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This will kill the game if it makes it to release.

OP ATH Sovereign

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I dont see this being discussed anywhere which is pretty concerning to me honestly as it seems like it could potentially make it into the game without even being looked at by the developers. Auto Aim, Bullet Magnetism, 'Controller Aimbot' NEED to be removed from PC entirely, controller or M&K.

Its time to put the way of using a controller and having a literal soft aimbot (in multiplayer) behind. In no way should people be put at a disadvantage using M&K compared to someone who gets a aimbot installed whenever they plug a controller in. If this remains in the game you can consider anything related to Competitive community and Esports dead.

Lets make one thing clear and something that shouldn't even be debatable, a controller should be used for casual play, NOT competitive play, the best players should not be forced to use a controller sacrificing the superior precision and responsiveness of Mouse and Keyboard. If you want to play the game Competitively you should be using technology that is standard to competitive games and any catering to controllers in the form of "Auto Aim" is a detriment to competitive integrity.

If you want Auto Aim on console sure, but turn crossplay off for this, making it optional is not enough at least for competitive playlists or anything ranked. After all, is it better to cater to the casuals or make a good competitive fps where the game doesn't aim for you? If you want a better understanding on how auto aim works and will probably work in Halo Infinite, check out the video in the TLDR below.

This thread may come off as bashing the game or controller users but I honestly believe this is crucial to the success of Halo on PC and I hope someone at 343 can give us more information regarding this.

TLDR: Watch this video and try to understand that this doesn't belong in a Competitive FPS like Halo: Infinite and it will be a grave mistake if anything even close to this makes it into the release of the game.
I dont see this being discussed anywhere which is pretty concerning to me honestly as it seems like it could potentially make it into the game without even being looked at by the developers. Auto Aim, Bullet Magnetism, 'Controller Aimbot' NEED to be removed from PC entirely, controller or M&K.

Its time to put the way of using a controller and having a literal soft aimbot (in multiplayer) behind. In no way should people be put at a disadvantage using M&K compared to someone who gets a aimbot installed whenever they plug a controller in. If this remains in the game you can consider anything related to Competitive community and Esports dead.

Lets make one thing clear and something that shouldn't even be debatable, a controller should be used for casual play, NOT competitive play, the best players should not be forced to use a controller sacrificing the superior precision and responsiveness of Mouse and Keyboard. If you want to play the game Competitively you should be using technology that is standard to competitive games and any catering to controllers in the form of "Auto Aim" is a detriment to competitive integrity. If you want Auto Aim on console sure, but turn crossplay off for this, making it optional is not enough at least for competitive playlists or anything ranked. After all, is it better to cater to the casuals or make a good competitive fps where the game doesn't aim for you? If you want a better understanding on how auto aim works and will probably work in Halo Infinite, check out the video in the TLDR below.

This thread may come off as bashing the game or controller users but I honestly believe this is crucial to the success of Halo on PC and I hope someone at 343 can give us more information regarding this.

TLDR: Watch this video and try to understand that this doesn't belong in a Competitive FPS like Halo: Infinite and it will be a grave mistake if anything even close to this makes it into the release of the game.
The funny thing here is a lot of controller players (especially those with consoles who - until soon according to Postums) have never had the choice to play M&K would also say the same about turning crossplay off because of the small minority of PC players who exploit the game. Halo isn't *just* a competitive FPS.

The real question I would have here is: where are you drawing the casual/competitive line? Between social and competitive playlists? Between Diamond and Onyx ranking in H5/above CSR 30 in MCC? or just in pro tournaments?

You yourself point out that "the superior precision and responsiveness of Mouse and Keyboard" is a thing: so how do you level that playing field? Players should be able to play the game in whatever way suits them or they are used to - we don't want to drive arbitrary wedges between sections of the community. Halo's been console-only or at least console first for a lot longer than it's been available on an equal footing with PC. Are you asking all console players who may have almost two decades of muscle memory to retrain themselves to play on M&K if they want to play competitive?

MCC already allows the option to turn off crossplay as a preference, I presume Infinite will too. You obviously have the potential negative consequence (especially in a smaller MM pool) of there not being sufficient player numbers on your input of choice, but hopefully Infinite won't suffer that for many many years. So... if you have crossplay and input-based matchmaking preferences available to you: why is that not enough?
I see no real problem with the current status quo if you don't like matching against kids with controllers turn off crossplay, or use input based matchmaking. With the controller vs M&K argument controller has advantage to a degree in regular combat, but give a M&K player a sniper... if they are in a lobby of controller players they will destroy the controller kids, same can be said in a game of Swat.
If this issue is only going to affect high level play, which it probably will, then it really won't "kill" the game at all.

There will be an option for input-based matchmaking for no-fun-allowed types like yourself, for the rest of us we'll just enjoy the game.
MorseyBaby wrote:
The real question I would have here is: where are you drawing the casual/competitive line? Between social and competitive playlists? Between Diamond and Onyx ranking in H5/above CSR 30 in MCC? or just in pro tournaments?

You yourself point out that "the superior precision and responsiveness of Mouse and Keyboard" is a thing: so how do you level that playing field? Players should be able to play the game in whatever way suits them or they are used to - we don't want to drive arbitrary wedges between sections of the community. Halo's been console-only or at least console first for a lot longer than it's been available on an equal footing with PC. Are you asking all console players who may have almost two decades of muscle memory to retrain themselves to play on M&K if they want to play competitive?
Why does there need to be a level playing field in a competitive environment? 343 would be the ones driving a wedge between the community by adding this to Infinite on PC. Even if you see it as just a single player game or a casual game, what does adding auto aim do besides lower the skill ceiling? Are 343 not skilled enough to make an FPS where it actually feels responsive and the game isnt aiming for you?

Players should be able to play however they want, and people shouldn't be forced to use an objectively inferior input device to compete just because "Halo was on console first".

As for where i draw the line? I suppose competitive playlists if anything. I dont know why controller users clutch their pearls at the thought of not having auto aim. All it does is lower the skill ceiling and make good plays/players indistinguishable because the game is LITERALLY AIMING FOR YOU. All I hear from that is "im bad at aiming and i want everyone to be the same skill level as me no matter how good they are".

Also here's a newsflash for console players, plugging in a M&K doesnt magically improve your aim. If someone is destroying you with the opposite input device, they worked harder to be good at the game than you did by having the game aim for you. This is really comparable to everyone getting a participation trophy, and people defending lazy game development.

If you have that mindset, you probably shouldnt be playing competitive games to begin with, go play campaign or firefight. And its exactly the reason the Halo 'esports' scene is dead at the moment. The 343 posts about their plans to build the esports community up gave me hope, but I guarantee it wont go anywhere when you have 100% of the pros using a controller for aim assist.
I don't follow esports outside of Halo so I'm not sure how it all works. How do other games handle controller/kbm in terms of comp like CoD for example?
I dont see this being discussed anywhere which is pretty concerning to me honestly as it seems like it could potentially make it into the game without even being looked at by the developers. Auto Aim, Bullet Magnetism, 'Controller Aimbot' NEED to be removed from PC entirely, controller or M&K.

Its time to put the way of using a controller and having a literal soft aimbot (in multiplayer) behind. In no way should people be put at a disadvantage using M&K compared to someone who gets a aimbot installed whenever they plug a controller in. If this remains in the game you can consider anything related to Competitive community and Esports dead.

Lets make one thing clear and something that shouldn't even be debatable, a controller should be used for casual play, NOT competitive play, the best players should not be forced to use a controller sacrificing the superior precision and responsiveness of Mouse and Keyboard. If you want to play the game Competitively you should be using technology that is standard to competitive games and any catering to controllers in the form of "Auto Aim" is a detriment to competitive integrity. If you want Auto Aim on console sure, but turn crossplay off for this, making it optional is not enough at least for competitive playlists or anything ranked. After all, is it better to cater to the casuals or make a good competitive fps where the game doesn't aim for you? If you want a better understanding on how auto aim works and will probably work in Halo Infinite, check out the video in the TLDR below.

This thread may come off as bashing the game or controller users but I honestly believe this is crucial to the success of Halo on PC and I hope someone at 343 can give us more information regarding this.

TLDR: Watch this video and try to understand that this doesn't belong in a Competitive FPS like Halo: Infinite and it will be a grave mistake if anything even close to this makes it into the release of the game.
Maybe its just me but I don’t really want Infinite to be a hyper-competitive sweatzone like Halo 5 was. Halo 5 was not enjoyable whatsoever casually.

But I also dont see the issue with some of the things you mentioned. Bullet magnetism was stupidly powerful in H5, yes. That is a fair thing to dislike.

But aim assist is just that... an assist. You will literally not be suffering if you forgo aim assist and I think a lot of PC players overstate it’s importance on the whole. Game sense, positioning and an understanding of game mechanics will always matter more than what your aiming sens is or if you’re KBM or controller.

Game should play the same regardless of what input you’re on.
Why does there need to be a level playing field in a competitive environment? 343 would be the ones driving a wedge between the community by adding this to Infinite on PC. Even if you see it as just a single player game or a casual game, what does adding auto aim do besides lower the skill ceiling? Are 343 not skilled enough to make an FPS where it actually feels responsive and the game isnt aiming for you?

Players should be able to play however they want, and people shouldn't be forced to use an objectively inferior input device to compete just because "Halo was on console first".

As for where i draw the line? I suppose competitive playlists if anything. I dont know why controller users clutch their pearls at the thought of not having auto aim. All it does is lower the skill ceiling and make good plays/players indistinguishable because the game is LITERALLY AIMING FOR YOU. All I hear from that is "im bad at aiming and i want everyone to be the same skill level as me no matter how good they are".

Also here's a newsflash for console players, plugging in a M&K doesnt magically improve your aim. If someone is destroying you with the opposite input device, they worked harder to be good at the game than you did by having the game aim for you. This is really comparable to everyone getting a participation trophy, and people defending lazy game development.

If you have that mindset, you probably shouldnt be playing competitive games to begin with, go play campaign or firefight. And its exactly the reason the Halo 'esports' scene is dead at the moment. The 343 posts about their plans to build the esports community up gave me hope, but I guarantee it wont go anywhere when you have 100% of the pros using a controller for aim assist.
Okay, let's pull out the point I agree with:
  1. "for console players, plugging in a M&K doesnt magically improve your aim" - Yes that's literally my point. You have a huge section of the community who have never had the option before. You can't exclude them overnight by requiring them to switch. If what you propose is the route to go down (and I'm not commenting either way here) then it has to be a gradual journey otherwise you'll just alienate players who have long histories with the franchise.
  2. "If someone is destroying you with the opposite input device, they worked harder to be good at the game than you did " Precisely. Yes, there are some controller-specific assists, but it's not like they're going to turn you into a pro overnight. At most it turns you from missing to hitting that crucial clutch headshot. It doesn't help you with map knowledge or traversal, communication, etc. Sure it means that in those 1-on-1 duel situations you might win more than 50/50, but how much of competitive Halo actually boils down to those duels vs coordination to give you the upper hand in engagements either numerically, weapon-wise, or ?
Next, the points I disagree with:
  1. "people shouldn't be forced to use an objectively inferior input device to compete just because "Halo was on console first" - nowhere am I suggesting that forcing anyone to use any kind of device is a good idea - I'm simply pointing out that the community has grown up with consoles and controllers - even now we're only just seeing console MCC get M&K support. My point wasn't 'Halo was on console first, so we win lulz', but that a lot of players have only been used to it with controllers. As I understand the strategy for Infinite (and seeing MCC as a testbed for it): everyone should be able to play on the device they want with the input they want. If you scale that strategy up to the competitive end the question then becomes how to do that fairly? Is it, as you suggest, removing any support for controllers which recognises that raw M&K vs raw controllers will be an unfair matchup? I'd argue no as all it's doing is forcing all pro players to use M&K and your whole point here seems to be that you don't like the idea that forcing pro players to use controller to be competitive is bad (which I agree with). Instead I'd argue it's about finding settings which achieve the right balance wherein there is no inherent skillgap between a M&K and controller player.
  2. "All I hear from that is "im bad at aiming and i want everyone to be the same skill level as me no matter how good they are"." - nowhere is anyone here saying that, but you have also explicitly said there's an inherent advantage to M&K before player skill even enters into it. Within MCC you have crossplay and input-based matchmaking preferences - I presume Infinite will too.
  3. "If you have that mindset, you probably shouldnt be playing competitive games to begin with, go play campaign or firefight. And its exactly the reason the Halo 'esports' scene is dead at the moment." - Woah now. that's a red flag right there. Nowhere should you, me, or anyone be telling people how or what they should be playing. How is anyone going to get into any form of competitive Halo with that kind of gatekeeping going on. You have to get people into Arena in the first place before you can expect them to last in the competitive lists. I'd be the first to admit that as a player the competitive playlists are absolutely not my natural home, but how do you expect me to improve without SBMM so i can play against people at and around my level?
  4. "Are 343 not skilled enough to make an FPS where it actually feels responsive and the game isnt aiming for you" - is it actually aiming for you? No, sure it's the equivalent of the target having a slightly bigger hitbox, but that's as far as it goes.
  5. "people defending lazy game development" - Err... hang on any form of assist for a controller is additional work. How is that lazy? Infinite will be the FIRST Halo FPS game developed in parallel for Console and PC at once. Every other experience you have to date (i.e. MCC) was designed for console and controller and has since been made available. Your entire argument sounds to me like rests on Infinite having exactly the same experience as MCC, which I find highly doubtful.
I completely understand and sympathise with your position, but for Infinite we simply do not have a full understanding of what is being done. If this conversation were in MCC I'd be saying 'let's talk parameters to reduce any supposed controller advantage', but for Infinite we don't know what's going on behind the scenes with the testers or pro teams. I am sure they'll be working on it. This type of tweaking, however, sounds like the type of thing we can look at once a competitive scene exists for the game. So yes, for MCC let's have the discussion, is what there is now right given input-based and platform-based matchmaking preferences? Or is work needed so that there's no inherent skill gap modifer based on input?
Feirsteax wrote:
If this issue is only going to affect high level play, which it probably will, then it really won't "kill" the game at all.

There will be an option for input-based matchmaking for no-fun-allowed types like yourself, for the rest of us we'll just enjoy the game.
Also can we just all stop with the “[minor problem] is going to DESTROY 343 AND NUKE CANADA” level nonsense that keeps being posted.

No, the colour of Master Chiefs coffee mug isnt going to ruin Infinite. We barely have anything to go on multiplayer or campaign wise and the gameplay reveal is an unfinished tease, not a set in stone showcase.

Halo isnt dead, it never died in the past few years and it wont die until the last of its servers are shut down, the game series is forgotten and Microsoft goes bankrupt
Feirsteax wrote:
If this issue is only going to affect high level play, which it probably will, then it really won't "kill" the game at all.

There will be an option for input-based matchmaking for no-fun-allowed types like yourself, for the rest of us we'll just enjoy the game.
Also can we just all stop with the “[minor problem] is going to DESTROY 343 AND NUKE CANADA” level nonsense that keeps being posted.

No, the colour of Master Chiefs coffee mug isnt going to ruin Infinite. We barely have anything to go on multiplayer or campaign wise and the gameplay reveal is an unfinished tease, not a set in stone showcase.

Halo isnt dead, it never died in the past few years and it wont die until the last of its servers are shut down, the game series is forgotten and Microsoft goes bankrupt
Ah yes, the famous anti-hype trains. We have so little info that the little info we do have will be twisted so many ways and any speculation has the opportunity to run rampant.
MorseyBaby wrote:
Why does there need to be a level playing field in a competitive environment? 343 would be the ones driving a wedge between the community by adding this to Infinite on PC. Even if you see it as just a single player game or a casual game, what does adding auto aim do besides lower the skill ceiling? Are 343 not skilled enough to make an FPS where it actually feels responsive and the game isnt aiming for you?

Players should be able to play however they want, and people shouldn't be forced to use an objectively inferior input device to compete just because "Halo was on console first".

As for where i draw the line? I suppose competitive playlists if anything. I dont know why controller users clutch their pearls at the thought of not having auto aim. All it does is lower the skill ceiling and make good plays/players indistinguishable because the game is LITERALLY AIMING FOR YOU. All I hear from that is "im bad at aiming and i want everyone to be the same skill level as me no matter how good they are".

Also here's a newsflash for console players, plugging in a M&K doesnt magically improve your aim. If someone is destroying you with the opposite input device, they worked harder to be good at the game than you did by having the game aim for you. This is really comparable to everyone getting a participation trophy, and people defending lazy game development.

If you have that mindset, you probably shouldnt be playing competitive games to begin with, go play campaign or firefight. And its exactly the reason the Halo 'esports' scene is dead at the moment. The 343 posts about their plans to build the esports community up gave me hope, but I guarantee it wont go anywhere when you have 100% of the pros using a controller for aim assist.
Okay, let's pull out the point I agree with:
  1. "for console players, plugging in a M&K doesnt magically improve your aim" - Yes that's literally my point. You have a huge section of the community who have never had the option before. You can't exclude them overnight by requiring them to switch. If what you propose is the route to go down (and I'm not commenting either way here) then it has to be a gradual journey otherwise you'll just alienate players who have long histories with the franchise.
  2. "If someone is destroying you with the opposite input device, they worked harder to be good at the game than you did " Precisely. Yes, there are some controller-specific assists, but it's not like they're going to turn you into a pro overnight. At most it turns you from missing to hitting that crucial clutch headshot. It doesn't help you with map knowledge or traversal, communication, etc. Sure it means that in those 1-on-1 duel situations you might win more than 50/50, but how much of competitive Halo actually boils down to those duels vs coordination to give you the upper hand in engagements either numerically, weapon-wise, or ?
Next, the points I disagree with:
  1. "people shouldn't be forced to use an objectively inferior input device to compete just because "Halo was on console first" - nowhere am I suggesting that forcing anyone to use any kind of device is a good idea - I'm simply pointing out that the community has grown up with consoles and controllers - even now we're only just seeing console MCC get M&K support. My point wasn't 'Halo was on console first, so go hang lulz', but that a lot of players have only been used to it with controllers. As I understand the strategy for Infinite (and seeing MCC as a testbed for it): everyone should be able to play on the device they want with the input they want. If you scale that strategy up to the competitive end the question then becomes how to do that fairly? Is it, as you suggest, removing any support for controllers which recognises that raw M&K vs raw controllers will be an unfair matchup? I'd argue no as all it's doing is forcing all pro players to use M&K and your whole point here seems to be that you don't like the idea that forcing pro players to use controller to be competitive is bad (which I agree with). Instead I'd argue it's about finding settings which achieve the right balance wherein there is no inherent skillgap between a M&K and controller player.
  2. "All I hear from that is "im bad at aiming and i want everyone to be the same skill level as me no matter how good they are"." - nowhere is anyone here saying that, but you have also explicitly said there's an inherent advantage to M&K before player skill even enters into it. Within MCC you have crossplay and input-based matchmaking preferences - I presume Infinite will too.
  3. "If you have that mindset, you probably shouldnt be playing competitive games to begin with, go play campaign or firefight. And its exactly the reason the Halo 'esports' scene is dead at the moment." - Woah now. that's a red flag right there. Nowhere should you, me, or anyone be telling people how or what they should be playing. How is anyone going to get into any form of competitive Halo with that kind of gatekeeping going on. You have to get people into Arena in the first place before you can expect them to last in the competitive lists. I'd be the first to admit that as a player the competitive playlists are absolutely not my natural home, but how do you expect me to improve without SBMM so i can play against people at and around my level?
  4. "Are 343 not skilled enough to make an FPS where it actually feels responsive and the game isnt aiming for you" - is it actually aiming for you? No, sure it's the equivalent of the target having a slightly bigger hitbox, but that's as far as it goes.
  5. "people defending lazy game development" - Err... hang on any form of assist for a controller is additional work. How is that lazy? Infinite will be the FIRST Halo FPS game developed in parallel for Console and PC at once. Every other experience you have to date (i.e. MCC) was designed for console and controller and has since been made available. Your entire argument sounds to me like rests on Infinite having exactly the same experience as MCC, which I find highly doubtful.
I completely understand and sympathise with your position, but for Infinite we simply do not have a full understanding of what is being done. If this conversation were in MCC I'd be saying 'let's talk parameters to reduce any supposed controller advantage', but for Infinite we don't know what's going on behind the scenes with the testers or pro teams. I am sure they'll be working on it. This type of tweaking, however, sounds like the type of thing we can look at once a competitive scene exists for the game. So yes, for MCC let's have the discussion, is what there is now right given input-based and platform-based matchmaking preferences? Or is work needed so that there's no inherent skill gap modifer based on input?
Extremely well put. OP is saying some stuff that just flat out does not make any sense and is dismissive at best.

Halo is a classic Console experience and even if the rest of the franchise is also on PC after Infinite, a large majority of players will be using a controller. Halo was one of the pioneers of console FPS experiences, and no matter what systems it will go on, it will always have a sizeable Xbox community that fondly enjoyed their time.

Also that “go to Campaign/Firefight” remark was absurd. Campaign and Firefight are both worthy gametypes you shouldnt be shamed for enjoying. Competitive Halo multiplayer is not the superior gametype. Casual slayer is the most played Halo gametype, not competitive.
MorseyBaby wrote:
Feirsteax wrote:
If this issue is only going to affect high level play, which it probably will, then it really won't "kill" the game at all.

There will be an option for input-based matchmaking for no-fun-allowed types like yourself, for the rest of us we'll just enjoy the game.
Also can we just all stop with the “[minor problem] is going to DESTROY 343 AND NUKE CANADA” level nonsense that keeps being posted.

No, the colour of Master Chiefs coffee mug isnt going to ruin Infinite. We barely have anything to go on multiplayer or campaign wise and the gameplay reveal is an unfinished tease, not a set in stone showcase.

Halo isnt dead, it never died in the past few years and it wont die until the last of its servers are shut down, the game series is forgotten and Microsoft goes bankrupt
Ah yes, the famous anti-hype trains. We have so little info that the little info we do have will be twisted so many ways and any speculation has the opportunity to run rampant.
I totally understand people being worried and cautiously about this next chapter for Halo but honestly whatever people are getting from a barely finished gameplay render tease, Im not getting. That tease only gives us the bare minimum mechanics wise.
You say mnk is superior, yet the gamepad is OP? lolwut

Halo's secret sauce lives in the OG controller-play (even if 343 hasn't found the perfect 1:1 re-creation in MCC, yet).

Instead of demanding everyone switch to your preferred input method after you got outplayed, perhaps you could work on your shot-calls and decision-making & learn from the experience. You want to cry "aim bot" but in reality MCC came out in 2013, on console- and the game itself is a compilation of the genre-defining, twin-stick Halo titles- that originally released on console.

If you're the m&ksuperioritycomplexdiehard you come across as.. you likely haven't played much Halo - compared to the veterans that run around in MCC - some of who have nearly 20 years (!) of experience; maybe there are some things about Halo's combat that you haven't mastered yet, but because you aren't able to just point-and-click on heads to win, and the matchmaking filters aren't good enough for you, 343 should abandon the playerbase that fundamentally allowed for their studio's existence..?

I never say this, but I really want to say git gud

Why does there need to be a level playing field in a competitive environment? 343 would be the ones driving a wedge between the community by adding this to Infinite on PC. Even if you see it as just a single player game or a casual game, what does adding auto aim do besides lower the skill ceiling? Are 343 not skilled enough to make an FPS where it actually feels responsive and the game isnt aiming for you?

Players should be able to play however they want, and people shouldn't be forced to use an objectively inferior input device to compete just because "Halo was on console first".

As for where i draw the line? I suppose competitive playlists if anything. I dont know why controller users clutch their pearls at the thought of not having auto aim. All it does is lower the skill ceiling and make good plays/players indistinguishable because the game is LITERALLY AIMING FOR YOU. All I hear from that is "im bad at aiming and i want everyone to be the same skill level as me no matter how good they are".

Also here's a newsflash for console players, plugging in a M&K doesnt magically improve your aim. If someone is destroying you with the opposite input device, they worked harder to be good at the game than you did by having the game aim for you. This is really comparable to everyone getting a participation trophy, and people defending lazy game development.

If you have that mindset, you probably shouldnt be playing competitive games to begin with, go play campaign or firefight. And its exactly the reason the Halo 'esports' scene is dead at the moment. The 343 posts about their plans to build the esports community up gave me hope, but I guarantee it wont go anywhere when you have 100% of the pros using a controller for aim assist.
MorseyBaby wrote:
The real question I would have here is: where are you drawing the casual/competitive line? Between social and competitive playlists? Between Diamond and Onyx ranking in H5/above CSR 30 in MCC? or just in pro tournaments?

You yourself point out that "the superior precision and responsiveness of Mouse and Keyboard" is a thing: so how do you level that playing field? Players should be able to play the game in whatever way suits them or they are used to - we don't want to drive arbitrary wedges between sections of the community. Halo's been console-only or at least console first for a lot longer than it's been available on an equal footing with PC. Are you asking all console players who may have almost two decades of muscle memory to retrain themselves to play on M&K if they want to play competitive?
Why does there need to be a level playing field in a competitive environment? 343 would be the ones driving a wedge between the community by adding this to Infinite on PC. Even if you see it as just a single player game or a casual game, what does adding auto aim do besides lower the skill ceiling? Are 343 not skilled enough to make an FPS where it actually feels responsive and the game isnt aiming for you?

Players should be able to play however they want, and people shouldn't be forced to use an objectively inferior input device to compete just because "Halo was on console first".

As for where i draw the line? I suppose competitive playlists if anything. I dont know why controller users clutch their pearls at the thought of not having auto aim. All it does is lower the skill ceiling and make good plays/players indistinguishable because the game is LITERALLY AIMING FOR YOU. All I hear from that is "im bad at aiming and i want everyone to be the same skill level as me no matter how good they are".

Also here's a newsflash for console players, plugging in a M&K doesnt magically improve your aim. If someone is destroying you with the opposite input device, they worked harder to be good at the game than you did by having the game aim for you. This is really comparable to everyone getting a participation trophy, and people defending lazy game development.

If you have that mindset, you probably shouldnt be playing competitive games to begin with, go play campaign or firefight. And its exactly the reason the Halo 'esports' scene is dead at the moment. The 343 posts about their plans to build the esports community up gave me hope, but I guarantee it wont go anywhere when you have 100% of the pros using a controller for aim assist.
You, and seemingly every PC user on the planet seems to overestimate how powerful aim assist actually is. Because no, its not that powerful and no it isnt free aiming or free kills. If you put zero effort into aiming, you will get zero kills, regardless of platform.

Aim Assist is not that powerful and it achieves nothing you couldnt match with KBM or otherwise. If the thought of a professional player using a controller bothers you this much you might just be acting a bit daft.
MorseyBaby wrote:
The real question I would have here is: where are you drawing the casual/competitive line? Between social and competitive playlists? Between Diamond and Onyx ranking in H5/above CSR 30 in MCC? or just in pro tournaments?

You yourself point out that "the superior precision and responsiveness of Mouse and Keyboard" is a thing: so how do you level that playing field? Players should be able to play the game in whatever way suits them or they are used to - we don't want to drive arbitrary wedges between sections of the community. Halo's been console-only or at least console first for a lot longer than it's been available on an equal footing with PC. Are you asking all console players who may have almost two decades of muscle memory to retrain themselves to play on M&K if they want to play competitive?
Why does there need to be a level playing field in a competitive environment? 343 would be the ones driving a wedge between the community by adding this to Infinite on PC. Even if you see it as just a single player game or a casual game, what does adding auto aim do besides lower the skill ceiling? Are 343 not skilled enough to make an FPS where it actually feels responsive and the game isnt aiming for you?

Players should be able to play however they want, and people shouldn't be forced to use an objectively inferior input device to compete just because "Halo was on console first".

As for where i draw the line? I suppose competitive playlists if anything. I dont know why controller users clutch their pearls at the thought of not having auto aim. All it does is lower the skill ceiling and make good plays/players indistinguishable because the game is LITERALLY AIMING FOR YOU. All I hear from that is "im bad at aiming and i want everyone to be the same skill level as me no matter how good they are".

Also here's a newsflash for console players, plugging in a M&K doesnt magically improve your aim. If someone is destroying you with the opposite input device, they worked harder to be good at the game than you did by having the game aim for you. This is really comparable to everyone getting a participation trophy, and people defending lazy game development.

If you have that mindset, you probably shouldnt be playing competitive games to begin with, go play campaign or firefight. And its exactly the reason the Halo 'esports' scene is dead at the moment. The 343 posts about their plans to build the esports community up gave me hope, but I guarantee it wont go anywhere when you have 100% of the pros using a controller for aim assist.
You, and seemingly every PC user on the planet seems to overestimate how powerful aim assist actually is. Because no, its not that powerful and no it isnt free aiming or free kills. If you put zero effort into aiming, you will get zero kills, regardless of platform.

Aim Assist is not that powerful and it achieves nothing you couldnt match with KBM or otherwise. If the thought of a professional player using a controller bothers you this much you might just be acting a bit daft.
I don't fully agree with this. Aim assist it a pretty powerful tool when over-tuned. In some halos (specifically reach) I think it is over tuned hence why bloom is such a major thing in reach (bungie never really liked decreasing assist systems so they tended to add things to counter them. You can see the same thing with ghost shots in Destiny). In halo it is pretty strong cause of the nature of the gun mechanics. Those mechanics, to me, dont play well with MKB. I do think there is a balance to be made between the don't and don't agree with forcing an input type on players. Creating search filters is a fine workaround given its opt-in or out. That being said, on a pro-level or event level, they should limit it to one or have separate groups for each input type.
MorseyBaby wrote:
The real question I would have here is: where are you drawing the casual/competitive line? Between social and competitive playlists? Between Diamond and Onyx ranking in H5/above CSR 30 in MCC? or just in pro tournaments?

You yourself point out that "the superior precision and responsiveness of Mouse and Keyboard" is a thing: so how do you level that playing field? Players should be able to play the game in whatever way suits them or they are used to - we don't want to drive arbitrary wedges between sections of the community. Halo's been console-only or at least console first for a lot longer than it's been available on an equal footing with PC. Are you asking all console players who may have almost two decades of muscle memory to retrain themselves to play on M&K if they want to play competitive?
Why does there need to be a level playing field in a competitive environment? 343 would be the ones driving a wedge between the community by adding this to Infinite on PC. Even if you see it as just a single player game or a casual game, what does adding auto aim do besides lower the skill ceiling? Are 343 not skilled enough to make an FPS where it actually feels responsive and the game isnt aiming for you?

Players should be able to play however they want, and people shouldn't be forced to use an objectively inferior input device to compete just because "Halo was on console first".

As for where i draw the line? I suppose competitive playlists if anything. I dont know why controller users clutch their pearls at the thought of not having auto aim. All it does is lower the skill ceiling and make good plays/players indistinguishable because the game is LITERALLY AIMING FOR YOU. All I hear from that is "im bad at aiming and i want everyone to be the same skill level as me no matter how good they are".

Also here's a newsflash for console players, plugging in a M&K doesnt magically improve your aim. If someone is destroying you with the opposite input device, they worked harder to be good at the game than you did by having the game aim for you. This is really comparable to everyone getting a participation trophy, and people defending lazy game development.

If you have that mindset, you probably shouldnt be playing competitive games to begin with, go play campaign or firefight. And its exactly the reason the Halo 'esports' scene is dead at the moment. The 343 posts about their plans to build the esports community up gave me hope, but I guarantee it wont go anywhere when you have 100% of the pros using a controller for aim assist.
You, and seemingly every PC user on the planet seems to overestimate how powerful aim assist actually is. Because no, its not that powerful and no it isnt free aiming or free kills. If you put zero effort into aiming, you will get zero kills, regardless of platform.

Aim Assist is not that powerful and it achieves nothing you couldnt match with KBM or otherwise. If the thought of a professional player using a controller bothers you this much you might just be acting a bit daft.
I don't fully agree with this. Aim assist it a pretty powerful tool when over-tuned. In some halos (specifically reach) I think it is over tuned hence why bloom is such a major thing in reach (bungie never really liked decreasing assist systems so they tended to add things to counter them. You can see the same thing with ghost shots in Destiny). In halo it is pretty strong cause of the nature of the gun mechanics. Those mechanics, to me, dont play well with MKB. I do think there is a balance to be made between the don't and don't agree with forcing an input type on players. Creating search filters is a fine workaround given its opt-in or out. That being said, on a pro-level or event level, they should limit it to one or have separate groups for each input type.
Even the strongest aim assist in Halo is milquetoast garbage that just does not score kills. Halo 5 is a glaring exception though because of the Bullet Magnetism being so high.

PC players dont have a disadvantage against it if they understand how Halo plays. Mechanical skill will always triumph over an artificial advantage (one which honestly hasnt effected me all that much).
Thx for the post OP. I use a Procontroller and I hate auto-aim/aim-asssist! Input based match making for "Focused" selection is what i advocate for. "Expanded" for those who don't care. No competitive or ranked for controller is just silly though.
MorseyBaby wrote:
The real question I would have here is: where are you drawing the casual/competitive line? Between social and competitive playlists? Between Diamond and Onyx ranking in H5/above CSR 30 in MCC? or just in pro tournaments?

You yourself point out that "the superior precision and responsiveness of Mouse and Keyboard" is a thing: so how do you level that playing field? Players should be able to play the game in whatever way suits them or they are used to - we don't want to drive arbitrary wedges between sections of the community. Halo's been console-only or at least console first for a lot longer than it's been available on an equal footing with PC. Are you asking all console players who may have almost two decades of muscle memory to retrain themselves to play on M&K if they want to play competitive?
Why does there need to be a level playing field in a competitive environment? 343 would be the ones driving a wedge between the community by adding this to Infinite on PC. Even if you see it as just a single player game or a casual game, what does adding auto aim do besides lower the skill ceiling? Are 343 not skilled enough to make an FPS where it actually feels responsive and the game isnt aiming for you?

Players should be able to play however they want, and people shouldn't be forced to use an objectively inferior input device to compete just because "Halo was on console first".

As for where i draw the line? I suppose competitive playlists if anything. I dont know why controller users clutch their pearls at the thought of not having auto aim. All it does is lower the skill ceiling and make good plays/players indistinguishable because the game is LITERALLY AIMING FOR YOU. All I hear from that is "im bad at aiming and i want everyone to be the same skill level as me no matter how good they are".

Also here's a newsflash for console players, plugging in a M&K doesnt magically improve your aim. If someone is destroying you with the opposite input device, they worked harder to be good at the game than you did by having the game aim for you. This is really comparable to everyone getting a participation trophy, and people defending lazy game development.

If you have that mindset, you probably shouldnt be playing competitive games to begin with, go play campaign or firefight. And its exactly the reason the Halo 'esports' scene is dead at the moment. The 343 posts about their plans to build the esports community up gave me hope, but I guarantee it wont go anywhere when you have 100% of the pros using a controller for aim assist.
You, and seemingly every PC user on the planet seems to overestimate how powerful aim assist actually is. Because no, its not that powerful and no it isnt free aiming or free kills. If you put zero effort into aiming, you will get zero kills, regardless of platform.

Aim Assist is not that powerful and it achieves nothing you couldnt match with KBM or otherwise. If the thought of a professional player using a controller bothers you this much you might just be acting a bit daft.
I don't fully agree with this. Aim assist it a pretty powerful tool when over-tuned. In some halos (specifically reach) I think it is over tuned hence why bloom is such a major thing in reach (bungie never really liked decreasing assist systems so they tended to add things to counter them. You can see the same thing with ghost shots in Destiny). In halo it is pretty strong cause of the nature of the gun mechanics. Those mechanics, to me, dont play well with MKB. I do think there is a balance to be made between the don't and don't agree with forcing an input type on players. Creating search filters is a fine workaround given its opt-in or out. That being said, on a pro-level or event level, they should limit it to one or have separate groups for each input type.
Even the strongest aim assist in Halo is milquetoast garbage that just does not score kills. Halo 5 is a glaring exception though because of the Bullet Magnetism being so high.

PC players dont have a disadvantage against it if they understand how Halo plays. Mechanical skill will always triumph over an artificial advantage (one which honestly hasnt effected me all that much).
You're not wrong but if your playing a competition for money, id rather the race be at equal footing instead of someone having roller blades. Hence why I said the seperation should only be for event or pro-level competitions. Not normal play
MorseyBaby wrote:
The real question I would have here is: where are you drawing the casual/competitive line? Between social and competitive playlists? Between Diamond and Onyx ranking in H5/above CSR 30 in MCC? or just in pro tournaments?

You yourself point out that "the superior precision and responsiveness of Mouse and Keyboard" is a thing: so how do you level that playing field? Players should be able to play the game in whatever way suits them or they are used to - we don't want to drive arbitrary wedges between sections of the community. Halo's been console-only or at least console first for a lot longer than it's been available on an equal footing with PC. Are you asking all console players who may have almost two decades of muscle memory to retrain themselves to play on M&K if they want to play competitive?
Why does there need to be a level playing field in a competitive environment? 343 would be the ones driving a wedge between the community by adding this to Infinite on PC. Even if you see it as just a single player game or a casual game, what does adding auto aim do besides lower the skill ceiling? Are 343 not skilled enough to make an FPS where it actually feels responsive and the game isnt aiming for you?

Players should be able to play however they want, and people shouldn't be forced to use an objectively inferior input device to compete just because "Halo was on console first".

As for where i draw the line? I suppose competitive playlists if anything. I dont know why controller users clutch their pearls at the thought of not having auto aim. All it does is lower the skill ceiling and make good plays/players indistinguishable because the game is LITERALLY AIMING FOR YOU. All I hear from that is "im bad at aiming and i want everyone to be the same skill level as me no matter how good they are".

Also here's a newsflash for console players, plugging in a M&K doesnt magically improve your aim. If someone is destroying you with the opposite input device, they worked harder to be good at the game than you did by having the game aim for you. This is really comparable to everyone getting a participation trophy, and people defending lazy game development.

If you have that mindset, you probably shouldnt be playing competitive games to begin with, go play campaign or firefight. And its exactly the reason the Halo 'esports' scene is dead at the moment. The 343 posts about their plans to build the esports community up gave me hope, but I guarantee it wont go anywhere when you have 100% of the pros using a controller for aim assist.
You, and seemingly every PC user on the planet seems to overestimate how powerful aim assist actually is. Because no, its not that powerful and no it isnt free aiming or free kills. If you put zero effort into aiming, you will get zero kills, regardless of platform.

Aim Assist is not that powerful and it achieves nothing you couldnt match with KBM or otherwise. If the thought of a professional player using a controller bothers you this much you might just be acting a bit daft.
To add to that, I would say removing aim assist makes it nearly impossible for a controller player to actually land shots unless they are really good. Using a real example with Sea of Thieves, that game has no aim assist for controllers. It is impossible to land a shot on anyone unless both are standing still while the PC players can run circles around you. Aim assist simply closes the gap since controllers don't have that precise point and click.

Not only that, but OP's thread sounds like sacking the game in the name of competitive Esports and the like. How about not. Let's have a fun game and not one designed to create nothing but sweaty tournaments.
superior precision and responsiveness of Mouse and Keyboard.
Evidently not, if people feel compelled to pick up a controller.
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