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This is just the tip of the iceberg

OP ran and shai

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Yesterday, 343i confirmed the community's fears that color customization will be replaced by a shader system that mimics Destiny 2. That confirmation comes after they let us fester in a sea of ambiguity not just regarding armor customization but regarding every single feature in the game. The removal of color customization is just the tip of the iceberg that is Halo Infinite.

The game was in development for five years, which is two years longer than most Halo games. These five years were completely, worryingly silent. Big statements were made after the game was revealed. "It's a soft reboot", they said. "It has a brand new, next gen engine" they said. Remarks were made that implied but did not confirm that this game is open world (a matter which they have not cleared up to this day). And then, silence.

Where are the days that 343i promised fans will help shape future titles? Where are the days 343i promised that every game of theirs will have a Beta test?

The gameplay demo is revealed in the Xbox Showcase and, big surprise, a big group of people don't like it. It's not just that the graphics felt several years old when we were expecting to see the next generation, it's that there was nothing truly spectacular about that demo. It kind of looked like Halo, a weirder, graphically unimpressive Halo, but nothing about the demo got the fans excited. Does that mean the game is a complete failure? Hell no. It still looked okay.

343i, you chose to show us a boring section of the game, and that was a mistake. Showing us gameplay was *not* a mistake. You should have shown us gameplay a long time ago. We should have had a Beta by now, and you know this. Instead we had bottled-up silence.

So people don't like the demo, and 343i retreat back into their silent state. Do you know what this looks like? It looks like even you don't believe in your game anymore. It looks like you think that whatever it is you have been doing for five years is an embarrassment not just to yourself and your fans but to the entire Xbox brand. Show some initiative, for God's sake! Show us the game you created. Yes, we'll judge it. Yes, if it's full of more bad decisions like these shaders, we will complain - because that's how it's got to be. A dialogue.

The less you show, the more concerned the fans get. The less you show, the more embarrassing the reveal will be in the end (let's not wait for a promotion to reveal your hand again, shall we?). You knew the fans wouldn't like that you removed the customizable colors, you even said as much in yesterday's update. So why did you keep it to yourself for so long? Why not release a video that explains exactly how customization works in Halo Infinite, the good and the bad? Now all we have is the bad, we don't know any of the good features you added to customization.

Stop waiting for the last possible moment. Stop making choices that you know most of the fandom won't appreciate. And, for the love of all things Halo, start communicating.

For your convenience, I'll add a list of the community's most pressing concerns. If anyone wants to add something to the list, leave a reply here.

1. What are we actually paying for? 60 dollars just for the campaign?
2. Is the Campaign open world or not? No ambiguous answers.
3. Elaborate on the meaning of Free to Play Halo multiplayer. Are we getting a similar offering to what we've seen before, or will it be completely different?
4. Microtransactions. We want to know exactly how you plan to monetize this Free to Play multiplayer.
5. What do you mean when you say Infinite is a platform that will last ten years? Please, answer without useless adjectives and just explain what it means.
6. Release a video that shows how customization works in Halo Infinite. Prove to us that, despite stripping away the most basic feature, we should still be excited about Infinite's armor customization.
7. Set a date for the Beta and flighting programs. Forget the release date.

Added per request:
8. Why is Halo now rated T? Is it no longer targeted at a mature audience?

Lastly, 343i, it's important that you'll understand we ALL want you to succeed. We all want to love Infinite. But we're not fools. We know there has been trouble in the game's development, that's painfully clear. Help us help you make this the game it needs to be. All we need from you is clarity and good will.

With love,
The Halo Community
Why did the main thread for this get locked AFTER countless other threads being locked and then referred to that thread?!
Why did the main thread for this get locked AFTER countless other threads being locked and then referred to that thread?!
Upon review, the mods decided that wasn't the best thread to be directing to, and we're now directing to https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/29568daf8cd14083bd1b70a810bf3581/topics/we-want-more-info-on-armor-coating/2f93be94-b416-4ee3-88b7-e963a7618194/posts for that conversation. Sorry about the hassle! For more info, read here.

Why did the main thread for this get locked AFTER countless other threads being locked and then referred to that thread?!
Sorry the thread was answered as to why it was locked, then redirected to another locked thread because previous thread was redirected to the original locked thread. now redirected thread has been unlocked....
I'm sorry you were browsing Waypoint for the 15 seconds or so that both threads were locked, that must have been wildly traumatizing for you to see.

If you have concerns over my actions henceforth, privately message me. Moderation decisions are not to be discussed publicly per the forum rules.
Why did the main thread for this get locked AFTER countless other threads being locked and then referred to that thread?!
Sorry the thread was answered as to why it was locked, then redirected to another locked thread because previous thread was redirected to the original locked thread. now redirected thread has been unlocked....
Now all we have is the bad, we don't know any of the good features you added to customization.
Its totally rad man, I need to go to gamestop during a certain time frame during covid-19 to get a paint scheme I can just make in halo reach.
[...]1. What are we actually paying for? 60 dollars just for the campaign?
2. Is the Campaign open world or not? No ambiguous answers.
3. Elaborate on the meaning of Free to Play Halo multiplayer. Are we getting a similar offering to what we've seen before, or will it be completely different?
4. Microtransactions. We want to know exactly how you plan to monetize this Free to Play multiplayer.
5. What do you mean when you say Infinite is a platform that will last ten years? Please, answer without useless adjectives and just explain what it means.
6. Release a video that shows how customization works in Halo Infinite. Prove to us that, despite stripping away the most basic feature, we should still be excited about Infinite's armor customization.
7. Set a date for the Beta and flighting programs. Forget the release date.

[...]
seems like a more or less well thought out thread and not just a random rant or something like that... and it more or less summons up my questions about the game

i just want to address one of the questions above, bc i think the question (and the story behind it) is a blinking red warning lamp for the game:

5. What do you mean when you say Infinite is a platform that will last ten years? Please, answer without useless adjectives and just explain what it means.
the 10 year lifespan promise is in general just a big lie. i can't think of any game, which kept the promise of a 10 year life span. not even destiny stuck to it, and i think it's the only game, more or less which MAY be living up to that. but they already changed their approach to it and the original promise won't be fullfilled.

another 10+ year game is WOW... and that game was designed to be a good game from the start and not "within the next 10 years".

to promise a 10 year life span at this point equals: "we don't have a good game yet, but we promise to maybe make it into a good game, if people keep spending money on it" (greetings from anthem)

i really get an anthem vibe from infinite and i think destiny is the only game still living on, bc it was the (more or less) first of it's kind. (the rest died before coming even close to the original 10 year lifespan promise)
Great post OP. A major concern of mine and many others is the sanitization of the violence in the franchise. Blood is nonexistent, bodies disappear after mere seconds post mortem, and the God forsaken Teen rating for Violence alone makes for a cheap attempt to capitalize on a younger audience who will play a Mature rated game regardless of who buys it. This only serves to further alienate long time fans from the revolutionary shooter we had years ago.
Very good post. I was slowly on and off making a similar post to drop but yours basically echo's mine and adds to it so now I dont have to. This is a very ice bucket of cold water splash type of explanation. There's no disrespect and it hits virtually every crucial point. I honestly dont understand 343's approach to marketing. Halo 4 was the only half decent marketed halo game 343 made and even it had a bunch of crucial things they KNEW the fans would hate hidden all the way up until months before the game would launch. Stuff like perks, wall hacks etc.

It feels like infinite is going the same route. They are jamming a bunch of nonsense into halo infinite they KNOW the most of us will hate and think that if they hide it long enough it somehow will be fine? They said they wouldnt go back into silent mode yet they did. The small crumbs of info we got since the delay arent much of anything. It doesnt make sense that 343 cant talk to us about multiplayer or other things. Its not as if the game is still in its conceptual stage. The game is playable. 343 admitted they have tons of internal playtests going on.

343 Knows more or less what they are doing with halo infinite on several levels and they could easily share these details with us but they are just being totally quiet about everything. The fact that we have to try to rubik's cube decode so many of their descriptions of things doesnt make sense. I dont know if this is because 343 is in some kind of internal echo chamber or what, but the fact that we dont even have a reason as to why theyre doing this just makes it worse. "were eager to share more info in the coming months" is basically all they ever say when they acknowledge that we want to hear from them about this game.

We want a DIALOGUE not a "we arent ready to share yet" after its been 5 years and the game was apparently set to launch this year. There has to be mountains of things they can divulge to us and they could easily drip feed us content each week in regards to things but the fact that they refuse to means only one of 2 things is true. Either this game is SEVERELY behind schedule and having some of the most disastrous development hell the AAA games industry has ever seen, OR 343 is just caught up in some kind of internal feedback loop that is making them believe everything will be fine if they just continue this vague and awkward strategy that is only causing more anxiety and unrest within the community.

We all just love halo tons and not having at least a clear cut dialogue on whats happening and why 343 is acting this way toward us is just making things frustrating.I cant tell you how many current and former halo fans I know that just have a constant bad taste in their mouth in regards to halo marketing under 343. Ive run out of things to tell them and run out of ways to defend why things keep getting salt induced when it comes to this stuff. Halo infinite is suppose to be some grand new start where 343 learns from all the mistakes they made and starts a new decade with a new engine and a renewed vision. But things are already as rocky as can be and we havent even fully seen the game yet.

I really hope this is all just the community jumping at shadows and that things will get better and infinite will be amazing. I really hope this is all just nothing and that halo will explode with goodness and the fanbase can actually grow again. I believe in 343 and that they can do good but this feeling that the dev studio itself is being mismanaged is just getting stronger and stronger. the constant miscommunication, feelings of disconnect with the fans and the say one thing then do another factor keeps happening over and over.

Please 343 all you have to do is at least be half transparent and it will go miles toward making the community less restless. Even if you make mistakes its way better to just rip the bandaid off then trying to hide it for months and months as if it wont explode with negativity later. Just talk to your fans please :(
At least what we saw wasn't fake or polished to be prettier than the actual game like every other E3 reveal.

What we saw is what we're getting. It was pretty straightforward as far as how the game will look and feel. Most devs would just make some amazing looking stuff only to downgrade the final product.
sniper945 wrote:
At least what we saw wasn't fake or polished to be prettier than the actual game like every other E3 reveal.
How do you know it wasn't?
For all we know, this is prettier than the final game is going to be...
I’d summarise everything by simply saying. They aren’t showing us enough, show us more or rather anything substantial.

It’s not about impatience, it’s about concern. At the end of the day, a lot of this stuff isn’t really that hard. I don’t see how intentionally letting frustrations fester is the better option. But I predict we most likely will see absolutely nothing for months. Should have had 3 or 4 decent reveals at this point but nope.
I’d summarise everything by simply saying. They aren’t showing us enough, show us more or rather anything substantial.

It’s not about impatience, it’s about concern. At the end of the day, a lot of this stuff isn’t really that hard. I don’t see how intentionally letting frustrations fester is the better option. But I predict we most likely will see absolutely nothing for months. Should have had 3 or 4 decent reveals at this point but nope.
Agreed. Though I'm personally more concerned that they haven't announced a Beta yet.

With the game delayed, I really don't see how any excuse justifies doubling back on their old promise that every game will be flighted or Beta tested by the community. Combined with this silence and the knowledge that the development of Infinite wasn't smooth (this being an understatement), people have very good reasons to be worried. The only way to dispell these worries is by showing us the game and reacting to our feedback.

That's why I believe they should forget the release date for now and make sure that there will be a Beta as soon as possible. It could still be months before that, though. In the meantime, we need clarity. We need to believe that 343i believes in their product, because it sure doesn't look like it now. It really does feel like they're hiding the game because they're afraid of our reaction, but at the end of the day they're going to have to show us the game and we will react (negatively or positively). It's better to do that early, so they can mitigate some of their errors (such as color customization) before the release.

The sooner they open a dialogue with the community, the more likely we are to love the game when it actually releases.
*chef’s kiss*

You’ve really hit the nail on the head there, great job!
It really sums up how I feel regarding everything, and how I was hoping others felt too, especially someone else whose been around for a while.

I don’t want to throw the book at 343 and MS too hard; I work for a large tourism firm that covers outlets from hotels, to cinemas, to ski fields, and know how hard it can be to keep everyone informed, especially in regards to what the public should and shouldn’t know, and when.

That being said, there had to be someone who’s job includes looking after the marketing plans for Infinite related promotions, and knew that these companies wouldn’t be able to just halt their schedules. Food has expiry dates, and they can’t just keep it off the shelves for up to a year.

What they should have done, is look at what information would be released due to it being out of their control, and work to release content ahead of time, so that we knew about it when it started popping up on the likes of cookies and energy drinks.

Surely they have a working build of the customisation UI by now, even if they have to label it pre-alpha and subject to change. They could have released a short ViDoc explaining the level of customisation, and how cool the Armour Coatings can look. Obviously there would still be a fair degree of negative backlash over the questionable choice, but they would be supplementing it with other aspects for the community to discus, like new areas of the Spartan that can be changed, glimpses of new and old armour pieces, etc.
You give us 10 seconds of footage, and we will eat that s**t up for days, weeks even!

Basically, they should stop playing defence; waiting for aspects of the game to be leaked via toys and promotions, and playing Damage Control after the fact.
And go in the offensive; find out what ‘stuff’ is going to make it’s way into the community, and release info explaining what’s going on, so that when it does appear, it’s a continuation of the hype, instead of leaving us worryingly confused.
I'm new to Halo and my first game was Halo: The Master Chief Collection on PC. I was never properly exposed to 343 making a poor choice and I felt I could trust them. Not to mention that they improved the customization on the more restricted titles like Halo 4. It's kind of noticable that it's not the same team working on Infinite. My rather violent, red and white-colored Spartan friend told me that 343 was learning from their mistakes and aimed to make Infinite an amazing and exciting return to glory. Revealing that the "Reach-style customization" was a LIE and that it will replaced by Destiny microtransactions and dice rolls just tossed it all away and slapped him in the face for giving them a chance and he has been around since HALO 2!

Personally, Halo 4 & 5 already resembles Destiny quite heavily with the overdesigned armor of the recent games. No offense to fans of Destiny, but I find it ugly and it's not Halo's proper art style. I was never a fan of Destiny and Destiny 2 and the way it handled.... anything really. The gameplay it's fine, but it's basically a rabbit hole straight to hell of dice rolls unless you just drop your entire savings into it just to get your favorite colors for your Spartan, Elite, or whatever. My Spartan in Reach is lavender and yellow. LAVENDER AND YELLOW. (It looks nicer than it sounds) I don't think there will even be an "armor coating" for that. And the stories are a weirdly similar type of flaky and disappointing.

I am heartbroken. My friend is heartbroken. We all care a great deal about this franchise, and I am still in the middle of engrossing myself in its beautiful world without having to worry about whether or not my Spartan will look the way I like.

Unless there is better news and no more lies I will probably not get Infinite like I had inititally planned. I was ready to preorder it and even buy cans of Monster for EXP. Monster tastes like sweat and I hate it.
All I'll say is this:

Years ago 343 very boldly revealed that their hiring practice had preference for people who disliked/unfamiliar with Halo. It seems to be something the community forgets about despite their whole trilogy, 4 to now, having glaringly 'non-Halo' initiatives in their design/features. I wrote this thought out at length in a past thread years ago, and no respect to 343 - but they simply don't seem to know *why* we loved Halo 1-3. They also seem compelled to 'make their own Halo' which constantly has us butting heads.

I'm not in a gamer rage or anything. It's just a bit exhausting at this point nearly a decade into the 343 era. I just don't know what's going on in that studio.
We demand truth 343, and respect.
No more prophets, no more lies.
Damn.

Truth be told, I was only going to buy the XBX to go enjoy Infinite at it's max capacity.

I see the infrequent release of info about this game, my interest declines inevitably. I see the open world concept, along with the F2P- now this I could have possibly dealt with. I see things I disliked in the gameplay reveal, amongst those the grapple shot (how could a 1,000lb spartan not rip a cliff or building off when he grapples to them, just straight nonsense) and now I won't be able to choose my own colors? Unbelievable.

Why would they make such terrible decisions? I don't see the "spiritual reboot" in this at all.
I've been holding on to being a gamer literally for this game, and after learning this I honestly don't want to play this game anymore.
I've never wanted to say " I remember when Halo was good" but here I am, an inch away from it.

Until this gets resolved I'm not going to buy this game and the console. I might even just stop following this game's news.

You just lost what, $600 dollars from me MS. I can imagine I'm not the only one who feels this way. I wonder if the casuals who'll pay for a "coating" during the gamepass then never play the game again will make up for it.
Yes, losing armour colours is a big deal. Yes, the demo shown didn't blow anyone away. But for me personally, the single most important thing we need to have an answer to right now, is this:
5. What do you mean when you say Infinite is a platform that will last ten years? Please, answer without useless adjectives and just explain what it means.
This is arguably the biggest departure from any Halo ever and I'd very much like to know what it means. Please don't be a game as a service. When I buy a Halo game, I want to get a Halo game: A campaign, so and so many missions long, and a multiplayer (and Forge etc obviously). Do you think this game's multiplayer will last ten years? Will none of the additions change it? What do you even plan to add? And what about mission structure? I feel like this game is in development hell.
AGREED. Especially number 7 and 8.

Also the last sentiment too: let's ALL make Halo the best it can be.
hxminid wrote:
[...]Truth be told, I was only going to buy the XBX to go enjoy Infinite at it's max capacity.

I see the infrequent release of info about this game, my interest declines inevitably. I see the open world concept, along with the F2P- now this I could have possibly dealt with. I see things I disliked in the gameplay reveal, amongst those the grapple shot (how could a 1,000lb spartan not rip a cliff or building off when he grapples to them, just straight nonsense) and now I won't be able to choose my own colors? Unbelievable.
[...]Until this gets resolved I'm not going to buy this game and the console. [...]You just lost what, $600 dollars from me MS. I can imagine I'm not the only one who feels this way. I wonder if the casuals who'll pay for a "coating" during the gamepass then never play the game again will make up for it.
I think you may be overreacting about the grapple a little. It may even only be a single player thing who knows. BUT, I agree about the new Xbox. I have no pressing need to buy it at launch now, for months even. The 'ol 6 year old Xbox One is doing me just as perfectly as back then.
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