Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

The return of classic movement mechanics?

OP A So So Sniper

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I like sprint. People make too big of a deal about it. It's in Halo 4, 5, and even somewhat in Reach. It's bound to be in Halo 6. If 343 scraps sprint, then at least supplement us with the best Halo game possible or fast jogging speeds because Halo 3 felt so slow paced. 4v4 matches are fine because it was often in small maps but when it comes to big team battle and warzone... NO THANK YOU to no sprint lol.
Halo 1-3 all have the same player speed, the reason why Halo 3 felt so slow is because it has the lowest FOV of all the FPS Halos and decreased player acceleration. This is Halo 3 with 150 FOV, I know most will think this is to high and i agree, but it shows what increasing it over the default 70 FOV has to the feel of game pace.
I like sprint. People make too big of a deal about it. It's in Halo 4, 5, and even somewhat in Reach. It's bound to be in Halo 6. If 343 scraps sprint, then at least supplement us with the best Halo game possible or fast jogging speeds because Halo 3 felt so slow paced. 4v4 matches are fine because it was often in small maps but when it comes to big team battle and warzone... NO THANK YOU to no sprint lol.
Halo 1-3 all have the same player speed, the reason why Halo 3 felt so slow is because it has the lowest FOV of all the FPS Halos and decreased player acceleration. This is Halo 3 with 150 FOV, I know most will think this is to high and i agree, but it shows what increasing it over the default 70 FOV has to the feel of game pace.
When you use acronyms, you might want to explain what it stands for. I watched the video and now I know, but I didn't know what FOV stood for prior to this conversation. Anyway, low FOV or not, I just hope H6 doesn't feel like it takes forever to get somewhere. Sprint doesn't mean the end of the world. When I play Arena, I never use sprint. When I'm playing anything past 4v4s, I use sprint a ton to get to objectives and to vehicles.

You know what could possibly solve this issue? Maybe 343 can just have a separate competitive playlist with no sprint in the future.
You know what could possibly solve this issue? Maybe 343 can just have a separate competitive playlist with no sprint in the future.
This has been countered many times in this thread already. You can’t just have a classic movement playlist in an advanced movement game, since every aspect of the game is designed to work with advanced movement. Explosions would be bigger, aim assist would be stronger, everything would be tweaked to counter things like sprint. Having a competitive playlist without sprint in a sandbox designed around sprint would be broken as hell.
I like sprint. People make too big of a deal about it. It's in Halo 4, 5, and even somewhat in Reach. It's bound to be in Halo 6. If 343 scraps sprint, then at least supplement us with the best Halo game possible or fast jogging speeds because Halo 3 felt so slow paced. 4v4 matches are fine because it was often in small maps but when it comes to big team battle and warzone... NO THANK YOU to no sprint lol.
Halo 1-3 all have the same player speed, the reason why Halo 3 felt so slow is because it has the lowest FOV of all the FPS Halos and decreased player acceleration. This is Halo 3 with 150 FOV, I know most will think this is to high and i agree, but it shows what increasing it over the default 70 FOV has to the feel of game pace.
When you use acronyms, you might want to explain what it stands for. I watched the video and now I know, but I didn't know what FOV stood for prior to this conversation. Anyway, low FOV or not, I just hope H6 doesn't feel like it takes forever to get somewhere. Sprint doesn't mean the end of the world. When I play Arena, I never use sprint. When I'm playing anything past 4v4s, I use sprint a ton to get to objectives and to vehicles.

You know what could possibly solve this issue? Maybe 343 can just have a separate competitive playlist with no sprint in the future.
Why don't you sprint when playing arena?

You mention you'll use it in bigger formats than 4v4 to hit objectives and reach vehicles, but what of power ups and power weapons in a 4v4 format? You become a liability in choosing not to sprint, it's why the statement "don't sprint if you don't like it" isn't a viable one when certain people feel the need to say it.
You know what could possibly solve this issue? Maybe 343 can just have a separate competitive playlist with no sprint in the future.
This has been countered many times in this thread already. You can’t just have a classic movement playlist in an advanced movement game, since every aspect of the game is designed to work with advanced movement. Explosions would be bigger, aim assist would be stronger, everything would be tweaked to counter things like sprint. Having a competitive playlist without sprint in a sandbox designed around sprint would be broken as hell.
After the latest HCS World Championship, pros started testing settings without sprint and with a BMS raised to around sprint speed. I watched most (if not all) of these test sessions on twitch and it sure sounded like the consensus between pros was that the gameplay felt good. Actually, that's kind of downplaying it. Snakebite (whose team has won two out of the last three world championships) actually went on a long, very energetic/enthusiastic (which isn't like his normal self at all) rant at one point about how much better the game felt even without sprint on maps that were made to be played with sprint. It makes sense to me because, well, there's a lot of people who say sprint should be removed (which I agree with) but that also say 343 should up the base movement speed instead. However, if the BMS is raised to sprint speed, wouldn't we need to expand the maps to counter it anyway? I'm guessing it would depend on how much we raise the BMS because it worked fine in the ol' Halo 3 MLG playlist (iIrc).

But by upping BMS to sprint speed on a map designed for sprint, wouldn't explosions and the aim assist have about the same effectiveness?
You know what could possibly solve this issue? Maybe 343 can just have a separate competitive playlist with no sprint in the future.
After the latest HCS World Championship, pros started testing settings without sprint and with a BMS raised to around sprint speed. I watched most (if not all) of these test sessions on twitch and it sure sounded like the consensus between pros was that the gameplay felt good. Actually, that's kind of downplaying it. Snakebite (whose team has won two out of the last three world championships) actually went on a long, very energetic/enthusiastic (which isn't like his normal self at all) rant at one point about how much better the game felt even without sprint on maps that were made to be played with sprint. It makes sense to me because, well, there's a lot of people who say sprint should be removed (which I agree with) but that also say 343 should up the base movement speed instead. However, if the BMS is raised to sprint speed, wouldn't we need to expand the maps to counter it anyway? I'm guessing it would depend on how much we raise the BMS because it worked fine in the ol' Halo 3 MLG playlist (iIrc).

But by upping BMS to sprint speed on a map designed for sprint, wouldn't explosions and the aim assist have about the same effectiveness?
That’s an interesting idea. When the person I was quoting suggested a playlist without sprint in a game with it, I assumed he meant running around at the default movement speed, which would make for some pretty slow gameplay. Perhaps making sprint speed the default speed could work well, but that might make you feel like you’re moving at ludicrous speeds in every direction like you’re playing Doom, which I think is a tad too fast for Halo. I’d be willing to try it, but I’d still prefer it if they just went back to classic movement speeds and just make the maps smaller.
I like sprint. People make too big of a deal about it. It's in Halo 4, 5, and even somewhat in Reach. It's bound to be in Halo 6. If 343 scraps sprint, then at least supplement us with the best Halo game possible or fast jogging speeds because Halo 3 felt so slow paced. 4v4 matches are fine because it was often in small maps but when it comes to big team battle and warzone... NO THANK YOU to no sprint lol.
Ugh HALO WAS SUPPOSED TO BE SLOW AND NO SLOW ISN'T A BAD THING THAT'S OBJECTIVE SO THERE WAS NEVER A NEED TO CHANGE IT. I think 343 should make classic and modern style games every other time. But if Infinite is "too slow", then here's some advise... GO PLAY TITANFALL OR CALL OF DUTY. THEY WERE MEANT TO BE FAST.
Personally, I think the current HCS settings are what Halo Infinite should be based off of.
You know what could possibly solve this issue? Maybe 343 can just have a separate competitive playlist with no sprint in the future.
This has been countered many times in this thread already. You can’t just have a classic movement playlist in an advanced movement game, since every aspect of the game is designed to work with advanced movement. Explosions would be bigger, aim assist would be stronger, everything would be tweaked to counter things like sprint. Having a competitive playlist without sprint in a sandbox designed around sprint would be broken as hell.
I mean, I wouldn't take it to the extreme as "broken as hell" lol. If I we're to play a match with without sprint, I think it'd be fine. You need to remember that there are other abilities at your disposal like thruster pack. No amount of tweaking will save you from a well placed grenade regardless of sprint or not.
I like sprint. People make too big of a deal about it. It's in Halo 4, 5, and even somewhat in Reach. It's bound to be in Halo 6. If 343 scraps sprint, then at least supplement us with the best Halo game possible or fast jogging speeds because Halo 3 felt so slow paced. 4v4 matches are fine because it was often in small maps but when it comes to big team battle and warzone... NO THANK YOU to no sprint lol.
Halo 1-3 all have the same player speed, the reason why Halo 3 felt so slow is because it has the lowest FOV of all the FPS Halos and decreased player acceleration. This is Halo 3 with 150 FOV, I know most will think this is to high and i agree, but it shows what increasing it over the default 70 FOV has to the feel of game pace.
When you use acronyms, you might want to explain what it stands for. I watched the video and now I know, but I didn't know what FOV stood for prior to this conversation. Anyway, low FOV or not, I just hope H6 doesn't feel like it takes forever to get somewhere. Sprint doesn't mean the end of the world. When I play Arena, I never use sprint. When I'm playing anything past 4v4s, I use sprint a ton to get to objectives and to vehicles.

You know what could possibly solve this issue? Maybe 343 can just have a separate competitive playlist with no sprint in the future.
Why don't you sprint when playing arena?

You mention you'll use it in bigger formats than 4v4 to hit objectives and reach vehicles, but what of power ups and power weapons in a 4v4 format? You become a liability in choosing not to sprint, it's why the statement "don't sprint if you don't like it" isn't a viable one when certain people feel the need to say it.
You took the "forever" I typed to the extreme lol. Of course I sprint, but it's not always my go to choice the entire match. Paced shots and patience help me a little bit, I've learned sprinting everywhere all the time isn't the solution nor good. I like to bait objectives and power weapons.
I like sprint. People make too big of a deal about it. It's in Halo 4, 5, and even somewhat in Reach. It's bound to be in Halo 6. If 343 scraps sprint, then at least supplement us with the best Halo game possible or fast jogging speeds because Halo 3 felt so slow paced. 4v4 matches are fine because it was often in small maps but when it comes to big team battle and warzone... NO THANK YOU to no sprint lol.
Ugh HALO WAS SUPPOSED TO BE SLOW AND NO SLOW ISN'T A BAD THING THAT'S OBJECTIVE SO THERE WAS NEVER A NEED TO CHANGE IT. I think 343 should make classic and modern style games every other time. But if Infinite is "too slow", then here's some advise... GO PLAY TITANFALL OR CALL OF DUTY. THEY WERE MEANT TO BE FAST.
Relax movement speed police lol. 343 is the deciding factor of what Halo is supposed to be.

Anyway, I'm going to discontinue replies after this. This is one ugly thread, I stated my opinion and it got picked apart. Geez lol.
You know what could possibly solve this issue? Maybe 343 can just have a separate competitive playlist with no sprint in the future.
This has been countered many times in this thread already. You can’t just have a classic movement playlist in an advanced movement game, since every aspect of the game is designed to work with advanced movement. Explosions would be bigger, aim assist would be stronger, everything would be tweaked to counter things like sprint. Having a competitive playlist without sprint in a sandbox designed around sprint would be broken as hell.
I mean, I wouldn't take it to the extreme as "broken as hell" lol. If I we're to play a match with without sprint, I think it'd be fine. You need to remember that there are other abilities at your disposal like thruster pack. No amount of tweaking will save you from a well placed grenade regardless of sprint or not.
I like sprint. People make too big of a deal about it. It's in Halo 4, 5, and even somewhat in Reach. It's bound to be in Halo 6. If 343 scraps sprint, then at least supplement us with the best Halo game possible or fast jogging speeds because Halo 3 felt so slow paced. 4v4 matches are fine because it was often in small maps but when it comes to big team battle and warzone... NO THANK YOU to no sprint lol.
Halo 1-3 all have the same player speed, the reason why Halo 3 felt so slow is because it has the lowest FOV of all the FPS Halos and decreased player acceleration. This is Halo 3 with 150 FOV, I know most will think this is to high and i agree, but it shows what increasing it over the default 70 FOV has to the feel of game pace.
When you use acronyms, you might want to explain what it stands for. I watched the video and now I know, but I didn't know what FOV stood for prior to this conversation. Anyway, low FOV or not, I just hope H6 doesn't feel like it takes forever to get somewhere. Sprint doesn't mean the end of the world. When I play Arena, I never use sprint. When I'm playing anything past 4v4s, I use sprint a ton to get to objectives and to vehicles.

You know what could possibly solve this issue? Maybe 343 can just have a separate competitive playlist with no sprint in the future.
Why don't you sprint when playing arena?

You mention you'll use it in bigger formats than 4v4 to hit objectives and reach vehicles, but what of power ups and power weapons in a 4v4 format? You become a liability in choosing not to sprint, it's why the statement "don't sprint if you don't like it" isn't a viable one when certain people feel the need to say it.
You took the "forever" I typed to the extreme lol. Of course I sprint, but it's not always my go to choice the entire match. Paced shots and patience help me a little bit, I've learned sprinting everywhere all the time isn't the solution nor good. I like to bait objectives and power weapons.
I like sprint. People make too big of a deal about it. It's in Halo 4, 5, and even somewhat in Reach. It's bound to be in Halo 6. If 343 scraps sprint, then at least supplement us with the best Halo game possible or fast jogging speeds because Halo 3 felt so slow paced. 4v4 matches are fine because it was often in small maps but when it comes to big team battle and warzone... NO THANK YOU to no sprint lol.
Ugh HALO WAS SUPPOSED TO BE SLOW AND NO SLOW ISN'T A BAD THING THAT'S OBJECTIVE SO THERE WAS NEVER A NEED TO CHANGE IT. I think 343 should make classic and modern style games every other time. But if Infinite is "too slow", then here's some advise... GO PLAY TITANFALL OR CALL OF DUTY. THEY WERE MEANT TO BE FAST.
Relax movement speed police lol. 343 is the deciding factor of what Halo is supposed to be.

Anyway, I'm going to discontinue replies after this. This is one ugly thread, I stated my opinion and it got picked apart. Geez lol.
Sorry if I’ve been coming off as a speed popo, it’s just I can’t stand it when people say any game with a Halo title is a HALO game. Ie, if Infinite turns out to be a JRPG with Master Chief as the party leader and Blue Team as his party, would that REALLY be a Halo game? Legally, it’s Halo, and maybe even artistically, it’s Halo, but that doesn’t make it the HALO 7 million people lost after Reach.
I personally would take Halo 2's speed acceleration with maybe a toned down thruster pack. No clamber or slide. I've been playing a lot of classic Halo 2 and I love the movement speed.
You know what could possibly solve this issue? Maybe 343 can just have a separate competitive playlist with no sprint in the future.
This has been countered many times in this thread already. You can’t just have a classic movement playlist in an advanced movement game, since every aspect of the game is designed to work with advanced movement. Explosions would be bigger, aim assist would be stronger, everything would be tweaked to counter things like sprint. Having a competitive playlist without sprint in a sandbox designed around sprint would be broken as hell.
LMAO yes you can. See: MLG playlist in Reach. No Bloom, No Sprint. Maps were built around higher base movement speed.
A lot of good points on both sides. Immersion, gameplay, fore lore and for balancing. Nice convo and all, but in the end, look deep down yourself. Ask, “knowing how 343 takes the safest approach to their games, would they really be willing to make the biggest gameplay statement since Reach just disappear?” And I say 343 has been playing things safe in that, abilities and flashy mobility feats have been the go to in these times, and the way they choose to construct their story.

Quite frankly, I think 343 doesn’t have the guts to take out Sprint. I think they’re too afraid to do it now. Anyways, I think the best solution if Sprint is to be removed, is keep some sort of thruster or maneuvering ability (like a take on reach’s evade). Regardless of what they choose to do, I think we can all agree that we at least need to keep something to spice up the mobility even if in very short bursts. As an old time player, sure no sprint and 0 spartan abilities is cool, but I think we should evolve the play at least some. There’s nothing wrong with at least keeping a side step roll or something. I didn’t come all this way to see Halo still continue the same stagnant movement speed with nothing juicy to add to it.. if so I’d be playing MCC all day...
I think this is a pretty good post bro and agree with a lot of what your saying.

I don't 343I/MS have the guts either to remove the sprint animation. If I had to bet, I'd say Halo 6 movement will be a lot like Halo 5. I hear a lot of people say things like if sprint was removed, some type of thrust or something should be keep. I don't have a problem with that at all, nor do I think the majority of people.

Like you, I'm also an old time player (started with CE, got it first month it was out) and I think most of us "old" gamers who started with CE or 2 don't want that "same stagnant movement speed with nothing juicy to add to it" either, far from it actually.

I still feel like equipment, or AA's as map pick up items or something like this, is the way to go. You could do so many things in this area. Did people love equipment in Halo 3? I'd say it was liked more then disliked, mainly because the player knew it was a one time use thing. When AA's came in, the problem wasn't that people hated the idea of say a jetpack or something, it was the fact they started with it and it had unlimited use. I guarantee you if Halo 3 did something like this with equipment it would have been hated to the max.

Things like a speed boosts, or ground pound, or whatever could all be map pick up, one time use items. Having this kind of stuff on the board that can change you per say, so much, also makes players decided what they go for. Should I go for power weapons? Or things to enhance my mobility? I just think that is more along the Halo style instead of this let's give all these things to the player but give it to all players to make it "balance" and by doing so we are also making the controls so much more complex for the average player. Where as if you make things simpler with the game mechanics, that will also make controls simpler too, and I think that's one thing lot of people over look. How important it is to have simple, not complicated controls.

Personally, I just think the sprint animation just isn't needed in Halo and there are a lot of cooler, better and frankly just more fun things you could have in Halo instead. Will 343I do this? I doubt it, but hey, you never know...
I completely agree, and I have no idea why equipment was ever axed. Having a one time usage ability that also had a decent respawn timer, was the best way to bring another feature to the sandbox without it being too imposing on the gameplay. Halo 3 had it right, and while I did enjoy Reach, bringing permanent abilities into loadouts was simply to drastic and unbalanced. It created much randomness and too many cons and pros for a said ability, just over complicated the gameplay. Halo 3 definitely had it right with equipment, would love to see that return. Also, i feel the same about sprint animation. I proposed the idea a long time ago that if you're going to include sprint, then at least takeout the weapon lowering and allow use of max speed in every direction so that it's reminiscent of movement speed; also, to allow us to be able to shoot, melee and do whatever during the speed boost. I figured you might as well go all the way with it.
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“Soon Halo’s reclamation will begin, but when it does, the weight of your denial will stay your feet, and you shall be left behind ”
I have never understood the "classic movement mechanics" debate.

I LOVE the old games, when they came out and even now. I love the new games just as much. But with each game, each aspect of it evolves and improves, including the movement mechanics.
The faster and more agile the movement mechanics, the more I personally feel immersed in both the gameplay and the story. I mean, we are playing as supersoldiers after all, should they be able to sprint, roll, dive, climb or anything that a normal person can do but better/faster?
i agree i feel like when they introduce the new style in halo 4 that it looked and felt more... real like how halo wars 1 cutscnes were... i felt like a super soilder was actually playing instead a stiff person i really dont understand why everyone loves the old mechanics... games need to freaking evolve...

make it halo wars 2 art style, have the ability to sprint and climb stuff, assasinate,dodge left and right like any normal human can do instead of jumpiing 20 feet high and slowly come back down.
what is there to halo? jumping 20 feet high and slowly coming back down wtf is that be real. im a halo fan straight up but going completely back is ridiculous find a middle ground.
I have never understood the "classic movement mechanics" debate.

I LOVE the old games, when they came out and even now. I love the new games just as much. But with each game, each aspect of it evolves and improves, including the movement mechanics.
The faster and more agile the movement mechanics, the more I personally feel immersed in both the gameplay and the story. I mean, we are playing as supersoldiers after all, should they be able to sprint, roll, dive, climb or anything that a normal person can do but better/faster?
i agree i feel like when they introduce the new style in halo 4 that it looked and felt more... real like how halo wars 1 cutscnes were... i felt like a super soilder was actually playing instead a stiff person i really dont understand why everyone loves the old mechanics... games need to freaking evolve...

make it halo wars 2 art style, have the ability to sprint and climb stuff, assasinate,dodge left and right like any normal human can do instead of jumpiing 20 feet high and slowly come back down.
what is there to halo? jumping 20 feet high and slowly coming back down wtf is that be real. im a halo fan straight up but going completely back is ridiculous find a middle ground.
What do mean “evolve”!? So every game needs to be a CoD rip-off and go with the trends? But where’s the variety in that?
And again, “realism” doesn’t matter. If that’s the case then I demand Halo be more lore accurate and LET ME SCRAMBLE ME SPARTAN EGG!! Doom 2016 has no sprint OR reloading but guess what? It’s still one of the best selling games of 2016! If you don’t like slowness then go play CoD.
i really dont understand why everyone loves the old mechanics... games need to freaking evolve...
What is "evolve" in this case? Going back to old mechanics doesn't sound like a problem, otherwise you'd have a problem with Halo 5 returning to equal starts.

Can I say that every Halo after 3 was devolving because Chief can't dual wield anymore? I mean, that's something a "normal human" can do.
i really dont understand why everyone loves the old mechanics... games need to freaking evolve...
What is "evolve" in this case? Going back to old mechanics doesn't sound like a problem, otherwise you'd have a problem with Halo 5 returning to equal starts.

Can I say that every Halo after 3 was devolving because Chief can't dual wield anymore? I mean, that's something a "normal human" can do.
I'm not disagreeing with you in general, in fact I'm fairly impartial to this whole debate. I enjoy Halo in general and each game has been fun, just like each game changes my expectation and style of playing it changes and I enjoy each game accordingly.
My only hope regarding this debate is that the devs don't feel influenced in either direction by the loud fans, that they take objective info from these debates and then apply the learned general desires/expectations within the parameters of their own creative direction and desires.

I'm an artist of a different kind to 343i and all their crew, but when the consumers try to control what the artists make, in my experience, it's usually detrimental to the final piece of art if the artists fold too much to control and don't apply their own creative and functional visions.

But I do have to (being a little nitpicky perhaps) argue the "normal human can do it," thing. I'm all for being more immersed as a player because the character is doing something that reflects realism, and I know you made that point sarcastically, but a normal human can't dual fire submachine guns or high calibre pistols. The amount of recoil would be madness to attempt normally, especially in an active warzone/firefight.
Especially accurately in a frenetic environment. Although obviously, you can argue that they're physically augmented supersoldiers and they're wearing power armour and thus would or could likely have the physical capability to do that.

Before I go off topic there, what I'm getting at is: You and I (representative of all the various Halo consumers out there) probably enjoy very different things with very different attitudes. How can 343i choose which of us to cater to? What is the best method to cater to one or both of us? A general approach that attempts to meet both kinds of debates in the middle?
I understand that we all enjoy different aspects to different degrees; it would just be nice to see all of us show a lot less animosity towards each other (and 343i) for what we personally prefer and what is being produced.
i really dont understand why everyone loves the old mechanics... games need to freaking evolve...
What is "evolve" in this case? Going back to old mechanics doesn't sound like a problem, otherwise you'd have a problem with Halo 5 returning to equal starts.

Can I say that every Halo after 3 was devolving because Chief can't dual wield anymore? I mean, that's something a "normal human" can do.
I'm not disagreeing with you in general, in fact I'm fairly impartial to this whole debate. I enjoy Halo in general and each game has been fun, just like each game changes my expectation and style of playing it changes and I enjoy each game accordingly.
My only hope regarding this debate is that the devs don't feel influenced in either direction by the loud fans, that they take objective info from these debates and then apply the learned general desires/expectations within the parameters of their own creative direction and desires.

I'm an artist of a different kind to 343i and all their crew, but when the consumers try to control what the artists make, in my experience, it's usually detrimental to the final piece of art if the artists fold too much to control and don't apply their own creative and functional visions.

But I do have to (being a little nitpicky perhaps) argue the "normal human can do it," thing. I'm all for being more immersed as a player because the character is doing something that reflects realism, and I know you made that point sarcastically, but a normal human can't dual fire submachine guns or high calibre pistols. The amount of recoil would be madness to attempt normally, especially in an active warzone/firefight.
Especially accurately in a frenetic environment. Although obviously, you can argue that they're physically augmented supersoldiers and they're wearing power armour and thus would or could likely have the physical capability to do that.

Before I go off topic there, what I'm getting at is: You and I (representative of all the various Halo consumers out there) probably enjoy very different things with very different attitudes. How can 343i choose which of us to cater to? What is the best method to cater to one or both of us? A general approach that attempts to meet both kinds of debates in the middle?
I understand that we all enjoy different aspects to different degrees; it would just be nice to see all of us show a lot less animosity towards each other (and 343i) for what we personally prefer and what is being produced.
Now that they've ditched numbers, they could just have the games about Chief and co. have classic gameplay and the others have modern. In the mean time, for modern players, they could get rid of the reqs and give us some actually DECENT DLC for Halo 5. Simple! Or, they can have Spartan Abilities left as one-time us pickups. But I still don't think having multiple gameplay styles through their own playlists is the solution due to finite resources. And I get we the fans shouldn't control 343i, but at the same time I DO think they should listen to the fans if there's enough of them wanting something and plan a game for them accordingly.
i really dont understand why everyone loves the old mechanics... games need to freaking evolve...
What is "evolve" in this case? Going back to old mechanics doesn't sound like a problem, otherwise you'd have a problem with Halo 5 returning to equal starts.

Can I say that every Halo after 3 was devolving because Chief can't dual wield anymore? I mean, that's something a "normal human" can do.
I'm not disagreeing with you in general, in fact I'm fairly impartial to this whole debate. I enjoy Halo in general and each game has been fun, just like each game changes my expectation and style of playing it changes and I enjoy each game accordingly.
My only hope regarding this debate is that the devs don't feel influenced in either direction by the loud fans, that they take objective info from these debates and then apply the learned general desires/expectations within the parameters of their own creative direction and desires.

I'm an artist of a different kind to 343i and all their crew, but when the consumers try to control what the artists make, in my experience, it's usually detrimental to the final piece of art if the artists fold too much to control and don't apply their own creative and functional visions.

But I do have to (being a little nitpicky perhaps) argue the "normal human can do it," thing. I'm all for being more immersed as a player because the character is doing something that reflects realism, and I know you made that point sarcastically, but a normal human can't dual fire submachine guns or high calibre pistols. The amount of recoil would be madness to attempt normally, especially in an active warzone/firefight.
Especially accurately in a frenetic environment. Although obviously, you can argue that they're physically augmented supersoldiers and they're wearing power armour and thus would or could likely have the physical capability to do that.

Before I go off topic there, what I'm getting at is: You and I (representative of all the various Halo consumers out there) probably enjoy very different things with very different attitudes. How can 343i choose which of us to cater to? What is the best method to cater to one or both of us? A general approach that attempts to meet both kinds of debates in the middle?
I understand that we all enjoy different aspects to different degrees; it would just be nice to see all of us show a lot less animosity towards each other (and 343i) for what we personally prefer and what is being produced.
Now that they've ditched numbers, they could just have the games about Chief and co. have classic gameplay and the others have modern. In the mean time, for modern players, they could get rid of the reqs and give us some actually DECENT DLC for Halo 5. Simple! Or, they can have Spartan Abilities left as one-time us pickups. But I still don't think having multiple gameplay styles through their own playlists is the solution due to finite resources. And I get we the fans shouldn't control 343i, but at the same time I DO think they should listen to the fans if there's enough of them wanting something and plan a game for them accordingly.
Again, like my initial response in the quotes, not per se disagreeing.
But what do numbering games have to do with that? What do the characters or even plots of those games have to do with that? Isn't that up to the devs regarding their creative -and thus functional- vision?
I wholeheartedly agree regarding more involved DLC though. But I must think of the devs at work doing this and wonder if that would detract from their next full title in either quality, content, or production time.
Making the point about playlist separation (for me) always takes this discussion to a different place than what seems to be the average. The average seems to argue for or against it for this or that reason. (I see every for and against reason as valid - despite what the to and froing says - Because for that person it is valid and they are just as much a fan or consumer as anyone else, gosh the community needs to learn to respect one another more)
But I always wonder then, is this kind of discussion ever about the movement in the campaign gameplay or just multiplayer? I play multiplayer, but when I call myself a Halo fan I think of the campaign's story and the characters connected to it within the gameplay.
Isn't saying "I DO think they should listen to the fans if there's enough of them wanting something and plan a game for them accordingly." picking a side of the debate (presumably the side you agree with) and inferring something along the lines of, "because it's my side it's the majority/right side." That's more or less saying exactly (or attempting to) that the fans - but specific ones - should control 343i's creative direction.
Or at the very least, that's how that reads and translates. As far as I can see anyway, if I've misinterpreted you then my apologies. That's certainly not my intent.
The amount of Halo consumers on the forums at any time of any of their games release must represent only a small sliver of the entire consumer base. Of course, I don't have analytics of this, but this is judging by the smorgasbord of what I see active on the forums.
Just judging by that I'll roughly split the community online into three percentage based groups on this topic. 10% are relatively indifferent to this topic. 45% give-or-take are against modern movements and 45% give-or-take some are for it.
I can't help but wonder what percentage of the overall consumers' everyone on these forums makes up?
I'm not saying that disallows us a voice in potentially directing creative or practical input for Halo to any extent, but it should humble us as fans.
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