this not completely pointles?

Ether have sprint that let’s you actually run.
Or don’t have sprint at all and make the BMS as fast as Infinites current sprint.
it seems to be a cosmetic sprint at max bms. the "sprint" button seems to be mini thrusters. sliding is just what thrusters seemed to have turned into. in the campaign demo from last year a thruster use in mid air is present, which supports my theory. clamber also seems to be cosmetic, as the spartan academy just showed a jump prompt but no clamber prompt.
this would mean halo infinite has toned down mythic slayer movement, but wrapped in a sprint & slide animation set. a good deal in my eyes.
Pheinted wrote:
Celestis wrote:
Darwi wrote:
I don't mean this at all to sound offensive, but you need to have played 5 at a certain level to realize how fast it is. You barely even touched the game. Theres no way you have any accurate data over it. The criteria of fast in halo 5 is the ability to create momentum shifts through advanced mobility synergistically during combat. I suggest some film review of good players to at least see some of the stuff you've most Likely never seen done before.

Many many many players complained that h5 is too fast, too competitive, too sweaty...even today this exists. It is not in their heads. Do you honestly believe for 1 second that if the game felt slower they'd be saying this.? When they're literally saying "sometimes I just wish I could chill out and play halo at a slower pace." These are the same players that hold a game like halo 3 dear to them. That's their concept of "chill" halo. This isn't to say 1 or the other is better, but it definitely shows their differences.

At any rate, halo infinite is missing the catalyst of the advanced movement that makes 5 feel fast. Thrusters. Could infinite feel slow? Idk maybe? I just want to play a new halo game tbh. I don't want to play halo 3. I don't want to play halo 5. I want to play halo infinite..then I'll make up my mind after I've spent a good amount of time with the game I may have an opinion that bares more weight.

If you decide to reply, please only reply to my portion so I can quote and not exceed the limit. I'm replying through my phone.
As someone who has put in countless hours into the multiplayer and was an onyx level player I can say it’s really not that fast💁.

clamber slows you down, stabilizing slowed you down, sprinting slowed you down soon as you ran into an engagement. It all has to do with combat readiness which is completely tossed away when you used these abilities. What’s actually faster is being able to crouch jump while still shooting, something you can’t do in halo 5 because soon as you clamber your gun is gone till the animation finishes. I won’t get into the competitiveness or sweatiness because all games had that excuse from select people, fact is those are the casual players so when you run into people playing more seriously even in a non ranked mode then of course it’ll be competitive (I did a lot of non ranked playing myself).

when it comes to map traversal itself sprinting elongates the maps, there are lots of videos comparing the older games BMS to sprint and times will be the same, why? Because maps are elongated for sprint but your traversal in all actuality isn’t increasing, you’re just traveling a longer distance which ends up equalizing it out to being the same as older games. So you mentioned there’s a reason people say halo is to fast, I’ll say people can say whatever but it doesn’t make it true in all cases and I will actually be one to say it’s in their head. Halo 5 could be fast because it’s kill times are shorter because team shooting is more prevalent, halo 5 could be faster simply cause it’s not running on 10 year old tech, I’d assume shooters today would run more fluidly today than they did back then based on controls, visuals that give illusions, and added little elements like the thruster that nullified strafing to an extent. But the way of moving IE it’s BMS and sprint? that’s not why it’ll be faster, not if you’re stretching the maps to accommodate them in the first place.
If you're clambering every jump then you don't know all the skill jumps bro. You don't have to clamber everything. So on one hand...a games default has a very basic crouch jump. You're combat ready. Got it. On the other, there's clamber. Additionally, there's stabilize jumps, knee cap jumps, spring jumps, thruster spring jumps, super slide jumps, there's times where you actually slide jump hover crouch and negate the clamber all while having your gun ready and actively firing it as well. You can scrutinize this amd say sell it's artificial skill gap because it has created an unnecessary button sequence or not tbh. That's your opinion.

I don't know when you played the game or when you got onyx. The game has a ton of depth in it. You can watch someone like shyway detail the movement out if you haven't. The game has momentum shifts in it. Thats why it feels fast. You have some basic 1v1s, and then you have some insane 1v1s...but that's not even considering what an entire team can do.

So your points are valid that yes there are weapon down times. Though it is not the end all be all because we already know there are bypasses to these things, and there are players who can do it and who can't.
Spam8358 wrote:
What’s the point of having sprint if it more or less have no effect?
They even let you sprint while holding the flag because you barely move faster anyway (Seen in video).
Is this not completely pointles?

Ether have sprint that let’s you actually run.
Or don’t have sprint at all and make the BMS as fast as Infinites current sprint.
it seems to be a cosmetic sprint at max bms. the "sprint" button seems to be mini thrusters. sliding is just what thrusters seemed to have turned into. in the campaign demo from last year a thruster use in mid air is present, which supports my theory. clamber also seems to be cosmetic, as the spartan academy just showed a jump prompt but no clamber prompt.
this would mean halo infinite has toned down mythic slayer movement, but wrapped in a sprint & slide animation set. a good deal in my eyes.
I'm not positive towards a sprint that doesn't make you sprint. Could you help me find where to see this mid air thrust? I didn't notice that :O

Edit: after more though, I'm not sure what you mean by cosmetic and mini-thrust
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