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Why do people think these guns are hitscan?

OP SCH 343

Almost every gun in Halo is a projectile weapon.
Thats it full stop.

Now there are a few that are hitscan in Halo 5 and Halo 4 but Halo infinite is almost exclusively projectile based weapons!

Here are the list of all the weapons I know for sure that are projectile based from me testing them myself!
Sidekick
BR
Commando
Bulldog
Heatwave
Pulse carbine
Shockwave
S7 Sniper
SPNKR
Ravager
Needler
Skewer

The only weapon I wasn't able to figure out was the AR, however I do believe this a projectile based weapon it's just that it's range isn't far enough to matter.

I've seen people in here even say that the Spartan Laser is hitscan which it actually isnt and is just a very fast projectile. As far as I know Halo is one of the few games that has these features including all projectile based weapons Friendly Fire always on and player collision always on. It's what has made Halo one of the more realistic games despite its futuristic setting. Almost all modern shooters have comprised on these features and I'm happy halo infinite isn't and is going back to its realistic roots like in Halo 3 and Reach.
I Too Think the weapons are Projectile. Because Leading shots (aiming at the tip of the nose instead of centre mass) worked better even in the Shooting range.

I also see the bullets fly into my face or miss. But I am not 100% certain. Because that could also be Lag. There is a good argument the BR and commando and sidekick are Hitscan, but the testing I'd need to do is a little more thorough than what I bothered with during the flight.

Halo 5 was definitely hitscan for every bullet and precision weapon. But Infinite, I am fairly convinced is Projectile with VERY HIGH projectile speeds. SO it's ALMOST hitscan level but still requires some level of aim offset.
Yeah the bulldog is proof of that. You have to lead your shots so much, it's a challenge in it self
I mean, if projectiles are moving so fast that you never have to lead your shots at any ranges does it really matter if they are not technically hitscan? To the average player it won't really make a difference if the weapons are true hitscan vs virtually hitscan.

This has pretty much always been the case in halo. Every halo game except for CE and 3 was called hitscan despite just having an incredibly fast projectile speed. Yet even Bungie called them hitscan.
Because you misunderstand the design purpose, visually hits-scan and realistic hit-scan.

- H2 BR bullet - 400 wu/s
- H3 BR bullet - 180 wu/s
- Reach DMR bullet - 3,000 wu/s

wu is World Unit. 3K wu/s you have no need to lead your shot. That’s what we call it’s a "hit-scan" weapon.

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/mcc-development-update-june-2020
While I do agree that a weapon moving that fast will play "more" like a hitscan weapon. We shouldn't call it that because it isn't hitscan. If it's actually hitscan then I would call it that if it's not then we shouldn't mislable a projectile weapon as hitscan even if it's extremely fast. Not only is it disingenuous but also hitscan weapons have a certain persona about them that I don't believe we should bring to Halo. For me Halo has been the defacto standard for realistic gameplay in terms of Friendly fire, player collision, and bullet travel. I know functionally some guns will be close to hitscan but they won't be the exact same. To use your example the DMR is extremely fast but you can still tell its not hitscan. I'm just trying to eliminate the rumors and post that say "some halo infinite guns are hitscan" and "hitscan weapons in infinite are op" because honestly it just look ridiculous when I see those because it makes no sense to me when that person has no idea what they are talking about.

Just the other day someone told me that the skewer was hitscan and I nearly laughed in there face because it even has marks on the reticle for bullet (spike) drop and I tested it myself and it moves slow enough you can even see it traveling in the air.

Just weird to me how some many people believe this lie about the weapons being hitscan. Maybe I'm just taking it to literally though 🤔
SCH 343 wrote:
While I do agree that a weapon moving that fast will play "more" like a hitscan weapon. We shouldn't call it that because it isn't hitscan. If it's actually hitscan then I would call it that if it's not then we shouldn't mislable a projectile weapon as hitscan even if it's extremely fast.
It's not as simple as that.

The distinction between hitscan and projectile weapons is more nuanced than discussions in the Halo community make it to be. In a sense, hitscan is a subset of projectile weapons. This is because if you set the projectile speed high enough relative to the weapon's maximum range, it becomes hitscan. Not just "like" hitscan, but completely equivalent to hitscan.

Consider how a hitscan weapon works: when the weapon is fired, a ray is cast in the direction of fire to a distance equal to the maximum range of the weapon. If this ray intersects an object, it's a hit. On the frame after, the ray exists no more.

Now, consider the Halo Reach AR which has a maximum range of 100 an a projectile speed of 3000. The original Reach runs at 30 fps. So, what happens when the AR is fired? A ray is cast in the direction of fire to distance traveled by the projectile in one frame. This happens to be 100 units, which equals the max range of the weapon. (Coincidence?) If this ray intersects an object, it's a hit. Since the max range has been reached, there is no need to continue, and on the frame after, the projectile exists no more.

Every game that has a projectile system gets a hitscan system for free. In fact, up to a certain range—the distance traveled in one time step—every weapon is hitscan. Many of the Halo Reach weapons were labeled hitscan, because on almost every map, the projectile either flies off the map, or hits something in the first frame. Some weapons in Reach are hitscan without caveats (e.g., AR, shotgun). For others (e.g., DMR, sniper rifle), Bungie knew that they'd be hitscan at ranges players would use them at 99.99% of the time. The most useful way to communicate how those weapons feel to players is to say that they're hitscan. It's not 100% accurate, but it's accurate enough, gets the point across, and doesn't confuse people. More often than not in communication, that is all you need.
It felt like a mix between the two as far as the br is concerned.
You can VERY clearly tell the weapons aren't hitscan if you use your eyeballs because you can actually see the projectiles traveling on screen. As far as I could tell, every round on every weapon is a tracer round. It's also not hard to tell the BR isn't hitscan when you try to hit a long range target on MKB - where the magnetism of a controller in RRR (while scoped) would guarantee all 3 shots hit, Mouse will miss 1 or 2 of the bullets. I actually think the BR needs to be adjusted for PC for that reason, it feels really inconsistent.
tsassi wrote:
SCH 343 wrote:
While I do agree that a weapon moving that fast will play "more" like a hitscan weapon. We shouldn't call it that because it isn't hitscan. If it's actually hitscan then I would call it that if it's not then we shouldn't mislable a projectile weapon as hitscan even if it's extremely fast.
It's not as simple as that.

The distinction between hitscan and projectile weapons is more nuanced than discussions in the Halo community make it to be. In a sense, hitscan is a subset of projectile weapons. This is because if you set the projectile speed high enough relative to the weapon's maximum range, it becomes hitscan. Not just "like" hitscan, but completely equivalent to hitscan.

Consider how a hitscan weapon works: when the weapon is fired, a ray is cast in the direction of fire to a distance equal to the maximum range of the weapon. If this ray intersects an object, it's a hit. On the frame after, the ray exists no more.

Now, consider the Halo Reach AR which has a maximum range of 100 an a projectile speed of 3000. The original Reach runs at 30 fps. So, what happens when the AR is fired? A ray is cast in the direction of fire to distance traveled by the projectile in one frame. This happens to be 100 units, which equals the max range of the weapon. (Coincidence?) If this ray intersects an object, it's a hit. Since the max range has been reached, there is no need to continue, and on the frame after, the projectile exists no more.

Every game that has a projectile system gets a hitscan system for free. In fact, up to a certain range—the distance traveled in one time step—every weapon is hitscan. Many of the Halo Reach weapons were labeled hitscan, because on almost every map, the projectile either flies off the map, or hits something in the first frame. Some weapons in Reach are hitscan without caveats (e.g., AR, shotgun). For others (e.g., DMR, sniper rifle), Bungie knew that they'd be hitscan at ranges players would use them at 99.99% of the time. The most useful way to communicate how those weapons feel to players is to say that they're hitscan. It's not 100% accurate, but it's accurate enough, gets the point across, and doesn't confuse people. More often than not in communication, that is all you need.
Yeah I agree a projectile weapon can act identical to a hitscan in the example you gave. However with modern hardware the example you gave won't always act hitscan and there is still an actual projectile leaving the weapon. Using counter strike as an example when the game first launched if there was a very fast projectile like in reach it would act like a hitscan because of lower frame rates but if you used that same weapon today with a system that plays the game at 600fps it would behave a bit more like a projectile although still very fast. A hitscan weapon will always be instant travel no matter what you do with the game.

I guess I just don't classify any weapon that actually launches a projectile as a hitscan weapon. To me I grew up with hitscan chaingunners and projectile imps in doom so to me that's how I will always classify those 2 types of weapon systems. In other games with true actual hitscan it is crazy fast and noticeable to me like in titanfall 2 which has both styles and you can very much tell them apart same as in halo I can tell that the BR isn't the exact same as a Hitscan weapon. I definitely think the bullet velocity is somewhere between reach and 3 so maybe that's why people are unaware of the difference because it's not as noticeable as it was in 3.
tsassi wrote:
SCH 343 wrote:
While I do agree that a weapon moving that fast will play "more" like a hitscan weapon. We shouldn't call it that because it isn't hitscan. If it's actually hitscan then I would call it that if it's not then we shouldn't mislable a projectile weapon as hitscan even if it's extremely fast.
It's not as simple as that.

The distinction between hitscan and projectile weapons is more nuanced than discussions in the Halo community make it to be. In a sense, hitscan is a subset of projectile weapons. This is because if you set the projectile speed high enough relative to the weapon's maximum range, it becomes hitscan. Not just "like" hitscan, but completely equivalent to hitscan.

Consider how a hitscan weapon works: when the weapon is fired, a ray is cast in the direction of fire to a distance equal to the maximum range of the weapon. If this ray intersects an object, it's a hit. On the frame after, the ray exists no more.

Now, consider the Halo Reach AR which has a maximum range of 100 an a projectile speed of 3000. The original Reach runs at 30 fps. So, what happens when the AR is fired? A ray is cast in the direction of fire to distance traveled by the projectile in one frame. This happens to be 100 units, which equals the max range of the weapon. (Coincidence?) If this ray intersects an object, it's a hit. Since the max range has been reached, there is no need to continue, and on the frame after, the projectile exists no more.

Every game that has a projectile system gets a hitscan system for free. In fact, up to a certain range—the distance traveled in one time step—every weapon is hitscan. Many of the Halo Reach weapons were labeled hitscan, because on almost every map, the projectile either flies off the map, or hits something in the first frame. Some weapons in Reach are hitscan without caveats (e.g., AR, shotgun). For others (e.g., DMR, sniper rifle), Bungie knew that they'd be hitscan at ranges players would use them at 99.99% of the time. The most useful way to communicate how those weapons feel to players is to say that they're hitscan. It's not 100% accurate, but it's accurate enough, gets the point across, and doesn't confuse people. More often than not in communication, that is all you need.
I just wanted to say how much I appreciate the depth and insight you put into your posts! Thank you for this explanation - I learned more about my favorite games today. :)