Skip to main content

Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

The return of classic movement mechanics?

OP A So So Sniper

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 298
  4. 299
  5. 300
  6. 301
  7. 302
  8. ...
  9. 311
Gearetic wrote:
Cobra J24 wrote:
Hello everyone. I have returned to this thread. I am here to say this...
After experiencing Halo 3 at a higher FoV, I feel it's very fast and puts into perspective just how quick the older games truly were. Halo CE, for example, is pretty fast especially with it's spawn setup and constant battle for powerups. This has changed my mind about Halo 5 being as fast as I thought. It's crazy how the FoV makes such a difference in how fast you feel.
I am also hopeful for the future, as Infinite looks like it has a very toned down version of sprint. I'm curious to see how it goes in gameplay.
Yeah, it's funny how one of the main arguments for Halo 4 - 5 style movement mechanics is that it makes those games faster than the classics, when I just found out the exact opposite is true.
Yeah I was stunned playing Halo 3 at 120 FoV for the first time. It was like I entered an alternate dimension or something
Cobra J24 wrote:
Gearetic wrote:
Cobra J24 wrote:
Hello everyone. I have returned to this thread. I am here to say this...
After experiencing Halo 3 at a higher FoV, I feel it's very fast and puts into perspective just how quick the older games truly were. Halo CE, for example, is pretty fast especially with it's spawn setup and constant battle for powerups. This has changed my mind about Halo 5 being as fast as I thought. It's crazy how the FoV makes such a difference in how fast you feel.
I am also hopeful for the future, as Infinite looks like it has a very toned down version of sprint. I'm curious to see how it goes in gameplay.
Yeah, it's funny how one of the main arguments for Halo 4 - 5 style movement mechanics is that it makes those games faster than the classics, when I just found out the exact opposite is true.
Yeah I was stunned playing Halo 3 at 120 FoV for the first time. It was like I entered an alternate dimension or something
FOV makes all the difference. I challenge any sweaty CoD, Battlefield or BR player to go into a Quake 3 or Unreal Tournament match and see how they fare. I don't think they could handle the sheer carnage.
INTIAL POST: In my opinion, this game has a really high chance of bringing back the classic gameplay so many old Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!

THREAD GUIDELINE: Considering the size of this thread, I strongly urge future commenters to not simply state which side of the debate you've chosen. You add nothing to this already large discussion if you merely exclaim, "No, don't remove sprint!" or "Sprint ruined Halo, it needs to go." Explain why you feel Halo has become better or worse with the new mechanics, and provide reasons to support your argument. Thank you.

- PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING - A few points that have already been thoroughly discussed, in favor of the removal of sprint, as said by commenters in this thread:1. Just because sprint is not present does not mean the game is going to be slow. There are many ways to give the player a feeling of speed without the inclusion of sprint, such as higher field of view, smaller maps, or just an increase in the base movement speed.
In terms of BTB-sized maps, the designers could be encouraged to implement more creative ways to traverse the map on foot, like the previously used teleporters, man-cannons, speed boosts, and vehicles, making each map far more unique than if they were all wide-open planes you simply run across to reach your destination. Sprint is arguably the laziest and least entertaining form of map traversal.

2. You can't just split the game in half, with one 'modern' side that has enhanced mobility and a 'classic' side that does not. The difference between the two are far too large to reuse any assets; there would have to be separate maps, extensively tweaked weapons and enemies, and much more. The massive differences essentially create two games in one, and 343 would not be able to support either side enough to satisfy both.
That being said, you also can't create a game around Spartan Abilities and then provide a little playlist that just doesn't have them. The balancing of the game around the enhanced movement will not flow smoothly if they just removed the abilities, when explosion radii are balanced around players thrusting out of the way, and tracking weapons to more strongly track to counter constant movement.

3. Sprint isn’t required to make an FPS in this day and age successful. Common examples of popular games without sprint include DOOM, Counterstrike, and Overwatch.
However, providing a list of modern games without sprint should not be necessary, because Halo shouldn't be trying to copy everyone else to begin with. There is clearly a lack of innovation in the game industry when a developer can only implement a unique mechanic if enough other games in the market have already attempted it and succeeded. That is commonly called 'chasing trends', which we should be mostly avoiding.

4. “Go play MCC if you want classic movement” is an invalid argument, because those in favor of its return could just as easily tell their opponents to go play Halo 5 if they want advanced movement.

5. The removal of sprint does not necessarily mean the game will be “dumbed down” from its predecessors and strip options from the player. It would, in fact, add more options, since one can now attack and move at max speed in all directions at all times. Sprint forces the player to choose whether to move or to shoot, when both areas of gameplay could be easily united if sprint is removed.

6. To expand on point 5., removing sprint does not mean we want another Halo 3 in terms of movement. New mechanics can be implemented, as long as it doesn’t result in separation of movement and combat. Thrust is generally friendly to the ‘guns always up’ philosophy, and many in this thread wouldn’t mind seeing its return.

7. Sprint does not need to be present in the game just because Spartans have sprinted in the canon and expanded universe. Spartans have also been shown to run at full speed while still being able to shoot, as seen in a repeatedly-referenced Halo Legends episode. Excusing sprint for the sake of canonical consistency could also lead to the inclusion of many other abilities that stray even further from the original gameplay formula, all for the sole purpose of ‘feeling like a Spartan’.

8. "Just don't sprint if you don't like it" is an invalid argument, because the entire design of the game, from map length to bullet magnetism, essentially requires you to sprint if victory is truly your goal. Refusing to sprint leads only to disadvantage as you are actively playing against the design of the game, so not sprinting is not as easy a decision as makers of this argument seem to think.
i dont like the fact you can run with the flag
Gearetic wrote:
Cobra J24 wrote:
Hello everyone. I have returned to this thread. I am here to say this...
After experiencing Halo 3 at a higher FoV, I feel it's very fast and puts into perspective just how quick the older games truly were. Halo CE, for example, is pretty fast especially with it's spawn setup and constant battle for powerups. This has changed my mind about Halo 5 being as fast as I thought. It's crazy how the FoV makes such a difference in how fast you feel.
I am also hopeful for the future, as Infinite looks like it has a very toned down version of sprint. I'm curious to see how it goes in gameplay.
Yeah, it's funny how one of the main arguments for Halo 4 - 5 style movement mechanics is that it makes those games faster than the classics, when I just found out the exact opposite is true.
I'm not trying to get into this thread alot again. But a higher fov on 5 would have the exact same effect of making it feel faster as it does on 3.
Kozren wrote:
I'm not trying to get into this thread alot again. But a higher fov on 5 would have the exact same effect of making it feel faster as it does on 3.
Yes?
But that's not the point, now is it?

Halo 3 is slow, Halo 3 is sluggish etc is something repeated a lot. That's basically the only Halo to be mentioned in that regard, despite all the three original Halos have the exact same base movement speed.
One of the things which did change was a decrease in FoV with each iteration, making them feel slower.

Fast forward to the implementation of Sprint, and one of the arguments is that it "makes the game faster" and, "it feels faster".

An increase in FoV thus solve the issue with Halo 3's sensation of speed.
It's an incredibly easy solution to that problem, and it's resource efficient without altering gameplay.
I'd love classic gameplay but removing sprint may feel a little too old school
slide would be the thrust function on ground. in the 2020 trailer chief seams to thrust in midair at a point.
i've watched the gameplay reveal trailer in 0.5 and 0.25 speed, and sprint and shooting seems to have the same speed. at two points a rotating point of view makes sprint seem slightly faster, but thats an optical trick.
this would mean the button to initiate sprinting is actualy just a mini forward thrust to cut the time to reach top speed short.
in the multiplayer reveal trailer in the spartan academy section there is a segment of a shown tutorial with an "press a to jump" propmpt, and the spartan clambers the ledge. so clamber is either an automatic function now or is an animation to make jumps look more fancy.

having sprint and clamber be animations makes the game look more modern. that is justifyable.
I haven't seen any midair thrusts, whereabouts is it? I've too reviewed all the gameplay in SlowMo, I haven't yet been able to reach a conclusive decision on sprint speed. It's either the same as base movement or only marginally faster. In this clip with the Bulldog it looks to be like the player slows down to shoot but the dynamic camera movement makes it hard to tell. There is a clip where a player Sprints away from a wraith and there is a noticeable increase in acceleration. Maybe there is some credence to sprint being an acceleration boost now.

I did notice there was no press 'a' to clamber prompt on the tutorial, but the clamber animation did seem to add vertical movement to the player, so I think it is still functionally clambering. Maybe the UI in the trailer is incomplete?

I have seen examples of sprint being interrupted by firing the BR, Bulldog, and Mangler instantly. Leading me to think there may actually be no delay on all weapons. I would like to know more about how the movement in HI works, Maybe when we get unfiltered gameplay footage of a multiplayer match...
slide would be the thrust function on ground. in the 2020 trailer chief seams to thrust in midair at a point.
i've watched the gameplay reveal trailer in 0.5 and 0.25 speed, and sprint and shooting seems to have the same speed. at two points a rotating point of view makes sprint seem slightly faster, but thats an optical trick.
this would mean the button to initiate sprinting is actualy just a mini forward thrust to cut the time to reach top speed short.
in the multiplayer reveal trailer in the spartan academy section there is a segment of a shown tutorial with an "press a to jump" propmpt, and the spartan clambers the ledge. so clamber is either an automatic function now or is an animation to make jumps look more fancy.

having sprint and clamber be animations makes the game look more modern. that is justifyable.
I haven't seen any midair thrusts, whereabouts is it? I've too reviewed all the gameplay in SlowMo, I haven't yet been able to reach a conclusive decision on sprint speed. It's either the same as base movement or only marginally faster. In this clip with the Bulldog it looks to be like the player slows down to shoot but the dynamic camera movement makes it hard to tell. There is a clip where a player Sprints away from a wraith and there is a noticeable increase in acceleration. Maybe there is some credence to sprint being an acceleration boost now.

I did notice there was no press 'a' to clamber prompt on the tutorial, but the clamber animation did seem to add vertical movement to the player, so I think it is still functionally clambering. Maybe the UI in the trailer is incomplete?

I have seen examples of sprint being interrupted by firing the BR, Bulldog, and Mangler instantly. Leading me to think there may actually be no delay on all weapons. I would like to know more about how the movement in HI works, Maybe when we get unfiltered gameplay footage of a multiplayer match...
what seems like a slowdown with the bulldog is the spartan going from a leaning forward into a straight standing position, the feet keep the same speed.
i think the sprint is an automatic animation, but the sprint button gives a small forward thrust for more acceleration. basicly reskinned thrusters
this might be a midair thrust or slide is a new sideways thrust animation and a jump was chained into it while being in the animation.

the clamber might just be an animation for a successfull jump, with the bob just being the player coliding with the edge and falling down onto the top, a suboptimal jump (basicly a small bounce that happens in classic halo if you jump to late and slightly hit the wall instead of doing a smooth jump to the top)
Kozren wrote:
Gearetic wrote:
Cobra J24 wrote:
Hello everyone. I have returned to this thread. I am here to say this...
After experiencing Halo 3 at a higher FoV, I feel it's very fast and puts into perspective just how quick the older games truly were. Halo CE, for example, is pretty fast especially with it's spawn setup and constant battle for powerups. This has changed my mind about Halo 5 being as fast as I thought. It's crazy how the FoV makes such a difference in how fast you feel.
I am also hopeful for the future, as Infinite looks like it has a very toned down version of sprint. I'm curious to see how it goes in gameplay.
Yeah, it's funny how one of the main arguments for Halo 4 - 5 style movement mechanics is that it makes those games faster than the classics, when I just found out the exact opposite is true.
I'm not trying to get into this thread alot again. But a higher fov on 5 would have the exact same effect of making it feel faster as it does on 3.
Like Naqser already mentioned, that's beside the point.

A common argument for advanced movement is that it makes the newer games faster than the old games, when it actually doesn't.

Halos 1-3 all play objectively faster than any of the new Halos. For example, CE's normal movement speed is about the same if not even faster than sprinting in Halo 5, relative to the size of the maps. And, because of the nuances of how CE's maps and gameplay are designed, there's is far less time spent camping, sprinting or being stuck in a clunky animation and more time spent shooting - making the gameplay loop considerably faster and more frenetic.
what seems like a slowdown with the bulldog is the spartan going from a leaning forward into a straight standing position, the feet keep the same speed.
i think the sprint is an automatic animation, but the sprint button gives a small forward thrust for more acceleration. basicly reskinned thrusters
this might be a midair thrust or slide is a new sideways thrust animation and a jump was chained into it while being in the animation.

the clamber might just be an animation for a successfull jump, with the bob just being the player coliding with the edge and falling down onto the top, a suboptimal jump (basicly a small bounce that happens in classic halo if you jump to late and slightly hit the wall instead of doing a smooth jump to the top)
It looked to me like a slide rapidly followed by a jump, with no sprint frames leading into the slide. The more I analyse it, the more I'm convinced Slide is Halo Infinite's version of thrust, and it is not directly tied to Sprint.
what seems like a slowdown with the bulldog is the spartan going from a leaning forward into a straight standing position, the feet keep the same speed.
i think the sprint is an automatic animation, but the sprint button gives a small forward thrust for more acceleration. basicly reskinned thrusters
this might be a midair thrust or slide is a new sideways thrust animation and a jump was chained into it while being in the animation.

the clamber might just be an animation for a successfull jump, with the bob just being the player coliding with the edge and falling down onto the top, a suboptimal jump (basicly a small bounce that happens in classic halo if you jump to late and slightly hit the wall instead of doing a smooth jump to the top)
It looked to me like a slide rapidly followed by a jump, with no sprint frames leading into the slide. The more I analyse it, the more I'm convinced Slide is Halo Infinite's version of thrust, and it is not directly tied to Sprint.
thats what i'm thinking. and "sprint" is just the new top base movement speed, with the sprint button beinhg forward thrusters. pushing it when you already are at top speed would triger forward sliding.
I’m hoping the world is open enough that sprint will feel useful but won’t negate the need and use of vehicles
I’m hoping the world is open enough that sprint will feel useful but won’t negate the need and use of vehicles
from what is visible, the sprinting is an animation for regular top movement speed. the top bms speed has definetly increased though. the sprint button semms to give an acceleration boost to bring you to top speed without the regular speed up time.
I’m hoping the world is open enough that sprint will feel useful but won’t negate the need and use of vehicles
I hope that too. If you remember, in the July demo, Chief straight up sprints to a vehicle...lol
I’m hoping the world is open enough that sprint will feel useful but won’t negate the need and use of vehicles
from what is visible, the sprinting is an animation for regular top movement speed. the top bms speed has definetly increased though. the sprint button semms to give an acceleration boost to bring you to top speed without the regular speed up time.
I think you should tone down the enthusiasm a bit (pertaining to telling everybody sprint is just an animation). The reality is that there is no evidence one way or the other. The footage is so vague that anyone can see what they want to see in it. We really know nothing until somebody does something more systematic than "I think X because of the way it looks".
Well we know that's not happening and have done a long time haha
Naqser wrote:
Kozren wrote:
I'm not trying to get into this thread alot again. But a higher fov on 5 would have the exact same effect of making it feel faster as it does on 3.
Yes?
But that's not the point, now is it?

Halo 3 is slow, Halo 3 is sluggish etc is something repeated a lot. That's basically the only Halo to be mentioned in that regard, despite all the three original Halos have the exact same base movement speed.
One of the things which did change was a decrease in FoV with each iteration, making them feel slower.

Fast forward to the implementation of Sprint, and one of the arguments is that it "makes the game faster" and, "it feels faster".

An increase in FoV thus solve the issue with Halo 3's sensation of speed.
It's an incredibly easy solution to that problem, and it's resource efficient without altering gameplay.
3s speed gets criticism a lot, but what isn't taken into factor is the difference in BMS within the playlist. Like the very competitive players played the MLG playlist. The movement speed is faster than the default speed (non MLG playlist)..which is where most players feel that sluggishness. I think it's a similar feeling going into mcc and playing reach social vs the competitive settings. Been quite some time since I went into mcc but I recall trying it out and there's a noticeable difference.

Sprint in most of the halo games weren't implemented well imo. In 5 thrusters serve as the catalyst to use these button sequences with the movement to cause momentum shifts. Like bursts throughout the map. I'd say at a low level in game, they're basically used defensive. Evade a grenade or thrust to cover. That's it. At a mid level you'll get some map traversal momentum. At the higher level, you get all that, way more crazy map skill jumps and offensive momentum capabilities. It's both awesome and annoying to the players though. To some it's too much and just becomes a game that no longer feels like halo despite the core of halo as far as gun play, shields, grenades and no hindrance to hip fire goes.

As far as the FOV stuff goes I honestly never looked into that. For sure though, 3 had 2 different speeds in the game though. I'd still say there's a big difference between a game actually being faster and then just looking faster. Which this is the huge debate surrounding a mechanic like sprint. "The illusion of moving faster due to the maps being stretched out when the reality is that without sprint you'd get there at walk speed without the map being stretched out."

Which that's true. I only ever argue over that in 5 because 5 has this magic formula for movement. It isn't clear cut like that. Not with the type of skill jumps in 5, and not with what you could do with all that gained skill once you've honed most of it. There's so much more you could do with it besides running away from an encounter or a clear straight forward sprint to point B from A.

Like to me it's the pinnacle of advanced movement for halo. It should never go further than that if it ever were to go back to advanced movement settings. It's awesome, but already too much for a large portion of the population....hence...the population drop off. I'm happy that Infinite will be a different game. Although its been fun in 5 learning all the stuff you could do in it, I just really want a new halo game that won't be like any of the others because that's how a new halo should be. Halo, but it's own halo. Familiar, but still different.

Sorry if I jumped all over the place.
I feel good about the new movement mechanics.

Sprint is present, and I know people will always be divided on that topic. Although based on guesswork from seeing the MP gameplay, sprint seems to be nerfed. Rather, it looks like an increment to base speed more than anything. Assume base movement speed is 1.20. Sprinting brings it to 1.40. If anything, the divide between sprint and standard movement speed has been significantly lessened. Quick enough to move around, but not so large that it requires maps to be designed around insane distance covering.
tsassi wrote:
I’m hoping the world is open enough that sprint will feel useful but won’t negate the need and use of vehicles
from what is visible, the sprinting is an animation for regular top movement speed. the top bms speed has definetly increased though. the sprint button semms to give an acceleration boost to bring you to top speed without the regular speed up time.
I think you should tone down the enthusiasm a bit (pertaining to telling everybody sprint is just an animation). The reality is that there is no evidence one way or the other. The footage is so vague that anyone can see what they want to see in it. We really know nothing until somebody does something more systematic than "I think X because of the way it looks".
of course. there is no comfirmation.
evidence however exists in the form of the aviable trailer footage. this footage either shows sprint being an animation or it being toned down to the point of doubting its presence. the action and camera position movements are the biggest factors of uncertainty. i have 0.5 and 0.25 speed video playback to get close to sturdy evidence.
the next step would be a frame timed shifting grid analysis, but thats beyond my editing skills. best i could do would be a stopwatch and a ruler.

i have presented video timestamps in another thread and can repeat them here:
in this video: Halo Infinite | Multiplayer Reveal Trailer - A New GenerationThere are multiple moments where sprint and shooting seem equaly fast, even under 0.25 speed analysis:
at 0:15 there are two spartans running at seemingly the same speed, one with the weapon down, the other firing.
at 0:22 a spartan is sprinting and pulling up the MA40 and firing without slowing down noticably.
the spartans at the bottom left at 0:39 seem to be fighting at the same speed, one sprinting, the others not.
the first person spartan at 0:46 seems to keep the same speed after firing the BR.

in the halo infinite 2020 trailer master chief slides without a sprint beforehand at 5:15
in the multiplayer overview at 10:00 clamber is performed, but only a button prompt of "press A to jump" is shown, no clamber prompt.

all these cases support my hypothesis of sprint being an animation for top bms, clamber being an animation, the sprint button (which was shown in an infinite update blog) being forward thrust to get to top bms and slide being the animation for the other possible thrust directions.

Making clear that this a hypothesis, and not confirmed in any way, is something i can do for future post concerning this topic.
with the seeming presence of sprint and how distraught people are over it, a bit of hope and explaination how both classic and advanced movement fans can get their part is helpful. i have seen others formulating this hypothesis too.

if sprint is simply nerfed and well integrated, thats mostly fine too. not as awesome imo, but still good enough for a fun game.
Pheinted wrote:
3s speed gets criticism a lot, but what isn't taken into factor is the difference in BMS within the playlist. Like the very competitive players played the MLG playlist. The movement speed is faster than the default speed (non MLG playlist)..which is where most players feel that sluggishness. I think it's a similar feeling going into mcc and playing reach social vs the competitive settings. Been quite some time since I went into mcc but I recall trying it out and there's a noticeable difference.
I'm just saying, the increase in movement speed wasn't done in a vacuum in Halo 3. MLG didn't like the random spread of the BR, so they buffed the damage it by 10% in order to keep it more consistent at midrange. But in doing so, it made it more accurate, so the movement speed was also increased by 10%.

Pheinted wrote:
Sprint in most of the halo games weren't implemented well imo. In 5 thrusters serve as the catalyst to use these button sequences with the movement to cause momentum shifts. Like bursts throughout the map. I'd say at a low level in game, they're basically used defensive. Evade a grenade or thrust to cover. That's it. At a mid level you'll get some map traversal momentum. At the higher level, you get all that, way more crazy map skill jumps and offensive momentum capabilities. It's both awesome and annoying to the players though. To some it's too much and just becomes a game that no longer feels like halo despite the core of halo as far as gun play, shields, grenades and no hindrance to hip fire goes.
I am fairly confident in saying that as soon as Halo: Ininfite will come out, people will champion it as the best advance movement over the game before it, because that happens every game.
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 298
  4. 299
  5. 300
  6. 301
  7. 302
  8. ...
  9. 311