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Traditional Halo Dies With Infinite

OP munkeemeaty

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Just to preface this the title is not what I want to happen, but what I predict will happen. It is clear to see that infinite is meant to appeal to children. Infinite follows trends from other shooters instead of being traditional Halo, and now that the MP is free to play and has weapon skins, there is no doubt that Microsoft is trying to make Halo the next big shooter (not that theres anything wrong with that, they are a business). My point with all this is that if Infinite flops, Halo is kinda dead outside of MCC, and if it succeeds then Microsoft will continue to pursue making Halo another modern shooter. Hope this doesn't get locked cause 343 hates criticism about Halo, crippling discussion.
Traditional Halo died or changed forever with Halo Reach. I'm not saying 343i's games are ok, but Halo Reach started the change imo.
eviltedi wrote:
Traditional Halo died or changed forever with Halo Reach. I'm not saying 343i's games are ok, but Halo Reach started the change imo.
That is because games have to evolve at a certain point.
There is no reason to use a reskinned halo 3 for several games. Besides if a different company takes over the original 'dna' will be gone aswell since they want to put their own 'vision' to a game. H4 and h5 have the worst art style in halo's history. Reach did start advanced movement options but i always liked that bungie went that way.(except armor lock)
It's not so much about changing the game a lot like reach did, it's how the newer games copy and paste everything from popular shooters, they can still be fun, but there will never be another halo 1-3 again. I am still desperately looking for another halo 1-3 to happen again, but it never will. I just miss when video games used to be all about fun, instead of trying to squeezing every dollar out a customer.
eviltedi wrote:
Traditional Halo died or changed forever with Halo Reach. I'm not saying 343i's games are ok, but Halo Reach started the change imo.
Reach definitely did start the change but Halo 4 & 5 took them way too far.
Traditional Halo will never die so long as they keep the MCC servers alive. I'm hoping we don't need to re-buy it for SeriesX.
I'm a classic-first Halo fan, so I totally understand the nostalgia for the good 'ol days. Roundly, my favorite game in the series is Halo 3. Which brings me to a point that many times gets very much overlooked when talking about classic vs new Halo: Classic Halo wasn't a single game- it was comprised of three substantively different games. CE is not Halo 2 is not Halo 3- there are overarching similarities, and these titles feel more accordant with each other as more, newer Halo games are released and put them farther in the rearview, but they are certainly different games from each other. It's a point that some folks harp on a bit too hard around here, but it is totally true that games must evolve to improve. If CE attained perfection, than all of the changes and additions in Halo 2 only sullied that perfection. Ipso facto for Halo 3's changes to Halo 2's mechanics, narrative, etc.

I remember a time when Halo 3 was pretty controversial on many grounds. People were angry with how it resolved the narrative, how it modernized (and heavily saturated) the art style, and how its multiplayer suite was more broadly accessible to "kids and casuals" than H2's had been. I had a good friend growing up who hated Halo 3 for all of these reasons, and I know he wasn't alone. My point is, though, that despite their differences from each other, most of us have come around to accept and love all of the classic trilogy games for what they are. They're different from each other, but the evolution from game to game feels pretty organic for the most part, and just because something is more accessible to casuals/normies/kids/insert whatever else derogatory category here, doesn't mean it's inherently worse.

I understand concerns that Halo will attempt to capitalize on the craze of BR shooters like Fortnite and Apex- I share the concerns, in fact. But I don't think it's the only path forward for the series, either. I think something that feels like more of a natural evolution from the "classics" (Pre Halo 4-5, which both feel like a separate evolutionary line to me) can appeal on a massive level, critically and commercially.

Halo CE is gone- Halo 2 is gone- Halo 3 is gone (and they're not, all being remarkably well preserved and supported in MCC), but each one of these games already "killed" its predecessors when originally released, too. People were overly critical and reactionary to them when they first came out, but over time we've accepted and largely come to love the differences. Halo Infinite can be different and amazing (like Halo 2 and 3 were), if it feels like it's a logical/interesting progression from the sandbox, narrative, art, etc. elements that defined Halo before it. I think us older and more cynical fans owe it at least a fair shake with this in mind. Whatever it will be, it's very clear it's ditching a lot of the DNA of the Reclaimer Saga, so it doesn't seem fair to lob most of that baggage directly onto it.
Just to preface this the title is not what I want to happen, but what I predict will happen. It is clear to see that infinite is meant to appeal to children. Infinite follows trends from other shooters instead of being traditional Halo, and now that the MP is free to play and has weapon skins, there is no doubt that Microsoft is trying to make Halo the next big shooter (not that theres anything wrong with that, they are a business). My point with all this is that if Infinite flops, Halo is kinda dead outside of MCC, and if it succeeds then Microsoft will continue to pursue making Halo another modern shooter. Hope this doesn't get locked cause 343 hates criticism about Halo, crippling discussion.
They're going full on Fortnite with this one. As much as I've absolutely loved Halo since Halo CE I think it's just time for me to accept that Halo is no longer for me.

After what I saw at the next gen games showcase and everything that's happened after, it's just very clear to me that Halo Infinite is a real mess. They would have to show me something amazing at this point to get me interested again.

It's too bad but it's not the first time Microsoft has taken something great and run it into the ground.
See Above
I agree with most of what you said here. While I personally think 343 has gone a little too far to throwback to classic style Halo, not to mention they got MCC, I guess we just gotta wait and see where infinite goes.
MysticKami wrote:
Traditional Halo will never die so long as they keep the MCC servers alive. I'm hoping we don't need to re-buy it for SeriesX.
Can definitely say you won't have to do that.
eviltedi wrote:
Traditional Halo died or changed forever with Halo Reach. I'm not saying 343i's games are ok, but Halo Reach started the change imo.
That is because games have to evolve at a certain point.
There is no reason to use a reskinned halo 3 for several games. Besides if a different company takes over the original 'dna' will be gone aswell since they want to put their own 'vision' to a game. H4 and h5 have the worst art style in halo's history. Reach did start advanced movement options but i always liked that bungie went that way.(except armor lock)
What is a reskin? Is Madden a reskin? Is NBA 2K a reskin? Is Call of Duty a reskin? You could say yes to all three, and they are the biggest games in the industry. Fans don't seem to mind getting the game it wants every year.

Then there's Halo, that leaves a successful formula to chase trends and fracture the fanbase every release. Halo only makes headlines because of its history. It's not really a system seller anymore. A lot of us here don't even know what it is anymore. I would take a reskin of Halo 3 over the mess created by a mediocre modern vision.
Wait until the multiplayer reveal, we don’t know enough yet.
I'm really not all that upset about it. I've been playing since CEs release. I like that halo evolves over time. H5 was really the only halo game that I can honestly say I disliked. All the others were fine. With Infinite, it's just another evolution.

Personally, I hope 343 does what LucasArts did in the early 2000s. Allow other devs to come to 343 with Halo game ideas and, once approved, work closely with the lore team to create more unique halo games.
eviltedi wrote:
Traditional Halo died or changed forever with Halo Reach. I'm not saying 343i's games are ok, but Halo Reach started the change imo.
I agree 100% with this statement.
Honestly I'm cautiously optimistic.

I really dislike Halo 5 and I would go as far as to say I hate 343i's art style. Halo 5 is also the only Halo I have ever returned to the store. As a classic Halo fan I am actually very pleased with the armor designs they have thus-far presented for Infinite, and I'm willing to give the game a chance since a bunch of Bungie big-wigs have come back to the series to help Infinite be all it can be.

If by "appealing to children" you mean the lack of blood decals, I'm pretty sure they just excluded them in that build so they didn't have to shoot one trailer for the west and one for China. I saw a lot of people complaining about this but honestly I'm 100% sure the blood decals will be in at launch in the West so I'm not sure what the big deal is. It's not uncommon to shoot trailers this way in this day and age.

I also think that they didn't have time to "pretty up" a vertical slice of the game due to being behind on development. Many companies make specific trailer builds meant to look as pretty as possible and that judging the game based on a likely months-old build is pretty foolish. We'll have to wait to see more from 343i before making any conclusions. Don't forget that in the build of Halo CE literally three months before release they didn't even have finished lightmaps, yet we're judging a game for poor lighting that's even further behind in development.
eviltedi wrote:
Traditional Halo died or changed forever with Halo Reach. I'm not saying 343i's games are ok, but Halo Reach started the change imo.
That is because games have to evolve at a certain point.
There is no reason to use a reskinned halo 3 for several games. Besides if a different company takes over the original 'dna' will be gone aswell since they want to put their own 'vision' to a game. H4 and h5 have the worst art style in halo's history. Reach did start advanced movement options but i always liked that bungie went that way.(except armor lock)
I didn't say games don't have to evolve, I also didn't say there is a reason or a need for a reskinned Halo 3 either. In fact anyone that's on this forum regularly will know I like advanced movement. I just hate when it's stated that H4, H5 or Infinite killed traditional Halo, so I pointed to the OP that it was killed or at least changed forever with Reach imo.
eviltedi wrote:
Traditional Halo died or changed forever with Halo Reach. I'm not saying 343i's games are ok, but Halo Reach started the change imo.
I agree with you but when reach made the AAs as pick up items (MLG playlist) and got ride of bloom, it really felt more like Halo. If Reach had a real ranking system like say Halo 3 or 5, and AAs were map pick up items from the get-go, I think reach would have done a lot better and Halo would have been better off for it.
eviltedi wrote:
Traditional Halo died or changed forever with Halo Reach. I'm not saying 343i's games are ok, but Halo Reach started the change imo.
That is because games have to evolve at a certain point.
There is no reason to use a reskinned halo 3 for several games. Besides if a different company takes over the original 'dna' will be gone aswell since they want to put their own 'vision' to a game. H4 and h5 have the worst art style in halo's history. Reach did start advanced movement options but i always liked that bungie went that way.(except armor lock)
The majority of people that don't like advanced movement because I'm pretty sure that's what you're referring too, do not want a reskin of Halo 3. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand. Games can evolve without adding in a bunch of mechanics that other games use. I guess Halo should just turn into a hero FPS and we all have different characters with powers and abilities then as those FPS games seem to be doing well.

No, Halo just needed to have the "gun always up" approach like the older ones did and it would play and feel so much like Halo. You could have thrusters in, You could have a double jump, You could have jumping off walls, You could have equipment as map pick up items that drastically change something your character does and so forth. They have piles of options and yet they continue to just use mechanics that other games do and put in what's big and popular in hopes that it works in Halo.... Which by doing so, changes the way how Halo plays massively and alienating all those fans that like that style of play. Then it just plays like every other game on the market. Whoopi!!

So if I'm a call of duty or battlefield player or whatever, why do I want to go play Halo when it offers nothing different at all??? Oh right, there is no reason too... Hence one of the reasons why Halo has fallen so far from Grace. Meanwhile games like Overwatch have done incredibly well and has sustained huge fan bases because they offered something different, Like what Halo used to and it's fun of course. Now this Valorant game seems poised to take the PC gaming world (And possibly consoles) by storm! What's one of the reasons, because it doesn't play like every single FPS out there, and again, it's fun.

I'll call it right now. Halo infinite will do decent in sales and be decent popularity wise for a bit and then it will just free fall and be basically forgotten unless they do something mind-blowingly awesome in the multiplayer and yes that could be making it play more like original Halo.

Halo needs to go back to more along the style of how it used to play. Funny how the latest call of duty went back to a style more like the original cod games and it's consider by many to the best call of duty ever! That is fact too, not opinion. Just look around forms and whatnot. I don't know how much more information Microsoft/343 need to do this with Halo I just don't get it. Like I said their mentality for a Halo game should be your gun is up all the time no matter what you're doing. Just like The originals.

I hope Halo infinite does amazing as I love Halo and I have been playing since the first one but I don't see how it's going to in its current state unfortunately. The way Halo has gone the last while and appears Halo infinite is going the same way, I think 343 literally don't care about the older fan base in my opinion... they have done very little to try and bridge the gap between old and new fans. They seem to want older fans just to stick to the MCC and that's it. Apparently we don't deserve a new Halo game. I'm not hating on 343 and it's not an easy thing to do I acknowledge this but facts kind of speak for themselves.

Unfortunately like ScaredySquirrel said, I think people like me and the majority of my friends have to just accept the fact that the Halo we know and love just doesn't exist anymore and it's time to move on to something else which the majority of my friends already have and I'm basically the last one. It's all pretty sad...
I don't think that this is true at all. From the little gameplay we've seen, Infinite looks closer to a true Halo 3 sequel when it comes to gameplay than anything we've gotten thus far. And obviously the art style is heavily inspired by 3 and CE. I don't love sprint, but from what we've seen so far I'm fine with its implementation. The new weapons look good and the return of equipment blows Armor Abilities out of the water. This game screams "traditional Halo"
eviltedi wrote:
Traditional Halo died or changed forever with Halo Reach. I'm not saying 343i's games are ok, but Halo Reach started the change imo.
That is because games have to evolve at a certain point.
There is no reason to use a reskinned halo 3 for several games. Besides if a different company takes over the original 'dna' will be gone aswell since they want to put their own 'vision' to a game. H4 and h5 have the worst art style in halo's history. Reach did start advanced movement options but i always liked that bungie went that way.(except armor lock)
Changing a game to play like it's competition is not evolution. This word needs to stop being thrown around because it means nothing, it's a buzzword. There is no evolution in games, just new designers that get added to teams with new ideas.

Actual "evolution" should not lead to the stagnation of an entire game market, which is what we have right now in terms of FPS. If there was evolution in games, then each game would play different and cater to specific styles and design philosophy, creating a robust market, where several titles compete for niche demos in a larger market. Not everyone loves playing the same game all the time, and having Halo play exactly like CoD and Titanfall and Destiny and all the other FPS's is a detriment to the franchise, and the entire FPS market. That isn't just for Halo, this is a problem across the entire FPS market.

Edit: One can argue the little details of each game that makes them slightly different, it really doesn't matter. Ord drops, Killstreaks, Supers, it's all the same with slight differences. The overall design of all these games are " Sprint, Stop, Aim, Shoot, Use Time/Kills/Points to get a Power Boost. Rinse/ Repeat" ad nauseam.
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