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Weapons Updates and Balance for Infinite

OP JunglePrimal

This thread is for discussing ideas about the current weapon sandbox and how things could be reimagined for Infinite.

I have some fresh ideas for Magnums, really carving out their distinct roles. 3 Magnums: Standard, Tactical, and Gunfighter. That doesn't include the H1, thats in as well.
Many in the community have been calling for an old school Halo feel. Well how about a standard Magnum thats a more thick husky build, deep ohm sound shot, single circle reticle shape, 4 shot kill. Now let me include that this is based on the assumption that the Battle Rifle will return as the starting weapon, thus making this magnum a legitimate pickup weapon - a filthy one at that!
Now the Tac Mag i think is about perfect as it is. A longer reticle range, more precise reticle shape, 5 shot kill.
Let's talk Gunfighter Magnum something essentially useless currently. I say make it a 10% speed boost while using! Give it a 14 round super fast rate of fire. Realistically in real life one could move much faster with a small pistol than a large rifle, so why not really carve out that niche role and make the Gunfighter a 10% speed boost to traverse maps. That would be absolutely disgusting! Being a 6 shot kill is what brings it to a balance with the sandbox.
Here we Have: H1 Magnum 3 shot Kill
New Standard Mag 4 shot
Tac Mag 5 shot
Gunfighter 6 shot +speed boost
So what about other weapons in the sandbox? theres a couple I think deserve a buff and several that i feel H5 has it pretty much perfect. The things id like to see buffed is the DMR, BR and the SMG. Honestly the DMR is decent as it is but could be a hair more disgusting! Make it the most feared standard weapon at long range. The SMG should be buffed a bit too. The Battle Rifle is a whole discussion in itself. It should be the starting weapon in my opinion. Infinite needs to hit a Home Run as far as the B.R. goes.
Weapons that are about perfect as is: Carbine, Assault Rifle, Light Rifle, Plasma Pistol, Plasma Rifle, etc.
The Boltshot I would maybe change a bit. Make it more of a skill weapon. Still high aim assist but almost like a pistol version of a suppressor. Shooting orb like projectiles with aim assist but making it slightly more pistol like with faster projectiles and slightly longer reticle range.

Lastly, talking about HCS Arena settings, and starting weapons. I don't exactly carry much clout but these are my opinions.
I liked competitive play and HCS pre update better. I think the assault rifle should have a role to play as a secondary. Rockets should have 4 rounds, not 2. Snipe 6-8 not 4.
The SPNKr is cute and all, but Standard rockets are more fun and way more deadly. Overall just more pickup weapons available, make it fun and not to dry.
Halo is all about having many ways of expression, checks and balances. All the minor pickup weapons bring overall balance.

I think the Battle Rifle is destined to make it's return as primary starter. It deserves a worthy partner to pair it with. An Assault Rifle or SMG will do.
What say you.
Right now I think there should be 2 UNSC pistols but no more and they play very differently (again this is assuming that dual wielding is back in Halo Infinite)
  1. The classic M6D Pistol with the full hand guard to tell them apart, with the 2x scope, not dual weldable, does good damage, good range but starts to taper off or fade out when getting to the ranges used by BR/DMR/Carbine/Needle Rifles. Don't try and use this as a sniper.
  2. The infamous dual wielding magnum, but the H3 stats as they have a little more punch to them. No zoom capability, but you can mix them with a plasma pistol, SMG, or another Magnum.
So mys solution to UNSC pistols between the CE/ODST or the H2/H3 version is to have both of them in, and just make them different weapons. Why can one be dual wielded when the other cannot? Make something up.
I have some fresh ideas for Magnums, really carving out their distinct roles. 3 Magnums: Standard, Tactical, and Gunfighter. That doesn't include the H1, thats in as well.
How about if there was just one Magnum?
I have some fresh ideas for Magnums, really carving out their distinct roles. 3 Magnums: Standard, Tactical, and Gunfighter. That doesn't include the H1, thats in as well.
How about if there was just one Magnum?
If there was just one id go with the new husky build 4 shot design. Or the 6 shot gunfighter mag with speedboost. A large sandbox is a strength though i think.
I have some fresh ideas for Magnums, really carving out their distinct roles. 3 Magnums: Standard, Tactical, and Gunfighter. That doesn't include the H1, thats in as well.
How about if there was just one Magnum?
If there was just one id go with the new husky build 4 shot design. Or the 6 shot gunfighter mag with speedboost. A large sandbox is a strength though i think.
A large sandbox is redundant. In a game where all people spawn with the same weapons, there's no point in having multiple nearly identical weapons. Furthermore, in Halo where fire rate and damage per bullet are the only things separating precision weapons from each other and it takes upwards from three shots to kill a player, there is even less variation in how those weapons function in gameplay.

I'd personally rather see Halo Infinite have the minimal viable weapon sandbox, where everything that doesn't need to be in the game isn't, and the role of each weapon is carefully thought out. I'd rather see 343i give some existing weapons desperately needed unique behavior and try to come up with new ones that find their own niche in the sandbox than see them create a million variations of the same weapon.
I would like the magnum to stay as the starter weapon. I like the BR more as a go to pick up. Bring back the tac mag and keep both magnums as is.

BR needs to be changed. I get why they nerfed it in H5 but they went a little too far, case in point no one picks it up over the magnum, that's pretty crazy to me.

SMG doesn't need a buff in my opinion The autos in H5 are perfect as they are right now, I don't want them to be too good but not worthless.

H5 HCS settings are great. I hope they don't reintroduce autos to tournament settings.
I'm hoping they continue the trend of the AR from Overtime. I like the idea of Auto weapons having their spread tightened and headshot bonuses applied. This makes them skillful weapons that are competitively capable. Weapons that require good tracking and precision rather than just spray and pray weapons like they used to be. So I think, decreasing aim assist and magnetism for auto weapons, while tightening spread, increasing damage and adding headshot bonuses is s good idea. This would both raise the skill ceiling and skill floor of automatics while keeping them balanced.

I feel like the AR can be balanced around the BR and both can be similarly skilled weapons that reward good aim. Me personally, I've always been better at tracking then flicking shots and I love it when precision auto weapons are viable.
I would like the magnum to stay as the starter weapon. I like the BR more as a go to pick up. Bring back the tac mag and keep both magnums as is.

BR needs to be changed. I get why they nerfed it in H5 but they went a little too far, case in point no one picks it up over the magnum, that's pretty crazy to me.

SMG doesn't need a buff in my opinion The autos in H5 are perfect as they are right now, I don't want them to be too good but not worthless.

H5 HCS settings are great. I hope they don't reintroduce autos to tournament settings.
So when talking about range for all the precision weapons and ranges this is how I think the UNSC should rank from closest to furthest.
  1. M6D Pistol
  2. Battle Rifle
  3. DMR
  4. Sniper Rifle
For the covenant I like the idea that each weapon has a different type of trait to it.
  • Needler Rifle needs to make a comeback
  • Focus Rifle has that continuous beam
  • Covenant Carbine could be a Rifle with substantial bullet magnetism to simulate the explosive rounds detonating on near misses.
  • Beam Rifle should have anti vehicle characteristics that of the UNSC Sniper Rifle. (it really has more energy when you calculate the forces).
Promethean weapons right now are so close to the UNSC weapon that I think the whole pool needs a faction overhaul on the mechanics, maybe shared ammo or a heat system. But anyways there is only 2 precision weapons. Light Rifle and Binary Rifle. HEck have them all share the same hardlight energy pool might make them feel more alien and less conventional.

Then there is also the very controversial proposal I made for flood like weapons. Some sort of tentacle rifle that can grab players and throw them. Sounds like fun.
I would like the magnum to stay as the starter weapon. I like the BR more as a go to pick up. Bring back the tac mag and keep both magnums as is.

BR needs to be changed. I get why they nerfed it in H5 but they went a little too far, case in point no one picks it up over the magnum, that's pretty crazy to me.

SMG doesn't need a buff in my opinion The autos in H5 are perfect as they are right now, I don't want them to be too good but not worthless.

H5 HCS settings are great. I hope they don't reintroduce autos to tournament settings.
So when talking about range for all the precision weapons and ranges this is how I think the UNSC should rank from closest to furthest.
  1. M6D Pistol
  2. Battle Rifle
  3. DMR
  4. Sniper Rifle
For the covenant I like the idea that each weapon has a different type of trait to it.
  • Needler Rifle needs to make a comeback
  • Focus Rifle has that continuous beam
  • Covenant Carbine could be a Rifle with substantial bullet magnetism to simulate the explosive rounds detonating on near misses.
  • Beam Rifle should have anti vehicle characteristics that of the UNSC Sniper Rifle. (it really has more energy when you calculate the forces).
Promethean weapons right now are so close to the UNSC weapon that I think the whole pool needs a faction overhaul on the mechanics, maybe shared ammo or a heat system. But anyways there is only 2 precision weapons. Light Rifle and Binary Rifle. HEck have them all share the same hardlight energy pool might make them feel more alien and less conventional.

Then there is also the very controversial proposal I made for flood like weapons. Some sort of tentacle rifle that can grab players and throw them. Sounds like fun.
Oh baby do I ever want Flood weapons, that would be the coolest.
I would like the magnum to stay as the starter weapon. I like the BR more as a go to pick up. Bring back the tac mag and keep both magnums as is.

BR needs to be changed. I get why they nerfed it in H5 but they went a little too far, case in point no one picks it up over the magnum, that's pretty crazy to me.

SMG doesn't need a buff in my opinion The autos in H5 are perfect as they are right now, I don't want them to be too good but not worthless.

H5 HCS settings are great. I hope they don't reintroduce autos to tournament settings.
So when talking about range for all the precision weapons and ranges this is how I think the UNSC should rank from closest to furthest.
  1. M6D Pistol
  2. Battle Rifle
  3. DMR
  4. Sniper Rifle
For the covenant I like the idea that each weapon has a different type of trait to it.
  • Needler Rifle needs to make a comeback
  • Focus Rifle has that continuous beam
  • Covenant Carbine could be a Rifle with substantial bullet magnetism to simulate the explosive rounds detonating on near misses.
  • Beam Rifle should have anti vehicle characteristics that of the UNSC Sniper Rifle. (it really has more energy when you calculate the forces).
Promethean weapons right now are so close to the UNSC weapon that I think the whole pool needs a faction overhaul on the mechanics, maybe shared ammo or a heat system. But anyways there is only 2 precision weapons. Light Rifle and Binary Rifle. HEck have them all share the same hardlight energy pool might make them feel more alien and less conventional.

Then there is also the very controversial proposal I made for flood like weapons. Some sort of tentacle rifle that can grab players and throw them. Sounds like fun.
Oh baby do I ever want Flood weapons, that would be the coolest.
Flood-like weapons, after much discussion in the thread, even I have came to the common consensus that the flood don't use weapons. However a new faction such as the Primordials (lead by the big daddy the Primordial himself) could enter the stage that look like the flood and have similar characteristics much like the Prometheans did for the Forerunners. They will look similar to flood and infect other sentient species turning them into combat forms much like the flood but have different motivations.
tsassi wrote:
I have some fresh ideas for Magnums, really carving out their distinct roles. 3 Magnums: Standard, Tactical, and Gunfighter. That doesn't include the H1, thats in as well.
How about if there was just one Magnum?
If there was just one id go with the new husky build 4 shot design. Or the 6 shot gunfighter mag with speedboost. A large sandbox is a strength though i think.
A large sandbox is redundant. In a game where all people spawn with the same weapons, there's no point in having multiple nearly identical weapons. Furthermore, in Halo where fire rate and damage per bullet are the only things separating precision weapons from each other and it takes upwards from three shots to kill a player, there is even less variation in how those weapons function in gameplay.

I'd personally rather see Halo Infinite have the minimal viable weapon sandbox, where everything that doesn't need to be in the game isn't, and the role of each weapon is carefully thought out. I'd rather see 343i give some existing weapons desperately needed unique behavior and try to come up with new ones that find their own niche in the sandbox than see them create a million variations of the same weapon.
Hoping someone can explain this a little further. Why would multiple variations of the same weapon be bad? I play very little warzone or super fiesta but when I do it’s fun to use those weapon variants and I think those modes would get stale faster without them.

In more competitive modes I understand having only one of those variants on a particular map as a pick up weapon ( don’t need 3 magnum pick ups with magnum starts in a slayer match), but that doesn’t mean they should not be in the game altogether. Additionally, based on the map, a particular variant of a weapon may be necessary to have balance in the sand box of weapons on that map. For example, maybe a certain variant of the magnum proves to be too effective when reviewing data so they update the map with a different variant to balance out how a magnum should perform on that map.

Personally, I would also prefer them to come up with cool and unique weapons that are new, but also keep in the old weapon variants too (assuming they work well with the rest of infinite).
tsassi wrote:
I have some fresh ideas for Magnums, really carving out their distinct roles. 3 Magnums: Standard, Tactical, and Gunfighter. That doesn't include the H1, thats in as well.
How about if there was just one Magnum?
Hoping someone can explain this a little further. Why would multiple variations of the same weapon be bad? I play very little warzone or super fiesta but when I do it’s fun to use those weapon variants and I think those modes would get stale faster without them.

In more competitive modes I understand having only one of those variants on a particular map as a pick up weapon ( don’t need 3 magnum pick ups with magnum starts in a slayer match), but that doesn’t mean they should not be in the game altogether. Additionally, based on the map, a particular variant of a weapon may be necessary to have balance in the sand box of weapons on that map. For example, maybe a certain variant of the magnum proves to be too effective when reviewing data so they update the map with a different variant to balance out how a magnum should perform on that map.

Personally, I would also prefer them to come up with cool and unique weapons that are new, but also keep in the old weapon variants too (assuming they work well with the rest of infinite)
A large sandbox full of variants or covenant/promethean clones of UNSC weapons (carbine, spiker, beam rifle, etc) is bad because they don't bring anything new or unique to the table, and their purpose in the sandbox can overlap with the purposes of other weapons. In every halo you spawn with a precision weapon for killing enemies at most ranges, and an automatic weapon that can be more reliable at close range than the precision weapon is. While playing you will find other weapons, problem is most of these other weapons do the same thing that your current weapons already do, so there is no reason to pick those weapons up if you are trying to win. This is the main reason why you will see few people use the carbine, plasma rifle, or spiker in halo 3.

The only halo game that got the closest to balance is halo ce. Yes it has less weapons than every other halo, but because of this each weapon except the needler has a roll in the game outside of just being cool.

For campaign (legendary difficulty) you have your pistol for midrange combat and to easily kill hunters, Assault rifle for slaying grunts, jackals, and unshielded elites up close, and is also good against banshees if you don't have rockets or anything else that is better at taking them down. The Shotgun is the best weapon next to explosives at killing flood, and is also good a killing unshielded elites. The sniper is good at killing enemies at long range, and can also be good at closer ranges if you have good aim, it can't damage flood though. The rocket launcher is great for instant add control and taking down vehicles, but it's ammo can be hard to find.

Then you have the covenant weapons, the plasma pistol, rifle, and needler which have their place in the game as well (don't bother picking up the needler in multiplayer though). That's a total of 8 guns, and only one of those are completely useless in multiplayer only. Halo 2 has 14 guns and most of them aren't worth picking up, same with halo 3 which has 22.
Hoping someone can explain this a little further. Why would multiple variations of the same weapon be bad? I play very little warzone or super fiesta but when I do it’s fun to use those weapon variants and I think those modes would get stale faster without them.

In more competitive modes I understand having only one of those variants on a particular map as a pick up weapon ( don’t need 3 magnum pick ups with magnum starts in a slayer match), but that doesn’t mean they should not be in the game altogether. Additionally, based on the map, a particular variant of a weapon may be necessary to have balance in the sand box of weapons on that map. For example, maybe a certain variant of the magnum proves to be too effective when reviewing data so they update the map with a different variant to balance out how a magnum should perform on that map.

Personally, I would also prefer them to come up with cool and unique weapons that are new, but also keep in the old weapon variants too (assuming they work well with the rest of infinite).
I can't say it's bad, just redundant. Having weapons with overlapping roles don't make the sandbox any more interesting. It doesn't introduce anything new to learn, it doesn't create any new gameplay scenarios. It's just filler.

I can be sympathetic towards weapons that at least serve a meaningful purpose in the narrative even if they don't add anything to gameplay. For example, the Covenant obviously needs its own set of weapons, and this set needs to be reasonably varied to seem plausible, in which case it's understandable that some will have overlapping roles and behaviors with human weapons (because weapon design is hard). However, I see no reason why there should exist a billion different Magnum variants, for example.

Ultimately, the less redundant weapons there are in the sandbox, the clearer it is how the sandbox should be balanced, and the more focus can be put on getting the core sandbox right. I also believe that this design of counterparts and variants is indicative of a wrong mindset regarding weapon balance where power is feared and creativity is hampered. Just as a simple example, if you want a large weapon sandbox where every weapon is viable, you will never give the player a three-shot-kill precision weapon at spawn, because that makes all your four- and five-shot-kill precision weapons obsolete.