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What's the point of winning anymore?

OP StrwbrryWake

With the progression system tied to battle pass and battle pass progression tied to challenges, the game is not designed to incentivize winning. It's designed around completing challenges and earning cosmetics which results in 343i padding their wallets and gameplay that is focused on completing challenges, not winning matches. This negatively impacts the gameplay experience when you have teammates that don't want to win, they just want to go for sticks or whatever the challenge may be.

Reach had a great progression system that tied in match performance bonuses and earned cosmetics. Not sure why this wasn't explored and expanded upon instead of copy pasting the tired battle pass system that shows up in every game these days...
I tend to have more fun when I win and less fun when I lose.
Winning is the incentive to win for me. I'm not all that concerned about progression in a social Playlist but maybe thats just me.
I get the sentiment, but at least as it's been described and show so far, the majority of the challenges that you'll earn are very basic, and don't make people stray far from regular play. i.e., for daily challenges (that reset multiple times a day if you complete them) "Play 3 games" or "Win 2 games of slayer," etc.
And for weekly, still very simple, like "Kill 3 spartans with melee" or "capture 5 zones." ((And even if you get one like "Sitck 2 spartans" or "get 3 kills with the S7 Sniper," they've said that they intentionally set it up so that everyone has different weekly challenges from a really big pool of possible ones...no more setting up everyone to bum rush the same thing anymore.

So at least in terms of de-incentivizing winning, that doesn't look like it will be much of a concern.

Where I may agree with your sentiment, is why don't they do something small like give 20 xp for completing a game (without quitting), and like 40 xp for winning. Currently, it does feel a little lame to play really hard and fight for a close win, and get zero xp after the match, just because you still need one more game to complete your daily of "Play 3 games." I wish they'd say more clearly why they don't want to do this, as it seems like a very easy and player-friendly thing to do, even obvious perhaps.

But at the least, there will be ranked modes, where wins matter more than any challenge does, and gets tracked regardless of any of that.

(This is all assuming I missed something in one of their posts explaining that there will be a progression system, separate from the battle pass, that tracks a general rank (something to show total playtime/time invested in the game.)
Reach had a great progression system that tied in match performance bonuses and earned cosmetics. Not sure why this wasn't explored and expanded upon instead of copy pasting the tired battle pass system that shows up in every game these days...
I thought Reach's system was awful. It promoted checkpoint exploiting in campaign. Not to mention the daily cap.

This system is unique to most things out on the market and I admire them trying to freshen it up with something different than what already exists. I think it is better.

Love how I am encouraged to try different modes or think about playing slightly different. It's not like they're asking me to touch all 4 corners of the map without dying and getting two assassinations as I go. It's asking me to play 1 game of Oddball or get 2 kills with X weapon. It's hardly making me play differently. If you think this will make me lose more games, you couldn't be more wrong.

But there's also something inherently wrong with putting ultimate importance on winning a game of "social". Shouldn't the objective be for everyone to have as much fun as possible? Games didn't use to have these systems in place and competition was also still very alive and well. It's in most people's nature to want to win. Then you have the ranked arena where winning really is the ultimate goal and everything is on the line.
I get the sentiment, but at least as it's been described and show so far, the majority of the challenges that you'll earn are very basic, and don't make people stray far from regular play. i.e., for daily challenges (that reset multiple times a day if you complete them) "Play 3 games" or "Win 2 games of slayer," etc.
And for weekly, still very simple, like "Kill 3 spartans with melee" or "capture 5 zones." ((And even if you get one like "Sitck 2 spartans" or "get 3 kills with the S7 Sniper," they've said that they intentionally set it up so that everyone has different weekly challenges from a really big pool of possible ones...no more setting up everyone to bum rush the same thing anymore.

So at least in terms of de-incentivizing winning, that doesn't look like it will be much of a concern.

Where I may agree with your sentiment, is why don't they do something small like give 20 xp for completing a game (without quitting), and like 40 xp for winning. Currently, it does feel a little lame to play really hard and fight for a close win, and get zero xp after the match, just because you still need one more game to complete your daily of "Play 3 games." I wish they'd say more clearly why they don't want to do this, as it seems like a very easy and player-friendly thing to do, even obvious perhaps.

But at the least, there will be ranked modes, where wins matter more than any challenge does, and gets tracked regardless of any of that.

(This is all assuming I missed something in one of their posts explaining that there will be a progression system, separate from the battle pass, that tracks a general rank (something to show total playtime/time invested in the game.)
Most likely the reason they're not giving per match xp is to slow down grinders from no lifing the battle pass as well as afkers earning xp over night with rubber bands on their controllers. To gain xp you have to actively be doing something.
Most likely the reason they're not giving per match xp is to slow down grinders from no lifing the battle pass as well as afkers earning xp over night with rubber bands on their controllers. To gain xp you have to actively be doing something.
This is a good point. As a system this XP gain method doesn't give any impression at all that just AFKing in a match will help them level up. Yesterday, it's gone today, I got a challenge that said to complete 15 games to get a skin + XP. I'm glad those aren't always there though.

I do think the afk issues in MCC were also a result of the legacy games not having good enough detection systems and 343i not being able to implement them. This is a new engine so what it can do should be considered independently of the MCC.
Reach had a great progression system that tied in match performance bonuses and earned cosmetics. Not sure why this wasn't explored and expanded upon...
“BECAUSE THERE’S NO MONEY IN IT!”