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We want more info on "armor coating".

OP Zakspeeeed

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Halo 5 currently has 3600 possible color combinations.
Cool.

It would still be fascinating to know how many of those combinations are in active rotation.
Customization was bad enough in 5 with the loot boxes. Now with talk of free to play, "live service", and what is basically Destiny 2 shaders, things are not giving me much hope. And this whole line companies trout out of "you can earn things in game" is a crock ad we all know it. There is a difference between accomplishing a task to unlock something, like beating the game on legendary or killing 10,000 grunts to get a special helmet, and just grinding through hours and hours of multiplayer to pile up your measly in game credits to buy something. One feels like a reward, the other feels like a job. If 343 thinks I'm going to grind for hours to get a color scheme for my avatar, they have truly lost the plot.
Darwi wrote:
I'm genuinely intrigued here. I had no idea people got so passionate about their colours. I pretty much set and forgot my Halo 5 ones on day one (my footy team's colours). I honestly couldn't tell you what colours I used in previous games. I remember being bright green at one stage. Oh, and purple... a very fearsome shade of lilac!

But I imagine there are only so many colour combinations in use. So it shouldn't be too hard to provide the core offerings.

Some shades, such as Cadbury's purple, may end up (temporarily?) in a paid promotion... but I'm sure there will be similar shades offered up in the free / grindable palette.

Seeing as I have no attachment to my Spartan's colours I am looking forward to what the new system offers up...
Yeah I'm in a very similar boat. I had no idea people got so attached to their colors. It makes sense I suppose, humans can get attached to just about anything if they spend enough time with it.

I think the reason I haven't thought about it much is I despise FFA, infection, and custom games so 99% I'm usually Red/Blue. But I'm not big on customization in any games... I wonder why that is...

Darwi wrote:
I run the darkest green and red. I've been called the Christmas Spartan before, and I'm not keen on giving that up. It's special to me, and I doubt they'll include a satisfying pattern with that pallet. I'm also one of those people who constantly messes with my customization between matches, but green and red is my go to.
Many video games (and especially live service style games) run holiday events. I would go so far as to guarantee you there would be some Christmas themed skins/coatings available in HI. If 343 didn't do that, it would be a huge missed opportunity for them.

Even with armor coatings I imagine your Christmas Spartan can battle once more, though admittedly you may have to wait for the holiday season to roll around.
Darwi wrote:
I'm genuinely intrigued here. I had no idea people got so passionate about their colours. I pretty much set and forgot my Halo 5 ones on day one (my footy team's colours). I honestly couldn't tell you what colours I used in previous games. I remember being bright green at one stage. Oh, and purple... a very fearsome shade of lilac!

But I imagine there are only so many colour combinations in use. So it shouldn't be too hard to provide the core offerings.

Some shades, such as Cadbury's purple, may end up (temporarily?) in a paid promotion... but I'm sure there will be similar shades offered up in the free / grindable palette.

Seeing as I have no attachment to my Spartan's colours I am looking forward to what the new system offers up...
Yeah I'm in a very similar boat. I had no idea people got so attached to their colors. It makes sense I suppose, humans can get attached to just about anything if they spend enough time with it.

I think the reason I haven't thought about it much is I despise FFA, infection, and custom games so 99% I'm usually Red/Blue. But I'm not big on customization in any games... I wonder why that is...

Darwi wrote:
I run the darkest green and red. I've been called the Christmas Spartan before, and I'm not keen on giving that up. It's special to me, and I doubt they'll include a satisfying pattern with that pallet. I'm also one of those people who constantly messes with my customization between matches, but green and red is my go to.
Many video games (and especially live service style games) run holiday events. I would go so far as to guarantee you there would be some Christmas themed skins/coatings available in HI. If 343 didn't do that, it would be a huge missed opportunity for them.

Even with armor coatings I imagine your Christmas Spartan can battle once more, though admittedly you may have to wait for the holiday season to roll around.
humans can get attached to just about anything if they spend enough time with it.

Wait, are you an AI like Cortana?
For those who have not seen, here is a Twitter post that confirms Armor Coatings are valued at five U.S. Dollars.

Five dollars for a set of colors. Five. Dollars. To wear the color purple.

And the (1) makes it seem like they'll be consumable. $5 to wear purple. Another $5 to wear maybe orange. And when you want to go back, another $5. Granted, that's theory, but at this point I would not be surprised.

We absolutely CANNOT STAND FOR THIS.
For those who have not seen, here is a Twitter post that confirms Armor Coatings are valued at five U.S. Dollars.

Five dollars for a set of colors. Five. Dollars. To wear the color purple.

And the (1) makes it seem like they'll be consumable. $5 to wear purple. Another $5 to wear maybe orange. And when you want to go back, another $5. Granted, that's theory, but at this point I would not be surprised.

We absolutely CANNOT STAND FOR THIS.
I believe Sean w confirmed this when he bought a pack nabisco cookies. On the packaging it referred to the value of the armor coating at $5. I really hope that once it’s unlocked it stays unlocked and isn’t following suit to the consumables portion like Destiny Sliders
For those who have not seen, here is a Twitter post that confirms Armor Coatings are valued at five U.S. Dollars.

Five dollars for a set of colors. Five. Dollars. To wear the color purple.

And the (1) makes it seem like they'll be consumable. $5 to wear purple. Another $5 to wear maybe orange. And when you want to go back, another $5. Granted, that's theory, but at this point I would not be surprised.

We absolutely CANNOT STAND FOR THIS.
I had extremely low expectations for Infinite, and 343 somehow managed to find a way to disappointment. Their sheer greed and downright stupidity is astounding. Who are they thinking they're gonna fool with this crap?

If Halo isn't dead, it's on life support. And I have a feeling that Infinite's coming failure will kill the franchise.

Thanks 343!
So, looks like the cost of the "coatings" will be $5: https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/jj0prj/343_is_charging_5_for_the_color_purple_speak_up/?sort=new

Emblems are gonna cost around $2: https://www.nabiscoxbox.com/public/COMPILED/fulfillment/terms.c4a0f219def99ae2e5a2b2bd1cedbd48.pdf
Welp.
Zak Ras 32 wrote:
If I myself were a multi-million dollar investor, I'm at the point were I'd want serious answers into what the hell is going on behind the scenes.
Sincerely appreciate your write-up. This sentence really stood out to me: that explanation equals respect for investment. Even the recent assertion by 343 that they are not "turtling up" admits in plain language that they are not giving the fanbase information that's valuable to an expectation of a product release.
As someone who works in business, I simply cannot understand how the team in charge of messaging did not assemble all the relevant copy on these promotions that they knew was releasing for public purchase ahead of game release and work it into their marketing sequence. Their messaging has been almost completely reactionary: evidencing very little contingency planning. I cannot wait for this game, but Marketing/Community Management has yet to demonstrate any meaningful strategy for bridging fanbase members past a significant delay. This is a flagship property, and this boggles my mind.
Look at the spartan customization of Halo Reach and just let it soak in that we got that along with the fantastic campaign for $70.

Now in the year 2020 we're probably gonna get a half -Yoinked!- campaign alone for $70 and then you'll have to fork out probably upwards of thousands of dollars to fully unlock a customization system that's going to be far inferior to the one we saw in Halo Reach.It truly is an amazing time to be alive.
SketchyBR wrote:
Look at the spartan customization of Halo Reach and just let it soak in that we got that along with the fantastic campaign for $70.

Now in the year 2020 we're probably gonna get a half -Yoinked!- campaign alone for $70 and then you'll have to fork out probably upwards of thousands of dollars to fully unlock a customization system that's going to be far inferior to the one we saw in Halo Reach.It truly is an amazing time to be alive.
Ten bucks says that when 2020 ends we are just gonna hear sudden death. I mean jesus everything this year is -Yoinked!- up. Infinite was gonna be one of the only bright points of 2020.
Darwi wrote:
I'm genuinely intrigued here. I had no idea people got so passionate about their colours. I pretty much set and forgot my Halo 5 ones on day one (my footy team's colours). I honestly couldn't tell you what colours I used in previous games. I remember being bright green at one stage. Oh, and purple... a very fearsome shade of lilac!

But I imagine there are only so many colour combinations in use. So it shouldn't be too hard to provide the core offerings.

Some shades, such as Cadbury's purple, may end up (temporarily?) in a paid promotion... but I'm sure there will be similar shades offered up in the free / grindable palette.

Seeing as I have no attachment to my Spartan's colours I am looking forward to what the new system offers up...
Yeah I'm in a very similar boat. I had no idea people got so attached to their colors. It makes sense I suppose, humans can get attached to just about anything if they spend enough time with it.

I think the reason I haven't thought about it much is I despise FFA, infection, and custom games so 99% I'm usually Red/Blue. But I'm not big on customization in any games... I wonder why that is...

Darwi wrote:
I run the darkest green and red. I've been called the Christmas Spartan before, and I'm not keen on giving that up. It's special to me, and I doubt they'll include a satisfying pattern with that pallet. I'm also one of those people who constantly messes with my customization between matches, but green and red is my go to.
Many video games (and especially live service style games) run holiday events. I would go so far as to guarantee you there would be some Christmas themed skins/coatings available in HI. If 343 didn't do that, it would be a huge missed opportunity for them.

Even with armor coatings I imagine your Christmas Spartan can battle once more, though admittedly you may have to wait for the holiday season to roll around.
It makes me wonder, is the whole “Red vs. Blue” thing gonna go away? I wouldn’t try to make someone buy a bunch of skins and then only let them use them in a few modes. Yeah, we couldn’t use custom colors in many modes before but we also didn’t have to earn or pay for colors before. Thoughts?
Darwi wrote:
Halo 5 currently has 3600 possible color combinations.
Cool.

It would still be fascinating to know how many of those combinations are in active rotation.
Here you go :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHvlymjsq6Q&t=1s
Zakspeeeed wrote:
What you guys at 343 have provided in terms of information on this feature isn't enough. You have got to come out and say how this system is going to work. All you've done is beat around the bush.

"a “coating" is “a seven-layer shader that allows us to put any artist-authored color, material, or pattern into seven channels and apply it to in-game items like weapons, armor, and vehicles.”" Well no kidding. We want to know how we get new colors.

  • Do we start out with a certain amount of colors?
  • Can we mix and match armor coatings?
  • Can we create our own armor coatings?
  • How do we get new armor coatings?
These are the questions we want to know. If we can mix and match and players have a good amount of colors to start out with (like 30-40), no one will have a problem with this new system. Then maybe we can stick to these cool sets with pre-determined shades like Red Shift which has a bunch of different colors going on while also being able to create our own patterns.

Please tell us.
I don't know about anyone else, but I just inferred this when I read the post. I think all of the negative sentiment seems to come from people trying to put words in 343 mouths when that doesn't make sense to do. Like this OP on this forum is essentially saying "Woah woah woah. 343 didn't explicitly state that they would give us colors to work with by default. I think that means they won't let us do that." When any rational person would see the post and assume that yeah, that's probably the case. I have no idea where people are getting the idea that the color green is going to somehow locked behind a paywall. The hivemind at work, I guess. For example, consider a game like MW, where every gun has a unique set of customization options with the skin, stickers, reticles, etc. with the option to simply unlock a really large amount of these options through gameplay, or the added caveat of getting particularly unique skins through MTX. A system like this is what I immediately assumed was going to happen. I guess I just give 343 the benefit of the doubt? I don't know why you wouldn't here.
I guess for me it's a matter of saying "You didn't explicitly say this, but I didn't think you necessarily needed to say that so I'm going to assume you're adding that" vs. "You didn't explicitly say this, does this mean you're just not going to have anything like this?" which seems like the wrong take to make about the situation completely. It just seems like overreaction for the sake of being upset and I feel like it's largely a waste of everyone's time to make this much conjecture about it.
Even what you are suggesting is TERRIBLE. COD's Customisation has always been sub-par. We want H-A-L-O customisation.
You're really telling me you don't like MW's gun skin customization?? I had thought it was the actual best of any shooter to date. To each his own, I suppose.
Good for COD. Not for Halo.
You just said COD's customization was sub-par I thought? You don't even know what you like, how could you know that you wouldn't end up liking this?

I mean, why? Why is it not good? What even is H-A-L-O customization? Did Halo 3 invent and patent the primary/secondary color technique? Why does it actually matter how you can customize your spartan, as long as the options for customizations allow for everyone to be unique?
Sub-par customization is just fine, even good for COD. Its sub-par overall but fine for COD, because player expression has never been that important in COD compared to Halo. And cheers mate, I do know what I like.

Why is it not good overall? Because player expression is limited, every weapon has a set of artist designed skins and medals or whatever. I've played the Warzone element of MW and sure it has a lot of options but that doesn't make it quality. If it was good you'd be able to use the 'skins' as a texture/layering on top of actual customisation.

Character customisation isn't the same as skins

It matters how you can customise your Spartan because the system they've put forward were colours are baked into the coating means that no one is unique. You have to hope to get a skin that has your colour combo. Which has existed since Halo 2. The coating system would needs seemingly hundreds of coats to compete with the combinations possible through a simple 2 or 3 colour choice system. Nobody will be unique if how they've described it thus far is what we're getting.

Additionally, Halo Infinite means to use a hamstringed version of what they could potentially do which is provide us with the ability to colour each piece of armour with whatever colour we want individually whilst also being able to apply textures/metallics to each individual pieces which they've designed for their 'coatings'.

They've taken away a categorically superior customisation system for the sake of monetising player expression that has been inherent to Halo's multiplayer and social aspect for nearly two decades.
Ok first thing about the COD stuff: It's your opinion. I don't think I have heard of ANYONE labeling their system as "sub-par".
Second thing: What games actually allow for skins/texturing on top of the "actual" customization?

No one is unique? What about the Reach-style armor customization they're talking of implementing? You're ignoring that part completely. Also, where have they said that they won't have hundreds of coatings to choose from?

I guess, yeah, if I make all the same assumptions that you're making, then you're right, nobody will be unique.

Lastly, "categorically superior"?? You're using the word "categorically", which means unambiguously explicit or direct, to describe what is effectively a completely subjective feature of the game? My guy, you are making the logically fallacy of assuming that only you and the people who agree with you have the correct answer about something subjective hahaha
I honestly don't mind an update to the coloring methods of halo.

I am really worried that this microtransactions for shaders is going to generate a huge amount of bad PR. There's almost no info on what is and isn't purchasable vs unlockable. Can you, for your own sake, let the community know how this will work?

Are cosmetics a paywalls feature? is this some sort of long term method to release new content every week? Will it be partially exclusive to people who buy pre-release promo snacks and beverages?

All I have seen is that there is a 5 dollar purple color coupon on reddit and that we aren't getting the traditional system.
For those who have not seen, here is a Twitter post that confirms Armor Coatings are valued at five U.S. Dollars.

Five dollars for a set of colors. Five. Dollars. To wear the color purple.

And the (1) makes it seem like they'll be consumable. $5 to wear purple. Another $5 to wear maybe orange. And when you want to go back, another $5. Granted, that's theory, but at this point I would not be surprised.

We absolutely CANNOT STAND FOR THIS.
"$5 for the color purple"? What a hilariously reductive argument to make. It's like people are trying to get mad for the sake of it. I can't believe it's an r/Halo mod that is giving this argument a voice.

$5 is an ERP for the promotion. Remember when Xbox Series X had an ERP of $699 for a promotion? It is not AT ALL an indicator of other coatings prices. It certainly is not a confirmation that they "all" will be $5. Not to mention the notion that we'd have to buy ALL coatings is absurd. You'll obviously be able to unlock a ton of them, perhaps all of them. We have to wait and see how the customization will work.

Not to mention the (1) is used most likely because you can only use (1) coating per Xbox Live account... not because it'll "expire" or be "consumed". Can we start using common sense instead of letting ourselves get overwhelmed and jumping to silly conclusions?
~snip~
It makes me wonder, is the whole “Red vs. Blue” thing gonna go away? I wouldn’t try to make someone buy a bunch of skins and then only let them use them in a few modes. Yeah, we couldn’t use custom colors in many modes before but we also didn’t have to earn or pay for colors before. Thoughts?
343 showed a litttttttttle indication of this in H4 naming the teams sharks and stingrays. They were of course still red and blue primary colors though, 343 just showed some signs of moving away from calling them "Red vs Blue." That's a bit of a stretch though tying the names of the teams to the colors.

I seriously doubt the color scheme would be gone, how else would we quickly identify our teammates? There needs to be a strong visual signifier that identifies friendlies and enemies.

Perhaps they're moving in a direction where "your team" gets to display their skins, and the enemies are all colored red or something? That way both teams get to see/express their choices while also being able to quickly identify the enemy as red? I'm no game dev but maybe they're experimenting with it in that manner.
Darwi wrote:
I'm genuinely intrigued here. I had no idea people got so passionate about their colours. I pretty much set and forgot my Halo 5 ones on day one (my footy team's colours). I honestly couldn't tell you what colours I used in previous games. I remember being bright green at one stage. Oh, and purple... a very fearsome shade of lilac!

But I imagine there are only so many colour combinations in use. So it shouldn't be too hard to provide the core offerings.

Some shades, such as Cadbury's purple, may end up (temporarily?) in a paid promotion... but I'm sure there will be similar shades offered up in the free / grindable palette.

Seeing as I have no attachment to my Spartan's colours I am looking forward to what the new system offers up...
Yeah I'm in a very similar boat. I had no idea people got so attached to their colors. It makes sense I suppose, humans can get attached to just about anything if they spend enough time with it.

I think the reason I haven't thought about it much is I despise FFA, infection, and custom games so 99% I'm usually Red/Blue. But I'm not big on customization in any games... I wonder why that is...
I have no idea why this is so surprising to some people. If people didn't care how they looked, colors included, these skin based MTX systems wouldn't be as effective as they are. Colors matter to people regardless of how often it actually gets seen. By that same token why would any of your other cosmetic choices matter I mean a large percentage of the time you are looking at nothing but your forearms or are otherwise obscured by a vehicle.

If colors are such trivial unimportant part of the game, why are they almost certainly going to be involved in the games MTX system? Seems strange to me to monetize something like that if it isn't really that big of a deal to most people.
Quote:
Darwi wrote:
I run the darkest green and red. I've been called the Christmas Spartan before, and I'm not keen on giving that up. It's special to me, and I doubt they'll include a satisfying pattern with that pallet. I'm also one of those people who constantly messes with my customization between matches, but green and red is my go to.
Many video games (and especially live service style games) run holiday events. I would go so far as to guarantee you there would be some Christmas themed skins/coatings available in HI. If 343 didn't do that, it would be a huge missed opportunity for them.

Even with armor coatings I imagine your Christmas Spartan can battle once more, though admittedly you may have to wait for the holiday season to roll around.
Sweet can't wait for more FOMO based 'events' just so players can get the basic color schemes they want. They can talk about how great and robust a system with baked in colors is supposed to be but the bottom line is that preventing players from customizing their colors as part of the Coatings system was a choice. They could have implemented it in a way that allows players to take advantage of the various patterns, materials, and layers they can now add while still allowing for color customization(and even monetization)but they didn't.

This is what people are angry about. Taking away a basic feature as old as the series itself in order to sell it back to players whether it is part of cross promotions or its F2P economy.

Personally I find these expressions of surprise at the backlash to be much more "intriguing." Like, where have y'all been all this time? Its not that complicated of a situation.
Zakspeeeed wrote:
What you guys at 343 have provided in terms of information on this feature isn't enough. You have got to come out and say how this system is going to work. All you've done is beat around the bush.

"a “coating" is “a seven-layer shader that allows us to put any artist-authored color, material, or pattern into seven channels and apply it to in-game items like weapons, armor, and vehicles.”" Well no kidding. We want to know how we get new colors.

  • Do we start out with a certain amount of colors?
  • Can we mix and match armor coatings?
  • Can we create our own armor coatings?
  • How do we get new armor coatings?
These are the questions we want to know. If we can mix and match and players have a good amount of colors to start out with (like 30-40), no one will have a problem with this new system. Then maybe we can stick to these cool sets with pre-determined shades like Red Shift which has a bunch of different colors going on while also being able to create our own patterns.

Please tell us.
I don't know about anyone else, but I just inferred this when I read the post. I think all of the negative sentiment seems to come from people trying to put words in 343 mouths when that doesn't make sense to do. Like this OP on this forum is essentially saying "Woah woah woah. 343 didn't explicitly state that they would give us colors to work with by default. I think that means they won't let us do that." When any rational person would see the post and assume that yeah, that's probably the case. I have no idea where people are getting the idea that the color green is going to somehow locked behind a paywall. The hivemind at work, I guess. For example, consider a game like MW, where every gun has a unique set of customization options with the skin, stickers, reticles, etc. with the option to simply unlock a really large amount of these options through gameplay, or the added caveat of getting particularly unique skins through MTX. A system like this is what I immediately assumed was going to happen. I guess I just give 343 the benefit of the doubt? I don't know why you wouldn't here.
I guess for me it's a matter of saying "You didn't explicitly say this, but I didn't think you necessarily needed to say that so I'm going to assume you're adding that" vs. "You didn't explicitly say this, does this mean you're just not going to have anything like this?" which seems like the wrong take to make about the situation completely. It just seems like overreaction for the sake of being upset and I feel like it's largely a waste of everyone's time to make this much conjecture about it.
Even what you are suggesting is TERRIBLE. COD's Customisation has always been sub-par. We want H-A-L-O customisation.
You're really telling me you don't like MW's gun skin customization?? I had thought it was the actual best of any shooter to date. To each his own, I suppose.
Good for COD. Not for Halo.
You just said COD's customization was sub-par I thought? You don't even know what you like, how could you know that you wouldn't end up liking this?

I mean, why? Why is it not good? What even is H-A-L-O customization? Did Halo 3 invent and patent the primary/secondary color technique? Why does it actually matter how you can customize your spartan, as long as the options for customizations allow for everyone to be unique?
Sub-par customization is just fine, even good for COD. Its sub-par overall but fine for COD, because player expression has never been that important in COD compared to Halo. And cheers mate, I do know what I like.

Why is it not good overall? Because player expression is limited, every weapon has a set of artist designed skins and medals or whatever. I've played the Warzone element of MW and sure it has a lot of options but that doesn't make it quality. If it was good you'd be able to use the 'skins' as a texture/layering on top of actual customisation.

Character customisation isn't the same as skins

It matters how you can customise your Spartan because the system they've put forward were colours are baked into the coating means that no one is unique. You have to hope to get a skin that has your colour combo. Which has existed since Halo 2. The coating system would needs seemingly hundreds of coats to compete with the combinations possible through a simple 2 or 3 colour choice system. Nobody will be unique if how they've described it thus far is what we're getting.

Additionally, Halo Infinite means to use a hamstringed version of what they could potentially do which is provide us with the ability to colour each piece of armour with whatever colour we want individually whilst also being able to apply textures/metallics to each individual pieces which they've designed for their 'coatings'.

They've taken away a categorically superior customisation system for the sake of monetising player expression that has been inherent to Halo's multiplayer and social aspect for nearly two decades.
Ok first thing about the COD stuff: It's your opinion. I don't think I have heard of ANYONE labeling their system as "sub-par".
Second thing: What games actually allow for skins/texturing on top of the "actual" customization?

No one is unique? What about the Reach-style armor customization they're talking of implementing? You're ignoring that part completely. Also, where have they said that they won't have hundreds of coatings to choose from?

I guess, yeah, if I make all the same assumptions that you're making, then you're right, nobody will be unique.

Lastly, "categorically superior"?? You're using the word "categorically", which means unambiguously explicit or direct, to describe what is effectively a completely subjective feature of the game? My guy, you are making the logically fallacy of assuming that only you and the people who agree with you have the correct answer about something subjective hahaha
Mathematically 343 would be required to make literally thousands of coats to match the possible combinations from a three colour customisation system like 3.

They claimed Reach like customisation, maybe for armour. But that's only HALF of player expression.
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