Skip to main content

Forums / Games / Halo Infinite

We want more info on "armor coating".

OP Zakspeeeed

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 20
  4. 21
  5. 22
  6. 23
  7. 24
  8. ...
  9. 41
WerepyreND wrote:
Darwi wrote:
Yeah I'm in a very similar boat. I had no idea people got so attached to their colors. It makes sense I suppose, humans can get attached to just about anything if they spend enough time with it.

I think the reason I haven't thought about it much is I despise FFA, infection, and custom games so 99% I'm usually Red/Blue. But I'm not big on customization in any games... I wonder why that is...
I have no idea why this is so surprising to some people. If people didn't care how they looked, colors included, these skin based MTX systems wouldn't be as effective as they are. Colors matter to people regardless of how often it actually gets seen. By that same token why would any of your other cosmetic choices matter I mean a large percentage of the time you are looking at nothing but your forearms or are otherwise obscured by a vehicle.

If colors are such trivial unimportant part of the game, why are they almost certainly going to be involved in the games MTX system? Seems strange to me to monetize something like that if it isn't really that big of a deal to most people.
It's surprising to me simply because it's never been a big part of my Halo experience, and I tend to surround myself with like-minded gamers. I'd say the vast majority of my games have been in Invasion, Dominion, Warzone, and BTB. My gaming pals and I tend to like big matches with R&B skins and we all tend to not buy into the cosmetic side of video games that much.

I've always known that armor choices matter and are important to people, I just never realized how much love there was for choosing colors.

It makes sense retrospectively, and I'm certainly not trying to disparage anyone. I'm learning something new and everyone in this thread has a valid point they're advocating for.
Quote:
Sweet can't wait for more FOMO based 'events' just so players can get the basic color schemes they want. They can talk about how great and robust a system with baked in colors is supposed to be but the bottom line is that preventing players from customizing their colors as part of the Coatings system was a choice. They could have implemented it in a way that allows players to take advantage of the various patterns, materials, and layers they can now add while still allowing for color customization(and even monetization)but they didn't.

This is what people are angry about. Taking away a basic feature as old as the series itself in order to sell it back to players whether it is part of cross promotions or its F2P economy.
I understand why people are upset and they are entitled to be upset. I have no quarrel with them!
Quote:
Personally I find these expressions of surprise at the backlash to be much more "intriguing." Like, where have y'all been all this time? Its not that complicated of a situation.
I suppose the answer is I've been playing Halo, uncaring about my color scheme or armor. Now I understand that I have for over a decade been ignorant of how important the things I don't personally care about are to others. That might not be the answer you were expecting, but I think that's the answer.
Ya know what? If this is what we get instead of REQ packs . . . I will just have to live with it. Because at least its only the textures that are being affected. You never know, maybe 343 will explain the system and people will suddenly love it. Because lets get real, would you rather have every armor locked behind a pay-wall? Or would you prefer to have colors behind a pay-wall? I personally would prefer for colors to be locked behind a pay-wall.
Zakspeeeed wrote:
What you guys at 343 have provided in terms of information on this feature isn't enough. You have got to come out and say how this system is going to work. All you've done is beat around the bush.

"a “coating" is “a seven-layer shader that allows us to put any artist-authored color, material, or pattern into seven channels and apply it to in-game items like weapons, armor, and vehicles.”" Well no kidding. We want to know how we get new colors.

  • Do we start out with a certain amount of colors?
  • Can we mix and match armor coatings?
  • Can we create our own armor coatings?
  • How do we get new armor coatings?
These are the questions we want to know. If we can mix and match and players have a good amount of colors to start out with (like 30-40), no one will have a problem with this new system. Then maybe we can stick to these cool sets with pre-determined shades like Red Shift which has a bunch of different colors going on while also being able to create our own patterns.

Please tell us.
I don't know about anyone else, but I just inferred this when I read the post. I think all of the negative sentiment seems to come from people trying to put words in 343 mouths when that doesn't make sense to do. Like this OP on this forum is essentially saying "Woah woah woah. 343 didn't explicitly state that they would give us colors to work with by default. I think that means they won't let us do that." When any rational person would see the post and assume that yeah, that's probably the case. I have no idea where people are getting the idea that the color green is going to somehow locked behind a paywall. The hivemind at work, I guess. For example, consider a game like MW, where every gun has a unique set of customization options with the skin, stickers, reticles, etc. with the option to simply unlock a really large amount of these options through gameplay, or the added caveat of getting particularly unique skins through MTX. A system like this is what I immediately assumed was going to happen. I guess I just give 343 the benefit of the doubt? I don't know why you wouldn't here.
I guess for me it's a matter of saying "You didn't explicitly say this, but I didn't think you necessarily needed to say that so I'm going to assume you're adding that" vs. "You didn't explicitly say this, does this mean you're just not going to have anything like this?" which seems like the wrong take to make about the situation completely. It just seems like overreaction for the sake of being upset and I feel like it's largely a waste of everyone's time to make this much conjecture about it.
Even what you are suggesting is TERRIBLE. COD's Customisation has always been sub-par. We want H-A-L-O customisation.
You're really telling me you don't like MW's gun skin customization?? I had thought it was the actual best of any shooter to date. To each his own, I suppose.
Good for COD. Not for Halo.
You just said COD's customization was sub-par I thought? You don't even know what you like, how could you know that you wouldn't end up liking this?

I mean, why? Why is it not good? What even is H-A-L-O customization? Did Halo 3 invent and patent the primary/secondary color technique? Why does it actually matter how you can customize your spartan, as long as the options for customizations allow for everyone to be unique?
Sub-par customization is just fine, even good for COD. Its sub-par overall but fine for COD, because player expression has never been that important in COD compared to Halo. And cheers mate, I do know what I like.

Why is it not good overall? Because player expression is limited, every weapon has a set of artist designed skins and medals or whatever. I've played the Warzone element of MW and sure it has a lot of options but that doesn't make it quality. If it was good you'd be able to use the 'skins' as a texture/layering on top of actual customisation.

Character customisation isn't the same as skins

It matters how you can customise your Spartan because the system they've put forward were colours are baked into the coating means that no one is unique. You have to hope to get a skin that has your colour combo. Which has existed since Halo 2. The coating system would needs seemingly hundreds of coats to compete with the combinations possible through a simple 2 or 3 colour choice system. Nobody will be unique if how they've described it thus far is what we're getting.

Additionally, Halo Infinite means to use a hamstringed version of what they could potentially do which is provide us with the ability to colour each piece of armour with whatever colour we want individually whilst also being able to apply textures/metallics to each individual pieces which they've designed for their 'coatings'.

They've taken away a categorically superior customisation system for the sake of monetising player expression that has been inherent to Halo's multiplayer and social aspect for nearly two decades.
Ok first thing about the COD stuff: It's your opinion. I don't think I have heard of ANYONE labeling their system as "sub-par".
Second thing: What games actually allow for skins/texturing on top of the "actual" customization?

No one is unique? What about the Reach-style armor customization they're talking of implementing? You're ignoring that part completely. Also, where have they said that they won't have hundreds of coatings to choose from?

I guess, yeah, if I make all the same assumptions that you're making, then you're right, nobody will be unique.

Lastly, "categorically superior"?? You're using the word "categorically", which means unambiguously explicit or direct, to describe what is effectively a completely subjective feature of the game? My guy, you are making the logically fallacy of assuming that only you and the people who agree with you have the correct answer about something subjective hahaha
Mathematically 343 would be required to make literally thousands of coats to match the possible combinations from a three colour customisation system like 3.

They claimed Reach like customisation, maybe for armour. But that's only HALF of player expression.
I don’t think they’re thinking in terms of matching the possibilities of color options so much as mathematically lining their pockets for moneysoft.
Ya know what? If this is what we get instead of REQ packs . . . I will just have to live with it. Because at least its only the textures that are being affected. You never know, maybe 343 will explain the system and people will suddenly love it. Because lets get real, would you rather have every armor locked behind a pay-wall? Or would you prefer to have colors behind a pay-wall? I personally would prefer for colors to be locked behind a pay-wall.
I'd rather unlock armor/colors by simply playing like I used to, for a game I ALREADY PAID FOR. Anything else is exorbitant greed.
Ya know what? If this is what we get instead of REQ packs . . . I will just have to live with it. Because at least its only the textures that are being affected. You never know, maybe 343 will explain the system and people will suddenly love it. Because lets get real, would you rather have every armor locked behind a pay-wall? Or would you prefer to have colors behind a pay-wall? I personally would prefer for colors to be locked behind a pay-wall.
I'd rather unlock armor/colors by simply playing like I used for a game I ALREADY PAID FOR. Anything else is exorbitant greed.
True, but at this rate, we will have to take what we can get.
~snip~
It makes me wonder, is the whole “Red vs. Blue” thing gonna go away? I wouldn’t try to make someone buy a bunch of skins and then only let them use them in a few modes. Yeah, we couldn’t use custom colors in many modes before but we also didn’t have to earn or pay for colors before. Thoughts?
343 showed a litttttttttle indication of this in H4 naming the teams sharks and stingrays. They were of course still red and blue primary colors though, 343 just showed some signs of moving away from calling them "Red vs Blue." That's a bit of a stretch though tying the names of the teams to the colors.

I seriously doubt the color scheme would be gone, how else would we quickly identify our teammates? There needs to be a strong visual signifier that identifies friendlies and enemies.

Perhaps they're moving in a direction where "your team" gets to display their skins, and the enemies are all colored red or something? That way both teams get to see/express their choices while also being able to quickly identify the enemy as red? I'm no game dev but maybe they're experimenting with it in that manner.
My thought is whatever the successor to Arena is will be RvB still, with the 'casual' gamemode being default skins with red/blue outlines ala destiny.
~snip~
It makes me wonder, is the whole “Red vs. Blue” thing gonna go away? I wouldn’t try to make someone buy a bunch of skins and then only let them use them in a few modes. Yeah, we couldn’t use custom colors in many modes before but we also didn’t have to earn or pay for colors before. Thoughts?
343 showed a litttttttttle indication of this in H4 naming the teams sharks and stingrays. They were of course still red and blue primary colors though, 343 just showed some signs of moving away from calling them "Red vs Blue." That's a bit of a stretch though tying the names of the teams to the colors.

I seriously doubt the color scheme would be gone, how else would we quickly identify our teammates? There needs to be a strong visual signifier that identifies friendlies and enemies.

Perhaps they're moving in a direction where "your team" gets to display their skins, and the enemies are all colored red or something? That way both teams get to see/express their choices while also being able to quickly identify the enemy as red? I'm no game dev but maybe they're experimenting with it in that manner.
Perhaps. I don’t know if it would be giving the player too much information, but maybe having your allies highlighted on the map could work? (Have a blue outline on your teammates)
Ya know what? If this is what we get instead of REQ packs . . . I will just have to live with it. Because at least its only the textures that are being affected. You never know, maybe 343 will explain the system and people will suddenly love it. Because lets get real, would you rather have every armor locked behind a pay-wall? Or would you prefer to have colors behind a pay-wall? I personally would prefer for colors to be locked behind a pay-wall.
I'd rather unlock armor/colors by simply playing like I used for a game I ALREADY PAID FOR. Anything else is exorbitant greed.
Who says you can't?
Ya know what? If this is what we get instead of REQ packs . . . I will just have to live with it. Because at least its only the textures that are being affected. You never know, maybe 343 will explain the system and people will suddenly love it. Because lets get real, would you rather have every armor locked behind a pay-wall? Or would you prefer to have colors behind a pay-wall? I personally would prefer for colors to be locked behind a pay-wall.
I'd rather unlock armor/colors by simply playing like I used for a game I ALREADY PAID FOR. Anything else is exorbitant greed.
True, but at this rate, we will have to take what we can get.
You CAN say "no" and decline until you're shown the same level of quality and treatment you expected and got a decade ago and beyond with Halo.

Again, remember; that defeatist attitude of "I'll just accept basic features being continously taken away because corporate executives want to tout the Halo franchise as just another free-to-play mess of a live service"... is exactly what said corp execs are banking on.

EDIT: I've just remembered, someone thought it was a good idea to explain that the armour in Halo 5 would be locked in a bloated lootbox system, and to anyone whose concerned about the balance of REQ weapons; "GROWN-UP's are talking".
Quellyford wrote:
Ya know what? If this is what we get instead of REQ packs . . . I will just have to live with it. Because at least its only the textures that are being affected. You never know, maybe 343 will explain the system and people will suddenly love it. Because lets get real, would you rather have every armor locked behind a pay-wall? Or would you prefer to have colors behind a pay-wall? I personally would prefer for colors to be locked behind a pay-wall.
I'd rather unlock armor/colors by simply playing like I used for a game I ALREADY PAID FOR. Anything else is exorbitant greed.
Who says you can't?
Sure hope that the color scheme you like isn't behind a massive grind wall designed to frustrate you into just buying it for $5.

Come on people, use your heads, we've all seen how this F2P crap works.
Zak Ras 32 wrote:
Ya know what? If this is what we get instead of REQ packs . . . I will just have to live with it. Because at least its only the textures that are being affected. You never know, maybe 343 will explain the system and people will suddenly love it. Because lets get real, would you rather have every armor locked behind a pay-wall? Or would you prefer to have colors behind a pay-wall? I personally would prefer for colors to be locked behind a pay-wall.
I'd rather unlock armor/colors by simply playing like I used for a game I ALREADY PAID FOR. Anything else is exorbitant greed.
True, but at this rate, we will have to take what we can get.
You CAN say "no" and decline until you're shown the same level of quality and treatment you expected and got a decade ago and beyond with Halo.

Again, remember; that defeatist attitude of "I'll just accept basic features being continously taken away because corporate executives want to tout the Halo franchise as just another free-to-play mess of a live service"... is exactly what said corp execs are banking on.

EDIT: I've just remembered, someone thought it was a good idea to explain that the armour in Halo 5 would be locked in a bloated lootbox system, and to anyone whose concerned about the balance of REQ weapons; "GROWN-UP's are talking".
I know that, but honestly with a company as stubborn as 343. I doubt that they will change based off of our feedback. And since it is not THAT big a deal that we cannot pick our colors (even if it is ridiculous), I don't think I will walk based on something so trivial (even if it is unfair).

So I get that I am playing right into 343's hands here. But I gave up on 343 listening to us a long time ago.
Zak Ras 32 wrote:
Ya know what? If this is what we get instead of REQ packs . . . I will just have to live with it. Because at least its only the textures that are being affected. You never know, maybe 343 will explain the system and people will suddenly love it. Because lets get real, would you rather have every armor locked behind a pay-wall? Or would you prefer to have colors behind a pay-wall? I personally would prefer for colors to be locked behind a pay-wall.
I'd rather unlock armor/colors by simply playing like I used for a game I ALREADY PAID FOR. Anything else is exorbitant greed.
True, but at this rate, we will have to take what we can get.
You CAN say "no" and decline until you're shown the same level of quality and treatment you expected and got a decade ago and beyond with Halo.

Again, remember; that defeatist attitude of "I'll just accept basic features being continously taken away because corporate executives want to tout the Halo franchise as just another free-to-play mess of a live service"... is exactly what said corp execs are banking on.

EDIT: I've just remembered, someone thought it was a good idea to explain that the armour in Halo 5 would be locked in a bloated lootbox system, and to anyone whose concerned about the balance of REQ weapons; "GROWN-UP's are talking".
I know that, but honestly with a company as stubborn as 343. I doubt that they will change based off of our feedback. And since it is not THAT big a deal that we cannot pick our colors (even if it is ridiculous), I don't think I will walk based on something so trivial (even if it is unfair).

So I get that I am playing right into 343's hands here. But I gave up on 343 listening to us a long time ago.
They did revert how coloring emblems worked in Halo 5 after launch.
News update: The color purple in Halo Infinite will cost $5 (evidence)
Quellyford wrote:
Ya know what? If this is what we get instead of REQ packs . . . I will just have to live with it. Because at least its only the textures that are being affected. You never know, maybe 343 will explain the system and people will suddenly love it. Because lets get real, would you rather have every armor locked behind a pay-wall? Or would you prefer to have colors behind a pay-wall? I personally would prefer for colors to be locked behind a pay-wall.
I'd rather unlock armor/colors by simply playing like I used for a game I ALREADY PAID FOR. Anything else is exorbitant greed.
Who says you can't?
Sure hope that the color scheme you like isn't behind a massive grind wall designed to frustrate you into just buying it for $5.

Come on people, use your heads, we've all seen how this F2P crap works.
Personally, I'm just more excited about the potential of armor coatings than mourning the loss of having primary colors. The potential of unique patterns, designs, effects, equipment, and more on your armor excites me too much to care about simple color schemes.
Quellyford wrote:
Quellyford wrote:
Ya know what? If this is what we get instead of REQ packs . . . I will just have to live with it. Because at least its only the textures that are being affected. You never know, maybe 343 will explain the system and people will suddenly love it. Because lets get real, would you rather have every armor locked behind a pay-wall? Or would you prefer to have colors behind a pay-wall? I personally would prefer for colors to be locked behind a pay-wall.
I'd rather unlock armor/colors by simply playing like I used for a game I ALREADY PAID FOR. Anything else is exorbitant greed.
Who says you can't?
Sure hope that the color scheme you like isn't behind a massive grind wall designed to frustrate you into just buying it for $5.

Come on people, use your heads, we've all seen how this F2P crap works.
Personally, I'm just more excited about the potential of armor coatings than mourning the loss of having primary colors. The potential of unique patterns, designs, effects, equipment, and more on your armor excites me too much to care about simple color schemes.
"The Prophets are liars, but you are fools to do their bidding."

--Arbiter
Quellyford wrote:
Quellyford wrote:
Ya know what? If this is what we get instead of REQ packs . . . I will just have to live with it. Because at least its only the textures that are being affected. You never know, maybe 343 will explain the system and people will suddenly love it. Because lets get real, would you rather have every armor locked behind a pay-wall? Or would you prefer to have colors behind a pay-wall? I personally would prefer for colors to be locked behind a pay-wall.
I'd rather unlock armor/colors by simply playing like I used for a game I ALREADY PAID FOR. Anything else is exorbitant greed.
Who says you can't?
Sure hope that the color scheme you like isn't behind a massive grind wall designed to frustrate you into just buying it for $5.

Come on people, use your heads, we've all seen how this F2P crap works.
Personally, I'm just more excited about the potential of armor coatings than mourning the loss of having primary colors. The potential of unique patterns, designs, effects, equipment, and more on your armor excites me too much to care about simple color schemes.
"The Prophets are liars, but you are fools to do their bidding."

--Arbiter
I forget how fun it is to mine the Halo games for quotes to use on people.

Honestly, I understand wanting more customization potential, I just think that the amount we have now is good. They could have literally just copied DOOM 2016's MP customization, and I don't think anyone would be mad. That customization system was extensive and well put-together.

It just couldn't be monetized. The guy you're responding to is saying things like "Well, there'll be a lot that can be unlocked!" but he doesn't know that. He's speculating as much as we are. It's possible there's a 50/50 split of unlockables and purchasable, but until 343 gets their heads out of the sand and starts clarifying thing, we're reduced to mere speculation.
Quellyford wrote:
Quellyford wrote:
Ya know what? If this is what we get instead of REQ packs . . . I will just have to live with it. Because at least its only the textures that are being affected. You never know, maybe 343 will explain the system and people will suddenly love it. Because lets get real, would you rather have every armor locked behind a pay-wall? Or would you prefer to have colors behind a pay-wall? I personally would prefer for colors to be locked behind a pay-wall.
I'd rather unlock armor/colors by simply playing like I used for a game I ALREADY PAID FOR. Anything else is exorbitant greed.
Who says you can't?
Sure hope that the color scheme you like isn't behind a massive grind wall designed to frustrate you into just buying it for $5.

Come on people, use your heads, we've all seen how this F2P crap works.
Personally, I'm just more excited about the potential of armor coatings than mourning the loss of having primary colors. The potential of unique patterns, designs, effects, equipment, and more on your armor excites me too much to care about simple color schemes.
"The Prophets are liars, but you are fools to do their bidding."

--Arbiter
Meh, to me it seems more productive to be excited about the potential of a new direction than complain pointlessly online about a topic we don't fully understand yet. Because remember, all this whining is from a paragraph and some screenshots.
Quellyford wrote:
Quellyford wrote:
Quellyford wrote:
Ya know what? If this is what we get instead of REQ packs . . . I will just have to live with it. Because at least its only the textures that are being affected. You never know, maybe 343 will explain the system and people will suddenly love it. Because lets get real, would you rather have every armor locked behind a pay-wall? Or would you prefer to have colors behind a pay-wall? I personally would prefer for colors to be locked behind a pay-wall.
I'd rather unlock armor/colors by simply playing like I used for a game I ALREADY PAID FOR. Anything else is exorbitant greed.
Who says you can't?
Sure hope that the color scheme you like isn't behind a massive grind wall designed to frustrate you into just buying it for $5.

Come on people, use your heads, we've all seen how this F2P crap works.
Personally, I'm just more excited about the potential of armor coatings than mourning the loss of having primary colors. The potential of unique patterns, designs, effects, equipment, and more on your armor excites me too much to care about simple color schemes.
"The Prophets are liars, but you are fools to do their bidding."

--Arbiter
Meh, to me it seems more productive to be excited about the potential of a new direction than complain pointlessly online about a topic we don't fully understand yet. Because remember, all this whining is from a paragraph and some screenshots.
And a receipt calling a coating a $5 value.
Quellyford wrote:
Quellyford wrote:
Quellyford wrote:
Ya know what? If this is what we get instead of REQ packs . . . I will just have to live with it. Because at least its only the textures that are being affected. You never know, maybe 343 will explain the system and people will suddenly love it. Because lets get real, would you rather have every armor locked behind a pay-wall? Or would you prefer to have colors behind a pay-wall? I personally would prefer for colors to be locked behind a pay-wall.
I'd rather unlock armor/colors by simply playing like I used for a game I ALREADY PAID FOR. Anything else is exorbitant greed.
Who says you can't?
Sure hope that the color scheme you like isn't behind a massive grind wall designed to frustrate you into just buying it for $5.

Come on people, use your heads, we've all seen how this F2P crap works.
Personally, I'm just more excited about the potential of armor coatings than mourning the loss of having primary colors. The potential of unique patterns, designs, effects, equipment, and more on your armor excites me too much to care about simple color schemes.
"The Prophets are liars, but you are fools to do their bidding."

--Arbiter
Meh, to me it seems more productive to be excited about the potential of a new direction than complain pointlessly online about a topic we don't fully understand yet. Because remember, all this whining is from a paragraph and some screenshots.
And a receipt calling a coating a $5 value.
Wouldn't that just be an ERP for promotional purposes? Kind of like how ERP for Xbox Series X was like $699 in US promos a couple months before pricing was announced? It doesn't necessarily mean the skin itself will be $5 in Halo. That's part of the problem, people speculating based thigs they don't fully comprehend. We need to wait to get the full story before complaining. If it ends up being a horrible system, I'll be first in line to be upset, but so far I have no reason to be angry. Concerned, maybe, but angry? Come on.
Quellyford wrote:
Quellyford wrote:
Quellyford wrote:
Ya know what? If this is what we get instead of REQ packs . . . I will just have to live with it. Because at least its only the textures that are being affected. You never know, maybe 343 will explain the system and people will suddenly love it. Because lets get real, would you rather have every armor locked behind a pay-wall? Or would you prefer to have colors behind a pay-wall? I personally would prefer for colors to be locked behind a pay-wall.
I'd rather unlock armor/colors by simply playing like I used for a game I ALREADY PAID FOR. Anything else is exorbitant greed.
Who says you can't?
Sure hope that the color scheme you like isn't behind a massive grind wall designed to frustrate you into just buying it for $5.

Come on people, use your heads, we've all seen how this F2P crap works.
Personally, I'm just more excited about the potential of armor coatings than mourning the loss of having primary colors. The potential of unique patterns, designs, effects, equipment, and more on your armor excites me too much to care about simple color schemes.
"The Prophets are liars, but you are fools to do their bidding."

--Arbiter
Meh, to me it seems more productive to be excited about the potential of a new direction than complain pointlessly online about a topic we don't fully understand yet. Because remember, all this whining is from a paragraph and some screenshots.
Neither do you, but that doesn't stop you from making definitive statements.

Criticizing the direction of the game is a way for people who are dissatisfied with this change (which seems to be the majority) to let 343 know they should change something. They've got thread after thread on Reddit and posts here on Waypoint to look over and see dissatisfaction. Part of the reason that Battlefront 2's microtransactions went away as fast as they did was because of the outrage on the internet (although the national controversy was rather damaging)

I don't want to be excited about this, because it seems like what 343 is doing is a mistake. They should let us customize freely, not greedly lock away options. How do I know they're going to have my color scheme in-game?
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 20
  4. 21
  5. 22
  6. 23
  7. 24
  8. ...
  9. 41